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Hey guys, has anyone rebuilt an Inquisitor character since APG came out? I'm wondering if there were big changes to what I saw a few months back on here, and my friend is considering playing one and wants to do lots damage.
You can pretty much just skip to the DPR of the round three version since that's is, IIRC, the bonus a level 10 Inquisitor would get. On an anecdotal level, the Inquisitor is awesome and has been tons of fun to play. A really great gish (sorta) class.
As this post is 13 pages long, i must admit i cant remember everything that has been said and build in here so far. But im courious as to what the best ranged build has proven to be. Primarily in raw DPR as this is what this thread is about.
off the top of my head i would say a ranged char. could be fighter, ranger, monk, paladin and arcane archer. So can any 1 say whats best? and if the build has already been made, write the page number of the thread.
thx
As this post is 13 pages long, i must admit i cant remember everything that has been said and build in here so far. But im courious as to what the best ranged build has proven to be. Primarily in raw DPR as this is what this thread is about.
off the top of my head i would say a ranged char. could be fighter, ranger, monk, paladin and arcane archer. So can any 1 say whats best? and if the build has already been made, write the page number of the thread.
thx
Generally Archers beat out the melee because of their ability to full attack every round without having to worry about movement.
Fighters are typically the best all around. They don't need buffs or specific targets to get their maximum damage. Paladins will edge out a fighter against evil targets. Rangers will win against favored enemies.
on a completely different note, if the people talking about the crit chances on a perfect strike weapon adept or zen archer is still listening. Just saw your posts today.
What you are looking for is as "simple" as conditional probability. You want (the probability min one dice threatens a crit) times (the probability min one dice hits given another dice threatens a crit)
maybe i can come up with a good formula tomorrow, to tired now it seems. The problem with merkatz formula and the reason its off, is that it counts a coupple dubble rolls too much. imagine rolling with 2 six sided dices and looking for dubble 6, merkatz is counting this as 2 fallouts, although it should only be one. thats the reason for difference.
Im wondering why calvin the cavalier from page 11 i think, only has his own damage calculated, and not included mount. If he was clever enough to pick a tiger with pounce, it seems like he can wreck massive carnage atop his 125 dpr when he is charging. Would also give him way more versatility, as the tiger mount at lvl 10 does around 40 dam i think as a full attack, and a bit more when charging.
so after fooling around with the barbarian i think i have come up with an extremely high full attack rutine.
Rexxar the Invulnrable Rager
Rexxar the Invulnrable Rager (Half Ork)
stats:
str 18(+8) +8
dex 12 +1
con 14 +2
int 10 +0
wis 11 +0
cha 7 -2
HP: 12 + 9d12 + 20(con) + 10(fav class) = 99
AC: 10 + 1(dex) + 9 (armor) + 2 (nat) +1 (def) = 23
Fort: +11 Reflex: +6 Will: +5 (+7 raging)
Racial: Darkvision, Intimidating, orc blood, Toothy (apg)
Feats: power attack, two wp fighting, improved 2wp fighting, dubble slice, Imp crit (falchion)
Rage powers: Elemental rage lesser, elemental rage, elemental rage greater, lesser fiend totem, reckless abandon
Items: +4 str belt (16000), Brestplate +3 (9000), amulet of natural armor +2 (4000), ring of prot +1 (2000), +3 falchion (18000), +1 armor spikes (2000), handy haversack, rope of resistance +2 (4000),
Attacks:
Falchion +16/+11 2d4 + 12(str) +9(pa) +3(wp) = 29
Armor spikes +14/+9 1d6 + 8 + 3 + 1 = 15.5
Bite +10 1d4 + 4 + 3 = 9.5
DPR: 46.95 + 9.9 = 56.86
When raging (24 rounds per day)
Attacks:
Falchion +21/+16 2d4 + 1d6 + 15(str) +9(pa) +3(wp) = 35.5
Armor spikes +19/+14 1d6 + 1d6 + 10 + 3 + 1 = 21
Bite +15 1d4 + 1d6 + 5 + 3 = 14
Gore +15 1d8 + 1d6 + 5 +3 = 16
DPR: 101.375 + 20.01 = 121.385
Atuthor notes:
when raging he has 119 hp with AC 18 (very low ac i know) but with dam red 5 he should handle some beating, atleast enough to qualify in this thread. On a side note, it can be argued that dubble slice also grants your attacks normal PA bonus, and i would indeed consider this the case, but to satisfy all the strict RAW and not RAI players, i have decided to leave it out, he will get more DPR with it ofc.
