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Being a warforged lover who almost always chose the artificer (you can be MegaMan that way) with mithril plating, versus a friend who was always the warforged fighter (warforged variant)/warforged juggernaut with adamantine plating, I'm completely fine with the +2 CON -2 CHA, and them not losing WIS, or gaining anything else. The -CHA just represents that they're just not all that pretty to look at. No different than a thri-keen having -4 CHA. It's a giant bug. They're not cute either. Then you have all the racial stuff. Like how they're looked down on. The +CON I like because it shows that they're "Made of sterner stuff." XD
Other than that, I'd probably say that they should have what the half-elf used to have, and that is they can pick any one class to be their favored instead of just Fighter. I say this because, as it was pointed out earlier, each warforged is built differently, for different purposes in mind while they're being constructed.
One way to convert the races is to simply add a stat bonus to something they don't have already. Wouldn't totally work for me, but would simplify conversions of older material.
Changeling: I like the +2 to any stat, changeable 1/day mentioned earlier
Kalashtar: +2 to any one mental stat.
Shifter: +2 Wis, along with the regular adjustments
Warforged: +2 Str, along with the regular adjustments
The reasoning is that the core races are basically the same as 3e (yes I know some changes occured, but talking basically). The main change ends up being an additional +2 to some stat that wasn't boosted before. Not necessary to become a +2 after all is said & done, just an additional +2 to something.
On another note, I would remove the Fortification off of the Warforged racial abilities. It represents that 3e constructs were immune to critical hits, which they aren't anymore in PFRPG. Makes no sense to keep it now.
Here's a thought: "Why tinker with these races in the first place"
One of the reasons I like Pathfinder is that it brought the core races and classes up to par with some of the material that was printed later on.
The Warforged is a good example of this. Many a time I've heard it argued that this race has an "artificially low" level adjustment (of +0). The same argument was made about the Dwarf. Mind you people arguing these points where using the guidelines in Savage Species to construct races.
And why not play a Warforged. It has a host of immunities, makes an excellent marital character. You're a living construct. Yeah it has its drawbacks but the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.
Pathfinder brought the 3.5 races up in power, making the case for playing a Half Elf, Half Orc or even a Human. Now they are comparable to the Warforge (as it was printed) when making a selection.
Granted character creation should never be based on pluses and minuses, but come on, we've all caught ourselves at sometime or another trying to tweak the system in our own favor. Anyone who hasn't is either a saint or liar. Its one of the reasons I make people do a character write up before they actually assign hard stats and numbers to their characters. I want them to envision what they are creating first before they are influenced by pluses an minuses.
So with everything these races offer, one must ask the question. When compared the the pathfinder core races, are these races now lacking, or has the balance issue been fixed? And if so, by updating them aren't we just perpetuating and escalating power cycle.
Mind you these are just my thoughts.
Feel free to disagree.
...And why not play a Warforged. It has a host of immunities, makes an excellent marital character. ....
We are pretty dependable, but if you are looking to have babies I think you are out of luck :D
...And why not play a Warforged. It has a host of immunities, makes an excellent marital character. ....We are pretty dependable, but if you are looking to have babies I think you are out of luck :D
Bah! All semantics and excuses. Remember what Malcom in Jurassic Park said, "Life always finds a way"
it may not be willing, it may not be consensual, hell it may just be a sin abomination against the gods, but if your warforged wants to have a baby bad enough, trust me, life will find a way.
(yes I'm being totally sarcastic)
:)
-AK
I can see one reason to change the stats at least, the new pointbuy system is keyed to having a lot of stat bonuses floating around.
For Changeling, I'd do +2 to any stat, changing it seems nice for flavor, but in practice most builds are going to have the same bonus all the time. And its just begging for a player to find a way to exploit it if it can be changed, even if I can't come up with a way.
No change to the shape change ability (possible exception, being able to take a small size fits the flavor better, and is less powerful in PF, but no stat change would be associated, perhaps as a feat?).
There should also really be some way for a changeling to have or get darkvision or low light vision, just to be able to emulate elfs/dwarves etc. Its a poor infiltrator who has trouble seeing in her persona's natural environment. Again this should probably be a feat or something for balance reasons, but I'm not really sure how to judge how powerful of an ability this is actually is.
it may not be willing, it may not be consensual, hell it may just be a sin abomination against the gods, but if your warforged wants to have a baby bad enough, trust me, life will find a way.
(yes I'm being totally sarcastic)
You are? Well, I would say it with no sarcasm whatsoever. In a fantasy world, the laws of nature are always subject to change. If nature doesn't find a way, the writers do. In Dragonlance, didn't the writers eventually came up with a method for draconians to reproduce?
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You are? Well, I would say it with no sarcasm whatsoever. In a fantasy world, the laws of nature are always subject to change. If nature doesn't find a way, the writers do. In Dragonlance, didn't the writers eventually came up with a method for draconians to reproduce?
Yup... the male draconians eventually found "undiscovered" female draconians and have started their own city, Teyr. This all happens in the Age Of Mortals after Takhisis stole the world and was eventually punished for the act.
it may not be willing, it may not be consensual, hell it may just be a sin abomination against the gods, but if your warforged wants to have a baby bad enough, trust me, life will find a way.
(yes I'm being totally sarcastic)
You are? Well, I would say it with no sarcasm whatsoever. In a fantasy world, the laws of nature are always subject to change. If nature doesn't find a way, the writers do. In Dragonlance, didn't the writers eventually came up with a method for draconians to reproduce?
You see, life found a way...
I can see one reason to change the stats at least, the new pointbuy system is keyed to having a lot of stat bonuses floating around.
For Changeling, I'd do +2 to any stat, changing it seems nice for flavor, but in practice most builds are going to have the same bonus all the time. And its just begging for a player to find a way to exploit it if it can be changed, even if I can't come up with a way.
No change to the shape change ability (possible exception, being able to take a small size fits the flavor better, and is less powerful in PF, but no stat change would be associated, perhaps as a feat?).
There should also really be some way for a changeling to have or get darkvision or low light vision, just to be able to emulate elfs/dwarves etc. Its a poor infiltrator who has trouble seeing in her persona's natural environment. Again this should probably be a feat or something for balance reasons, but I'm not really sure how to judge how powerful of an ability this is actually is.
