Eberron Races


Conversions

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Here's my stab at converting races from Eberron. I haven't done the Kalashtar as that would require a stab at psionics. I need feedback.

Changling:
• +2 to Charisma but -2 to Constitution, Changlings have a knack for knowing just what to say but their malleable nature makes them somewhat unstable.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium or Small (+1 to attack and AC, -1 to CMB and CMD, +4 to Stealth), see below.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Minor Shape Change (Su): Changelings may change their appearance as per the Alter Self spell as a Full Round Action. This may be done at will and last until the Changling changes her shape again. This gives a Changling the ability to change her size, sex, and even the appearance of her age as well as other minor cosmetic changes. This doesn’t give her the ability to change her clothing or equipment. A Changeling reverts to her true form when killed, but not when unconscious, and can be detected with a True Seeing spell. Changlings gain +10 to Disguise checks and suffer no penalties to checks to appear as a different race or sex.
• +2 to save vs Sleep and Charm effects. Changelings have slippery minds.
• +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive. Changlings are naturally empathic.

Shifter
• +2 to Dexterity, -2 to Intelligence. Shifters are agile but their feral natures interfere with rational thought.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Shifting (Su): As a Swift action a Shifter may call upon their Lycanthropic nature. Shifting may be used a number of rounds a day equal to her Constitution bonus before Shifting + 3. Each Shifter Feat the Shifter takes increases the number of rounds she can remain Shifted by 2. While Shifted she gains the benefit of her Shifter Trait, chosen at character creation.
• Low Light Vision: Shifter’s see twice as far in low light.
• +2 to Acrobatics and Climb checks. Shifters are naturally athletic.
Shifter Traits:
• Beast Hide: +2 Constitution and Natural Armor.
• Long Tooth: +2 Strength and gains a natural bite attack that deals 1d6 and add +1 damage/4 levels. May be used as a secondary attack at -5 penalty.
• Cliff Walker: +2 Dexterity and gains a Climb speed of 20ft.
• Razor Claw: + 2 Strength and gains claws which are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d4 points of damage each and add +1 damage/4 levels.
• Longstrider: +2 Dexterity and +10ft to Speed.
• Wild Hunt: +2 Constitution and gains the Scent ability.

Warforged
• +2 to Constitution, -2 to Charisma. Warforged are sturdier then most races but aren’t known for their individualism.
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): don’t feel like writing it all out.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning.


I would give each of the races another +2 to a stat to bring them in line with standard PFRPG races.

Maybe Int or Wis for changelings (not really sure here). Strength for shifters and probably for warforged as well.


fanguad wrote:

I would give each of the races another +2 to a stat to bring them in line with standard PFRPG races.

Maybe Int or Wis for changelings (not really sure here). Strength for shifters and probably for warforged as well.

I didn't do that because of the power of their racial abilities. Shifters gain +2 to a stat when they are shifted and Changlings get +2 Str or Dex, depending on their size.


Skaorn wrote:
I didn't do that because of the power of their racial abilities. Shifters gain +2 to a stat when they are shifted and Changlings get +2 Str or Dex, depending on their size.

Shifters only get the boost for a few rounds per day - less if they don't max Con.

I wonder if you forgot some text under Changlings - there's no mention of Str or Dex bonuses.

I thought the Eberron races were pretty well balanced compared to the standard 3.5 races. As such, they'd need a little bump for PFRPG to stay balanced.


fanguad wrote:

I wonder if you forgot some text under Changlings - there's no mention of Str or Dex bonuses.

It's part of Alter Self.

Dark Archive

For the Beast Hide Shifter trait, is that a +1 Natural Armor while shifted?

Given the nature of the Shifting power, I'd be tempted to double the duration (2x Con +2 rds / feat), just to better suit the more enduring nature of some Pathfinder classes.


Set wrote:

For the Beast Hide Shifter trait, is that a +1 Natural Armor while shifted?

Given the nature of the Shifting power, I'd be tempted to double the duration (2x Con +2 rds / feat), just to better suit the more enduring nature of some Pathfinder classes.