Just for kicks i also constructed how he would look at lvl 11 vs that same mob (he gains better rage and 2 more attacks), and the results combine to a whooping 169.66 DPR (vs the ac 24 mob)
Jumping in at 121 DPR, the barbarian is once again ruling the melee DPR race. If we are willing to accept his 119 hp 5 dam red and 18 ac as survivability enough.
It is .6 by my math also. The table is saying you have 11/20 numbers to use to hit so its showing as .55, but if you can hit on any number between 9 and 20 and each one is 5% then it should be .60.Yeah, if I add +1 to hit, everything works out the way I had above.
The flag values seem to work -- Power Attack works properly -- Weapon Focus works -- the +hit/+dmg values work properly. . . must be some global "off by one" error.
I don't know if I ever said thanks, but I am saying it now. I use this to check my math for "to-hit" and "damage" for high level builds. I have caught quiet a few errors on my part.
edit:I guess that should have went to Tejon. Thanks.
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so after fooling around with the barbarian i think i have come up with an extremely high full attack rutine.
Rexxar the Invulnrable Rager
** spoiler omitted **Jumping in at 121 DPR, the barbarian is once again ruling...
except you only have a 12 dex. twf and double slice require a dex 15 and imp twf needs dex 17.
raging fail
and your better off with beast totem for pounce imho
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Decided to do this for fun, after reading the APG. It occured to me that a slinger-focused halfling could pack a pretty decent punch full, and since Small characters are woefully under-represented, I thought I'd give it a go. This doesn't come very close to competing with archery-based builds, but as a ranged attacker he's got a sleight advantage over some of the melee, who must get in place before they can full attack. Anyway:
STR: 12 (+1) (14 base, -2 racial)
DEX: 22 (+6) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 item)
CON: 14 (+1) (13 base, +1 level)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 14 (+2) (12 base, +2 item)
CHA: 10 (0) (8 base, +2 racial)
HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)
Saving Throws
Fort: +12 Ref: +12 Will: +10
AC: 26 - Touch 18, Flatfooted 20, (+7 +3 chain shirt, +6 dex, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Protection, +1 size)
Attacks:
+19/19/+14 to hit for 16 (1d3+14) damage
Class Abilities:
Weapon Guard (+3 vs disarm and sunder attempts made against his sling)
Weapon Training (+2 to hit and damage with slings)
Reliable Strike (reroll attack, critical confirmation, miss chance, or damage roll as immediate action twice per day)
Mirror Move (+2 to AC against attacks made by slings)
Race Abilities:
Small (+1 hit, +1 AC, +4 Stealth, -1 CMB, -1 CMD)
20' move speed
Fearless (+2 to saving throws against fear)
Halfling Luck (+1 to all saving throws)
Keen Senses (+2 to Perception)
Warslinger (reload sling as free action, replaces Sure-Footed)
BAB:+10 CMB: +10 CMD: 27
Feats:
1HD Weapon Focus (Sling)
1F Deadly Aim
2F Point Blank Shot
3HD Precise Shot
4F Weapon Specialization (Sling)
5HD Rapid Shot
6F Iron Will
7HD Improved Iron Will
8F Greater Weapon Focus
9HD Critical Focus
10F Improved Critical
Skills:
bunch of stuff
Gear:
+3 Sling
+3 Chain Shirt
Belt of +4 Dexterity
Headband of +2 Wisdom
Cloak of Resistance +2
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Ring of Protection +1
Handy Haversack
Plus some other miscelaneous disposable stuff
Slinger Sam may be small, but that doesn't mean he can't pack a punch. With Deadly Aim, his attack routine is:
+19/19/+14 to hit for 16 (1d3+14, 19-20/x2) damage
This comes out to 2x(.8x16+.1x.95x1x16)+.55x16+.1x.75x1x16 = 38.64 damage per round average.
