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You need to focus your concept a bit. "Wizard" is usually not a narrow enough concept for the Wizard class. What does "Being a Wizard" mean for you and the character? For instance, if you want versatility, you can get more as a Gnome Illusionist / Summoner. Also, by taking Expanded Arcana at every opportunity, you are really denying yourself a lot of good feats--particularly metamagic feats, which the Sage bloodline is adept at.

That said, you have a pretty solid starting point.
- Get (Greater) Shadow Evocation/Conjuration.
- Stay away from spells you will only cast once per day (Rope Trick, Mage Armor, etc).
- Get Communal Mount A.K.A Wall of Horses.
- Nix highly situational spells like Feather fall--use a scroll instead.
- Have Sleep from level 1. Trade it out when its no longer useful.
- Have Stinking Cloud from level 6.
- Have Haste from level 7 unless someone else has it covered.
- Unless your build is different from the norm, stay away from offensive touch spells like hideous laughter.
- Look into Blood Money and costly material components. I haven't done the research yet but it looks promising.
- You have a lot of summoning spells, and early. Make sure you're a player who can responsibly use them without dragging the game down.
- Trade out spells, like Summon Monster, as they become obsolete. You generally only want two levels of Summon Monster.

Remember that there are items to expand your spells known now.


High AC -- I assume you mean early game. Swarms and Splash Weapons by the enemy, and traps should keep encounters interesting. CMB-based attacks also work.

Invulnerable Rager -- This is actually a non-issue. His low AC means you can always affect him, meaning you can always keep encounters interesting. Make him overextend a few times, and realize he can't be healed or buffed. Use enemies that use one big hit rather than a bunch of little hits. Alternatively, use touch attack spells.

Enchanter / Witch -- The issue with this type of player is that they will try and select the combats. In a dungeon they are fine, its in a kingdom setting that they hurt. Let them get a reputation and then specifically counter them. Let people not be entirely too happy about being mind controlled later.

Properly Built Monk -- Elementals, man. I still have literally no idea what to do against a CR appropriate air elemental. But, in general, DR that can't be bypassed wrecks a monk, as does things with tons of CMD or that are otherwise immune to Maneuvers. Beyond that, there are a few particular types of optimized monks, and they have to be countered individually.

Paladin "McSmiteypants" -- Honestly, how to mess with Paladins is GMing 101. You basically got it.

Guns -- Non-Issue. Smack them in the face if they are that close.

Ultra DPR Dervish Magus -- Why are they able to get off a full attack and not feel like they are about to get smacked by something bigger? When designing your encounters, don't count on any particular enemy living long. If you must use a BBEG like that, miss chance, mirror image, etc all ruin his day.


You Monk dip should be in Master of Many Forms. That'll net you Dragon Style and something else (Crane?). Anyways. Fighter and Barbarian are about equal. Ranger is ahead vs Favored Enemy. 3/4 BAB classes are better in terms of +damage, but suffer +hit and from being feat starved.


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Let him take a trait that gives Stealth as a class skill. Make him a Fighter.

BAM. Done. He's new, don't bog him down with stuff he won't need. If he wants to be Dex-Based, then do the scimitar thing.


...? Easy. Anything with Crane Style wrecks them. Various Save or suck spells work. Bows work. Chug a potion of Displacement or use Blind Fighting + Eversmoking Bottle. Tehre's an alchemical item that makes you immune to scent, IIRC.

Heck, you can beat these guys with a Bard or a Monk easily, if you want to rub it in.

The Bard:

Human Dervish Dancer Level 9
STR 14 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 10 / WIS 10 / CHA 14

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Arcane Strike, Heart of... Something... that gives +1 to Inspire Courage, Clustered Shots

Equipment: Chainmail, Potion of Barkskin, Masterwork Composite Shortbow

HP 75
To Hit: +19
AC: 24, 50% Miss Chance
Damage: 1d6+2+6+2 = 13.5 (14.5 with PBS)

Round 1: Chug Barkskin and start Dancing
Round 2: Use Displacement, Move. When you move, make sure to split up but see each other, to maximize how many rounds you can fire without retaliation.
Roud 3+: Full Attack for 47 average damage, after DR. Concentrate your fire on one Barbarian at a time. In comparison, they deal an average of 14 damage to you, including 1 AoO per round.

