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First I want to take a moment and tell you guys at Paizo thank you for producing a fine product with the Bestiary. I have been spending the last day or so finally getting to look over it. One of my players had been mumbling about how late it was getting here but to be honest, I would prefer quality of product over a deadline. Craftsmanship takes time and in a world of instant gratification, we seldom get the time needed to insure products are polished the way they need to be. Anyway, I digress...
With the assumptions; the Bestiary has to conform with OGL, and is written to speak plainly about critters in general as well as restricted to page counts, etc, I would like for you to consider the following if there comes an opportunity for making a Bestiary, part 2.
I want these, therefore I am speaking up about it and would like to hear others thoughts as well. The intention is to hopefully help stir creativity in the exhausted Paizo employees and give you guys a little insight to our needs as GMs.
The regular races (elves,dwarves,humans...)to be included next time maybe with examples of commoner, warrior, noble and adepts for us to use at a glance. Often times at the gaming table it would be nice to flip to a page and use common stats if a fight was to break out at the bar, or on the rare occasion the group's rogue stole from that elven shopkeeper.
I read somewhere James Jacobs mentioned all non OGL critters were subsituted with equivilents. I have some gaps in my monster lists I would like to see eventually handled.
Like...
What about animated traps? How would that work? (CR of Creature + EL of trap sort of like a template?) Can Paizo produce something like a living spell?
Can we get critters from the Adventure Paths added in at some point?
I like the angels and demons but can we get some Golarion flavored outer planar types like Herald bards of Cayden, Slag elementals of Torag, or even fiendish bullettes of Rovagug. The point being I would like to see creatures with some sort of hook to the mythos already published. I love when I can bring up a historical point in my home game. I have used games to teach my daughter about Greek mythos with stories of Madeusa or Hercules and the hydra. Learning though play is the best way to get a point across to children. I would like more creatures from literary references. Grendel from Beowulf, the Jaberwock, titans even? What happened to them anyway? You also have an entire area in the campaign book with a scifi/sorcery feel. Creatures for that type of game will need to be considered as well. I know I ask too much, but I have been spoiled by you guys. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for your time and I will continue to throw down ideas as they come to me.
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The regular races (elves,dwarves,humans...)to be included next time maybe with examples of commoner, warrior, noble and adepts for us to use at a glance. Often times at the gaming table it would be nice to flip to a page and use common stats if a fight was to break out at the bar, or on the rare occasion the group's rogue stole from that elven shopkeeper.
I believe both this and this will supply lots of base race NPCs (112 in the GMG at least, 'dozens' in the NPC Guide)
Creative Director
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I believe both this and this will supply lots of base race NPCs (112 in the GMG at least, 'dozens' in the NPC Guide)The regular races (elves,dwarves,humans...)to be included next time maybe with examples of commoner, warrior, noble and adepts for us to use at a glance. Often times at the gaming table it would be nice to flip to a page and use common stats if a fight was to break out at the bar, or on the rare occasion the group's rogue stole from that elven shopkeeper.
Correct. Those two products will really help bulk up the need for a "Bestiary of NPCs" type book. A Bestiary is stronger, I think, when it DOESN'T get mired down in providing stat blocks for specific types of NPCs.
Of course, any of our modules and adventure paths are also filled to the rim with examples of NPCs. Just because they're in one adventure doesn't mean you can't use them in another.
Banshee...
Dire animal template..."a pack of ravenous camels comes into view through the thick of the blowing sand, spitting and frothing..."
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I believe both this and this will supply lots of base race NPCs (112 in the GMG at least, 'dozens' in the NPC Guide)Correct. Those two products will really help bulk up the need for a "Bestiary of NPCs" type book. A Bestiary is stronger, I think, when it DOESN'T get mired down in providing stat blocks for specific types of NPCs.
Of course, any of our modules and adventure paths are also filled to the rim with examples of NPCs. Just because they're in one adventure doesn't mean you can't use them in another.
I see your point and am glad you have thought of the alternatives. Thank you gentlemen.
I would like to see more Pathfinder campaign setting specific type critters next time. I realize this was a core book and needed to cover the basics and get everyone on the same page. Thank you again for all the hard work you do.
TEMPLATES
Sorry to yell, but as a GM I love templates, let's me make monsters that don't quite match what they look like for those small fraction of players who memorize the Bestiary so they can remember hitpoints and ac and etc.
Examples :
Energy aligned Templates : Frost, Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Electric, Acid, Sonic, etc. Something that modifies special attacks or DR, beefs up defenses or speed, etc.
Environment aligned Templates : Arctic, Plains, Forest, Swamp, Mountain, Underground, Desert, Aquatic. A lizard from a swamp is much different from a plains or a desert or a forest. :)
Alignment Templates : Most creatures are neutral, but some might be touched with the powers of Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos.