A +1 to hit is worth 2.49 DPR, a +1 to damage is worth 2.435 DPR, and an additional attack is worth 14.32 damage
If using a point-buy system, Slinger Sam gets some pretty major upgrades, because the -2 strength really hurts with the elite array. It's worth noting that Slinger Sam, unlike composite bow archers, does benefit from on-the-spot increases to strength, making him more suitable to groups with that kind of buff.
I liked the Paladin archer idea and have tried to improve; Comments and critique please, anyway to get this to an even higher level? (DPR ~ 150 vs "Team Evil", i.e. vs Smiteable foes:
Halfling, paladin lvl 10:
STR: 12 (+1) (14 base, -2 racial)
DEX: 22 (+6) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 item)
CON: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 10 (0)
CHA: 18 (+4) (12 base, +2 racial, +4 item)
HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)
AC: 21
Base: 10
Dex: +6
Size: +1
Leather arm: +2
Buckler: +1
Haste: +1
Saves:
Fort: 7+2+4+1 = +14
Ref: 3+6+4+1 = +14
Will: 7+0+4+1 = +12
Items:
Shortbow +3 (18k)
Belt of dex +4 (16k)
Cloak of cha +4 (16k)
Boots of speed (12k)
Feats:
Point blank shot
Precise shot
Improved Critical
Rapid shot
Manyshot
Circumstantial though it may be, we're assuming the adversary is on "team evil", thus the small hero is using smite (swift action) and clicking the boot heels together as well for haste (free action), leaving enough time for a full attack in the first round. (Using a standard action would allow for imbuing the bonded weapon with the "Holy" quality for another 2d6 damage, but that's not according to the olympics rules;))
No of attacks:
Haste attack (full BAB)
First attack (full BAB)
Multishot attack (full BAB)
Rapidshot attack (full BAB)
Second Attack (BAB -5)
Totals 5 attacks
To hit bonus:
BAB: +10
Dex: +6
Cha: +4 (smite)
Haste: +1
Size: +1
Bow: +3
Rapid shot: -2
Total: +23
Base Damage:
Composite Shortbow: d6 ~ 3.5
Str: +1
Bow: +3
Smite: +20
Total: 27.5 (19-20 x3)
I.e.: +23/+23/+23/+23/+18, d6+24, (19-20) x3
Vs "Team Evil" AC 24 this turns out to 150.15 DPR if my calculations are correct.
Vs "Evil Dork" AC 24, we have 95.55 DPR and vs non-evil we have 33.75 DPR.
Take Deadly Aim instead of improved crit, but remember wind wall is a low level spell.
You are also doing 119 against Team evil not 150. The program does all the math for you. There is a link to it within the first 3 pages of this thread I believe.
Wraithstrike, yes I agree, a pure archery build can be easily thwarted by simple spells. I have not factored this into the build as it is not part of the DPR olympics. (Mind you the same reasoning applies to Tempest Ted, Rexxar, Falchion Fred etc. who can be thwarted by the target using using a simple fly spell)
About the math, I'm not sure I understand. Using the DPR calculator I get an average of 31.35 per attack with +23 to hit bonus and 24.48 per attack with +18 to hit bonus. (This is in fact a small error in the DPR calculator I suspect, the real number should be 24.75 if I'm correct).
Adding 4 attacks at +23 and 1 attack at +18 gives a total of 149.88 DPR. (or 150.15 using the formulas on page 1 and my own calculations.) Can you please point to where my mistake is? The DPR you get (119)is indicative of you using one less attack at full BAB than me, is that the case?
Assuming that my math is ok, using Deadly Aim instead of Improved Crit actually reduces the DPR by a slightly more than 2, but with both feats the DPR increases by 10. I.e., perhaps the reasoning behind using the halfling is flawed and a human with an extra feat is the better choice...
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This is to help with Playtesting the ninja. If you guys have the time, I would ask if you could help either optimize my ninja build or work on optimizing the gunslinger or samurai. When the next round of playtesting comes if there are any significant changes then make a new post. This way we can see how the new classes will hold up against their optimized partners. Thanks!