Sorry, it's supposed to be +2, wasn't thinking when I wrote it. Really all the traits are are a lazily writen out version of the ones in the Eberron campaign setting. These, and the ones listed in races of Eberron can probably be taken word for word from those books.

Shifting duration, I wanted to keep around what rage is to start with. I was thinking of giving them a natural progression like Con + 3 + 1/2 character level, rounded down. I thought I'd start low to get people's reaction


fanguad wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
I didn't do that because of the power of their racial abilities. Shifters gain +2 to a stat when they are shifted and Changlings get +2 Str or Dex, depending on their size.

Shifters only get the boost for a few rounds per day - less if they don't max Con.

I wonder if you forgot some text under Changlings - there's no mention of Str or Dex bonuses.

I thought the Eberron races were pretty well balanced compared to the standard 3.5 races. As such, they'd need a little bump for PFRPG to stay balanced.

Keep in mind that Shifters and Warforged are also loosing an additional -2 each. As it is I think I over powered Changlings.


I wouldn't give a Con penalty to Changelings, for biological and morphology reasons.
Like a doppelganger, a creature changing shapes shouldn't have real weak spots.

I would give Str +2 and Con +2 to the Warforged. These are actually the 4th edition stats. A creature forged for war surely should be strong.
But i agree on the Cha penalty.

I would change the Shifter's Wildhunt Con bonus for Wis, that fits better the idea.


a few things changeling did not use alter self but disguise self. And as half human a +2 to any one score would fit.

shifter I would go +2 dex, +2 wis,-2 cha as they are not the most friendly and they have the wild side

Kalashtar as half human would also gain a +2 to any one score

Warforged I would go +2 con,+2 int, -wis as they pick up things fast and do not know how to interact with the world around them

I pretty much went half humans +2 any score like the half elf/orc and a good physical , 1 good mental and one poor stat like the rest


Seldriss wrote:

I wouldn't give a Con penalty to Changelings, for biological and morphology reasons.

Like a doppelganger, a creature changing shapes shouldn't have real weak spots.

I would give Str +2 and Con +2 to the Warforged. These are actually the 4th edition stats. A creature forged for war surely should be strong.
But i agree on the Cha penalty.

I would change the Shifter's Wildhunt Con bonus for Wis, that fits better the idea.

I agree with you on the Con penalty, though I needed to balance out the fact that they can change between a +2 Strength and Dexterity whenever they want. I suppose I could just do away with the Cha bonus and Con penalty.

Warforged I have two problems with. One is I don't want to give them two physical stat bumps. The second is that Living Construct gives them a bunch of immunities. In the current 3.5 game I'm in we have 3 Warforged and there is a lot of things they can just ignore. Given the choice between that or a strength bump (as I believe 4e ones loose a lot of the immunities) I'd rather keep the original myself.

As for Wild Hunt, that's the way it is in the Eberron Campaign book. They do have Wisdom boosting traits out of Races of Eberron though.


About Warforged, one limitation i give them to balance their immunities is a disadvantage towards healing and potions :
- Healing spells cure them only of half the HP amount. For full effect, only the construct versions work.
- The Healing skill doesn't work on them. Instead use Craft or Mechanics.
- They don't recover naturally (their metal plates do not repair themselves like a T-1000).
- They cannot drink potions or use ointments, as they are not organic. But there are some rare oils made for them.
As a result, they are tough to put down, but they have also hard time to recover from their "wounds".


To point out warforged are mostly organic with a plating of metal and stone. That would give them the +2 AC. They are mostly livewood. And in 3.5 could use potions. They can even eat and have a taste sense.

Sorry If I am not being helpful. Am unsure if your converting or reworking them from the floor up.

Scarab Sages

I give the warforged a +2 to any stat like a human, and -2 CHA. (so it can cancel out the CHA penalty.)

I also allow them to choose their plating since it can never be changed... so the burning their only feat to get Adamantine, Darkwood or Mithril is just a nasty blow for something you're stuck with for your entire adventuring life. (unless you become a reforged of course.)


