That sounds like a plan. We don't want him to burn out before AP 37: Buxom Elven Beauties From The Abyss (with no pocket dimensions included).
Is this the one that comes with a sealed art companion in a nondescript brown paper-bag?
That sounds like a plan. We don't want him to burn out before AP 37: Buxom Elven Beauties From The Abyss (with no pocket dimensions included).And once you see daylight at the end of the catch-up tunnel. Let James have a vacation and a few weekends. Burnout is a terrible thing.A nice long vacation for James is pretty much the top of my wish list for the next half year.
-Lisa
That has been done though.
|
You are entitled to your opinions about each AP, but personally, CoT is my group's favorite since RotRL. I guess one difference for us is that we have all been theater/improv people at some point in our lives and the sheer amount of the adventures that is left up to the PC's actions is the cause of a major geek-out.
Since your party likes combat so much, you could add in your own little "set-piece adventures" to hold them over until the next book comes out. Instead of giving story XP just convert that into a side-quest.
I'm with Danflor. CoT is the first adventure path since RotRL that has REALLY grabbed my attention. I like the fact it's not completely combat oriented and really has some neat mechanics for a city-based adventure. The other paths have been good, but this is the second I've really wanted to run as-is (instead of just scavenging from for my own adventures).
Everybody's entitled to their opinions though; I just wanted to add a little counterbalance.
As for pocket dimensions, well, too much of a good thing can quickly become a bad thing (remember the glut of half dragons in the early days of 3.0). But the ‘pocket dimensions’ in Second Darkness, LoF and CoT have such a different feel, concept and (I imagine) play experience, that they’re hardly alike, except with some high level meta-game thinking.
I can see the criticism. After all, one thing you don't want to do is be too repetitive in the adventure designing tricks you use.
On the other hand, I think they're mainly trying to present interesting adventuring sites that wouldn't make much sense in the regular parts of the campaign setting. Frankly, I'd rather have oddball locations with absurd physical qualities sealed off in pocket dimensions than try to pass them off as places someone would have built where the real campaign physical laws rule.
The rest of your post was just your subjective opinion. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you might just be speaking for yourself.
??? I think he made it abundantly clear that he was speaking for himself.
The rest of your post was just your subjective opinion. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you might just be speaking for yourself.??? I think he made it abundantly clear that he was speaking for himself.
My conversational writing style confused you. There was a subtext to my words that was designed to be non-confrontational to be the Original Poster.
My conversational writing style confused you. There was a subtext to my words that was designed to be non-confrontational to be the Original Poster.
:D Quite possibly, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, actually.
The subtext wouldn't happen to be something close to: "You're wrong, and don't ever ever criticize Paizo because they're so awesome and can do no wrong!" that we unfortunately see crop up on the boards by certain... 'fans'... every now and then, would it? I hope not! :)
:) :) :) <- just in case I need more.
It would upset retail sellers is why. They have to balance brick and mortar sells with PDF sells, if Paizo started letting the PDF out months in front of streetdate some would be very upset
My conversational writing style confused you. There was a subtext to my words that was designed to be non-confrontational to be the Original Poster.:D Quite possibly, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, actually.
The subtext wouldn't happen to be something close to: "You're wrong, and don't ever ever criticize Paizo because they're so awesome and can do no wrong!" that we unfortunately see crop up on the boards by certain... 'fans'... every now and then, would it? I hope not! :)
:) :) :) <- just in case I need more.
Nah.. I hate fanboism too.
What I didn't like is how confrontational and aggressive he was.
So.. yeah.. it annoyed me. Not because of the content but the tone and the language. And maybe I was passive aggressively polite in response.
But it was fair feedback whether or not I agreed with it. And Paizo does make mistakes sometimes.
In any case:
:)
Creative Director
|
Here's something that annoys me; if Pathfinder 27 is done, edited, etc., why can't Paizo just charge us this month, give us access to the PDF, then ship the physical product out next month?
Yeah, as mentioned above, and as much as we LOVE our subscribers, we also have to keep distribution and bookstores and gaming stores and other sites in mind. We don't want to "Scoop" them by selling the product earlier than they can sell it... that's just poor business practice and a good way to shoot yourself in the foot.
we LOVE our subscribers
Aw shucks! Thanks!
|
I just wanted to pipe in and say that I'm completely thrilled about the idea of running this adventure and I've already made a comment to my players that I think the play is probably the best thing you guys have ever done.
Of course I'm also nice and eager since we have a guy who is talking about playing a paladin or Araden, I am not sure whether I hope more that he ends up cast as the buffonery paladin of Araden or if he gets to be one of the other roles and has to mock a character who worships his god.
|
|
I just wanted to pipe in and say that I'm completely thrilled about the idea of running this adventure and I've already made a comment to my players that I think the play is probably the best thing you guys have ever done.