Ability Scores:
Str: 22 (17 base, +1 level, +4 Belt)
Dex: 16 (15 base, +1 level)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 12
HP: 70 (10d8+17) ninja is favored class
Saving Throws:
Fort: +8 Ref:+11 Will:+8
AC:
23 - Touch 13, Flat Footed 20 (+10 +1 Mithril Full Plate, +3 Dex)
Attacks: +2 Keen Falcatta +15/+10 (1d8+17) 17-20/x3
When Flanking: +19/+14 (1d8+18)
Special Attacks:
Sneak Attack +4d6, Precise Strike +1d6, Pressure Points 1Str or Dex
Class Abilities:
Judgement 1/day (+2 Dmg)
Spell Buffs(Divine Favor +2 Atk and Dmg)
Solo Tactics
Teamwork Feat (Outflank)
Vanishing Act
Pressure Points
Weapon Training(Falcata)
Ki pool (8 points per day)
BAB:+7/+2 CMB: +13 CMD: 26
Feats:
Heavy Armor Prof.
Power Attack
Precise Strike
Extra Ki
Extra Ki
Skills:
Acrobatics: +15
Stealth:+15
Intimidate, Bluff, Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, some Knowledge
Traits:
Orc Racial w/ Sacred Tatoo(+1 all saves)
Heirloom Weapon (Falcata)
Dirty Fighting
Gear:
+2 Keen Cold Iron Falcata (Heirloom Weapon) (18,000)
Mithril Full Plate +1 (13,500)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
Boots of Haste (12,500)
Belt of Strength +4 (16,000)
Handy Haversack (2,000)
1,000 gp of miscellaneous
When not flanking DPR 28.6.
+1 to hit DPR 4.90
+1 to damage DPR 1.32
When flanking DPR 66.15 with 1.63 STR or DEX damage
+1 to hit DPR 4.9
+1 to damage DPR 1.89
Extra Attack DPR 39.2
Just for fun, if he has one round to buff and can use all his resources: Judgment +2 damage, Divine Favor +2 Atk and Dam, 1 ki for extra attack, and boots of haste. His damage increases to DPR 191.33
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This build was by request of some who wanted a dex based full level 10 ninja. I will say this is not optimized becuase the ninja, like the rogue, is a great class but to maximize damage output you will need to dip into a martial class.
Ability Scores:
Str: 8
Dex: 26 (20 base, +4 belt, +2 level)
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 14
HP: 73 (10d8+20) ninja is favored class
Saving Throws:
Fort: +5 Ref:+16 Will:+5
AC:
26 - Touch 18, Flat Footed 26 (+7 +3 Mithril Shirt, +7 Dex, +1 natural Armor, +1 size)
Attacks: +3 Scimitar +19/+14 (1d4+15) 18-20/x2
When Flanking: +23/+17 (1d4+16)
Special Attacks:
Sneak Attack +5d6, Bleed 5
Class Abilities:
Poison Use
Sneak Attack +5d6
2nd ninja trick: Vanishing Act
4th ninja trick: Combat trick (Power Attack)
6th ninja trick: Weapon Training(Scimitar)
8th ninja trick: Bleeding Strike
10th ninja trick: Invisible Blade
Uncanny Dodge
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Light Steps
No Trace +3
BAB:+7/+2 CMB: +5 CMD: 23
Feats:
Martial Weapon Prof.
Weapon Finesse
Dervish Dance
Extra Ki
Extra Ki
Skills:
Stealth:+27
Acrobatics: +23
Bunch of others
Traits:
Halfling w/ Craven, Swift as Shadows,
Heirloom Weapon(Scimitar)
Dirty Fighting
Gear:
+3 Cold Iron Scimitar (Heirloom Weapon) (18,000)
Mithril Shirt +3 (10,100)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
Boots of Haste (12,500)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000)
Handy Haversack (2,000)
400 gp for miscellaneous stuff
When not flanking DPR 27.11.
+1 to hit DPR 2.02
+1 to damage DPR 1.79
When flanking DPR 63.98 with Bleed 5
+1 to hit DPR 1.94
+1 to damage DPR 1.9
Extra Attack DPR 36.84
If allowed able to use boots of haste a ki point then his damage becomes DPR 137.66
Compared to Ned, Tim is worse in every department except stealth, touch AC, and flat-footed AC. With such horrible saves I would not want to play this character. It should be taken into account though that Tim can go greater invisible for 10 rounds with 1 ki point. His DPR is respectable and nearly matches Ned's when not buffed.
