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The description of the Dervish Dance feat states that "you cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off-hand".
In a similar way, the Duelist's Precise Strike ability states that "When making a precise strike, a duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield."
But what about an unarmed attack with the free hand ?
And what about a touch attack with the free hand ?
What about claws for that matter ?
Also, concerning the Duelist's abilities, many forbid using a shield. But how does it work if the Piercing 1H-weapon you are using to attack IS a spiked shield ?
The description of the Dervish Dance feat states that "you cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off-hand".
In a similar way, the Duelist's Precise Strike ability states that "When making a precise strike, a duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield."
But what about an unarmed attack with the free hand ?
And what about a touch attack with the free hand ?
What about claws for that matter ?
Also, concerning the Duelist's abilities, many forbid using a shield. But how does it work if the Piercing 1H-weapon you are using to attack IS a spiked shield ?
My ruling would be unarmed attacks and touch attacks are ok, and since the RAW says "weapon" and not "natural weapon", I guess I'd allow claws, but the RAW specifically says "cannot ... use a shield", so I'd rule out using the spiked shield, even though it is a piercing 1handed weapon, 'cause it's also a shield, which is forbidden.
My guess about the spirit of the rule would be that they should have written something like "no attacks can be made with the off hand, nor can a shield be used".
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Unarmed attack: No! The spirit of the rule is clear: You keep your other hand out of it.
Spiked shield: No! On general principle.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
I *presume* you'd make exceptions for good character concepts. I once had a lady play a semi-Nordic cleric in my game who worshiped "the Shieldmaiden." As a result of her faith, she carried a (tower) shield, but no weapon.
I thought it was great.
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Unarmed attack: No! The spirit of the rule is clear: You keep your other hand out of it.
Do not try and bend the RAI. It is impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth : there is no RAI.
Spiked shield: No! On general principle.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
Let's see, Dextrous, Wise and Intelligent (for the Duelist part), with a spiked shield that is both Throwing and Returning. Here comes Captain Andoran :-P
Unarmed attack: No! The spirit of the rule is clear: You keep your other hand out of it.
Spiked shield: No! On general principle.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
You are so hard to disagree with, KaeYoss.
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The concept of the prestige class is that you have one hand free.
That doesn't prevent you from making unarmed strikes or claw attacks, as your hand is still empty.
It would prevent you from using a spiked shield, as your hand is not empty.
Oh SNAP! :D
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The concept of the prestige class is that you have one hand free.
That doesn't prevent you from making unarmed strikes or claw attacks, as your hand is still empty.
It would prevent you from using a spiked shield, as your hand is not empty.
I guess I was not clear in my explanation : what about using the spiked shield as your Duelist weapon (1H piercing) while your other hand is empty ?
Then you have a piercing weapon in one hand and your other hand is empty.
Then you have a piercing weapon in one hand and your other hand is empty.
Not only is that exceedingly awesome, it's just enabled my Pathfinder dork dream.
Captain Andoran indeed.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.I *presume* you'd make exceptions for good character concepts. I once had a lady play a semi-Nordic cleric in my game who worshiped "the Shieldmaiden." As a result of her faith, she carried a (tower) shield, but no weapon.
I thought it was great.
There's always exceptions. In this case, if the concept were simply brilliant AND DIDN'T TRY TO TWINK THE CHARACTER BEYOND INFINITY, I'd allow it.
You are so hard to disagree with, KaeYoss.Unarmed attack: No! The spirit of the rule is clear: You keep your other hand out of it.
Spiked shield: No! On general principle.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
What? Just because I seek out people who disagree with me and horribly kill them?
That's not even true! (Or, at least, not proven!)
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You are so hard to disagree with, KaeYoss.Unarmed attack: No! The spirit of the rule is clear: You keep your other hand out of it.
Spiked shield: No! On general principle.
I have an unwritten rule in my game: If you try to use a shield without a weapon, or two shields, your character will die a horrible death. Followed by you.
What? Just because I seek out people who disagree with me and horribly kill them?
That's not even true! (Or, at least, not proven!)
Well, it's no secret that you're (mis)using Hellknights and Her Infernal Majestrix's royal assassins for your own depraved ends -- I have friends in high places, and I know that at least two paralictors have issued formal complaints against you (I also know our beloved Majestrix was impressed by my beard dance!).
The Dervish Dance feat is from Qadira: Gateway to the East.
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Then you have a piercing weapon in one hand and your other hand is empty.
So, to clarify as I have had people say I am foolish.
If you were to go Monk 2 / Fighter 5 / Duelist++ using Two Weapon Fighting Feats, you could:
+ Use Precise Strike with your Rapier, and still attack with your Improved Unarmed
+ Use Dervish Dance to add your dexterity to your Weapon Damage.
If the character has Weapon Finesse, which is a prerequisite for Duelist, and is, also, using the Dervish Dance feat, would they add their dexterity to the dexterity they are already using to attack? Would they also add their dexterity to their damage with the Rapier .. how about with the unarmed?
Thank you for this clarification.
Then you have a piercing weapon in one hand and your other hand is empty.So, to clarify as I have had people say I am foolish.
If you were to go Monk 2 / Fighter 5 / Duelist++ using Two Weapon Fighting Feats, you could:
+ Use Precise Strike with your Rapier, and still attack with your Improved Unarmed
+ Use Dervish Dance to add your dexterity to your Weapon Damage.
If the character has Weapon Finesse, which is a prerequisite for Duelist, and is, also, using the Dervish Dance feat, would they add their dexterity to the dexterity they are already using to attack? Would they also add their dexterity to their damage with the Rapier .. how about with the unarmed?
Thank you for this clarification.
Dervish dance only works with a Scimitar.
The concept of the prestige class is that you have one hand free.
That doesn't prevent you from making unarmed strikes or claw attacks, as your hand is still empty.
It would prevent you from using a spiked shield, as your hand is not empty.
If we're going to rule based on concept then why wouldn't a DUELIST be able to use a main gauche if purely as a defensive weapon, i.e. two weapon defense feats.
No, it isn't precision damage. Why should it?
It would be significant as things like sneak attack is precision damage and you can't deal it in all situations.
The Dervish Dance feat is from Qadira: Gateway to the East.
It's from the inner sea world guide.
Well, the Magus class can cast spells with a free hand in addition to attacking with a weapon. So it seems to me that, in concept, it's perfectly alright to use your fist as well as your sword.
The Dervish Dance feat is from Qadira: Gateway to the East.It's from the inner sea world guide.
It's from both. ISW imported it from Q:GthE.
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The Dervish Dance feat is from Qadira: Gateway to the East.It's from the inner sea world guide.
If you see posts by Josh Frost, they'll mostly be from when he was a Paizo employee.
His post actually pre-dates the Inner Sea World Guide.