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Kthulhu wrote:
If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh and sew our skin into their clothing. And if we're very, very lucky? They'll do it in that order.

I can see everyone agrees those dudes are the embodiment of Chaotic Evil. :)


Bomanz wrote:

I know this makes me seems stupid as hell, so please forgive but....

I was under the impression that a druid could have more than one animal companion at a time??

That was changed from 3.0 to 3.5, the druid got one improved animal instead of the x HD animal friendship spell effect (the threw out that spell in 3.5). Personally, I was never a fan of that change, and in my campaigns houserule it back. It allows for the druid to acquire a changing menagerie of friends.

Bomanz wrote:


I seem to recall that from old AD&D2e games, and I was rereading the rules for wizards and druids and it says nothing really conclusive about it other than how to get another one if your first one/starting one died.

Dismissal of familiars has always been an unclear point. I guess Paizo didn't want to break tradition there. ;)

Bomanz wrote:


Further, I was reading the "Improved Familiar" feat (pg. 127 PRG), and it specifically reads:

"This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar"

with a prereq of:

"ability to acquire a new familiar..."

First level wizards are required to choose EITHER a bond with an item or a familiar. When you choose an item you never get the ability to acquire a familiar, so the feat would be worthless to the wizard in question.

Bomanz wrote:


Now, reading under the druid heading, I found that a druid can dismiss an animal companion from service, but I didnt find anything specifically about that under a wizard...

The wizard no longer suffers any penalties for the loss of his familiar, so I guess a wizard could just snap his familiar's neck wait 2 weeks before getting his new and improved familiar

Bomanz wrote:


So, ultimately, can a wizzy start the game with his focus item, and then when he gets a new feat take "Improved familiar" and choose an improved familiar as well?

No, see above.

Bomanz wrote:


Can a wizzy dismiss his familiar and summon a new one at will?

Nothing says that you can, but nothing says that you can't. I guess it's your choice, but like I said, no penalties for the "accidental" death of your familiar... ;)

Considering you can flavor feats any way you like why not make the Improved Familiar feat a ritual that transforms your old familiar into the new form? The original bonding of the familiar transforms it from Animal to Magical Beast, so why not take it one step further? Makes more sense to me that way.

Bomanz wrote:


Can a druid have more than one animal companion (or a ranger too, for that matter) at a time??

Nope, not since they threw out the Animal Friendship spell

Bomanz wrote:


I know this sounds so totally nooBtard-ish, but I am totally drawing a blank here.

Hope I could help.


ProfessorCirno wrote:

Could someone show me where tieflings are overpowered? They get +5 energy resistance and can cast darkness. Elves get +2 against SR, a handful of increased skill checks, and extra saves against a full class of magic.

Being an outsider no longer matters. It used to be important because of how Alter Self worked, but that's gone.

Being an outsider also makes them immune to all spells affecting humanoids, if I'm not mistaken.


Heh. I fondly think back on such characters as

Vorgren Mooorg - Minotaur Ranger/Wizard, dual-wielding a greatsword and battleaxe, doing about as much damage in melee as a well-cast meteor swarm, who was also part of the Harpers. Boy, was he munchkin. (AD&D2)

Grylock the Destroyer("...but my friends call me Grue") - Katana-wielding Half-Fiend Human CN Fighter/Sorcerer, spawn of Graz'zt destined to end the world, who was actually a rather nice guy but sometimes got "urges" due to his demonic heritage. (D&D3)

Tilurion Llanowar - Grey Elven LG Bladesinger, twin brother to Shevan Llanowar, Grey Elven CN Wild Mage. Much hilarious roleplay ensued during our reclaiming of Myth Drannor. (AD&D2)

Thinker - Dwarven Diviner/Loremaster who was an outcast from his clan for studying Wizardry and being an unbearable smartass. I think I even once lectured our Fighter how to hold his sword right. During combat. (D&D3)


Kthulhu wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
I'm not sure why people feel Medieval/Renaissance people didn't tack on Greek and Latin prefixes to make new words. It's not like antimater is the first use of "anti"
Well, and can't speak for the entire anti-antipaladin group, but the reason I don't like the term is that it defines the class as simply the opposite of the paladin. I'd rather the class have some actual flavor of it's own, as opposed to simply being a paladin with the terms "lawful" and "good" search/replaced with "chaotic" and "evil". But even if it does, labeling it as the antipaladin implies that it does not.

I think "Reaver" is the word that would most describe the polar opposite of a Paladin. Think Firefly ;)


mdt wrote:


Again, while the whole 'No fatigue, doesn't sleep' is nice, it's not really any combat effective thing.

Personally, I think the 'no fatigue' thing in and of itself is pretty damn strong. Ask any Barbarian who has to wait until Level 17 for Tireless Rage, which Warforged Barbarians get as a minor side-effect of their racial subtype. :)

mdt wrote:


Grrr,
Actually, that's a typo from copy/pasting the Construct paragraph from the Bestiary entry. :) That shouldn't be in there.