I was thinking it would be neat for the Changeling to have a floating +2 to her stats (she is a CHANGEling, after all), but doing it once a day or whatever seems a little arbitrary. I was thinking that maybe the Changeling can change her +2 Stat at will by spending an action point.
Normally, she wouldn't change her stat because it fits whatever build she has. But once in a while, it might be necessary to change it.
Or maybe she can change it once per day for free, but additional daily changes can be had at the cost of an action point.
Hmm, requiring an action point would balance better, fits the flavor better (you can change and then change back if you really really need to), and its hard to be game breaking if it costs you an action point. Maybe changing costs an action point, but changing back is free.
The one thing is that not all games with Changelings actually use the Action Point mechanic.
You could also have the change require 10 minutes, to keep it out of combat, that would nix most potential exploits, and reduce the overall power of the ability, in which case 1/day + action point might balance well.
+2 charisma, -2 str, +2 floating boost to one physical score (can be used to cancel str penalty)?
I definitely don't think that Warforged should get +2 +2 -2 stats if they get to keep their truckload of immunities. Those immunities are easily worth a +2 stat. I'm in favor of +2 any, -2 charisma, the +2 can be put in charisma to counteract the penalty.
Yeah, one thing I like about the baseline races having +2/+2/-2 is that you can create slightly more powerful races and adjust the ability bonuses and penalties accordingly.
For example, you could make a goliath with +2 Str, -2 Dex, and no level adjustment. A warforged could be +2 Con, -2 Cha and no level adjustment.
I think that's real nifty.
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Okay, I took what I read in this thread and tweaked the Shifter a bit.
What is everyone's opinion?
Shifter
• +2 dex, +2 wis,-2 cha . Shifters are agile but they are not the most friendly and they have the wild side
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Shifting (Su): As a Swift action a Shifter may call upon their Lycanthropic nature. Shifting may be used a number of rounds a day equal to 4+ her Constitution bonus. Each Shifter Feat the Shifter takes increases the number of rounds she can remain Shifted by 2. While Shifted she gains the benefit of her Shifter Trait, chosen at character creation.
• Low Light Vision: Shifter’s see twice as far in low light.
• +2 to Acrobatics and Climb checks. Shifters are naturally athletic.
Shifter Traits:
• Beast Hide: +2 Constitution and Natural Armor of +2.
• Long Tooth: +2 Strength and gains a natural bite attack that deals 1d6 and add +1 damage/4 levels. May be used as a secondary attack at -5 penalty.
• Cliff Walker: +2 Dexterity and gains a Climb speed of 20ft.
• Razor Claw: + 2 Strength and gains claws which are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d4 points of damage each and add +1 damage/4 levels.
• Longstrider: +2 Dexterity and +10ft to Speed.
• Wild Hunt: +2 Constitution and gains the Scent ability
Seems good to me. I'd throw in some clarification about ending shifting so it's clear that you can end it at any time.
This is my warforged conversion. I've approached it from what would seem to make sense from giving life to a construct, i.e., how would the construct type be affected, and then went from there, trying to draw in the existing flavour. I've not concerned myself with trying to make it a +0 race; I just went with what made sense to me at the time and hence those concerned about level adjustments may not like it. Anyway, here it is, with appropriate back-up rules. Hope someone will find it useful. Comments welcome.
Warforged Race
Living Construct (Ex): Warforged are constructs with the living construct subtype.
Normal Speed: Warforged have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Warforged can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Warforged can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Composite Plating: The plating used to build a warforged provides a +2 natural armour bonus.
Material Construction: Warforged are composed of wood, metal, and stone which makes them vulnerable to certain spells that affect those materials. A warforged takes damage from heat metal and chill metal, and is affected by repel metal or stone, as if it was wearing metal armour. A warforged is repelled by repel wood. A warforged is vulnerable to rusting attacks, such as rusting grasp and the touch of a rust monster.
No Natural Healing: Warforged do not heal damage naturally and they can only benefit from the heal skill when it is used to remove a movement penalty by treating wounds from caltrops, spike growth, or spike stones. With access to tools and materials, certain craft skills can be used to repair warforged. Applicable skills are Craft (armour), Craft (blacksmithing), Craft (carpentry), Craft (sculpture), and Craft (stonemasonry).
Resistances: Positive energy channeled to heal a living construct and negative energy channeled to harm a living construct, cures or inflicts half the damage it otherwise would.
Immunities: Warforged are immune to disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, the nauseated and sickened conditions, fatigue, exhaustion, and nonlethal damage. They are not subject to risk of death from massive damage.
Nonbiological: A warforged does not eat, sleep, or breathe. It can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. A warforged who prepares arcane spells must remain in a state of inactivity, meditating, for 8 hours to enable spell preparation. While in this state, the warforged is fully aware of its surroundings and notices approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Languages: Warforged begin play speaking Common. They do not receive bonus languages for high Intelligence scores.
Warforged Builds
Soldier
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha. Warforged soldiers are strong and resilient, but they have difficulty relating to other creatures.
Medium: Warforged soldiers are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Hard to Kill: Warforged soldiers gain 10 bonus hit points at 1st level.
Natural Weapon: Warforged soldiers have a slam natural attack that inflicts 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage.
Scout
+2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha. Warforged scouts are agile and resilient, but they have difficulty relating to other creatures.
Small: Warforged scouts are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Hard to Kill: Warforged scouts gain 5 bonus hit points at 1st level.
Natural Weapon: Warforged scouts have a slam natural attack that inflicts 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage.
Creature Subtype
Living Construct Subtype: Living constructs are created beings given sentience and free will through powerful and complex creation enchantments. Living constructs with 1 Hit Die exchange the features of their construct Hit Die for the class features of a PC or NPC class. Living constructs of this sort are typically presented as 1st-level warriors, which means they have average combat ability and poor saving throws. A living construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature entry).
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs have Constitution scores and are not immune to effects that require a Fortitude save.
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs are not immune to mind-affecting effects.
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs are not immune to death effects, necromancy effects, or stunning.
