Hi Players,
I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition because i just didn't liked the way it played. It was my first RPG and so I don't have any comparson experiances. I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc and boardgames, so i hoped with 4th edition to find a new hobby, but this didn't work out. Now i heard someone talk about pathfinder and i was wondering why you think i should pick it up.
I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons, so can I use the system for this? How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer? And how do you suggest i "learn" how to play this game, without the option of someone else teaching me... since i would be the one starting off in the gaming group...
Hope you will react to my questions, thanks if you do!
Crimlock
Hi Players,
I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition because i just didn't liked the way it played. It was my first RPG and so I don't have any comparson experiances. I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc and boardgames, so i hoped with 4th edition to find a new hobby, but this didn't work out. Now i heard someone talk about pathfinder and i was wondering why you think i should pick it up.
I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons, so can I use the system for this? How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer? And how do you suggest i "learn" how to play this game, without the option of someone else teaching me... since i would be the one starting off in the gaming group...
Hope you will react to my questions, thanks if you do!
I know it's hard, but it'd be helpful to know what you didn't like about 4e. Pathfinder is effectively 3rd edition, only with some rules tweaked to reflect nearly a decade of learning what works and what doesn't, fun-wise.
In a nutshell in my opinion the biggest difference between 3rd and 4th editions is that 4th is so heavily balanced that classes, abilities, and spells are all pretty much the same. A fighter gets an ability that lets him move someone two squares if he hits. A wizard gets a spell that lets him move someone two squares if he hits. I exaggerate a bit, but that's the summary. In 3rd edition, each class is very different from the others, abilities are completely different, and spells are very, very complicated. A barbarian can rage, which boosts his stats really high. A rogue gets bonus damage when flanking. A wizard can go invisible, fly, create a wall of iron, make a fireball, create illusionary duplicates of himself, and so on. 3rd edition offers a lot more different components for you to build your party and combats with. That may be to your liking, or may not. 3rd edition is plain and simple a more complicated system. Dramatically.
That doesn't make 3rd edition harder necessarily though. It just makes it take longer to master. Learning isn't bad. To pick it up, grab the PDF of the core rulebook ($10). Skim over the classes and races, and the character creation section. From there, get a few players together (I play with a total of one other guy usually) and give them a summary of what the classes and races are like. Help them build characters. Grab a low-level adventure (there are a lot of cheap ones) and stumble through it. Starting low, your players and you will learn things like spells slowly, as they gain access to them. It shouldn't be overwhelming if you start at 1st level.
As always, you can ask questions here.
Well, 4th can be fun and 3rd doesn't have to and it works in the other way as well. It really depends on with whom do you play and what flavour does the group bring to the game.
I've come in therms with fourth and currently we're playing both :D
I agree with Anguish on most points. I don't think Pathfinder is difficult to learn, but I also came from D&D 3, and pathfinder is simply an adjustment of complicated rules to simpler ones.
You will still have the same "stats"
You will still have feats, spells, abilities.
Your skills, if I remember correctly, are close to the same as well.
Magic items and spells are done a bit differently, but nothing too dramatic.
If you have played other RPGs in the past, especially any based on the D20 system, then you shouldn't have any problems at all with Pathfinder.
Don't judge D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder (which is compatible with all 3.5 materials) by your experience with 4E. I have played 3.5 since it came out and love it. I played 4E once and will likely never play it again. Baldure's Gate is 2nd Edition rules. The Neverwinter Nights line of games is 3rd Edition (I think just the original) with 3.5 in the later games. Both of those systems are completely different from 4E.
If you are used to playing Bladure's Gate and any of the other D&D games you will probably be able to pick up 3.5 and Pathfinder pretty quickly.
D&D is generally meant to be played with 5 or more individuals (counting 1 as the DM). It would not be impossible to play with only 2 or 3 people but most modules would have to be scaled back and tailored to the 1 or 2 man party. It is possible though and a 1 or 2 man party can make for a fun adventure (I have played in a couple). If you are interested in a larger group you might try looking for local hobby shops that sell a lot of gaming RPG books and card games like Magic: The Gathering and such, they are usually a good place to find some like minded individuals to game with and sometimes hold public gaming sessions at the store.
As for the length of a game, you will probably want to limit yourself at first (to give the new DM a chance to get the hang of it). A gaming session (usually 1 or 2 per week) can last anywhere between 4 hours and 12+ hours depending on your group, your schedule, your DM and your ability to continue thinking coherently after 12 hours of gaming. I would say it will be hard to get much done in a session that is less than 4 hours though.