Subtype Templates : Taurs (Ala making Centaurs or Dracotaurs from a template), plant (ala Woodling from MM3), draconic (ala from Draconomicon), Fey, Reptile, Amphibian, etc.
The nice thing about templates is they are like a force multiplier. Instead of creating one new creature, you are creating one new creature for each and every creature in both Bestiary's. So, if you put just 20 Templates in the bestiary, and there are 400 creatures between both, then you have actually created 8000 creatures. :)
MORE SENTIENT/SOCIALIZED CREATURES
I've always preferred sentient opponents over dumb animals. Or even smart animals. Tengu, Orcs, Bugbears, Centaurs, Demons and Devils, all of them have plans and culture and complex social structures and are just way more interesting than "Oh, you get attacked by a bulette".
SPECIFIC MONSTERS
Neutral Dragons : I'd love to see some neutral aligned Dragons in the Bestiary II. I'm pretty sure you can't use the Jewel dragons, but if you could find some other Neutrals to base things off of. Maybe chromatically colored dragons? Dragons with metal scales but colored? For example, a neutral dragon that has cold breath might have metal scales but be colored a pale blue/white that shines like anodized aluminum. One that breathes fire might have a metallic red/orange/yellow sheen to his scales. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are people who can come up with better options on this board.
Forest Guardians : This would probably be best as a template, but it doesn't fit in my templates above. Basically a way to create sentient magical creatures from normal animals who are tied to the forest. Give them tree stride and the ability to sense people in their forests.
Greater Dryad : I love dryads, but the traditional limitations imposed on them in D&D makes them all but unusable for anything other than rigidly imposed story lines. They can't leave their tree's immediate environment for any time at all. A Greater Dryad would be tied to a forest, not a specific tree, and be able to leave that forest for extended periods of time (up to a lunar cycle for example) to pursue her aims (hiring adventurers or tracking down someone who damaged her forest for example).
Enough for now, I'll post more as I think of it.
I assume that updated stats for the marut, the kolyarut, and the zelekhut would be inevitable.. *ducks*
Edit: Seriously though, I would like to see inevitables updated.
Sidhe, and all things fae.
I would love to have a wider variety of fae creatures, especially from the unseelie side of the year. It would be awesome to have an Unseelie Sidhe, mounted on a flesh eating stag, riding down PCs, with hounds made of blown autumn leaves. I'd especially like to see the bean sídhe amonst them :D Non off this Banshee's are undead nonsense...fae all the way.
Robots. Maybe I'm the only one, but I could use some robot stats.
Also, I understand it's probably not feasible at the moment, but I look forward to the day when Paizo has the resources to commission original art for each of its books. I heard people talking excitedly about the kobold illustration in the bestiary and was ever-so-slightly disappointed to see Enga snarling back at me when I checked it out. I loved Enga, and my players hate her, but she never struck me as the iconic kobold :P
Just curious, where is Enga from?
Robots. Maybe I'm the only one, but I could use some robot stats.
I could go for a range of constructs. The golems of DnD fill a very specific level story range. It would be cool to have a wider range of constructed badguys, from grave guarding statues through to animate war machines, or spy drones.
Robots could be a cool group within that .
Enga Keckvia, the kobold barbarian from Rise of the Runelords: Fortress of the Stone Giants. She's kind of a comic relief fight as I read it, though I beefed her up when my players fought her. She's a really fun little character, she just seems altogether too plucky to be the iconic sniveling kobold. Again, I understand Paizo's resources as far as art goes are somewhat limited, so it's not big deal, but in a perfect world it'd be awesome if the iconic kobold and the iconic hobgoblin were given as much love and attention as the iconic barbarian and the iconic bard :)Just curious, where is Enga from?
Also, I understand it's probably not feasible at the moment, but I look forward to the day when Paizo has the resources to commission original art for each of its books. I heard people talking excitedly about the kobold illustration in the bestiary and was ever-so-slightly disappointed to see Enga snarling back at me when I checked it out. I loved Enga, and my players hate her, but she never struck me as the iconic kobold :P
Ah, I'm only at the end of the Skinsaw Murders. Kobold barbarian huh? Neat.
Oh, Hook Horrors, where art thou?
Gah, I suppose that's spoilers. >_< I always do that! Anyone know how to edit a post and add a spoiler tag? :P
I think you've got an hour after you post to edit it. BBCodes are below the text box. No worries from me though. I'm the GM, just bad at reading ahead.. :-)
Stupid post monster..
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Yep, if you want to use a hook horror, grell, dire corbey, of flumph you're going to have to roll up your sleeves and DIY.
As for Templates, you can look for Green Ronin's Advanced Beastiary (it's a bit hard to find, but boy is it worth it!). It's for 3.5, but with a little elbow grease, you shouldn't have trouble adapting it to PFRPG. Absolutely great for extra spice... Oh, that big boggard wasn't just a boggard, he was a FUNGAL boggard with 2 levels of barbarian... awww crap!