• Positive energy channeled to heal a living construct and negative energy channeled to harm a living construct, cures or inflicts half the damage it otherwise would.
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain.
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs are not immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. A living construct with 0 hit points is wrecked, not disabled. A living construct that has negative hit points, but is not dead, is inert, not dying.
• Unlike other constructs, living constructs can be raised or resurrected.
• Living constructs are hard to destroy but less so than other constructs. They gain half the bonus hit points of other constructs of their size.
• Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs.
Conditions
Wrecked: A living construct with 0 hit points is wrecked. A wrecked character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions, but he can still take swift, immediate, and free actions). He moves at half speed. The character suffers a -2 penalty to attacks, damage, and to Str- and Dex-based skill checks.
Inert: A living construct that has negative hit points, but is not dead, is inert. An inert character is unconscious and can take no actions.
Skills
Craft (Int)
Repair Living Construct: Characters trained in Craft (armour), Craft (blacksmithing), Craft (carpentry), Craft (sculpture), or Craft (stonemasonry) can attempt to repair living constructs that have taken damage. A check requires access to tools and materials, takes 8 hours, and restores a number of hit points equal to the Craft check result -15. A character can take 10 on this check but can't take 20. Repairing living constructs requires some crafting expertise. This use of Craft cannot be performed untrained.
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The big problem I have with giving Warforged an overall +2 is that they were always significantly more powerful than the rest of the races.
Even if you assume that the Warforged were, run as-is in 3.5, balanced with the core races (as well as the Eberron races) then boosting them up to +2 is still way too much.
Consider that in the ECS, they have +2 con, -2 wis and -2 cha. Bumping this up to +2 con, +2 int, -2 cha or -2 wis means giving them an overall +4 boost from 3.5 to 3.P, compared to the overall +2 boost given to most other races.
Half-orc getting an overall +4 might be one argument in favor of boosting Warforged, but then you compare the 3.5 half-orc to the 3.5 warforged and tell me if they need the same power boost. If you look at the side-by-side, you'll find that their power levels are grossly uneven.
For my own Eberron game, I've boosted Changelings and Kalashtar up to a +2 of their choice, Shifter get +2 dex and their choice of -2 int or -2 cha (for an overall +0 total adjustment), and Warforged similarly get +2 con, -2 to their choice of wis or cha.
Overall, each race got +2 total, and so far it's worked out pretty well for me (I have a changeling and a warforged in my game).
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I did a small conversion for the Changelings. I only gave them a single +2 to one stat. However, I let them move the stat around as they wished but only a single change in a 24 hour period.This is a GREAT idea!
Hmmmmm...
Variable Stat bonus: Whenever the Changeling assumes the form of a race that has one or more bonuses to any set Stat(s), the Changeling may elect to add a +2 any one of those Stats.
Hows that sound? Have at it!
I had considered this after seeing it floating around, but I decided against it. Too many possible problems.
Example: what if the character puts the +2 into intelligence. Do they immediately get 1 skill rank/level? How do they assign them?
The physical stats aren't so much a big deal, because it makes sense that turning into a nimble halfling or a bulky half-orc would affect their physical capabilities. But you're going to tell me that they actually gain intelligence, wisdom, or charisma, based on what shape they choose today?
"Yeah today I went with charisma so I can talk our way out of a fight, and then pick up on chicks at the tavern later on"
This is similar to some work I did for my Eberron campaign when I switched to Pathfinder. The full PDF document is here, but essentially the major changes were:
Changelings - gained +2 to Charisma.
I felt changelings are masters of manipulation, they should get their boost to charisma, but otherwise are not sufficiently different to humans in terms of their specialisation to gain or lose anywhere else.
Kalashtar - gained a +2 bonus to any mental attribute. I also changed mindlink to being a bonus psionic power they could use with their racial psionic power points, if psionics was available.
Kalashtar - who I feel are the best rationalised psionic race in 3.5 - should get their bonus to their mental stats; they are sufficiently human to be versatile, but much more cerebrally and socially focussed.
Shifters - changed to +2 Dexterity and -2 Intelligence.
I really love the concept of shifters, but on the balance of things the intelligence deserves the hit more than the charisma (it's that animal magnetism!).
Warforged - changed to +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
Warforged are made for one thing: war. They need to to be tough and strong and follow orders, but smart enough to improvise when orders are not forthcoming.
As with Pathfinder, all the races get a net +2 on what they had previously. Warforged and Shifters are still points down on other races, but make up for that with their other advantages and their specialist feats.
I also toyed with weapon proficiencies - for Warforged in particular; I toyed with giving them a free martial weapon proficiency (if they had none) or exotic weapon proficiency (if they had full martial weapon proficiency). For shifters I considered making them proficient with bows of all types. I couldn't imagine what to make kalashtar or changelings proficient with, however.
for my campaign, i had
+2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha (poor social skills) -2 wis (duller senses
normal immunities
lose fortification
lose composite plating
I am toying with taking the 2 str away and adding 1 nat. armor instead
I was also thinking about giving them something like a tieflings 'fiendish sorcery' for the magic bloodline, or for a custom bloodline.
for my campaign, i had
+2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha (poor social skills) -2 wis (duller senses
normal immunities
lose fortification
lose composite platingI am toying with taking the 2 str away and adding 1 nat. armor instead
I was also thinking about giving them something like a tieflings 'fiendish sorcery' for the magic bloodline, or for a custom bloodline.
Why get rid of their composite plating and fortification? these were never unbalancing before with the warforged. Gaining another +2 strength just levelled them with comparison to the other Pathfinder races.
constructs are no longer immune to crits, and I really don't want to stick players in the "feat or armor" boat anymore.
constructs are no longer immune to crits, and I really don't want to stick players in the "feat or armor" boat anymore.
Then getting rid of the fortification makes perfect sense. The feat or armour bit was always something I liked about warforged, though: I thought it was neat and appropriate.
In the Eberron campaigns I was in, the same people would always play Warforged and Artificers (often together) and would then be the ones strenuously complaining that the Warforged had huge amounts of minuses, so that my little old Tiefling was of course much more powerful. I didn't buy it then and I still don't buy it now.