Points: Attributes (20), Level (54), Masterwork Composite Shortbow (8), Armor (1), Potion of Barkskin +5 (50) = 134


The Sensei:

Tengu Quinggong Sensei Ki Mystic
STR 12 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 7 / WIS 20 / CHA 5

Feats: Dodge, Point Blank Shot, Deflect Arrows, Precise Shot, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Crane Riptose

Equipment: Masterwork Rope Dart, Masterwork Kusari-Gama, Potion of Displacement

Notes: Trade something out for the Barkskin SLA and the Scorching ray SLA. If you can start drunk, be a Drunken Master.

HP: 75
AC: 24 (28 when Fighting Defensively), Displacement
To-Hit: +15 vs Touch

Tactics
Round 1: Activate Barkskin, Activate Bardic Music
Round 2: Chug Displacement, Move
Round 3+: Fire Eye Lasers, dealing an average of 34 Damage and Move in some order.
Round X: When one of them is dead from eye lasers, and the other is almost dead, whittle down the rest with basic weapon attacks.

You also move 80ft per move action so kiting them isn't an issue. If they do manage to catch up, quite honestly they can't damage you with any sense of reliability, between the miss-chance, massive AC, and Crane Style.


*Looks at thread title*

O_o This should be good. :)

*reads thread*

Okay, that's a definite... start. Is this suppossed to be tactics to getting more damage and... abusing Bewildering Koan, apparently?

Quote:
1) Size is your friend

Brotherhood of the Seal is a good PrC.

Vital Strike is a horrible feat. Most Monk players don't want multi-classing, or at least not extensive multiclassing. Your principle is right, but your intended execution runs into problems. If you're a Druid 5, what do you add to the character by taking more than maybe two levels of Monk at all? Multi-Classing also tends to not be Newbie friendly. If you're dipping into Sorcerer talk about Mage Armor, by the way.

There's also the Druger-only archetype if you can use it, by the way.

While this is your best source of damage, it's also not what you should focus on.

Eldritch Heritage is secretly the highest DPR Monk in existence, but it requires abusing Opportunistic Gambler. Otherwise its not worth it.

Quote:
2.)Don't be MAD, get SAD

Sensei, you absolutely cannot talk about taking Sensei without also talking about how it fundamentally changes your character. Sensei in play are like really, really tanky Bard / Fighter hybrids. Seriously, stop looking at them, play a Tengu Sensei and swap between using a THW and the Rope Dart. They also have shennanigans with Quinggong Monk. Truestrike on other people? The whole team? Giving a swarm of Orphans Laser Eyes? All okay.

Guided Hand is a good find, and I'd recommend it to anyone who can take the level hit.

I've never actually seen a GM allowt he Guided Enhancement, and it ties you fundementally to your equipment, but its worth a mention.

Ki Diversity in conjunction with Drunken Master is worth a mention as well. Not for all games, but its worth a mention if your GM is willing to help you out and allow it early or if you're starting a high-level game.

Quote:
3.)Funky mystic Bullcrap

Yeah, Bewildering Koan is broken as hell.

Some builds really use Drunken Master well, for the reasons you stated.

All Monks except Martial Artists should be Quinggong Monks.

4.) Stuff You Don't Talk About

Archetypes:
Maneuver Master, Flowing Monk / Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain, Sohei, Tetori, Zen Archer, Wanderer, Nimble Guardian, Underfoot Adept, Ironskin Monk.

All of those archetypes fundementally change how you play your Monk, or add so much to

Races:
Why Halflings are one of the best Monk races. (Racial Feets)
What the Tengu adds in terms of weapons.

Those are just the bizzar options people might not notice.

Equipment:
Nets, using a Temple Sword two-handed, Caltrops, Alchemy Items, Shuriken, Rope-Dart, 7-Branched Sword, Menacing Weapon Property, Ioun Stones.