Has anyone posted a mounted barbarian yet?
The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.
h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Total combined dpr ranges roughly between 249.5 and 296.9.
Anyway this was a large ammount of referencing to make my pokemon. I may have goofed in areas. I also avoided making custom items like a several slotless +1 equivalent amulets of mighty fists because I think it mentioned no custom items. I originally wanted to have my summoner spirited pounce summoner to also be using gauntlets and multiweapon fighting but I just couldn't fit the feats in.
No limited use per day items like Boots of Speed.
Your summoner's saves are a bit on the weak side. I think +8 is supposed to be the minimum.
Either gauntlets are weapons or they are unarmed attacks. You are treating them as both at the same time. I am not sure that is correct rules wise. IE, I do not think that gauntlets attack will get the benefit of the Amulet of Might Fists, but if you make natural attacks, then you are bound by the eidolon's natural attack limitation.
Also in regards to the gauntlets, it goes like this. Gauntlets are unarmed attacks, AoMF applies to natural attacks and unarmed attacks. unarmed attacks are not natural attacks but weapon attacks, thus I use multiweapon fighting for each gauntlet attack I make.
My point is that you are exploiting 2 separate loopholes to create this character(Unarmed attacks are not natural attacks + Eidolon has no cap on "armed" attacks). I am pretty sure there is a comment from the developers around here about the E have not limit on armed attacks being a loophole that was going to be fixed in errata. Just don't be surprised if your GM tells you to go jump in a lake.
Also, since the eidolon didn't take improved unarmed combat, they are going to provoke everytime they make an unarmed attack. You need to drop lunge for Improved Unarmed Strike.
I know that limited use per day items are frowned upon which is why I calculated dpr with and without it.
You should give the total combined DPR without it as well. You give a range for DPR with no qualifications on it.
You should also give the summoner's DPR when they cannot charge. It is kinda of important to note how much damage you lose when you get stuck in a situation where you cannot charge.
From the eidolon damage calculations.
2 claws 21/21
1 bite 21
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
If you are making attacks with normal weapons, then all your natural attacks are secondary attacks and thus are at -5 to hit, this should be two claws at +16/+16 to hit and a bite at +16 to hit. Also, secondary attacks only get 1/2 strength to damage.
Also
To hit= 8 bab+14str+2 enhancement=+24
28 strength only gives you a +7 to hit, and the amulet of MF is only a +1 bonus.
That means your base to hit is +8(BAB) +7(str) +1(enhancement) = +16 base.
If you are using multiweapon fighting, you still take the -2 to hit with all attacks just like a two-weapon fighter does.
Also, in your calculations you are using 23 for the eidolon's average unarmed damage. 2d6 + 2d6 + 8 is 7 + 7 + 8 = 22 average damage.
That means your attacks should look like this.
Gauntlets 14/14/14/14/14/14/9
Gauntlet damage= 2d6 +2d6 elemental+8 = 22 average
2 claws 9/9
Claw damage= 1d6 +2d6elemental +3 = 13.5
1 bite 9
1d8 +2d6elemental +3 = 14.5
With that I get the Eidolon doing 81.875 DPR on a pounce and 75.125 on a normal full attack.
Alright, I went through and found the updated rules -- with those the barbarian build I was looking at suffers the lost of 3 levels on his AC which simply kills the DPR of the mount which in turn lowers the overall DPR of the build too much to make up for weak defenses.