In the Eberron campaigns I was in, the same people would always play Warforged and Artificers (often together) and would then be the ones strenuously complaining that the Warforged had huge amounts of minuses, so that my little old Tiefling was of course much more powerful. I didn't buy it then and I still don't buy it now.
You and me both. Your tiefling still had to sleep and eat, for example, and didn't have a built in suit of armour no one could remove from him.
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I've talked about this with some friends, and what we've come up with for racial adjusts is as such:
Changelings: +2 any attribute, as they're human blooded. Make a racial feat that allows them to move this around 1/day.
Kalashtar: +2 any attribute, as they're human blooded. Something would need to be done with their psionic flavor as well. Not sure what.
Shifters: +2 Wis, -2 Cha, to reflect their animal instincts, and feral nature. They also receive another +2 to a physical stat based on their breed (same bonus as they normally get when shifted, just all the time, although that means that their shifting might need some attention... or just a little playing with the duration).
Warforged: +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha, to reflect that their tough and built to last, can analyze things with a cold logic that leaves many people uncomfortable around them. (As much as it pains me, it makes a lot of sense to drop the 25% chance to negate crits. With constructs no longer immune, this seems like the right thing to do. Maybe feats to help make up for it later on though?)
This is my take, based off the OP and the ECS:
Changeling:
• +2 to any one physical attribute, can be shifted to another physical attribute as a Full Round Action (no amount of shapeshiting will make a changeling smarter, wiser, or more charismatic)
• Subtype: Shapechanger
• Size: Medium
• Speed: 30ft.
• Natural Linguist: Changelings always treat Linguistics as a class skill
• Minor Shape Change (Su): Changelings may change their appearance as per the Disguise Self spell as a Full Round Action. This may be done at will and last until the Changling changes her shape again. Unlike Disguise Self, this is an actual physical change, not an illusion. This doesn’t give her the ability to change her clothing or equipment. A Changeling reverts to her true form when killed, but not when unconscious, and can be detected with a True Seeing spell. Changelings gain +10 to Disguise checks and suffer no penalties to checks to appear as a different race or sex.
• +2 to save vs Sleep and Charm effects. Changelings have slippery minds.
• +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive. Changlings are naturally empathic.
Comments:
- A shapeshifting attribute bonus to Charisma could be argued, but I see Charisma primarily as force of personality, not as a measure of looks, so I went with physical attributes only.
- Size: Medium -> the Minor Shape Change ability doesn't quite get them to small size, and definitely not to large - body mass is maintained on a shapeshift. They can slouch and walk with slightly bent legs to try to appear small - that's what the +10 disguise bonus is for ;-)
- No Darkvision or Lowlight Vision was a weakness they had in the ECS, so I decided to stick to that
Shifter
• +2 to Dexterity, +2 to Wisdom, -2 to Intelligence. Shifters are agile and instinctively in touch with their surroundings, but their feral natures interfere with rational thought.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Shifting (Su): unchanged from ECS
• Low Light Vision: Shifters see twice as far in low light.
• +2 to Acrobatics and Climb checks. Shifters are naturally athletic.
Shifter Traits: unchanged, except for
• Cliffwalk: unchanged, but add +8 racial modifier to climb when shifted (due to climb speed)
Comments:
- Attributes: I always felt that the Shifter (and especially his Shifting racial ability) was a bit underpowered compared to the other races, so I threw in an additional +2 WIS. If you don't like it, throw it out.
Warforged
• +2 to Constitution, -2 to Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Warforged are sturdier then most races but have an alien mindset due to their construct heritage, which not only makes it hard for them to relate to other creatures, but also often makes them disregard what others species would call "common sense".
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): unchanged from ECS
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: The composite plating is enchanted with the Light Fortification ability. 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning
Comments:
- Attributes: The Living Construct subtype abilities are crazy strong, so I figured that keeping the old attribute modifiers would put them more on par with the rest of the races
- I kept Light Fortification due to warforged being built for durability in a combat situation, and to balance out the attribute hit I just gave them :-). If you're feeling very generous you might allow your player to choose a different +1(ish) armor enchantment, like Shadow for a scout-type warforged.
Kalashtar
(ham-fisted, because who needs Kalashtar without Psionics)
• +2 to any one mental attribute
everything else: unchanged
Comments:
- Type: could be argued to be Outsider(native), similar to Tieflings. They are, after all, an amalgam of incorporeal outsiders and human hosts. Of course, that opens a whole new can of worms.
Kalashtar
(ham-fisted, because who needs Kalashtar without Psionics)
Have you seen Dreamscarred Press' psionics for Pathfinder ideas? They are rather good ...
I read through most of the thread but may have missed it...
For Warforged, which I kind of like as GM, I've toyed with the following. What do you think?
Warforged
• +2 to any one Physical, +2 to any one Mental (Including Charisma), -2 Charisma. Warforged are highly varied and created for many varied purposes, but have an alien mindset due to their construct heritage, which often makes it hard for them to relate to other creatures.
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex) : Living Constructs are immune to poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Living Constructs are not subject to nonlethal damage, fatigue, or exhaustion. Living Constructs are not at risk of death from massive damage.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning
Note that this is almost exactly what I am using in a game I am running that contains a warforged character. The only difference being the Stats (I used the stats from ECS/RoE). I modified the Construct Traits from the Bestiary to as closely match the Living Construct Traits (As modified Construct Traits) from ECS/RoE.
It seems to be working fine so far. It is rather amusing all the uses the players find for the warforged in the game. In my game, there aren't any 'warforged', instead, if you leave a golem alone for too long it develops sentience. The Gnomes HATE this and 'reset' any awakened golems they can get their hands on. They've had to run from a city already to avoid having him 'reset'. On the other hand, they are covering ground REALLY fast (they bought a sand sled for getting around in the desert and got a custom harness for the golem and have him pull them 24/7 while they eat or rest on the sled, between being attacked by anything that takes a liking to them in the desert).
Two questions:
1) Why the 'any one physical' and 'any one mental'? Warforged always struck me as being fairly job specific: they were made to fight. They didn't need charisma, and were to world-inexperienced to evolve wisdom easily given their short 'childhood'. On the other hand, they did need to be physically touch and capable in order to fight. Hence their primary statistics should be strength and constitution. I'm not saying that your build is bad, just that it doesn't seem optimised for fighting in a way that I envisage that the warforged would be.