Feats:
Honestly, touching upon these at all is essential for a Newbie. Its often the most overwhelming part of character creation. Also Medusa's Strike and how to get it off.

Party Buffs:
While you may or may not be able to rely on buffs, a Newbie knowing what to ask for would help them greatly.

Tactics:
Tactics make or break a Monk.


At level 20? It varies. Saves and improved evasion / fortitude become more important at that level, defensively. Note, however, that this is only at extremely high levels. At lower levels ,and against certain enemies, you'd make your party immune to them.

That said, in practicality, because your numbers make the result so binary (you make anything but a natural 20 an auto-miss) you're going to force the GM to contrive situations and opponents that minimize your advantage to challenge the party. This means you'll wind up facing a whole lot of save-based enemies or movement restrictions that demand you all not be adjacent. Just a forewarning.


You can't use a Temple Sword two-handed through your entire flurry anymore, sadly.

...And I meant Maneuver Master is perfect for your style, not MoMF. Whoops.

Just take the -4 penalty when throwing a net. Its vs touch AC.

Wis-Based MoMS works off an elemental fist styly, Ki Diversity, and Tiger style (possibly also with Dragon Style, but that can be supplemented with a defensive style instead). The end result is that when you spend the swift and attack with Tiger Style you wind up dealing something like ~(Base Unarmed Damage)*2+WIS Mod*6+(1d6+1d6 per 5 levels)*2 damage in one attack, with a chance to crit.

Its not as good as it sounds, except vs enemies with a lot of DR.


A Mysterious Stranger 1 / Arcane Duelist Bard 19 is going to have a much higher CHA then an Archer Bard. Assuming 20-pt buy STR 10 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 10 / WIS 10 / CHA 16 before racial mods is not a bad starting point. I would actually look into being a Halfling for this concept, upping my STR a bit to compensate. I would probably use Quick Draw over Rapid Reload. Between Arcane Strike and Bardic Performance your damage will be great before magic items. It's a pitty Bards don't have access to Longshot or Named Bullet... Mysterious Stranger + Named Bullet + Deadeye Shot is the holy grail of damage.


*Cracks Knuckles* First, a Dex / Wis Monk is possible. There are a couple of ways to make it work. Agile Weapon makes it work. A Cleric Dip + Guided Hand also works, and opens up Domain buffs or Domain Strike. Ki Diversity's option to replace STR with WIS works if you are a Drunken Master. Focusing on combat maneuvers, ala trip (Flowing Monk / Maneuver Master), works depending on the campaign and how tanky you want to be. Another, final way is to be a MoMF, but that rout is an uphill battle. That said, as a Dwarf, Wis-based may be the way to go.

On that note, don't use multiple styles unless you are a MoMF.

Understand that, and I can not stress this enough, equipment is your friend. Monks are better in a situation where no one has equipment, but they also benefit the most from it.

Two-Hand a temple sword in the beginning. When you flurry, use kicks. Alternatively, carry a net, throw it first round of combat, move + draw Temple Sword the next. A Ki-Focus Temple Sword is never worth it.

CHA-Based Monks are technically the best for damage, but that involves abusing a particular trait.

What is your trick for getting off Medusa's Wrath? There are a few options. A 7-Branched Sword + Trip, Shattered Defenses, Forcing Stunning Fist to go off (Enforcer + Cruel AoMF)).

Don't be afraid to use Scorching Ray for damage as a Drunken Master.

For your trip / dirty trick / set people up for damage concept, you may want to look into a Master of Many Styles, who seems specialized in the playstyle you are going for.


Step 1. Seek immediate professional help in regards to your obvious self-harmful behavior.

I'm only being half sarcastic. This is an undertaking. I've run events in persistent worlds with that many people, but never a full campaign. In-person you need a co-DM and encourage splitting the party. Online you need expert micromanaging and pacing skills. If online create a system of one GM post, exactly one post from each player (except during dialogue), and then one post from the GM.

Your biggest issue is going to be pacing. You're naturally going to just ignore players as well. It won't be your fault, but it'll happen.