Of course I'm also nice and eager since we have a guy who is talking about playing a paladin or Araden, I am not sure whether I hope more that he ends up cast as the buffonery paladin of Araden or if he gets to be one of the other roles and has to mock a character who worships his god.
darn method acting paladins...
You are entitled to your opinions about each AP, but personally, CoT is my group's favorite since RotRL...
Too true. It's hard not to take some opinions bandied about with about a 20 pound bag of salt (opposed to a mere grain). I know a lot of folks are SUPER passionate about their games and want everything exactly the way they want it now, but we're never going to be able to provide that to everyone. And thankfully we don't have to, as the game we offer is not just made to be customizable but encourages, even demands it.
It's been said a lot around here, but it's true, making a published requires work requires input and cooperation between writers, developers, editors, and GMs. Just as if the starting words don't satisfy the developer they get changed, and if the developed words don't work for the editor they get changed, if the printed product doesn't do something a GM really wants, they have the ability (and, I suspect from their own groups the expectation) to change it to entertain their players.
I can already hear the argument, "Well, I'm paying for an adventure, why should I have to do anything?" In short, because we're not coming to your house, interviewing your players to find out what they like and how they play, and then running a game for your group. At a lengthier pace, Pathfinder never claims to give you everything. It gives you a TON, but everything? No way - it's simply not possible in this medium. We're no telling you what voices to read text in, we're not telling you the weather or time of year, we're not pinpointing the starting position of every creature, stray smell, or texture in every dungeon. That's all left for the GM to add, develop, accentuate, customize, and roleplay out as they please. And really, so is every word that exists on the printed pages: it's your game, change whatever you want. You already need to make a thousand and one choices as GM, why not add one or two more. Think you shouldn't have to? Well that's kind of between you and your players, but I would hope GMs are interested first and foremost in providing their guests with entertainment and a reason to come back next week. And if tinkering with this here and that there leads you down a different path, or means that you're not using 100% of the published adventure, well having 99%, 95%, 80% (heck even 40%, 25&, or 2% depending on how creative you get) of the work done for you still ain't bad.
Really an Adventure Path is just a story. Everyone can't be expected to fall in love with EVERY story. Even uniformly great ones. Heck, I think everyone here would agree the three Lord of the Rings movies are all awesome, but damn if I don't doze off on than first one every time. Great stuff, but had I the keys to editing both, I might make some chops. If you wouldn't great, that's all you. But with Pathfinder, you do have the keys to the editing booth and can make all the tinkers you want.
And while I'm on my soap box here. I challenge all the armchair GMs and game designers to put their dice where their mouths are. If you want something changed in a published adventure, guess what: it's too late for us to do anything. That means it all up to you Robin! Want something different, change it however you want, run it, see what your players thought (heck, even tell them you tinkered with it and take the credit you deserve!), and THEN post on here telling us how your changes worked. I'm going to tell you right now, every person here (from employees to other readers) are going to be way more interested in and put way more credence on the opinion of a creative GM who saw something they thought wouldn't work for their group, came up with a cool solution and that played out in an exciting way, and then posted the epic tale. Folks learn from that - we as designers included - and get ideas to make future adventures even better. And it beats the heck out of the sophomoric brand of posts to the effect of "Carbuncles are dumb. No more carbuncle adventures!" Well thanks for that insight Zatoichi.
And if you don't have any ideas or need help (we all do sometimes) wandering on here and saying this, that, or the other thing doesn't meet with you or your specific group's approval is a little like wandering into the ice cream store and screaming that you hate vanilla. Turns out we have THOUSANDS of great GMs on here and this forum gives you a direct line to some of the best game designers in the world. Don't like something, ask for suggestions on how to change it, I promise you you'll get dozens - some likely from Paizo's owner, publisher, editor in chief, lead designer, bestselling authors, folks who have been in gaming since before there was tabletop roleplaying, and so on. So want a solution? Throw us the facts and I'm telling ya, you'll get something awesome back.
And a quick word on the business side of things. We truly do love you guys (especially you vagrant-poet) but really, come on, do you honestly think we're ever going to let the world at large in on every closed door decision, nuance of our publishing cycle, or business choice? No way! No. Way. We share a lot and we strive to keep our promises, but I guarantee you there's good reasons when we slip - usually something we can't talk about but is awesome and we'll let everyone else in on down the line. So on the implication that folks here aren't working hard or things at Paizo need to change because of X, Y, or Z, unless that's coming down from Lisa, Vic, Erik, or Jeff, one might not be fully in the know. Rest assured, though, all the developer gnomes and editor gnomes are busy, busy, busy, at work and you've got a TON of cool stuff headed your way.