2) The original build gave the warforged (and the shifters) a net -2 to their stats. This was intended to compensate not just for their unique features, but their racial feats as well: both have options unavailable to other races. When pathfinderising the races, I upgraded this to a net +0, to maintain that balance. In the case of the warforged I made it a +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It's not that I do not think there shouldn't be wise or charismatic warforged, it's just they are going to be rarer than the archetypical big and tough types.
Sounds like you are having a lot of fun in your game - I always liked the warforged concept-wise, and they can be great fun to role-play.
Warforged
• +2 to any one Physical, +2 to any one Mental (Including Charisma), -2 Charisma.
while i understand you wanting to stick with the pathfinder standard of "one mental, one physical or one anywhere if part human", i think with the additions of the powers granted by the living construct type they just become too strong in comparison to other races
and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
WHOA! You do realize this makes them virtually immune to all death magic? I would argue that such all time favorite save-or-dies as Finger of Death (Wizard 7, Druid 8) and Destruction (Cleric 7) target the life force, which a "living" construct certainly has, and don't rely an inducing a heart attack :)
If the sentience (as seems to be the case in your campaign) is derived from an inevitable mutation of the magical aura that originally animated it, and not a "life spark" as such, i would consider allowing dispel magic type spells to damage (EDIT: or disable, comparable to hold person) the construct (and woe to a construct hit by disjunction)
Two questions:
1) Why the 'any one physical' and 'any one mental'? Warforged always struck me as being fairly job specific: they were made to fight. They didn't need charisma, and were to world-inexperienced to evolve wisdom easily given their short 'childhood'. On the other hand, they did need to be physically touch and capable in order to fight. Hence their primary statistics should be strength and constitution. I'm not saying that your build is bad, just that it doesn't seem optimised for fighting in a way that I envisage that the warforged would be.
Not really, they were created for different jobs. Scouts (rogues, rangers, etc) would generally need more dex and intelligence, while fighter types (fighters, paladins, etc) would need more strength and wisdom. The spellcaster types would need one of the 3 mentals and Con, so I see a large variety in the builds. If you ever looked at some of the prestige classes for them, it showed radically different body builds on them. And remember, a warforged was made for fighting, but that doesn't mean 'Fighter'. A rogue is just as much a valid concept as a fighter as is a caster or a ranger.
And, it has the effect of bringing the race to the standard '+2 overall' that Pathfinder introduced for core races. I actually like that.
2) The original build gave the warforged (and the shifters) a net -2 to their stats. This was intended to compensate not just for their unique features, but their racial feats as well: both have options unavailable to other races. When pathfinderising the races, I upgraded this to a net +0, to maintain that balance. In the case of the warforged I made it a +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. It's not that I do not think there shouldn't be wise or charismatic warforged, it's just they are going to be rarer than the archetypical big and tough types.Sounds like you are having a lot of fun in your game - I always liked the warforged concept-wise, and they can be great fun to role-play.
Pathfinder races are equal to +1 races to begin with. I agree the original stat being at a net -2 was to bring them down a bit. However, if you combine the Warforged new vulnerability to sneak attacks (which he used to be immune to) with the boosting of the other races, I think further penalizing them with the same stat penalty they had before doesn't make a lot of sense. Remember, the conversion guide states explicitly that +1 races are fine as starting races under Pathfinder. So if you're going to take something away from a formerly +1 race, you should balance it out a bit by adding something back in.
Warforged
• +2 to any one Physical, +2 to any one Mental (Including Charisma), -2 Charisma.
while i understand you wanting to stick with the pathfinder standard of "one mental, one physical or one anywhere if part human", i think with the additions of the powers granted by the living construct type they just become too strong in comparison to other races
I don't think so. As I stated above, if you look at the pathfinder conversion document, it suggests that +1 races (Warforged) be treated as starting races. I think while they get some nifty benefits from the LC, it is all they get, no other racial abilities (like special sight, etc). Again, while the whole 'No fatigue, doesn't sleep' is nice, it's not really any combat effective thing.
and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).WHOA! You do realize this makes them virtually immune to all death magic? I would argue that such all time favorite save-or-dies as Finger of Death (Wizard 7, Druid 8) and Destruction (Cleric 7) target the life force, which a "living" construct certainly has, and don't rely an inducing a heart attack :)
If the sentience (as seems to be the case in your campaign) is derived from an inevitable mutation of the magical aura that originally animated it, and not a "life spark" as such, i would consider allowing dispel magic type spells to damage (EDIT: or disable, comparable to hold person) the construct (and woe to a construct hit by disjunction)
Grrr,
Actually, that's a typo from copy/pasting the Construct paragraph from the Bestiary entry. :) That shouldn't be in there.
The warforged were not immune to sneak attacks, he just had light fortification against them (a 25% chance that critical hits and sneak attacks would not work). It's not that big a loss, unfortunately. Most warforged were made as grunts, pure and simple - they weren't even fighters, they were warriors - and a few of the smarter ones were artificers or wizards (well, magewrights more frequently) to act as medics and spell support. They were used to equip entire armies, I agree, but warforged-scouts fulfilled the role of the dexterous scouts very well. Where ranger-type scouts were needed, shifters were more often employed. The warforged had to march forwards and engage the enemy; they were originally intended to be lead by other races as their officers, this practice was only relaxed when the warforged proved they could do the job themselves against expectations.
I agree that PCs would be exceptional, but that doesn't mean the race was made for those exceptions; you can work those in by choosing your stats, not in re-writing the racial concept.
Edit: on the flip side, that is the Eberron warforged - no reason warforged elszewhere wouldn't have different expectations of them, I suppose.
It's not that big a loss, unfortunately. Most warforged were made as grunts, pure and simple - they weren't even fighters, they were warriors - and a few of the smarter ones were artificers or wizards (well, magewrights more frequently) to act as medics and spell support.
...
I agree that PCs would be exceptional, but that doesn't mean the race was made for those exceptions; you can work those in by choosing your stats, not in re-writing the racial concept.