I have played with several female GMs of varying skill levels. I've also GMed while having several female players, of varying levels of skill. It really depends on the person.

As for why most don't GM, think about how hard it is to get a guy to GM. Now, a guy is willing to produce something for the team at the expense of himself and receive validation in that. Women are either less likely to exhibit this behavior in context of gaming, or male gamers or less likely to browbeat her into it. Because of this you tend to get fewer female GMs but the ones who are GMing GM because they want to.

Remove the number of dissatisfied GMs or GMs who don't actually want to be in that position of both genders and I suspect the number will be much closer. For instance, part of the reason my experiences are so diverse is because the people GMing are in that position because they want to.

Combine the above with the whole fewer female gamers thing.


I'm a bit spoiled in that regard, honestly. I tend to play Gnome with quickdraw who abuse the daylights out of Weapon Proficiency: Everything. A Two-Handed melee weapon, particularly one with reach (maybe also trip) is fantastic. It scales well with buffs, particularly +size from Enlarge Person.

Feral Mutagen is another common path to power. It takes a single discover to work and gives you DPR around fighter level up until ~level 6.

Sword and Board can work as well if you aren't looking to cause damage in melee, simply not die. Keep your weapon on a weapon cord so you can redraw it as a swift action, throw bombs, and hide behind a buckler. This requires no feat expenditure whether you are a grenadier or not.

Quickdraw + Syringe Spears are fun, especially when they are filled with Alchmist's Acid.

For a backup ranged weapon, if you either have quickdraw or are willing to spend the turn, a Launching Crossbow or Flask Thrower can work. Note that you can coat their ammunition with the Grenadier, getting your Int*2 up to Int*4 to damage.

Explosive Missile + a Gun is fantastic. Of particular note, combine the Grenadier's coat ammo quality along with a scatter weapon--like the armcannon. Suddenly your alchemical items are an AoE for the cost of a feat and a weapon. This is only viable if you can craft your own stuff via Craft: Firearms. This also makes longshot a viable extract, fyi.

Also, do not forget your infusions. I can't tell you how nasty stealth + vomit swarm is.


They do benefit bombs, just not enough to justify their purchase. It's a fringe benefit to selecting them to be effective with a bow. A bow takes a whole lot of feats to make work.

Yeah, the Goz Mask (especially with an eversmoking bottle) is broken. Expect it to be stolen / houseruled out of existence if your GM is anything like mine. XD


Hrm... Bomb Damage without complex bombs, gnome shennanigans or the orcs +Level/2 to damage? And dumping 3+ feats into being good with a bow? That's gonna be tough. You're looking at something like...

STR 14 / DEX 16 / CON 12 / INT 18 / WIS 10 / CHA 6
After racial mods as the base. Dump CHA more to raise Wis if you feel like it. If you get 25pt buy you can either raise CON / WIS or raise STR for even more damage. I'd recommend the former.

1. Point Blank Shot
2. Tanglefoot Bomb
3. Precise Shot
4. Smoke Bomb
5. Stink Bomb
6. Infusion
7. Wings
8. Fast Bombs
9. Force Bombs
10. Sticky Bombs

You may want to get your infusion at level 4, depending on the party. Don't worry about getting it at level 2.

For raw combat items, things you want, roughly in order or priority:
+INT Headband
+Cloak of Resistance
+Goz Mask (encourage allies to get the same)
+Eversmoking Bottle
+STR / DEX / CON Belt
(When you get enough Craft: Alchemy) Hybridization Funnel.
(Greater) Bracers of Archery
+AC Stuff

Don't forget to cloak you and (if given time to prep) your ally's stuff in alchemical weapons.


Nanite Surge is... O_o

What do you want to do, damage or control?

Either way, be a Grenadier. For control you're looking at Smoke + Stink Bomb and one of Tanglefoot Bomb or Grease Bomb. If you start at level 1 you may want to take Tanglefoot / Grease bomb first.

For damage slot your level 8-10 feats/discoveries as such: Fast Bombs, Force Bombs, Sticky Bombs.