As for learning the game, you just have to read the books. Cover to cover and post any questions online since you don't have someone to teach you. I would try to find some local hobby shops and hopefully an experienced gamer who would be willing to teach you and possibly game with you.
If you are interested in taking a look at the PF stuff before you commit to buying, take a look at these sites they should help you out.
The Pathfinder Reference Document (PRD): http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
The Pathfinder SRD: http://www.pathfindersrd.com/
And you obviously already know where the PF forum is.
Good luck and good gaming.
Third and Fourth are pretty much the same game at the core. Combat, Feats, and Skills work the same in both systems. The difference is Basic Attacks, Powers and Feats.
3e Feats were more powerful than 4e Feats. 3e "Basic Attacks" (anytime you used a regular attack) was made more colorful with 4e Powers (really, kind of like an attack with a 3e Feat all the time). The combat systems are near identical. Pathfinder is more 3e with tweaks, as noted above.
Regarding the playing with 2 players, D&D has never really been a "solo" game. You either need to play with 4 characters (by 4 players or with 2 each). 4e is a bit easier on prep time, IMHO, and is more "math" based. 3e is a bit vague on how to match up monsters with characters, more "feel" than "math" based. Both can be scaled, but are still evaluated for 4-5 characters.
If you're looking for something more scalable, Hero System (Hero Games) and GURPS (Steve Jackson Games) can handle any number of people. However, GURPS has a lower learning curve and costs less than Hero (6e is going to cost about $70 for the books, $50 for the PDFs). Both are more realistic, Hero is more math based.
Another option would be RuneQuest (Mongoose Publishing), Basic RolePlaying (BRP, Chaosium), and Fudge (Hero System light, free). I'm sure there is more, but this is what I can think of off hand.
Hi Thierry!
It sounds like you need a basic introduction to tabletop roleplaying. It's a fun and engrossing hobby, and there are a lot of good choices for what to play, but it's not very much at all like video games or board games you may've played before.
I'd recommend you start from the very beginning, by reading about what roleplaying is all about and how it works. Here's a good article based on a few minutes' googling:
Really Basic Intro to RPGs (pdf)
If you have any questions please just ask. :']
Hi Players,
I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition because i just didn't liked the way it played. It was my first RPG and so I don't have any comparson experiances. I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc and boardgames, so i hoped with 4th edition to find a new hobby, but this didn't work out. Now i heard someone talk about pathfinder and i was wondering why you think i should pick it up.
I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons, so can I use the system for this? How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer? And how do you suggest i "learn" how to play this game, without the option of someone else teaching me... since i would be the one starting off in the gaming group...
Hope you will react to my questions, thanks if you do!
Crimlock
My fist regular dnd game was with 3 people. My friend, and his older brother. It is a little challenging as the game is meant for 5-7 people. But you can have the dungeon master run a pc as well. The standard need and expectation of a DnD adventure is, Warrior type (fighter, barbarian, paladin, monk), Healer (cleric, druid, paladin), skill based character, (bard, rogue, ranger), and caster (sorceror, wizard). I would recommend then that you guys play some of the more versetile classes since you will be low on numbers. Paladins, druids, and clerics are good for that as they provide both a healer and can be front liners. Alternatively each player can play 2 pc's. In that case you only need a group of 3 people to play (dm and 2 players each playing 2 pcs.
A 'game' takes as long as you wish it to. It is a story. It can be just a quick sequence, or it can last for months if not years (over many sessions). I would say a typical session is 3-5 hours, but it's up to the group really. Just have the dm break up the adventures into pieces that your group is happy taking on in a single session. My group tends to do 4-5 encounters (both combat and roleplay) per session. Sometimes we go longer if everyone has time.
In terms of how to 'learn' to play, I would recommend starting with low level published adventures, it makes the burdeon on the DM less since you are all just starting out. Get a copy of the rules and sit down with your group and play. Give them a read ahead of time, but dont worry about knowing every rule. You will make 'mistakes' you will misinterpret rules, and silly things will likely happen as a result. Dont worry about it, just play. Eventually you and your group will get it right. You might want to start off with something like crypt of the everflame.
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderModules/pathfinderRPG /v5748btpy89c9
Third and Fourth are pretty much the same game at the core.
That's not true. There are some similarities, but the core is quite different.
Combat, Feats, and Skills work the same in both systems.