Actually, this isn't true at all. One of the things that made Warforged inherently superior to a normal human solider was that they were ALL supposed to have PC class levels - there were no warrior or magewright warforged (except in their MM3 entry, which the Eberron fans widely condemned at the time). IIRC, Keith Baker mentioned this in response to someone asking why warforged were 'worth the money' if they weren't a +1 race. The "standard" warforged (re: majority), according to that conversation, was a level 2 fighter.
Anyway, here's the conversions I've been working on lately:
Changelings: +2 any stat (I liked the variable stat idea proposed earlier, but the mental stats make it unfeasible)
Shapechanger subtype, Medium, 30' move
Natural Linguist: Linguistics is a class skill
Slippery Minds: +2 racial v sleep and charm
Social Chameleon: +2 racial to Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive
Minor Change Shape: as ECS (physical Disguise Self).
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any.
Kalashtar: +2 any stat
Human subtype, Medium, 30' move
Natural Mindlink: at-will one-to-one telepathy within 30'
Mind Shield: +2 racial v mind-affecting & possession
Social Savant: +2 racial to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate
Dreamless: Sleep with dreams; immunity to dream and nightmare spells and similar effects.
Shifters: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Int
Shapechanger subtype, Medium, 30' move
Low Light Vision
Animal Heritage: +2 Acrobatics and Climb
Shifting: as Rage, almost verbatim.
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, and Sylvan.
Warforged: +2 any stat, -2 any stat. Warforged were manufactured according to order specifications, therefore they could be as strong, agile, tough, smart, perceptive or commanding as the commission required. Usually tough or strong, but not always.
Living Construct: as is in ECS, plus they do not take non-lethal damage from a forced march; Medium, 30' move
Composite Plating: +2 armor bonus (NOT natural armor). May be enchanted. Upgraded armors (mithral, adamantine, bronzewood) may be taken in lieu of two traits. 5% arcane spell failure.
Poker Face: +2 racial bonus to Bluff and Intimidate
Socially Inept: -2 racial penalty to Diplomacy and Sense Motive
Light Fortification: 25%
Slam: natural weapon (1d4+STR)
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any.
Again, while the whole 'No fatigue, doesn't sleep' is nice, it's not really any combat effective thing.
Personally, I think the 'no fatigue' thing in and of itself is pretty damn strong. Ask any Barbarian who has to wait until Level 17 for Tireless Rage, which Warforged Barbarians get as a minor side-effect of their racial subtype. :)
Grrr,
Actually, that's a typo from copy/pasting the Construct paragraph from the Bestiary entry. :) That shouldn't be in there.
You are excused ;)
Um, Ryanroyce, fortification was dropped from Pathfinder. I can find nothing to suggest warforged can't take NPC class levels, anywhere. All the information in the ECS and Races of Eberron indicates they were designed as soldiers, pure and simple, and mass produced for outfitting armies. Their big advantage for this was not their 'superiority' in terms of PC levels, it was the fact they didn't tire and didn't bleed and followed orders (ie increased str, con, reduced wis, cha).
Custom warforged? Some were made but they were exceptions, not the rule. I stick by my assessment of them and their stat-bonuses/penalties.
I can find nothing to suggest warforged can't take NPC class levels, anywhere. All the information in the ECS and Races of Eberron indicates they were designed as soldiers, pure and simple, and mass produced for outfitting armies. Their big advantage for this was not their 'superiority' in terms of PC levels, it was the fact they didn't tire and didn't bleed and followed orders (ie increased str, con, reduced wis, cha).
Custom warforged? Some were made but they were exceptions, not the rule. I stick by my assessment of them and their stat-bonuses/penalties.
If you like to disagree with the setting creator's vision of warforged, then be my guest. I'm just repeating what was said at the time, that the Standard Model warforged was a Fighter 2. I'd offer a quote, but this was from a conversation on one of the huge Ask Keith Baker threads from around 4-6 years ago.
Yes, custom warforged. If I remember correctly, there was a short story included with (I think) the Eberron DM's Screen that featured a set of six custom-built warforged rangers/scouts with magical camouflage abilities that were being traded to Cyre in exchange for an older model WF archer (Pierce).
Even if the default, mass-produced warforged was a Fighter, it was still well within the means of House Cannith to produce non-standard warforged with different stat arrays (even a +2 CHA model designed to command other WF soldiers). Giving them a +2/-2 array both recognizes this capacity for customization while also giving them the net -2 they had in the original version.
If you like to disagree with the setting creator's vision of warforged, then be my guest. I'm just repeating what was said at the time, that the Standard Model warforged was a Fighter 2. I'd offer a quote, but this was from a conversation on one of the huge Ask Keith Baker threads from around 4-6 years ago.
Well, I only have the published source material to go on and draw conclusions from. I agree that probably your typical warforged veteran - the guy who's been through the war for years and lived - if probably a fighter 2 or even higher. But that is not the main issue here.
Yes, custom warforged. If I remember correctly, there was a short story included with (I think) the Eberron DM's Screen that featured a set of six custom-built warforged rangers/scouts with magical camouflage abilities that were being traded to Cyre in exchange for an older model WF archer (Pierce).
As I said, custom warforged were made. That does not make them the standard model. If the standard model was, as you say, intended to be a fighter 2, then the standard ability modifiers I described would suit them perfectly for that role.
Even if the default, mass-produced warforged was a Fighter, it was still well within the means of House Cannith to produce non-standard warforged with different stat arrays (even a +2 CHA model designed to command other WF soldiers). Giving them a +2/-2 array both recognizes this capacity for customization while also giving them the net -2 they had in the original version.
I am not disputing this. But that does not make the standard for the race a variable. After all, Kieth Baker himself gave them the +2 Con/-2 Wis/-2 Cha original attribute modifiers, so he clearly didn't feel that the level of customisation available merited having variable modifiers attributable to any score as humans did.