For flight take the Wings discovery.

What is your intended backup weapon?


This is the type of situation you really need to talk to your GM about. Its a custom, GM-created effect so the results on your powers also need to be a custom, GM-created effect. Express your concerns and ask him/her what will happen, and that you'd rather not lose all of your class features through no fault of your own.


Aha. I learned something new today.

Hrm. I'd do it, if I wanted being unkillable by weapons as my concept.


...Wait, what?

The Chort wrote:


Fighting defensively:
-4 atk, +2 ac
With crane style:
-2 atk, +3 ac
With trait and 3 ranks in acrobatics:
-2 atk, +5 ac

Enough to get DR/- 10, which stacks with the DR gained from being an Invulnerable Rager.

How are you taking a whole bunch of stuff that grant +AC and winding up with +DR? Those are two separate systems, or is there another rule I missed?


Be a Gnome Sorcerer. Take the feats for easy illusion and the one that lets you attack through illusions. Take (Greater) Spell Focus and you should be easily rocking a DC of 17 + Spell Level + Cha Bonus from Items, difficult for anyone to overcome. From there, pilfer all the illusion spells.


Why are you using a pistol and not a longbow and, therefore, removing the need for a Gun Tank?


Have a very serious talk with the player about what evil means and why it appeals to him/her. Talk about what direction the player wants the game to go, and express what direction you want your game to go. Evil PCs can be done. Evil PCs can be done very well. Most people who can do Evil PCs very well also opt not to play them, except in certain games.

I say this as someone who has (accidently) wrecked games playing Evil PCs, and as someone who has pulled off some fairly well. There are a couple reasons, generally, that a player will want to play an Evil PC:

1. Brooding "Dark Heroes" are fun.
2. Redemption Story.
3. Be Baddie McBadass
4. A desire to be ruthless.
5. Wish fulfillment.

Note that 1-3 are actually better done as a Neutral hero. #4 can work well in the right campaign. #5 is a sign that the person has deeper issues that need to be addressed. If its 1-3, isolate it by flat-out asking, "What would this character look like as a Neutral hero?" If they don't get the picture, follow it up with, "Okay, now what does being Evil add to that?"

Who knows, they might impress you.


What do you want to do? Blast? Debuff? What?

Assuming blasting. Be a Human Crossblooded Dragon / Orc Sorcerer, using the Human's alternate favored class bonus. For powers, go Touch of Rage, Fearless, and the rest from the Draconic Bloodline.

Here's an example spell-list for you to work off of. I did this off the fly.

0 - Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Mending, Open/Close, Ghost Sound, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Message
1 - Mage Armor, Silent Image, Floating Disc, Magic Missile, Grease, Unseen Servant
2 - Resist Energy, Pyrotechnics, Knock, Communal Mount, Fiery Shuriken, Acid Arrow
3 - Fly, Haste, Slow, Seek Thoughts, Communal Resist Energy, Magic Circle Against Evil
4 - Wall of Fire, Stone Shape, Shadow Conjuration, Dragon's Breath, Black Tentacles, Dimension Door
5 - Spell Resistance, Telekinesis, Magic Jar, Shadow Evocation, Wall of Force, Communal Stoneskin
6 - Form of the Dragon I, Cold Ice Strike, Tar Pool, Contingency, Contagious Flame
7 - Delayed Blast Fireball, Greater Teleport, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Project Image, Ki Shout
8 - Form of the Dragon III, Polymorph Any Object, Mind Blank, Summon Monster VIII, Greater Shadow Evocation
9 - Wish, Mage's Disjunction, Time Stop


Go Juju Oracle. You get the same spells, and the benefit of not being inherently evil. Also, a wand of Blood Money is just... wow, fantastic. Why pay for material components again? I'd take a trait for UMD just to do that.


@Mystically Inclined: Juju Oracles can create / animate undead without it being an evil act.


