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What exactly constitutes something offensive? If one person takes offense to something, will that thing be deleted, no matter the merits of the argument?
Since this thread is entirely dedicated to this topic, some may find offense to the content, so I suggest they read some other thread, instead of flagging this thread and deleting a mature discussion.
First off, why can't I say something is "gay" or "retarded"? The vast majority of people commonly use it now adays, I'll be using some of those terms at a certain event, I'm sure (so you may be offended by me in person, yay you!).
If that means someone gets to use my name as a stand-in for dumb, idiotic, or retarded, then go ahead, I won't be offended as long as I get to use the words that I want to.
Homosexuals are trying to overcome years of prejudice. Using 'gay' as a pejorative undermines that effort. I am willing to bet you do not throw the N word around lightly.
Stop being such a jared.
Woah man, that's crossing the line. You don't just call someone a jared in civil conversation. No mater how much they may deserve it.
The vast majority of people commonly use it now adays…
So because all the other lemmings are jumping off the bridge… That just is not a good enough argument.
What exactly constitutes something offensive? If one person takes offense to something, will that thing be deleted, no matter the merits of the argument?
Since this thread is entirely dedicated to this topic, some may find offense to the content, so I suggest they read some other thread, instead of flagging this thread and deleting a mature discussion.
First off, why can't I say something is "gay" or "retarded"? The vast majority of people commonly use it now adays, I'll be using some of those terms at a certain event, I'm sure (so you may be offended by me in person, yay you!).
If that means someone gets to use my name as a stand-in for dumb, idiotic, or retarded, then go ahead, I won't be offended as long as I get to use the words that I want to.
If this is truly an adult topic here, I will post my thoughts.
First, the two word you have used have baggage with them, if you are using them as a label for a person or an idea, then yes they are very, very rude. If they had been used at me, I would become rather hostile to the person using them at me, regardless of my ties to this person. Simply because they (or other words or names) are common terms for some groups, doesn't make them polite or respectful to others. My common guide rule for politness is as follows, the person you are addressing is two feet taller than I, 200 lbs heavier, can benchpress a buick and is armed with an Ak-47. If my remarks offend them, they will let me know about it very quickly. Thats just my 2 coppers, however.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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First off, why can't I say something is "gay" or "retarded"? The vast majority of people commonly use it now adays, I'll be using some of those terms at a certain event, I'm sure (so you may be offended by me in person, yay you!).
I seldom hear people use either of these except when I'm visiting high schools. Maybe I just circulate in the right crowd.
so, we can't make jokes about blondes? or lawyers?
In my opinion, you have to gauge your audience. If unfamiliar or they didn't come and pay to see you be politically incorrect, then at least have a little bit of decorum. Otherwise, I'm the believer that there's nothing that's taboo that can't be parodied.
I seldom hear people use either of these except when I'm visiting high schools. Maybe I just circulate in the right crowd.
I think certain celebs use those terms, so, meh.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Further on-point quotes from The Office:
Michael Scott: I need to know who else is gay. I don't want to offend anyone else.
Dwight Schrute: You could assume everyone is, and not say anything offensive.
Michael Scott: Yeah. I'm sure everyone would appreciate me treating them like they were gay.
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Homosexuals are trying to overcome years of prejudice. Using 'gay' as a pejorative undermines that effort. I am willing to bet you do not throw the N word around lightly.
Of course, that isn't a perfect example, because "gay", in and of itself, is not a pejorative, whereas the "N word" is.
The reason I made the tongue-in-cheek comment I did about "that's so Jared" is because taking a name or label that applies to a person or a group of people and using it for anything we find annoying or stupid is plain rude. It explicitly suggests that there is something about gay people which is so stupid that "gay" and "stupid" can be used interchangeably. That is how that usage of the term arose, and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. There are plenty of words one can use that do not identify a specific group of people as epitomizing that which is stupid.