And with that, I've now taken about a half hour I could have been working on the Bestiary writing this. Guess I'll get to that after my 4 hour brunch, 2:00 nap, foot massage, trip to the Paizo sauna and milkshake pool, and 5:00 nap. Busy busy.
The subtext wouldn't happen to be something close to: "You're wrong, and don't ever ever criticize Paizo because they're so awesome and can do no wrong!"
I for one am a very strong supporter of this vibe.
Support Your Paizo Editorial Staff. Hug an Editor TODAY!
we LOVE our subscribersAw shucks! Thanks!
MWAAAAAH!
You have a milkshake pool over there...sigh.
What's root beer?
|
Stop wasting space and give us adventure.
People upthread recommended you to wait for Kingmaker. +1 from me.
Part of the feedback I'm seeing here for Richard Pett's module, and the previous instalment by Sean K Reynolds, remind me of the type of feedback that began to be quite frequent when A Second Darkness was being released. There was even a thread, "Disappointed with Second Darkness".
I think there's a pattern to these things. James Jacobs once said that Paizo tries to release two adventure paths (APs) a year so that at least one of the two will appeal to most groups. That means that, to some degree, the two APs have to appeal at different level and due to different things.
Looking back at Paizo's offerings for Pathfinder, I'm inclined to believe that an alternation model is in swing. I'm not going to spell out what the respective appeals of the alternating APs are, but personally I found it rewarding to give every second AP a break and then buy the next one after that. Personally,
Runelords - went off a tangent
Crimson Throne - was up my alley
Second Darkness - the less said the better
Legacy of Fire - again, up my alley
Council of Thieves - didn't even try
Kingmaker - the way it's marketed I wager it will best fit my style of play of all APs published yet
And then there are folks who didn't much like Crimson Throne and avoided Legacy of Fire for (e.g.) flavour reasons, while reporting they had a blast with playing Second Darkness. So the alternation model is working for those people too.
Honestly, if you find Council of Thieves not for your liking, I suggest you skip it. If you're short on adventure material, peruse the threads on previous APs and check very carefully what people praise APs for and where they find fault. Once you've found a poster who seems to be saying stuff that reminds you of yourself, stick to that and look to what he recommends (people all the time say what they like, or, if they don't like something, what they liked BETTER). As for previous APs, I think there are RICHES to be had. As for having trouble buying print copies of previous APs (such as Runelords) I recommend buying the PDFs, printing them out black/white (not expensive) and buying the Map Folios. Did you know, for instance, that only 1 and 2 maps are missing from Runelords #5 and #3 respectively in the Map Folio? Maps are the only things I need in colour when running a module. The rest is just eye candy, which I can happily do without. (Says W. who bought a bucket load of Paizo stuff in print over the years. Har!) So yeah, the Map Folios are a pretty good option for filling blanks in one's collection.
|
|
And this is also why we always pack lots of adventure support material into each volume, so that even if you don't like the AP you can hopefully find usable and entertaining reading in the other half of the book.
Funny you should say that. Personally the decisive factor for me in (what to me comes across as) the "alternation model" is that one half of the adventure paths focuses the supporting material on the actual campaign - e.g. Crimson Throne was super-focused and super-tight as an adventure path design - whereas the other half delivers all sorts of goodies to the detriment of the actual adventure.* But that's just my subjective impression, and in the end every long-time customer of Paizo has to find out his own criteria for purchase.
*Observe the excerpt I quoted from the OP. Telling. As I said, reminds of Second Darkness.
Looking back at Paizo's offerings for Pathfinder, I'm inclined to believe that an alternation model is in swing. I'm not going to spell out what the respective appeals of the alternating APs are, but personally I found it rewarding to give every second AP a break and then buy the next one after that. Personally,
Runelords - went off a tangent
Crimson Throne - was up my alley
Second Darkness - the less said the better
Legacy of Fire - again, up my alley
Council of Thieves - didn't even try
Kingmaker - the way it's marketed I wager it will best fit my style of play of all APs published yet
It's like the Star Trek even-numbered movie rule!
(But Second Darkness is more like the Star Trek V of the APs. That's right, I said it.) :D
|
|
(But Second Darkness is more like the Star Trek V of the APs. That's right, I said it.) :D
If this forum allowed for signatures in postings, this would be mine, complete with brackets and the "there - I said it :D".
Followed by "Second Darkness fans bash new Adventure Path", space permitting.
MWAAAAAH!we LOVE our subscribersAw shucks! Thanks!