You're looking at being a Summoner (Undead-flavored Eidolon), Clerit, or Juju Oracle. I'd recommend Summoner or Juju Oracle, because maximum HP on d12's are nifty. Use Animate Dead to animate the big fish, not the small fry, and use varients as much as possible. Use Create Undead once you get it. Also, Desecrate is your friend.


Be an Aasimar. Have wings, start with a serious wound to them that heals later when you get the feat. Get an interesting story behind it. Go straight paladin. Angel is fairly charisma-based anyways, IIRC.


If you want to strong-arm the concept, by a Halfling MoMF with Archon Style, Crane Style, and that feat that lets halflings share Fighting Defensively AC.

A tripping build is also fantastic, particularly if you can get reach through a Kusari-Gama or similar. Underfoot Adept or Flowing Monk may be proffered in this case.

You can also use Enforcer to layer on the Shaken Condition on people, perhaps combining with the Cruel weapon enchantment to also make them sickened (-4 to-hit, save, skills is nice if you can get it off).


Alchemist Discovery: Sticky Poison is a must if you're using poisons.


At level 1 I'd be more concerned with the palyer feeling like they wasted at trait than game balance. DBP will cause the player headaches. But yeah, if he's dead set on it, let him go for it.

Always remember: Misfire.


Your party's tactics is not your primary problem.

"Instead of a thank you for pulling out a record high four spells in the round (one quickened, two SS, one immediate towards next rounds swift) I was threatened like dirt for suggesting we be a little more careful next time." [Emphasis mine]

That is your problem. Fix that, and tactics won't be an issue. I'd suggest talking to them and telling them that you do not take kindly to being threatened and being willing to find another game if they won't let up.

Note that I am assuming you were nice about it. Statistically speaking--sorry, I don't know you--you corrected them like a jerk. In which case you need to come in, apologize for your misspeaking, explain your frustration, and go from there.

Either way, focus your efforts there.


For utility? Wizard.


Alchemists could do it too, IIRC. Don't they override targeting? Fleshwarping poison can teeeeeeechnically do it, but uh... good luck getting that okayed.


Halflings get a feat that let them trade AC for damage. The underfoot adept is also one of the best Monk archetypes. You need an Agile amulet to make it all work, though.

Apparently it only works on melee attacks though, which is sad--though I understand the decision. I always -wanted- a Shuriken Ninja to be viable, but it just doesn't want to happen.

Also, the Ifrit / Smoke Bomb trick is weak. Get an eversmoking bottle and a goz mask.

As a tangentially relevant segue, if you want more Ki have you considered a level dip in Mysterious Stranger? That gives you an excuse to pump up your Cha higher and helps with damage.


@Broken Zenith: Normal summoner instead gives a 9.56 score. It's also, by and large, better.


Guns are by and large fine. You can see the few instances of cheese a mile away. The Pisolero has a type where it doesn't actually replace gun training. It's a mistake, not the intent.

Keep track of misfire rules and your gunslinger will be fine, even with the aforementioned shenanigans.


Honestly, I find it best to have a few pregenerated characters on-hand. Show the new person a list of classes and ask what's interesting to them. Most will pick entirely on the name. If classes have distinct builds and I happen to have pregens of each, I ask "Ranged or Melee," etc. Most classes are right what they say on the tin, and most people can figure out basically what they are from the name.

If they gloss over, ask them how they want to solve problems. If they are still glossing over, make that a multiple choice question.

That said, this isn't a bad thing. I'll contribute in a bit. I'd recommend keeping a Google Docs though, so you can edit it later.


There could be a whole guide on mundane alchemy alone... So many uses.

Summary:
- Be a Grenadier, go Grenadier 1-20.
- Be a Gnome. Consider Saboteur. It's a decision to be one or not.
- Get the Master Alchemist feat.
- Get the Quick Draw feat.
- Get a Tumor Familiar Monkey to throw more alchemical items.
- If you want to use poisons, get Sticky Poison.
- Buy a hybridization funnel, live by the hybridization funnel.
- Buy several unenchanted launching crossbows.
- Consider buying / using several cheap or unenchanted shotguns. If you lace them with alchemical items, those items apply to everyone hit.
- Make sure the party face helps you sell stuff to keep your GP up.