Does that mean that everyone who uses "gay" or "retarded" for that which they find stupid is making a conscious decision to single out gay or retarded people? Of course not. In general, it just means they didn't give a lot of thought to what they were saying (at least, not enough to find a more descriptive and appropriate word). Am I going to call someone out every time I see it? No, I have better things to worry about (I don't even flag posts that do it, because said posts usually aren't even worth that much effort). But does it make me think less of the person and the content of their speech and/or posts? ...
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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so, we can't make jokes about blondes? or lawyers?
In my opinion, you have to gauge your audience. If unfamiliar or they didn't come and pay to see you be politically incorrect, then at least have a little bit of decorum. Otherwise, I'm the believer that there's nothing that's taboo that can't be parodied.
I don't think 'parody' is the word you're looking for.
I, for one, am not saying he can not use those words. I would be the last to do that. I do, however, believe he should be aware that using those words speaks on his character.
I have used 'gay' negatively. I have used the N word. I have even told blonde jokes. I do try to only 'go there' in company that knows me well enough to know my true feelings for blonde, homosexual African Americans.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I, for one, am not saying he can not use those words. I would be the last to do that. I do, however, believe he should be aware that using those words speaks on his character.
I have used 'gay' negatively. I have used the N word. I have even told blonde jokes. I do try to only 'go there' in company that knows me well enough to know my true feelings for blonde, homosexual African Americans.
Setting your fetishes aside for a moment, ... this isn't that company.
Of course, that isn't a perfect example, because "gay", in and of itself, is not a pejorative, whereas the "N word" is.
I am not sure I follow your point, CH. I agree that gay and the N word are not a perfect analogy. However, when was the last time you heard gay used for it's older meaning? In my experience, it is pretty much universally used as a pejorative.
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Of course, that isn't a perfect example, because "gay", in and of itself, is not a pejorative, whereas the "N word" is.I am not sure I follow your point, CH. I agree that gay and the N word are not a perfect analogy. However, when was the last time you heard gay used for it's older meaning? In my experience, it is pretty much universally used as a pejorative.
Erm. A pejorative is a word that is offensive or insulting.
Calling a gay person gay is not offensive. Gay is a pejorative when it's applied to things other than gay people.
Calling an African American person by the N word is clearly offensive, and is a pejorative in any context.
Edit: Edited for clarity.
Setting your fetishes aside for a moment, ... this isn't that company.
Ah, come on! Give me some love.
First of all there are people on the boards that are not from the United States and these words may be far more insulting in their country than yours.
Because words such as retard and spaz hit close to home for those people that have disabilities or have loved ones and friends with disabilities. They are insulting to a person that did not choose to suffer through something terrible.
Using gay in the negative is reinforcing stereotypes it empowers people who commit acts of violence against gay members of our community.
The N word dehumanises a person it signifies they are fit for nothing but slavery or subjugation.
I said, 'no fetishes'!Setting your fetishes aside for a moment, ... this isn't that company.Ah, come on! Give me some love.
I for one think it is okay to use the words ‘gay’ and ‘retarded’ when describing something so long as they are used in the proper context. If your guy friend says ‘I love you man’ and gives you a hug and you say ‘That’s gay dude.’ That’s an acceptable use of the term. Your friend probably didn’t mean anything homosexual by it, but the act of two unrelated men embracing could be perceived as a homosexual act, so in my opinion joking that the act is ‘gay’ is alright. Is it ‘PC’? Not at all, but at least (in my opinion) you’re using the word correctly. On the flip side if a police officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket and you say ‘that’s gay’ then you are an idiot. There’s nothing gay about a cop pulling you over, or your parents grounding you, or you getting a bad grade on a test… unless of course the cop/your parents/your teacher are wearing hot pants at the time, but that’s another topic all together.