So:
With the understanding that the build falls out of bounds due to the use of a non-core feat (boon companion) and suffers in defenses (a point I would contend might be survivable with this build) I present Camel Charlie the barbarian and his mount Hammy:
Camel Charlie:
Starting stats:
Str 15 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 8
Level and Raical adjustments:
Str 16 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8
Magical items:
Str 20 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8
Raging:
Str 24 Dex 12 Con 20 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8
Racial Option and Favored class choice: Toothy, Extra Rage
Feats: Power Attack, Mounted Combat, Boon Companion, Ride by attack, Spirited charge
Rage Powers: Lesser beast totem, Ferocious mount, Beast totem, Greater ferocious mount, Greater beast totem
Equipment: Amulet of the Mighty Fist(furious), Belt of str +4, Cloak of resistance +3, Breastplate +3, Ring of protection +1
Full Attack:
Raging, Charging while not mounted:
+10(BAB)+7(str)+2(amulet)+2(charging)-3(power attack)
+18 to hit
Bite: 1d4+7(str)+2(amulet)+6(power attack)= 1d4+15
Claw: 1d8+7(str)+2(amulet)+6(power attack)= 1d8+15
Claw: 1d8+15
DPR: 47.72 (I used Tejon's second update for this)
Raging Charging while mounted:
Raging, Charging while not mounted:
+10(BAB)+7(str)+2(amulet)+2(charging)-3(power attack)
+18 to hit
Bite: 1d4+7(str)+2(amulet)+6(power attack)= (1d4+15)x2(spirited charge)=2d4+30
Claw: 1d8+7(str)+2(amulet)+6(power attack)= (1d8+15)x2(spirited charge) = 2d8+30
Claw: 2d8+30
DPR: 93.79 (I did not use Tejon's update for this as it doesn't allow for spirited charge, however I did use the correct formula to include the critical chance)
Non-DPR numbers: AC 21(20 while raging and charging), Fort +13(+15 raging) Ref +7 Will +8(+10 while raging) Rage Rounds: 37, HP 105(125 while raging)
Hammy
Camel
Str 23 Dex 19 Con 16 Int 3 Wis 12 Cha 4
Magic Items
Str 25 Dex 19 Con 16 Int 3 Wis 12 Cha 4
Raging
Str 29 Dex 19 Con 16 Int 3 Wis 12 Cha 4
Feats: : Iron Will, Power Attack, Nimble Moves, Acrobatic Step, Light Armor Proficiency
Equipment: Belt of Str +2, Amulet of the Mighty Fist(furious), Cloak of resistance +1
Full attack:
Raging and Charging:
+6(BAB)+9(str)+2(amulet)+2(charge)-1(size)-2(power attack)=+16
Bite: 1d4+9(str)+2(amulet)+4(power attack)=1d4+15
Claw: 1d8+9(str)+2(amulet)+4(power attack)=1d8+15
Claw: 1d8+15
DPR:61.13
Non-DPR Numbers: AC 28(27while raging and charging) Fort +9(+11 while raging) Ref +11 Will +7(+9 while raging) HP 63 (81 while raging)
Total DPR while raging and charging: 154.92
Total DPR while raging and not charging: 97.97
Some notes to Tejon: I think that your spreadsheet is allowing iterative attacks on natural attacks but I'm not sure: Also including a line or something for primary natural attacks of a different dice/critical multiplier size would be awesome as well as a line denoting charging, and spirited charge as these are becoming more common.
Notes to anyone double checking: Again I know that the boon companion feat isn't legal by the current rules, I'm just putting this guy up for general fyi numbers. I think I have most of the math right and the money spent correctly -- I should be 2k gp under currently.
My primary reason for thinking the barbarian's AC would be ok is the fact he can ride by attack while getting his full attack, limiting his foes to one attack a round on him (or the camel). The camel having acrobatic steps allows him to charge so long as he has a line to do so on and is within 25 feet.
I accounted for all the beast totem abilities on both the barbarian and the camel. Ferocious mount doesn't say that it is a totem and as such can be used with beast totem (which is a totem of course). I can't find anything else that would cause them to not work together.
The way greater ferocious mount is worded the mount gets all the bonuses the barbarian does while raging that do not require an action to use. The beast totem requires no actions to gain its abilities so the camel would get the claw attacks, the natural armor bonus and the pounce ability.
The pounce combined with the spirited charge is what really makes this build. Without it the barbarian would be limited to a single attack as would the camel resulting in much lower damage.
The total penalty to AC while raging and charging is -4, while the total natural armor bonus from the beast totem at level 10 is +3. This gives a net change to AC of -1 (which is shown in the AC line of both Charlie and Hammy).
Yes, I guess he could.
I took another look at the barbarian APG features. I don't think the build is legal, because I think Beast Totem and Ferocious Mount are two different "themes."
I could be wrong though.