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

To point out warforged are mostly organic with a plating of metal and stone. That would give them the +2 AC. They are mostly livewood. And in 3.5 could use potions. They can even eat and have a taste sense.

Sorry If I am not being helpful. Am unsure if your converting or reworking them from the floor up.

Oh, for my part that's a rework.

Officially, yes, they can drink potions.
That's a houserule change i made (i don't give them smell or taste either).


ok was just wondering because some of the OP stuff was total rebuild not really converted. I just posted the thing about them being organic as most people forget they are 90% organic


Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

I give the warforged a +2 to any stat like a human, and -2 CHA. (so it can cancel out the CHA penalty.)

I also allow them to choose their plating since it can never be changed... so the burning their only feat to get Adamantine, Darkwood or Mithril is just a nasty blow for something you're stuck with for your entire adventuring life. (unless you become a reforged of course.)

Personally I like your suggestion for the bonus, and might do that myself. I'd also allow players to put the +2 in Cha to cancel the penalty. Purists might not like this option though, as it seems to be a bone of contention with Half Orcs.

I don't mind the Armor Feats, I would allow players to switch out the armor for a cost in GP. One other thing we did was allow Slam attacks to use the metal type (We had Mithral counting as both silver and cold iron). As for Darkwood, those players where going for Druid so they could eventually become a Dinobot, so it was worth it for them.


Seldriss wrote:

About Warforged, one limitation i give them to balance their immunities is a disadvantage towards healing and potions :

- Healing spells cure them only of half the HP amount. For full effect, only the construct versions work.
- The Healing skill doesn't work on them. Instead use Craft or Mechanics.
- They don't recover naturally (their metal plates do not repair themselves like a T-1000).
- They cannot drink potions or use ointments, as they are not organic. But there are some rare oils made for them.
As a result, they are tough to put down, but they have also hard time to recover from their "wounds".

On the otherhand they had another spell type that could heal them as well, which usually gets picked up by the wizard or artificer. I believe they could also use skills like Craft (Construct) to make repairs. It does mean a little extra work, but most parties are more then willing to chip in on this as you've got some one who's always on watch.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

a few things changeling did not use alter self but disguise self. And as half human a +2 to any one score would fit.

shifter I would go +2 dex, +2 wis,-2 cha as they are not the most friendly and they have the wild side

Kalashtar as half human would also gain a +2 to any one score

Warforged I would go +2 con,+2 int, -wis as they pick up things fast and do not know how to interact with the world around them

I pretty much went half humans +2 any score like the half elf/orc and a good physical , 1 good mental and one poor stat like the rest

I give up, I've had 3 replies to your post eaten.


So I agree with the limitations that were thrown out, but one of the things that I always like about warforged, and want to make sure is kept is the poison immunity. And I liked that they didn't breathe. Made for very interesting roleplay opportunities. As well as party challenges, like why does everyone keep passing out but the warforged in that room???


Here are some modified versions of the races.

Changling:
Bonus provided by Minor Shape Change. +2 Strength when Medium Sized, +2 Dex when Small.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium or Small (+1 to attack and AC, -1 to CMB and CMD, +4 to Stealth), see below.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Minor Shape Change (Su): Changelings may change their appearance as per the Alter Self spell as a Full Round Action. This may be done at will and last until the Changling changes her shape again. This gives a Changling the ability to change her size, sex, and even the appearance of her age as well as other minor cosmetic changes. This doesn’t give her the ability to change her clothing or equipment. A Changeling reverts to her true form when killed, but not when unconscious, and can be detected with a True Seeing spell. Changlings gain +10 to Disguise checks and suffer no penalties to checks to appear as a different race or sex.
• +2 to save vs Sleep and Charm effects. Changelings have slippery minds.
• +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive. Changlings are naturally empathic.