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Creative Director
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Yep, if you want to use a hook horror, grell, dire corbey, of flumph you're going to have to roll up your sleeves and DIY.
As for Templates, you can look for Green Ronin's Advanced Beastiary (it's a bit hard to find, but boy is it worth it!). It's for 3.5, but with a little elbow grease, you shouldn't have trouble adapting it to PFRPG. Absolutely great for extra spice... Oh, that big boggard wasn't just a boggard, he was a FUNGAL boggard with 2 levels of barbarian... awww crap!
Actually, dire corbies and flumphs ARE open content, thanks to the Tome of Horrors.
The grell is not.
Basically, any "classic" monster that got into 3rd edition's Monster Manual II or the Monsters of Faerun monster books fell into a gap between the Mostly Open Content Monster Manual and the advent of the Tome of Horrors at about the time when the Fiend Folio came out. Monsters in those two books (MM2 and MoF), unfortunately, ended up in a sort of "black hole" of closed content. This includes things like the hook horror, the grell, the bullywug, and more—monsters that are long-time favorites. In some cases (like the bullywug) the concept is "generic" enough (frog men!) that we felt okay doing Pathfinder (and open) variants of the monsters (the boggard!). In others (like the peryton or the banshee or the leucrotta or the linnorms), the monsters were based on real-world myth so we could rebuild them with different rules.
But in cases like the hook horror and the grell... they're cut off. Which is sad... but not crippling. There's an infinite number of other monsters waiting in the open content books that are already out or yet to be released in the future.
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Actually, dire corbies and flumphs ARE open content, thanks to the Tome of Horrors.
The grell is not.
D'oh! Boy that was stupid of me, I completely forgot about them being open content... thus our big drive to include them on the Save the Flumph thread...
I guess that means I can no longer use my DiCHEAD avatar. (Dire Corby Health, Education, and Defense Society Spokesfowl)
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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TEMPLATES
Subtype Templates : Taurs (Ala making Centaurs or Dracotaurs from a template), plant (ala Woodling from MM3), draconic (ala from Draconomicon), Fey, Reptile, Amphibian, etc.Neutral Dragons : I'd love to see some neutral aligned Dragons in the Bestiary II.
+1
Oh, Hook Horrors, where art thou?
-1 Hated these mods, sold every mini I ever got from the box that was a HH
Add another vote to the "CAN I HAZ TEMPLATES!!!" roster....The Advanced Bestiary is a ton of gold on my shelf and having a Pathfinder themed version with new and awesome leavings dripping from it would make Fakey a happy boy.
Silverthorn's "Book of Templates" can be strongly recommended, too.
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Nah; there's still a flind in there! He wasn't cut for space at all!The flind is open content via Tome of Horrors, I believe. There was originally going to be one in Pathfinder #19's Howl of the Carrion King, but we cut it for space.
Because some bastard overwrote his adventure.
As I remember, that bastard won an award for Howl of the Carrion King. Now he is trying to write for Pathfinder Society. I hope that bastard doesnt try overwriting with Mr. Frost, or he might just get rejected and stuck with a publishing job...
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But in cases like the hook horror and the grell... they're cut off. Which is sad... but not crippling.C'mon James, the Tunnel Terror is just begging to be created!
;-)
I remember the old hook horror, but now when you mention it to me all I can think about is Nick Logue's "The Hook Mountain Massacre" and the awful dreams I had for weeks after reading it.
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Definitely more Oni... the poor Ogre Mage looks lonely there by himself. :)
I'd also agree that more sentient races are a plus, especially variant planetouched. More templates as well.
I don't think there's any bloody danger of the titan, hippogriff, and other classics being left out for good. :)
I'd love to see some sentient plantmen, more animal men, and the like... lower-level basic constructs as well.
Leprechauns would be nice...
Future Bestiaries need to mine the older 3.5 era Pathfinder supplements for stuff like the Nosferatu from Curse of the Crimson Throne.
The world needs more Max Schreck.
I think Classic Horrors Revisited will have some good news re that.
for more templates á la "Advanced Bestiary"
But in cases like the hook horror and the grell... they're cut off. Which is sad... but not crippling. There's an infinite number of other monsters waiting in the open content books that are already out or yet to be released in the future.
Yep. I'm totally looking forward to once again seeing the Barbed-Hanger Terror and the Brainbeaktapus. *not-so sly wink and nudge*
I'd love to see the Githyanki/Githzerai represented - if not in name (based on OGL issues) than at least in spirit. Same goes for all the Slaad.
Annis (Hag)
Neutral Dragons.
Daemons.
Rules for symbionts, grafts, etc.