You can have clumsy elves, smart shifters, charismatic dwarves and so on, yet no-one has suggested making their ability score modifiers variable because the modifiers represent the standard deviation of the race from the human 'norm'. In the same way, you can have wise, charismatic, weak and frail warforged - but that does not make these the standard, they are exceptions. The ability modifiers represent the racial standard and general tendency, and if you want a non-standard member of the race you have to deal with that. For example, you can get tough, unsociable elves, but that doesn't mean you get to move their -2 from con to cha just to suit that mechanical build; you allocate your scores and make the racial adjustments like anyone else, even though not all elves are born identical clones just as not all warforged were created as identical models.
To me, the argument about 'what WF were in Eberron' is kind of beside the point. Again, that's my view. The question to me is not, what are warforged in Eberron. The question is, what is a good writeup of the WF race that was published in Eberron campaign material, updated to PFRPG and genericized for use in a PF campaign, or a homegrown campaign.
This is the perception I used when I made my decision (as shown above) on how to build them. I go back to the 'Created Sentient' idea. If they are created for specific jobs, then they will have different stat bonuses based on what those specific jobs were. Thus the floating +2 any 1 physical, +2 any 1 mental, -2 Charisma. I'd even be ok with it being +2 any 1 Physical, +2 any 1 Mental, -2 Any Stat. Either way keeps them at the +2 overall, and it makes sense based on the idea they are designed for a specific path of life, ant that path is generally for a PC class development.
You can have any background for them you want, obviously, but I prefer to take the most generic approach possible in order to not force them into any one worlds mindset.
To me, the argument about 'what WF were in Eberron' is kind of beside the point. Again, that's my view. The question to me is not, what are warforged in Eberron. The question is, what is a good writeup of the WF race that was published in Eberron campaign material, updated to PFRPG and genericized for use in a PF campaign, or a homegrown campaign.
This is the perception I used when I made my decision (as shown above) on how to build them. I go back to the 'Created Sentient' idea. If they are created for specific jobs, then they will have different stat bonuses based on what those specific jobs were. Thus the floating +2 any 1 physical, +2 any 1 mental, -2 Charisma. I'd even be ok with it being +2 any 1 Physical, +2 any 1 Mental, -2 Any Stat. Either way keeps them at the +2 overall, and it makes sense based on the idea they are designed for a specific path of life, ant that path is generally for a PC class development.
You can have any background for them you want, obviously, but I prefer to take the most generic approach possible in order to not force them into any one worlds mindset.
I am jumping in this late and I can appreciate all the discussion about Warforged, but I guess my opinion is that their name really tells you what they were created for, making war. I would probably go with a +2CON, +2WIS, and -2INT, they are sentient but I have always felt they were made with one purpose in mind, the classes they choose help define how they accomplish those goals not their stat modifiers. Again my 2 cents.
I am jumping in this late and I can appreciate all the discussion about Warforged, but I guess my opinion is that their name really tells you what they were created for, making war. I would probably go with a +2CON, +2WIS, and -2INT, they are sentient but I have always felt they were made with one purpose in mind, the classes they choose help define how they accomplish those goals not their stat modifiers. Again my 2 cents.
I agree with you there. But why the boost to Wis and not Int? I would have thought that you'd want them bright enough to think tactically, but not be inclined to refuse orders.
I believe that a common starting point to take in consideration for any of us who tries to convert the Eberron Races (or, more in general, uncommon races) under the Pathfinder system would be to remember two things:
1) Core races in 3.5 (with the exception of Half-Orcs, due to a perceived superiority of the Strength bonus they possessed) had a total ability score modifiers of +0 (Elves had +2 Dex -2 Con, Humans had no bonuses, etc.). Other +0 LA races had often a lower modifier, due to the various special abilities they were granted - sometimes this choice was a bit overrated (like for Shifters, which were more or less on par of the other Core races yet they had a -2 on their total Ability score modifiers), sometimes this choice was even too much low (Warforged had a -2 on their total Ability score modifiers, yet they were still somehow too much powerful for being a +0 LA race).
2) Under Pathfinder, Core Races have been powered up for the specific purpose of being interesting even if compared to powerful races from the various 3.5 supplements. As a result, they were given a total Ability score modifier of +2 (even the Half-Orcs, luckily). Upping other races's scores should be carefully considered, because it would lead to an 'Arm's Race' of the Races (pun intended) again.
For example, some suggestions on the modifications to Warforged mentioned a '+2 1 physical, +2 1 mental, -2 Cha'. That would give the race an overall +2 to their Ability scores. However, in 3.5 (where the Core Races had a +0 to their scores), the Warforged had a total Ability score modifier of -2; upping their score bonuses in this way would give them a +4 to their 3.5 conterparts (where they were already perceived as a +1 LA borderline Race), making them significatively more powerful than all the other Core Races. Don't forget the various bonuses Warforged gain (Living Construct is a hindrance sometimes, but most of the times you appreciate the benefits it gives), that are already more powerful than those granted to the Core Races.
A cautious approach would simply be to leave their scores exactly like in 3.5 (and thus, giving them a -2 to their total Ability scores); a more enterprising approach could be to give them a +2 and a -2, for a total of +0 (hoping all other abilities they have would not be overpowering too much). During the Beta Playtest on my Eberron campaign, I opted for the second option, and I gave them a +2 Con, -2 Cha (and removed Light Fortification, since not even full Golem now have fortification against Critical Hits and Sneak Attacks); the result seemed somehow balanced (of course, it was the Beta Playtest, where Favored Class was fixed based on your Race, and one of my players guided a Rogue Warforged - not exactly a 'Favored Class', since I allowed Fighter and Artificer as FC for the 'Forged - but he was not too much powerful or too much weak than the other characters).
For other Eberron Races (Changeling and Kalashtar) which were +0 on 3.5, I believe that giving them an additional +2 would not unbalance too much; and for the Shifters (which were -2 in 3.5, but their special abilities were definitely not stellar), I could even opt for giving them a +2 Dex/ +2 Wis / -2 Int (bumping the race from -2 to +2, effectively), since their Shifting ability is not so much unbalancing (having only a finite use per day, much like a VERY minor Rage ability).
Just my 2 chipped DragonShards.