Shifter
• +2 to Dexterity, -2 to Intelligence. Shifters are agile but their feral natures interfere with rational thought.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Shifting (Su): As a Swift action a Shifter may call upon their Lycanthropic nature. Shifting may be used a number of rounds a day equal to her Constitution bonus before Shifting + 3 + 1/every two character levels. Each Shifter Feat the Shifter takes increases the number of rounds she can remain Shifted by 2. While Shifted she gains the benefit of her Shifter Trait, chosen at character creation.
• Low Light Vision: Shifter’s see twice as far in low light.
• +2 to Acrobatics and Climb checks. Shifters are naturally athletic.
Shifter Traits:
• Beast Hide: +2 Constitution and Natural Armor.
• Long Tooth: +2 Strength and gains a natural bite attack that deals 1d6 and add +1 damage/4 levels. May be used as a secondary attack at -5 penalty.
• Cliff Walker: +2 Dexterity and gains a Climb speed of 20ft.
• Razor Claw: + 2 Strength and gains claws which are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d4 points of damage each and add +1 damage/4 levels.
• Longstrider: +2 Dexterity and +10ft to Speed.
• Wild Hunt: +2 Constitution and gains the Scent ability.

Warforged
+2 to any stat (even Charisma), -2 to Charisma. Warforged were built for a variety of tasks but many people find them alien.
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): don’t feel like writing it all out.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Skaorn wrote:

Here are some modified versions of the races.

Changling:
Bonus provided by Minor Shape Change. +2 Strength when Medium Sized, +2 Dex when Small.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium or Small (+1 to attack and AC, -1 to CMB and CMD, +4 to Stealth), see below.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Minor Shape Change (Su): Changelings may change their appearance as per the Alter Self spell as a Full Round Action. This may be done at will and last until the Changling changes her shape again. This gives a Changling the ability to change her size, sex, and even the appearance of her age as well as other minor cosmetic changes. This doesn’t give her the ability to change her clothing or equipment. A Changeling reverts to her true form when killed, but not when unconscious, and can be detected with a True Seeing spell. Changlings gain +10 to Disguise checks and suffer no penalties to checks to appear as a different race or sex.
• +2 to save vs Sleep and Charm effects. Changelings have slippery minds.
• +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive. Changlings are naturally empathic.

I think the problem you're having with the Changeling is that you're trying to use alter self, which is a bit too powerful for an LA +0 race. changing it back to Disguise Self, and put in the +2 to any for stats.


Enlight_Bystand wrote:


I think the problem you're having with the Changeling is that you're trying to use alter self, which is a bit too powerful for an LA +0 race. changing it back to Disguise Self, and put in the +2 to any for stats.

After looking over the Alter Self I'd definately put in the restriction that you could only have one special quality (Darkvision, Scent, etc) at a time, like I thought the spell already did. Otherwise I don't think it is that powerful.


I think I'd do the warforged like this:

Warforged
• +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Wisdom , -2 to Charisma. Warforged have the power and durability of constructs, and are fast learners, but have difficulties interacting with others.
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): Keep as it is.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning.
• Bonus Feat: Warforged recieve one bonus feat at 1st level. They may select this feat from any Warforged specific racial feat.

I think that might be a good way to do them. The stat bonuses and penalties keep them in line with the original writeup, while boosting them in a manner similar to what happened to the other races for PF. Giving them a bonus feat to take a warforged feat of choice allows them to have some kind of uniqueness in their construction.

Contributor

Honestly, I think one of the things Pathfinder did best was to not have any PC races have -INT or -WIS, and only one, the dwarves, have -CHA.

I'd give the Kalashtar and Changelings both a +2 to whatever they want, same as Humans, Half Orcs and Half Elves (since the Kalashtar and Changelings are both half-humans), give a +2 STR +2 Con -2 Cha to the Warforged, and finish off with +2 Dex +2 Str -2 Cha to the Shifters.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

Honestly, I think one of the things Pathfinder did best was to not have any PC races have -INT or -WIS, and only one, the dwarves, have -CHA.

Mind if I ask why?