To me 4e seems like mostly identical classes with superficial differences. I mean, the powers are named differently, and what little flavour text the game has is different, too, but it's still all the same. Pretty much like stuff like Warcraft (the first game to carry that name). Sure, it's humans and orcs, but they just look differently, they play the same. That's how 4e combat seems to me.
Pathfinder combat is more StarCraft, or maybe Heroes of Might and Magic V.
And skills: In Pathfinder, you have a lot more freedom in your skill selection. Much more opportunity for making your character unique. And it doesn't subscribe to the motto that if it's not good to make you better at murdering things, it shouldn't be in the game, especially the skills.
But anyway.
Hi Players,
You don't greet us Game Masters, eh? You're rude, mister four thousand!
(just kidding)
I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc and boardgames, so i hoped with 4th edition to find a new hobby, but this didn't work out.
Well, Pathfinder can be a lot like Baldur's Gate. Not in the way that it's a single-player game, but in the way that it can drag you in deep, that it will enable you to experience some great stories, in the way that you can be a great hero or an infamous villain, and the choice is yours.
I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons, so can I use the system for this?
Well, to be honest with you here, the game is built more for 4 players plus a Game Master.
It can work, but you have to make some adjustments in the general assumptions.
You could, of course, let each player have two characters, but that won't let them concentrate as much on each.
If you want to stick to two normal characters, don't forget that some of the classical roles might not be filled. The most basic party set-up consists of a fighter (or other warrior-like character), a cleric (or other character decent at healing), a rogue (or someone else who is good with a lot of skills) and a wizard (or someone else who can kill great amounts of enemies at once with magic).
You don't have to go fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard. Many classes can fill more than one role, like a paladin being a warrior who can heal, and you don't necessarily need all roles.
Just remember that some challenges get harder if you don't have a specialist to deal with them.
How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer?
It takes as long as you want it to take. We occasionally have had sessions that only were an hour or two. We also had sessions that were 10 hours or longer.
And how do you suggest i "learn" how to play this game, without the option of someone else teaching me
Well, the best way to learn is to join a standing group, with the second best being having some people who have played before.
If you can't have the real thing, join a play-by-post game on the boards here. It's not the same as having the guys sitting at the table, but it can help.
Get tips here. Watch one of those educational videos (i.e. The Gamers ;-))
Read one of the introductions about RPG. Or read ten.
Watch some movie that features people roleplaying in it - but ignore the really cheesy stuff in there, because roleplaying is only like that if you want it to be like that.
I suggest looking up Dr. Demento, Dead Wive's Watchtower, or just Dr. Demento D&D.
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Hi Players,
I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition because i just didn't liked the way it played. It was my first RPG and so I don't have any comparson experiances. I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc and boardgames, so i hoped with 4th edition to find a new hobby, but this didn't work out. Now i heard someone talk about pathfinder and i was wondering why you think i should pick it up.
I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons, so can I use the system for this? How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer? And how do you suggest i "learn" how to play this game, without the option of someone else teaching me... since i would be the one starting off in the gaming group...
Hope you will react to my questions, thanks if you do!
Crimlock
Thierry, do you have a gaming store nearby? If so, check their gaming schedule/calendar. You might find that there is a Pathfinder game already being played there locally that you can join, even if just temporarily, to get a feel for the game rules and playability. If its to your liking, not only can you likely purchase the necessary books to start your home game, but you may also want to stay active in the store group. You may also find some interested people from the store that could join your home game and increase your numbers. In my home games, the most fun has been had with 4-6 players (plus the GM). We have played with as few as 2 (combat can become troublesome and over-powering) and as many as 10 (combat becomes burdensome because of the numbers involved).
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Another idea is to find "Dungeons and Dragons for Dummies" in the ever-popular "____ for Dummies" line of books (yes there actually is one!)
The key to note is that the book is written for 3rd edition rules pre-Pathfinder updates; so while some of the specific rules and mechanics may be slightly different the model of the D20 3rd edition is still applicable, and overall, the concept of RPGs and how to play them as it's taught via that book is truly rules-independant; and transcends any edition based nuances. So it can teach you how to basically play the game - and then the Pathfinder RPG book PDF can teach you the actual specifics.
Liken it to the difference between reading a book on the concept of playing football, then getting a playbook of a teams offensive and defensive strategy
Robert
Good point, Robert. I've given that book to a few new players in the past, and they found it helpful.