Same deal with the word ‘retarded.’ If you say someone is acting retarded because they did something really stupid that that’s okay in my book because you mean they are acting like someone of a diminished mental capacity. That’s what the word means. Might it offend people? Probably, but some people will get offended no mater what you do. However if, like in the ‘gay’ examples above you are just using the word to mean ‘bad’ then it is you who are retarded.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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As far as insults go, I'll insult you to your face and I can take insults in return...or a punch in the face, for that matter. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
If you don't want to treat people differently behind their backs than to their faces, why not just cut the crap entirely. I try not to use insulting terms behind people's backs or to their faces. Doing otherwise is hypocritical or rude.
That's idiotic.I for one think it is okay to use the words ‘gay’ and ‘retarded’ when describing something so long as they are used in the proper context. If your guy friend says ‘I love you man’ and gives you a hug and you say ‘That’s gay dude.’ That’s an acceptable use of the term. Your friend probably didn’t mean anything homosexual by it, but the act of two unrelated men embracing could be perceived as a homosexual act, so in my opinion joking that the act is ‘gay’ is alright. Is it ‘PC’? Not at all, but at least (in my opinion) you’re using the word correctly. On the flip side if a police officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket and you say ‘that’s gay’ then you are an idiot. There’s nothing gay about a cop pulling you over, or your parents grounding you, or you getting a bad grade on a test… unless of course the cop/your parents/your teacher are wearing hot pants at the time, but that’s another topic all together.
Same deal with the word ‘retarded.’ If you say someone is acting retarded because they did something really stupid that that’s okay in my book because you mean they are acting like someone of a diminished mental capacity. That’s what the word means. Might it offend people? Probably, but some people will get offended no mater what you do. However if, like in the ‘gay’ examples above you are just using the word to mean ‘bad’ then it is you who are retarded.
I don’t agree with your opinion sir, but I’ll defend to the death your right to voice it.
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First of all there are people on the boards that are not from the United States on the boards and these words may be far more insulting in their country than yours.
Because words such as retard and spaz hit close to home for those people that have disabilities or have loved ones and friends with disabilities. They are insulting to a person that did not choose to suffer through something terrible.
Using gay in the negative is reinforcing stereotypes it empowers people who commit acts of violence against gay members of our community.
The N word dehumanises a person it signifies they are fit for nothing but slavery or subjugation.
If you wish to be insulted, then you will be.
I'm sure the vast majority of young people these days calling people gay or retarded are trying to purposefully insult someone who is either gay or retarded.
I'm pretty sure if the person was in fact, gay or retarded and it was known by the person insulting them they would find far worse names to call them.
here maybe this will help you understand my position.
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Well, only if the joke is really, really funny and no black people are around to hear it.So it is o.k. to be insulting if
A ) It is funny
B ) The people's who expense you are having your fun with are not around to point out how insensitive it is
No, I'm not saying it's okay to be insulting, I'm saying I'm human. Everyone's a little bit racist.
And at least I admit it, instead of putting on a facade and being self-righteous on a message board.
I think most people are a bit uncomfortable around people that are different from them. They just won't admit it when that person is around, they don't want to hurt their feelings.
It's called being passive agressive, and it causes more hurt in this world than telling someone why you don't like them.
As far as insults go, I'll insult you to your face and I can take insults in return...or a punch in the face, for that matter. I wouldn't recommend it, though.
I believe that gays should be able to have civil unions and be treated equally by the government, as should blacks and asians and whatever other crazy new races we decide to reduce to second class citizens.
But I think being PC hurts way way worse. It's insincere and stifles free speech.
I think we ought to be aspiring to higher than this. Saying "everyone has prejudices" is rationalizing. Instead we ought to identify our prejudices and try to improve upon them and broaden our horizons. I would personally rather question my assumptions than shrug and say "they are what they are".
At least we can still call people munchkins.
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Homosexuals are trying to overcome years of prejudice. Using 'gay' as a pejorative undermines that effort. I am willing to bet you do not throw the N word around lightly.Well, only if the joke is really, really funny and no black people are around to hear it.Now.
This
Is
Over
Child.
You are now racicst and rude.
Shame.
I had hoped for a civil talk.
Seconded. I'm sick of having my posts on the other thread (asking for an explanation) being removed simply because they pertain to someone else's juvenile behavior.