Pathfinder made stats a bit standard. 1 physical bump, and 1 mental bump. with one -2 somewhere. Save humans and half humans. I myself plan to stick to that

Scarab Sages

Skaorn wrote:
Enlight_Bystand wrote:


I think the problem you're having with the Changeling is that you're trying to use alter self, which is a bit too powerful for an LA +0 race. changing it back to Disguise Self, and put in the +2 to any for stats.
After looking over the Alter Self I'd definately put in the restriction that you could only have one special quality (Darkvision, Scent, etc) at a time, like I thought the spell already did. Otherwise I don't think it is that powerful.

yeah, Disguise self is powerful enough as it is...


Here's my take on the Eberron races:

Changelings : +2 to any one stat - They are half human. I would not change the basis of their Minor Change Shape from disguise self to alter self

Kalashtar : +2 to any one stat - they combine an incorporeal entity with a human body.

Shifters : I would drop the -2 Int and add +2 Wis. I keep the -2 Cha because the description indicates poor social interaction, but nothing truly indicates lesser intelligence. +2 Wis fits with their lycantrhope heritage. Alternately I could see going with the half human +2 to any stat instead as they are described as descended from humans and lycanthropes, but it starts to feel overused.

I would leave the shifting as it is instead of trying to convert it from uses/day to rounds/day due to the interaction with shifter feats and the fact that racial abilities have all remained uses/day.

Warforged : I would just drop the -2 to Wis. At most I might consider a +2 to Int to keep with the Pathfinder +2 Physical, +2 Mental, -2 any stat. Sorting through their racial features makes it difficult to determine if they are stronger or weaker than other races balance wise, but I feel they lean toward stronger and dropping one stat modifier is fair.

On a side note:

As for a lack of -2 to Int and Wis in Pathfinder, this is more consistent with racial descriptions. Only primitive and particularly bestial races would have a -2 Int. Races with a -2 Wis would be characterized by recklessness.


Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:


yeah, Disguise self is powerful enough as it is...

Yep even with disguise self they could change freaking sex. I don't mean look like. I main the whole 9 yards. Girls to fully functioning boys and boys to girls with working pluming.

Yeah minor shape change ability

Scarab Sages

Krigare wrote:

I think I'd do the warforged like this:

Warforged
• +2 to Strength, +2 to Constitution, +2 to Intelligence, -2 to Wisdom , -2 to Charisma. Warforged have the power and durability of constructs, and are fast learners, but have difficulties interacting with others.
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): Keep as it is.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning.
• Bonus Feat: Warforged recieve one bonus feat at 1st level. They may select this feat from any Warforged specific racial feat.

I think that might be a good way to do them. The stat bonuses and penalties keep them in line with the original writeup, while boosting them in a manner similar to what happened to the other races for PF. Giving them a bonus feat to take a warforged feat of choice allows them to have some kind of uniqueness in their construction.

+2 to 3 stats is too powerful, I prefer my +2 any, -2 Cha for forged.


Our choice for stat bonuses for warforged was +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom. Warforged excel at physical labor, such so that some nations keep them in indentured servitude/slavery, while some other communities favor their destruction, specifically because they take labor jobs away from "normal" folk.

Scarab Sages

Anburaid wrote:
Our choice for stat bonuses for warforged was +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom. Warforged excel at physical labor, such so that some nations keep them in indentured servitude/slavery, while some other communities favor their destruction, specifically because they take labor jobs away from "normal" folk.

Too powerful still, why would anyone in you game not play a warforged melee type? Including a Paladin. And a WF barbarian with those stats and immunity to fatigue is just brutal...


I agree 2 physical bumps are way to powerful.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I agree 2 physical bumps are way to powerful.

Count me in agreement as well. The immunity to fatigue, slam attack, and not needing sleep are already a huge benefit to melee types. Boosting both Str and Con on top of that screams +1 level adjustment to me.

But let's not forget the most important rule of Pathfinder:

This is your game.

This isn't like arguing over what the core rules say. There is not nor is there likely to ever be an "official" conversion.


Freesword wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
I agree 2 physical bumps are way to powerful.

Count me in agreement as well. The immunity to fatigue, slam attack, and not needing sleep are already a huge benefit to melee types. Boosting both Str and Con on top of that screams +1 level adjustment to me.