To me 4e seems like mostly identical classes with superficial differences. I mean, the powers are named differently, and what little flavour text the game has is different, too, but it's still all the same. Pretty much like stuff like Warcraft (the first game to carry that name).
Thats exactly how I felt about the core books which I sold on ebay myself. I still have the Realms books. I suppose I should sell that too
Although, I suppose I would feel bad about taking someone's money for that junk
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1) I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition
2) I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc
3) I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons
4) How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer
1) 4E is more like WoW/EQ than other RPG games.
2) Baldur's Gate was based on 3E and 3.5E game rules.
3) Playing with 1 or 2 others will be hard and a very different game, but doable. I never play with less than 5 people if I can help it.
4) You could do it in as little as 60 to 90 minutes, but since it is an ongoing game there is no upper limit. Typical games are 4 to 6 hours.
1) I just sold my books of D&D 4th edition
2) I did always loved the baldur's gate games on the pc
3) I play games with just 1 or 2 other persons
4) How long does a game take, 3 to 4 hours, or longer
1) 4E is more like WoW/EQ than other RPG games.
2) Baldur's Gate was based on 3E and 3.5E game rules.
3) Playing with 1 or 2 others will be hard and a very different game, but doable. I never play with less than 5 people if I can help it.
4) You could do it in as little as 60 to 90 minutes, but since it is an ongoing game there is no upper limit. Typical games are 4 to 6 hours.
Baldur's Gate series along with Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment was AD&D actually. Neverwinter Nights 1&2 was 3.0/3.5.
I have always played/GMed with 2-4 other people, and smaller groups work just fine as long as you adjust what they encounter to fit a smaller party.
Should you pick it up: I'm going to throw in an unqualified yes! :) Unless you simply don't have the cash, merely being curious is reason enough to pick up the PF core rulebook. If you've played and enjoyed Baldur's Gate, you'll find that while there are notable differences, PFRPG is much closer to that than it is to 4th Edition.
Best way to learn the system: Generally, find a GM willing to take on a new player. Some gaming stores even have a "new players only" game. But if you're going to be the one starting your local gaming scene, the best way to learn it is seriously to just read through the book. You could skip the extensive descriptions for feats, spells, equipment and magic items on the first run through; but otherwise, the sequence of the chapters is generally appropriate. (Nothing wrong with skipping around, but you don't want to accidentally skip sections.)
Playing with a small group: There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I've played many very fun 1-on-1 games, even. There's the concept of a "challenge rating" which is intended to give you an idea of an encounter's survivability, and this is balanced for a 4-player group... but for two players, just use weaker encounters and everything works fine. The general feel of the game is different, of course. A lone wizard is frail and has no healing magic, so will likely look for ways to avoid combat entirely. A lone fighter will spend much of his wealth on healing potions, or perhaps simply take a lot of long rests. "Normal" parties favor specialization, but with only 1 or 2 characters, the jack-of-all-trades approach might be better. Bards, clerics and druids will probably do best. Others have commented on the option to let a player run more than one character, but for a brand new group still learning the game I recommend against this. You can run one party member yourself as the GM (a party NPC, or "GMPC") but again, I'd advise against it while you're still getting used to running games; it can distract you, and it can also make it very hard to be impartial.
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Playing with a small group: There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I've played many very fun 1-on-1 games, even.
This is true and really the number of players depends on the DM running the game. The DM can make a 1 on 1 game an enjoyable experience immersing the player in a fantastic tale, or a DM could party wipe 6 people with a badly designed encounter. I have run a very good "horror game" with only 2 players and myself. I would say that too many people is worse then having less then 4 players.
Pathfinder has many layers to it and don't feel you need to know everything to play. Pathfinder core rules and the Beastiary if you buy nothing else will give you years of fun.
Luck with your hobby, it's a good one,
S.
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Before investing in PF I would at least advise checking out the free online Pathfinder Reference Document (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/)
But I would also suggest checking out some other RPGs that have a free quick start or full rules. Go to www.DriveThruRPG.com and click on Free Stuff on the left hand side and then filter by Product Type>Roleplaying>Core Rulebooks, in fact here is a direct link:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?filters=0_0_2140_0_0&free=1
For example there is a Castles & Crusades Quick Start:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=28543&it=1&a mp;filters=0_0_2140_0_0&free=1
or how about D6 Fantasy? (there are sci fi and adventure variants as well)
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=20448&it=1&a mp;filters=0_0_2140_0_0&free=1