The only thing that matters with the APG rage powers is not mixing two totems. Since I only have one totem (Beast) I'll all good on that part.
Shasta, the sure shot shuriken shucker...
w/deadly aim, point blank shot, rapid shot, twf and imp. twf, smite evil, ki point for extra attack and flurry of stars
+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10
1d3+3+8+1+1
(107.80 DPR)This is my first post here, and kind of a joke, but please correct anything misleading or wrong.
Enjoy!
NP. Welcome to the Olympics! extra attack from Ki and Flurry of stars are mutually exclusive as both are swift actions.
in regards to the ninja char I do t think the twf thing works, those feats don't stack with flurry on a monk I cannot see why they would on a ninja
You have real problems with a flying opponent though.Why?
The mount could get a fly/air walk spell cast upon it easily enough couldn't it?
-James
Yes, I guess he could.
I took another look at the barbarian APG features. I don't think the build is legal, because I think Beast Totem and Ferocious Mount are two different "themes."
I could be wrong though.
No problem, as long as they don't replace the same class features (they don't) you can have as many archetypes as you want.
15 point ninja
9 str (10 for the purpose of carrying gear) masterwork backpack
20 dex [+2 belt]
10 con
12 int
9 wis
18 chr [+2 lvl, +2head band]
feats
Weapon Finesse
two-weapon fighting
extra rogue talent (bleeding attack)
point blank shot/shadow strike
Precise Shot/extra rogue talent (Choking Bombs)
improved two-weapon fighting
ninja tricks
Vanishing Trick
Ki Charge/Poison Bombs
Smoke Bombs/ bleeding attack
Wall Climber/ Flurry of Stars
Shadow Clone/powerful sneak
deadly sneak/Invisible Blade/Assassinate/Blinding Bombs /lasting poison
+12/+7 short sword 6d6 +5 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak= 38 as standard action
or +12/+12 +7/+7 short sword 6d6 +5 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak =77 damage in full round
or Flurry of Stars (providing you can use it and two weapon fighting)
6d2 + 5d6 + 5 bleed min 3 damage sneak attacks =26 damage
or Assassinate at dc 19
0r Ki Charge throwing a star knife at +12 doing 2d6 10ft burst main target also takes sneak damage at 6d6 + 5 bleed = 29 to main target and 6 damage to every one else after a full round attacking two targets totaling 106 min damage in one turn
taking into account not adding any other magic items or Poison but the 2 4000 stat bumps you could take things like speed to get a extra attack with each weapon or Axiomatic or Anarchic and adding dueling for 14000 gives you +4 INITIATIVE to ensure you get first strike and Menacing as a +1 to get a +4 to flank for that extra little bit of got to hit if done right and going for just damage you can do about 150 damage done right at lvl 10 or u know Assassinate
Deathblade is a nice Poison lowering your enemy's hp1/rd. for 6 rds. 1d3 Con 2 saves and only costing around 600 gold a dose with craft
and given the way the poison dc stacks up now even Drow poison can be useful so say you use Drow poison and take lasting poison you can loot at a dc of 19 for just Drow poison (providing you hit with every attack)
damage or survivability
your choice
i dont see why you need to take a martial class to do damage you only lose 3 BaB by lvl 10 which you can make up in flank and a +1 weapon so all and all u only have to worry about your lack of hp and the fact that you have 53 hp at lvl 10 with this build (tho that is why i added the survivability options) but you really only need wand of blink :D and you get total concealment and your ac is 20 at this point (mithral chain shirt+1 and dex
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15 point ninja
The point of dipping into martial is to get armor proficiencies without spending feats. That way you can focus all your ability points into Strength for high dpr.
From what I've seen a two weapon fighter always does less damage than a two-handed. Throw in DR and it gets even worse. Very few exceptions to this but I can only imagine the fighter being able to pull this off.
Also, you cannot combine ki charge and flurry of stars. Ki charge is a standard action in which you charge and throw a shuriken simultaneously. Flurry of stars can only be used when making a full-round attack with shuriken.