But let's not forget the most important rule of Pathfinder:

This is your game.

This isn't like arguing over what the core rules say. There is not nor is there likely to ever be an "official" conversion.

:) of course! This is all just healthy debate.

I am of the opinion that a +2 to two physical attributes does not push them into LA+ terratory as much as their broad based immunities. Do they make good fighters, of course. That was their inteded purpose. But rarely does a player in my groups look at attributes alone as the sole deciding factor in choosing a race. Its usually the other stuff. No food an no sleep is certainly a plus but also is not huge unless you are playing a campaign set during a famine, and that is fairly circumstantial.

Part of the issue is that they do not have normal anatomy, which is neat and fun to play. But you could for example strip them of their immunity to energy drain and paralysis if you feel they are just too crazy awesome, without too much fuss.

Also with regards to light fortification, since sneak attack basically works on most creatures that are not uniform in consistancy, light fortification no longer applies to sneak attack. And I am not sure
constructs are still immune to crits so that might be
out the window too.

Grand Lodge

we gave changlelings the +2 to anystat warforged got +2 to anyother stat basicly we left thenmn the same gave a new bonus like all pathfinder one physical one mental..blah dee blah iam tired

Scarab Sages

The reason I changed the forged to give +2 any stat, -2 CHA, is because they are designed by their House Cannith masters, to perform specific functions. While a Warforged Fighter might have a +2 STR, the rare WF Wizard or Artificer will not.

Sczarni

Well this is my first post here, so how about shi for the warforged?

+2 Str +2 Con -2 Int -2 Cha

I know it kind of goes against the Pathfinder standart for racial stats, but as many have said before, warforged tend to be on the high end of the power curve as a race. So I figured adding an Int penalty makes it hard for them to get combat expertice, and making them unable to acces many feats that have them as prerequisites.

PS. The rest I would really just leave it as it is

Sczarni

Why not someone from pathfinder dev team come up with their view on the matter? A lot of good ideas here but still too many conflicting opinions. I think they only could come up with whats best for pathfinder system.
That would be awsome if they did since i plan to include warforged AND shifters in my homebrew campaing setting.

I don't think it would be a good idea to get their LA by +1

Scarab Sages

Vaahama wrote:

Why not someone from pathfinder dev team come up with their view on the matter? A lot of good ideas here but still too many conflicting opinions. I think they only could come up with whats best for pathfinder system.

That would be awesome if they did since i plan to include warforged AND shifters in my homebrew campaign setting.

I don't think it would be a good idea to get their LA by +1

I don't think they can have a voice in this matter, that would be a breach of IP, because it could be seen as an endorsement. In the end it will have to be what works for you as DM.


Frerezar wrote:

Well this is my first post here, so how about shi for the warforged?

+2 Str +2 Con -2 Int -2 Cha

I know it kind of goes against the Pathfinder standart for racial stats, but as many have said before, warforged tend to be on the high end of the power curve as a race. So I figured adding an Int penalty makes it hard for them to get combat expertice, and making them unable to acces many feats that have them as prerequisites.

PS. The rest I would really just leave it as it is

The problem with +2 to Str and Con is that it makes them really attractive to warrior characters where other pathfinder races can excel at other mystical or warrior classes. A Dwarven Cleric or Druid is just as exceptional as a Dwarven Fighter or Barbarian. The bonuses you suggest would make Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue, and Bard unattractive while making Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, and even Ranger attractive.

I agree that Warforged, as is, are pretty good. I just wanted to get rid of one of the stat penalties to make them more attractive to other character concepts. I do like the +2 to any stat and -2 to Cha better though.


Skaorn wrote:
I agree that Warforged, as is, are pretty good. I just wanted to get rid of one of the stat penalties to make them more attractive to other character concepts. I do like the +2 to any stat and -2 to Cha better though.