The Grenadier lets you apply alchemical items to weapons as a swift items, this is -huge-. Emphasize the fluff surrounding your infusions. Potions that make you vomit bugs is cool. A box full of clockwork roaches is cooler. Ask your GM what you can get away with, and make sure to point out you aren't trying to get anything mechanical out of it.

Gnomes can use any weapon they build. Start with quick draw and enjoy that.

Master Alchemist lets you craft alchemical items fast. If you do reach the very high levels, ask if you can retrain it once you can make alchemical items as a standard action.

Tumor Familiar Monkeys have oppossable thumbs, offer good RP, and can throw caltrops / alchemical items.

Stick Poison is essential to use poisons without running out of gold.

Hybridization is... look, just read it. Read its sheer beauty. It's fantastic. For raw damage nothing beats an Acid Flask + Sonic Jar.

Launching Crossbows let you shoot alchemical items. Note that you can further lace these alchemical items as a grenadier. Maybe throw in focused shot, get 5x your Int Mod to damage. You buy them in multiples because you will never, ever get the reload speed down enough.

Selling GP is important, because your ammo costs 3.33gp per shot, minimum.

Personally, I would not bother with magic items on an Alchemist. It's too feat intensive, but that's me. Craft Wondrous Item should be your first priority, with Craft Arms and Armor your second. Frugal Crafting, if allowed, is the be all and end all feat once you have it.


My most PFS game included a team of 5-6 rogues, so I know what you mean. I'm not sold on the wad of summoners approach. A summoner are good if you have a team that needs a fighter and a wizard, but only has room for one more player. The Eidolon is a sub-par fighter an the Summoner is a sub-par wizard. I'm not sure, in a team with 4 of them, if they can really do all that well.

Has anyone ever actually seen a group of 4 summoners in action?


O_o No way to make this a contest about rules of what you can and can not do. I mean, I can a stock-list of a*$###@ encounters, if you want. Also, what CR are we talking about?

- Animated Adamantium Spiked Chain
- Swarm of Incorporeal Monsters, prefferable not undead ones.
- Fights involving climbing, with dispel magics present.
- Most fights underwater, again with dispel magic available.
- Swarms of Swarms
- Stealthed, Invisible enemies with nondetection.


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Oh, oh! Fun mathy tool. To note the baseline, a Cleric / Fighter / Rogue / Wizard team has a score of 7.22 / 8.56.

I have a General Score of 8.07 and a Combat Score of 9.22. The only thing that even adds to the score would be a core fighter.

Lets see... Standing is

Dragonamedrake 4.33 / 5.11:
It seriously lacks Blasting / AoE and is weak at a range. Home the DM's opponents never use fortifications or stealth.

Codanous -5.59 / -2.05:
Yes, those are minus symbols. Starting to lose a bit of faith in the tool. It says that you have no tank, no face, and that traps destroy you. I know at least two of those things are false.

Lord Tsarkon -8.93 / -5.67:
It says you are weak on blasting / area damage, finding traps, ranged attacks, and being sneaky. I agree with basically everything but the being sneaky part. There are, in fact, some major deficits in an all-summoner team.

Byrdology 5.74 / 8.15:
A little light on debuffs, but good.

Kyrt-Rider -0.93 / 4.04:
Apparently that's a horrible team. It has no effective face, trapfinder, or scout. It also lacks ranged damage and suffers from the Summoner being the only tank. Its suggested you add a Ranged fighting-type character (Fighter, Urban Barbarian, Ranger) or a Rogue.

TriOmegaZero -1.28 / 4.89:
Lacks ranged combat, scouting, trapfinding, and a face. Its also a fairly squishy party. Its recommended that you add a primary ranged combatant / tank.

BlueLuck 2.25 / 6.01:
Covered above by Broken Zenith.

Just a Mort 6.28 / 5.90:
Congradulations on being the first person with a positive general score higher than a positive combat score! You really, really need better tanks. Adds a Barbarian / Fighter / Something that doesn't die.