We truly do love you guys (especially you vagrant-poet)
I feel all warm and fuzzy!!! :D
Also, I'm all for hug an editor! Hell, I've got long arms, I could grab one or two!
Everybody! Hug your EDITORS!!!
Lots and lots of words...
Wow, Wes. You're one "wordy" guy. ;-P
But hat's off to the editorial staff. Yes. Even Wes...and Sean. ::shudder::
--Neil
I think Neil should be busy working on his project for Wes.
And I have been...thank you very much. Just finished off all my major maps. Next up is squaring off all the stat-blocks by fleshing out their tactics sections. And then I'll start filling out the framework of the manuscript with the appropriate styles and formatting. I just pop in here from time to time when I need a brief respite, you know. ;-)
Okay damnit Ogre, I'm beginning to think we're the same damn person, like we're really test tube clones in an experiment to see if human behavior is genetic, because we tend to think alike in our gaming, and now I learn you're about the exact same point in running rise of the runelords as I am and enjoying it the exact same way I am, yeesh.We did discuss buying the Rise of the runelords AP to play and wait for CoT to come out, In it's entireity, But #1 all of RotRL isnt available for purchase now, and CoT was the first ALL Pathfinder AP and wereally wanted to play it with our new non beta PCs.I would also like to run that, but alas it's out of print. I really need a print copy in order to enjoy and actually run an adventure. Any chance Rise of the Runelords would be reprinted? That would be great!I just chased down Rise of the Runelords and got it for less than cover price to boot. You can pick up most of it here at Paizo and grab the leftovers from Amazon. Or Abebooks.
From what I've read so far it's well worth the effort of converting. I love Burnt Offerings, maybe my favorite 1-3 level module. I've only started on Skinsaw murders and it's great so far. I am of course anxious to get to Hook Mountain Massacre ;)
My group will also shortly be starting on Skinsaw Murders. Although we are currently taking a two week hiatus after the PC's skipped down two levels to run straight into the final boss fight with Nualia... only to have half the party to die to shadows thereafter while backtracking through the dungeon.
Scheduling is sometimes a problem for my group though we generally run weekly on tues. from 6pm-10pm.
The subtext wouldn't happen to be something close to: "You're wrong, and don't ever ever criticize Paizo because they're so awesome and can do no wrong!"I for one am a very strong supporter of this vibe.
Support Your Paizo Editorial Staff. Hug an Editor TODAY!
*Grabs the nearest developer he can find and gives them a big crushing bear-hug*
Thanks guys... you da best!
|
Okay damnit Ogre, I'm beginning to think we're the same damn person, like we're really test tube clones in an experiment to see if human behavior is genetic, because we tend to think alike in our gaming, and now I learn you're about the exact same point in running rise of the runelords as I am and enjoying it the exact same way I am, yeesh.We did discuss buying the Rise of the runelords AP to play and wait for CoT to come out, In it's entireity, But #1 all of RotRL isnt available for purchase now, and CoT was the first ALL Pathfinder AP and wereally wanted to play it with our new non beta PCs.I would also like to run that, but alas it's out of print. I really need a print copy in order to enjoy and actually run an adventure. Any chance Rise of the Runelords would be reprinted? That would be great!I just chased down Rise of the Runelords and got it for less than cover price to boot. You can pick up most of it here at Paizo and grab the leftovers from Amazon. Or Abebooks.
From what I've read so far it's well worth the effort of converting. I love Burnt Offerings, maybe my favorite 1-3 level module. I've only started on Skinsaw murders and it's great so far. I am of course anxious to get to Hook Mountain Massacre ;)
My group will also shortly be starting on Skinsaw Murders. Although we are currently taking a two week hiatus after the PC's skipped down two levels to run straight into the final boss fight with Nualia... only to have half the party to die to shadows thereafter while backtracking through the dungeon.
Scheduling is sometimes a problem for my group though we generally run weekly on tues. from 6pm-10pm.
Heh my party got their asses handed to them by the shadows, I know the halfling got taken to 0 str, and the fighter was down to half his, So the party wound up running away, I had the shadows stay in the room with their coffins though, trying to make it like they were bound to that room.
I think Neil should be busy working on his project for Wes.
And I have been...thank you very much.
Hey! Back off my writer Reynolds. Dr. Spicer is a busy man with no time for your jibberjabber.
The subtext wouldn't happen to be something close to: "You're wrong, and don't ever ever criticize Paizo because they're so awesome and can do no wrong!"I for one am a very strong supporter of this vibe.
Support Your Paizo Editorial Staff. Hug an Editor TODAY!
~gives Wesley a big hug and then looks him square in the eyes~ Hey! Get your hands off my rear! I am not that kind of Dragon!
~GRINS~
Keep up the good work you all!