I'm in agreement with you. The only thing holding me back from a +2 to any -2 Cha is that I don't like mixing a +2 any with any fixed bonus or penalty. I can't see dropping the -2 Cha as most warforged are just beginning to develop personality. I stick with the +2 Con seeing them as built as a "forced march all night, fight all day" counter to Karnathi undead troops. Not necessarily stronger, but able to keep going no matter what. Lacking in human frailty if you will.

Nothing in the description of them really calls for a -2 Wis, so it was an obvious choice to drop. It's not like they have an inherent recklessness.

Scarab Sages

Freesword wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
I agree that Warforged, as is, are pretty good. I just wanted to get rid of one of the stat penalties to make them more attractive to other character concepts. I do like the +2 to any stat and -2 to Cha better though.

I'm in agreement with you. The only thing holding me back from a +2 to any -2 Cha is that I don't like mixing a +2 any with any fixed bonus or penalty. I can't see dropping the -2 Cha as most warforged are just beginning to develop personality. I stick with the +2 Con seeing them as built as a "forced march all night, fight all day" counter to Karnathi undead troops. Not necessarily stronger, but able to keep going no matter what. Lacking in human frailty if you will.

Nothing in the description of them really calls for a -2 Wis, so it was an obvious choice to drop. It's not like they have an inherent recklessness.

I think they originally put the -2 Wisdom in to emulate their lack of experience in the world, rather than foolhardiness.


Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:
I think they originally put the -2 Wisdom in to emulate their lack of experience in the world, rather than foolhardiness.

I do believe you are correct.

I still consider the -2 Wis a less defining characteristic than -2 Cha. Leaving them at +2 Con, -2 Cha, and their other benefits intact seem to me on par with the core Pathfinder races despite not having a net +2 ability mod.

As there probably will never be an "official" warforged conversion, this is merely a voicing of opinions. Right is whatever works for your group.


Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:
Freesword wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
I agree that Warforged, as is, are pretty good. I just wanted to get rid of one of the stat penalties to make them more attractive to other character concepts. I do like the +2 to any stat and -2 to Cha better though.

I'm in agreement with you. The only thing holding me back from a +2 to any -2 Cha is that I don't like mixing a +2 any with any fixed bonus or penalty. I can't see dropping the -2 Cha as most warforged are just beginning to develop personality. I stick with the +2 Con seeing them as built as a "forced march all night, fight all day" counter to Karnathi undead troops. Not necessarily stronger, but able to keep going no matter what. Lacking in human frailty if you will.

Nothing in the description of them really calls for a -2 Wis, so it was an obvious choice to drop. It's not like they have an inherent recklessness.

I think they originally put the -2 Wisdom in to emulate their lack of experience in the world, rather than foolhardiness.

Warforged had +2 Con and -2 to Wis and Cha originally.

Sovereign Court

I did a small conversion for the Changelings. I only gave them a single +2 to one stat. However, I let them move the stat around as they wished but only a single change in a 24 hour period.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:


yeah, Disguise self is powerful enough as it is...

Yep even with disguise self they could change freaking sex. I don't mean look like. I main the whole 9 yards. Girls to fully functioning boys and boys to girls with working pluming.

Yeah minor shape change ability

Sorry seeker, but you've got it wrong. With disguise self, you only appear different, even if assuming a guise of the opposite gender. A man using this to disguise himself as a woman, is going to have difficulty convincing another man that he's a woman - if the other man feels the area where the bewb would be, he feels nothing, because the spell does not provide tactile sensations.

Alter self can do this, but not disguise self.

Grand Lodge

Changelings adopt minor physical alterations, not illusory. You reference disguise self to determine what changes they can make, but those changes are physical as per ECS.


Phalazar wrote:
I did a small conversion for the Changelings. I only gave them a single +2 to one stat. However, I let them move the stat around as they wished but only a single change in a 24 hour period.

I like it! If I were DMing this rule I would have the player tell me what race he is emulating though, and why the bonus applies. Although I suppose there is no reason an elf can't be hearty, and dwarf charismatic.

although for simplicities sake I would give them no attribute bonus, and make that +2 a special feature, like a +2 inherent bonus you can throw around, so that you apply the bonus only when you have changed shape.

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