Gerald 0.66 / 5.79:
You really need more skills covered and better ranged support. Urban Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter, whatever.

GreenGM 8.08 / 8.51:
Now you have SCIENCE to back up the "fact" that your party is overpowered! Best score so far. If you must add something, add a ranged combatant.

Beej67 -13.98 / -10.73:
Gratz on having the worst team composition posted yet!

Master_Marshmellow 7.26 / 8.23:
An excellent, well-rounded team. The only thing that pings positive are mainline combatants (Fighters, Gunslingers, Monks, etc).

Pendagast 4.75 / 4.34:
You lack a tank and suffer in the healing department, which I'm sure you expected.

MC Templar 6.41 / 7.64:
Well-rounded party. A little weak in the melee / CC aspects.

That means, so far, I get the gold, GreenGM gets the silver, and Master_Marshmellow takes home the bronze. I'm not sure whether this tool is or is not actually an accurate measure of party composition, but I certainly can't argue with its good taste.

Random point of interest: Adding the tool's suggested party member for party member 2, 3, and 4 does not produce the highest possible result.


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Lord Tsarkon, I am absolutely ashamed of you. How could you make a party of Angel Summoners without their token BMX Bandit? Replace one of those Summoners with a Rogue, post-haste.

Lets see.

Gnome Void Shadowcaster
- Focus on Illusion / Control.
- Alternatively, be an Elf to avoid SR.

Half-Orc Alchemist
- Smoker, a touch of switch-hit/buffing.

Halfling Archivist
- Sword & Board with slings as an option
- Use Halfling Racials for +Damage / Granting Allies +AC.

Human Invulnerable Rager
- CAGM IAM.

Is a nice mix. At least three members of the party can do every role while maintaining their own focus, so there's a lot of redundancy. With the use of traits and clever selection of Skills, you can get every out of combat role taken care of. I would make sure everyone has Stealth and Perception.


IIRC, there's a feat that lets you feint as part of a flurry. I distinctly remember being subsequently disappointed that feinting didn't trigger Medusa's Wrath.

Take a loot at the Halfling-specific feats regarding damage. I know halflings are secretly one of the best races for Monk DPR, I can only imagine that holds true for ninja as well.

Being a Monk will absolutely not boost your DPS. You can get some tricks via Flowing Monk / Maneuver Master / MoMS, but almost all of your benefits will be defensive.


By Assassin do you mean the Assassin class? If yes, the normal Assassin or the Red Mantis Assassin? Why aren't you going ninja, which seems to offer both the martial and mystical sides you are going for?

Monks make fairly awesome Assassins by themselves, by the way. Either solo or with buff support. They lack an instant-kill ability, but eh.

Anyways, assuming you mean the class, don't take more than 4 levels of Monk. Your other level should be in Fighter or Ranger.


Hey, sorry I've been tardy. I'm getting used to being back in school and my dad got laid off this past Friday, so other things have been on my mind. I'll post by the end of the day tomorrow, promise. I'm too tired to be coherent right now.


-pokes someone with better social/mental skills and more subtlety than me-

We totally need to get this girl to pass on information and/or help rig the games. :P


I looked over my sheet and realized I had an extra feat by mistake. I removed enforcer to correct, and my apologies.

I also realized how annoyingly complex my full-attack routine is. XD I hope I minimized it / prepared for the right contingencies. I'll probably wind up using that slightly reformatted and with more shorthand later-on.

...I find it hilarious that I rolled a 20 on my potential attempt to trip a CMD 50+ Spider (stupid +4 per leg beyond 2). :D

Spending 2 Ki makes the trip possible, btw. Sorry I forgot to mention that.


Ew! Sorry to hear that, Rodolpho. :(

I'm glad you're feeling better and hope you get to feeling great!


I was here! Just not the last two days because I was getting everything square with Temple. Seemed to be going slow enough to do that, but I'll post any greater-than-24hr absences in the future, sorry.


Got my post up.

And remember Rodolpho: The only point is to point your eyes towards things yuo may not have considered. I understand that a wizard's spells are very personal and should remain largely in-theme.

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