Seriously, J, are you in middle school?
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Since 'gay,' and 'lame' and 'retarded' are just slang for 'stupid' or 'foolish' why not just call things that you think are stupid, stupid?
That way only people who self-identify as stupid or fools get offended. :)
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My weakness is using the word 'gyp' (sometimes spelled 'jip') to mean screwed out of something. I don't know any Romani (other than my mom), so I'm not sure if I'm offending anyone, but I realize that it's about as appropriate as using 'Jew' as a verb. (As in, 'My boss Jewed me out of my bonus.')
Other dubious terms that snuck into my vocabulary include 'jerry-rigged' (not to be confused with 'jury-rigged') and 'mickey-rigged' (I've never used the southern version, 'ni****-rigged,' which was common where I grew up.), which are WWI-era slurs towards 'Jerries' and 'Micks,' respectively, and 'Chinese fire drill' to refer to screw-ups where a bunch of co-workers are running around making a problem worse while trying to fix it.
Luckily, Paizo turned Goblins into the perfect race for that last one, and even my non-D&D playing friends now say 'Goblin fire drill.'
'Goblin-rigged' doesn't flow as well to my ear, although the race seems perfectly suited for being associated with shoddy or cheap construction and make-shift cast-off materials pressed into service.
You may be on to something, Set. I can see lots of D&D races being used.
That's so elf.
I don't think 'parody' is the word you're looking for.so, we can't make jokes about blondes? or lawyers?
In my opinion, you have to gauge your audience. If unfamiliar or they didn't come and pay to see you be politically incorrect, then at least have a little bit of decorum. Otherwise, I'm the believer that there's nothing that's taboo that can't be parodied.
Quit being bullheaded.
:P
Quit being bullheaded.
:P
Dude, you are darkening my mood.
Dude, you are darkening my mood.Quit being bullheaded.
:P
*tosses chewtoy*
Go get it!
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I'm not offended by anything anyone says, so why are you?
Well I had a brother in a wheelchair who had to put up with being called a retard for 4 years and being told that my brother is a retard because he is in a wheelchair. So yes I find the use of the word retard being thrown about very offensive
My weakness is using the word 'gyp' (sometimes spelled 'jip') to mean screwed out of something. I don't know any Romani (other than my mom), so I'm not sure if I'm offending anyone, but I realize that it's about as appropriate as using 'Jew' as a verb. (As in, 'My boss Jewed me out of my bonus.')
Yeah, I didn't even realize about this one until I was like 18. It's always just been apart of the vocabulary (not even sure where I picked it up), never knew it was a racial slur. You know another one? Indian giver, used that one when I was younger too. The funny thing is I recently wanted to use it in a conversation at work because that is the term I’ve got in my head for someone who gives something as a gift and then takes it back later. I caught myself before I said it, but I paused for a long moment before I finally said “okay, is there a non racist way to say I don’t want to be someone who gives something as a gift and then later takes it back. “One of my co-workers immediately said “Indian giver!” immediately followed by “Oh…” We weren’t able to think of another way to describe it out side of explaining the whole thing.
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We'll, if juvenile behavior is considered saying something is "gay" or "retarded", then you got me, man. Calling me a middle schooler is soo juvenile of you. What are you, in elementary school?
I'm not offended by anything anyone says, so why are you?
There's a distinct difference between being offended and being insulted.
That one was out of line on my part, and I apologize. That said, I really have to say that you have to re-evaluate your way of dealing with other people.
Hey Courtfool and a couple of others, the words f&! or f~~&#~ are homosexual pejoratives. The word gay is commonly used and is an acceptable term amongst homosexuals as a term refering to ones personal sexual preferences. When the word gay is used this way it is generally not considered a pejorative. Unfortunately many heterosexuals use gay as a pejorative where it is either meant to mean stupid, or as an insult against other heterosexuals.
For the record not trying to offend anyone, and Courtfool keep the funny rolling your posts always make laugh. :)