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Shasta, the sure shot shuriken shucker
Awesome to see you get him up here! I'm not too keen on throwing builds for me they are just too expensive. Not to mention the fact he can only use flurry 4 times a day or twice if he pumps another in for the extra attack. Nice to see all the math layed out though thanks for putting him up :)
Mojorat, as written now two-weapon fighting works with the flurry of stars ninja trick. However, you may want to mention your concerns on the ninja boards. Could be a good catch or the developers intention that they work together.
From what I've seen a two weapon fighter always does less damage than a two-handed. Throw in DR and it gets even worse. Very few exceptions to this but I can only imagine the fighter being able to pull this off.
Ya, but you see IMO rogues and ninjas are made to use Weapon Finesse as in not needing 18 str so having two light weapons you get more attacks and with a class that could sometimes misses the more attacks the better and having the chance to do 4 attacks as 6d6 with 5 bleed is nice
ok i will make the ninja again but this time min max her :)
14 str (15 for the purpose of carrying gear) masterwork backpack
24 dex [+6 belt]
10 con (+1 lvl)
8 int
9 wis (+1 lvl)
16 chr [+2 head band]
feats
Weapon Finesse
two-weapon fighting
power attack
bloody assault
improved two-weapon fighting
Double Slice(to set up for two-weapon rend)
ninja tricks
Swift Poison
bleeding attack
powerful sneak
combat trick (Improved Initiative)
Deadly Sneak
+13/+8 Rapier 6d6 (+4 str)+7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 con (deathblade) 1d4 bleed (bloody assault)= 44 + -1 Hp a lvl as standard action
or +13/+11 +8/+6 Rapier 6d6 +8(str) +7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 and 1d4 con (deathblade)and (Wyvern poison) 1d4 bleed=87 damage and -1 hp a level in full round
or +13/+11 +8/+6 +13 Rapier 6d6 (+10 str) +7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 and 1d4 con (deathblade)and (Wyvern poison) 1d4 bleed=107 damage and -1 hp a level in full round with haste all of these are MIN damage
+13/+8 Rapier 6d6 (+4 str)+7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 con (deathblade) 1d4 bleed (bloody assault)= 52+ 9 bleed + -3 Hp a lvl as standard action
or +13/+11 +8/+6 Rapier 6d6 +8(str) +7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 and 1d4 con (deathblade)and (Wyvern poison) 1d4 bleed=104 + 9 bleed + -3 hp a level in full round
or +13/+11 +8/+6 +13 Rapier 6d6 (+10 str) +7 bleed min of 3 damage each sneak 1d3 and 1d4 con (deathblade)and (Wyvern poison) 1d4 bleed=130 damage+ 9 bleed + -3 hp a level in full round with haste these are AVERAGE damage
+1 mithril breastplate
2 +1 Rapier or short swords
about 12000 in poison's
179 DFFR to a level ten counting poison which takes roughly 4hp a level
** spoiler omitted **
w/o heroism high attacks at 18, low attack at 13.
+18 gauntlet attack= 1.05(.75*15.5)=12.2 damage per hit
+13 gauntlet attack= 1.05(.5*15.5)=8.13
+18 claw attack=1.05(.75*12)=9.45
+18 bite attack=1.05(.75*13)=10.23
total dpr= 6(12.2)+8.13+2(9.45)+10.23=110.46w/heroism, high attacks at 20, low attacks at 15.
+20 gauntlet attack=1.05(.85*15.5)=13.833
+15 gauntlet attack=1.05(.6*15.5)=9.765
+20 claw attack=1.05(.85*12)=10.71
+20 bite attack=1.05(.85*13)=11.6
total dpr= 125.083Note I could probably boost full attack dpr if I switched this build into a biped build or de-emphasized his being a mount.
First your attack bonuses should be +23 with heroism instead of +22.
The claw and bite attacks should be at -5(-2 with multiattack) to hit in addition to all attacks taking a -2 to hit from multiweapon fighting, and when halving bonuses you always round down, so the damage from strength on your natural attacks should only be +4.
Thus w/heroism, high attacks at 21, low attacks at 16.
+21 gauntlet attack=1.05(.9*15.5)=14.6475
+16 gauntlet attack=1.05(.65*15.5)=10.5788
+19 claw attack=1.05(.9*11)=10.395
+19 bite attack=1.05(.9*12)=11.34
total dpr= 130.594
There is a spread sheet that does the math for you. spreadsheet