Even if the default, mass-produced warforged was a Fighter, it was still well within the means of House Cannith to produce non-standard warforged with different stat arrays (even a +2 CHA model designed to command other WF soldiers). Giving them a +2/-2 array both recognizes this capacity for customization while also giving them the net -2 they had in the original version.I am not disputing this. But that does not make the standard for the race a variable. After all, Kieth Baker himself gave them the +2 Con/-2 Wis/-2 Cha original attribute modifiers, so he clearly didn't feel that the level of customisation available merited having variable modifiers attributable to any score as humans did.
You can have clumsy elves, smart shifters, charismatic dwarves and so on, yet no-one has suggested making their ability score modifiers variable because the modifiers represent the standard deviation of the race from the human 'norm'. In the same way, you can have wise, charismatic, weak and frail warforged - but that does not make these the standard, they are exceptions. The ability modifiers represent the racial standard and general tendency, and if you want a non-standard member of the race you have to deal with that. For example, you can get tough, unsociable elves, but that doesn't mean you get to move their -2 from con to cha just to suit that mechanical build; you allocate your scores and make the racial adjustments like anyone else, even though not all elves are born identical clones just as not all warforged were created as identical models.
My point is that Warforged are made, not born, so there is no such thing as a "racial standard" or "general tendency" for them. At all. Elves, dwarves and shifters all have genetics (or whatever passes for genetics in a world like D&D) that create these tendencies, but warforged are man-made and are thus built to spec. By this, I mean that House Cannith doesn't create a Fighter Model and then retrofit it to the Rogue Model anymore than Ford tries to turn F-150s into Mustangs. They are simply built differently from the ground up.
For what it's worth, I (am planning to) run a Pathfinder game using the Eberron setting, and have run a few Eberron 3.5 games in the past, so my POV is couched firmly in the Eberron setting itself.
Also, it doesn't help that I strongly dislike the use of -2 CHA as a short-hand for social ineptitude in any race, not just warforged. As the basis for spontaneous arcane casting, channel energy, paladin abilities, Use Magic Device and so on, CHA is useful for far more than just social skills. Thus, I choose to represent the social ineptitude of the warforged with a separate penalty to Diplomacy and Sense Motive instead. They're perfectly capable of channeling energy or casting sorcerer spells, but when it comes to interpersonal social dynamics, they're in unfamiliar territory. This ineptitude goes both ways, of course, so warforged get a bonus to Bluff since normal humanoids find their largely immobile faces almost impossible to 'read'.
My point is that Warforged are made, not born, so there is no such thing as a "racial standard" or "general tendency" for them. At all. Elves, dwarves and shifters all have genetics (or whatever passes for genetics in a world like D&D) that create these tendencies, but warforged are man-made and are thus built to spec. By this, I mean that House Cannith doesn't create a Fighter Model and then retrofit it to the Rogue Model anymore than Ford tries to turn F-150s into Mustangs. They are simply built differently from the ground up.
No, they used creation forges activated from Schema, the nearest things to mass production that a fantasy world has ever seen. If they were individually crafted for purpose, I could agree but as they were turned out on a production line, I can't. It may be a very advanced production line allowing for some changes but it's still a production line.
And lets not forget, genetics create tendencies, but they also create variation. Many warforged were not created for the purposes they found for themselves, the Cannith creators were often surprised by the way that the warforged evolved after creation. Most did what their creators intended, but some came out and were completely different to the expectations of them. No-one seems to have intended to make warforged clerics, for example, they just happened. The warforged fascinate the Kalashtar because they don't think that House Cannith put a soul in their specifications, they cannot deny the warforged have them.
In short, warforged may not be built in the same way as living beings with genetics, and may not have been intended that way, but that's how they turned out.
Of course that's just my point of view, but I feel that as they had a net -2 to their stats before Pathfinder, and a reduced Wisdom and Charisma were part of that, some elements of that should remain. In my idea of an upgrade I decided that they should have a net +0, and that the most logical stats they should be strong in as living constructs should be strength and constitution, not just constitution, so I kept the penalties to wisdom and charisma. However, this is just my interpretation.
For what it's worth, I (am planning to) run a Pathfinder game using the Eberron setting, and have run a few Eberron 3.5 games in the past, so my POV is couched firmly in the Eberron setting itself.
Me too! It works brilliantly. The Dreamscarred psionics work for Pathfinder is invaluable, as Eberron has a great deal of psionics in it's make-up.
Also, it doesn't help that I strongly dislike the use of -2 CHA as a short-hand for social ineptitude in any race, not just warforged. As the basis for spontaneous arcane casting, channel energy, paladin abilities, Use Magic Device and so on, CHA is useful for far more than just social skills. Thus, I choose to represent the social ineptitude of the warforged with a separate penalty to Diplomacy and Sense Motive instead. They're perfectly capable of channeling energy or casting sorcerer spells, but when it comes to interpersonal social dynamics, they're in unfamiliar territory. This ineptitude goes both ways, of course, so warforged get a bonus to Bluff since normal humanoids find their largely immobile faces almost impossible to 'read'.
You might not like it, but that's the way everyone plays it. I'm not wild about it either, but that's the way the game is. Charisma is a in part rating for the extent to which we impose our personality on others, and in part a rating of our social aptitude.
In the case of the warforged, they were soldiers, and the perfect soldier is self-effacing (he subjects himself to the dominance of the group over personal ego), does not need to talk much, and follows orders. That sums up both aspects of low charisma, as I see it, so warforged having low charisma is not inappropriate, even if it isn't desirable either. In short, warforged are not just socially inept, they have less concept of individuality as well, thinking in terms of 'us' rather than 'me'. This is really highlighted in races of Eberron, that warforged often lack not just social graces, but suppress or do not develop easily the force of personality that comes naturally to other races as it is seen as detrimental to the functioning of an efficient military unit (of course it isn't always, and leaders need it, but that wasn't how the makers were thinking). You can also justify it on the principal that while warforged are physically fully formed, in terms of social and emotional development they are far behind their organic counterparts as they do not go through a childhood as such (boot camp really doesn't substitute!).
As I said above, I think there are ample justifications for keeping warforged with penalties to charisma and wisdom, but that doesn't mean you have to - it's just my point of view. In terms of mechanics, though, I would echo the sentiment that as a race warforged are powerful, and should stay at a net +0, just as when the standard was +0 they were at a net -2.