You are excused ;)


mdt wrote:


Warforged
• +2 to any one Physical, +2 to any one Mental (Including Charisma), -2 Charisma.

while i understand you wanting to stick with the pathfinder standard of "one mental, one physical or one anywhere if part human", i think with the additions of the powers granted by the living construct type they just become too strong in comparison to other races

mdt wrote:
and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

WHOA! You do realize this makes them virtually immune to all death magic? I would argue that such all time favorite save-or-dies as Finger of Death (Wizard 7, Druid 8) and Destruction (Cleric 7) target the life force, which a "living" construct certainly has, and don't rely an inducing a heart attack :)

If the sentience (as seems to be the case in your campaign) is derived from an inevitable mutation of the magical aura that originally animated it, and not a "life spark" as such, i would consider allowing dispel magic type spells to damage (EDIT: or disable, comparable to hold person) the construct (and woe to a construct hit by disjunction)


Mr.Fishy wrote:

Mr. Fishy is has seen the Assimir/Tiefling character before. At low levels the extra powers resist energy and spell like abilities can be a little unbalanced but they even out at low-mid level. A first level tiefling has an advantage. But the power gap closes pretty quickly.

Over powered? No. More powerful at fist level? A little. The classes will "usually" balance the party out after a few levels.

Considering I usually run low-level campaigns (and we are currently starting at first level with this DM), the low level effects are precisely what worries me(and him) a little.

Mr.Fishy wrote:


Mr. Fishy allows off stuff some times on the grounds of testing. If the new race, feat or rule is too unbalanced or more annoying than fun then it gets pulled, period.

Me, not a big fan of this. If I'm not sure if it'll work in the long run, I'm likely to disallow it, because pulling a character from an ongoing campaign opens continuity problems and is even more frustrating to the player than having his request denied up front, IMO.

Mr.Fishy wrote:


If the DM is uncomfortable talk to him/her outside the game. Ask the other players to back you up on a "trial basis". If the character is too much then pull it. Just be fair to the group and the poor DM. DM's are people too, soulless character eating monsterous people but people.

That wasn't really the issue, we all more or less agreed that it might be to powerful a race for a level 1 campaign. So, no danger of any hurt feeligns anywhere. The OP was more out of curiosity to see what experiences other people have with this.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Zaister wrote:
There are some DM tips in the Council of Thieves Player's Guide on how to handle this exact problem.
Indeed, there is a trait there that specifically powers down the tiefling to the level of the standard races, you could simply make the tiefling work like that.

True, seems like an elegant solution. Should I DM a game ayntime soon, I'll probably go with this solution.


We recently started with new characters in a homebrew campaign, and one of the players expressed interest in playing a tiefling. After looking over the Bestiary entry, my DM said "Huh. 3 energy resistances plus the other stuff seems a bit overpowered compared to the other races. If you want a somewhat monstrous PC, go with the Half-Orc, please".

Now, noone argued, as we could see his point. I believe in 3.5, the tiefling with the exact same abilities (i think) had a +1 LA (or was it +2?). Pathfinder doesn't seem to have LA per se anymore, and apparently covers that in the "Monsters as PCs" chapter in the bestiary.

My question is, did anyone else have a similar moment with his DM? How many of you feel the tiefling (and other no-racial HD races) are overpowered in comparison to the core races? If you feel they are not, why?


As far as conversion of the class itself is concerned, there's not a lot to do. Upgrade HD to d8. Add Linguistics as class skill, throw out concentration. Done.

The high DCs seem to be a staple of the class, though, so what you definitely need to do for an efficient Truenamer is:


  • make Intelligence your highest attribute. Nothing is more important
  • keep Truespeak maxed, having it as a class skill helps immensely :-)
  • get Skill Focus(Truespeak) at Level 1, which in Pathfinder has the added benefit of upgrading from a +3 bonus to a +6 bonus as soon as you hit level 10 - you did keep your Truespeak skill maxed, right? ;-)
  • get a Lesser Amulet of the Silver Tongue as soon as you can. Upgrade to Greater as soon as you can. Without this item, I would consider a Truenamer unplayable in the long run
  • always put your 4-level ability upgrades in Intelligence
  • get a Headband of Vast Intelligence as soon as you can and upgrade it to +6 as soon as possible.

Good luck ;-)


This is my take, based off the OP and the ECS:

Changeling:
• +2 to any one physical attribute, can be shifted to another physical attribute as a Full Round Action (no amount of shapeshiting will make a changeling smarter, wiser, or more charismatic)
• Subtype: Shapechanger
• Size: Medium
• Speed: 30ft.
• Natural Linguist: Changelings always treat Linguistics as a class skill
• Minor Shape Change (Su): Changelings may change their appearance as per the Disguise Self spell as a Full Round Action. This may be done at will and last until the Changling changes her shape again. Unlike Disguise Self, this is an actual physical change, not an illusion. This doesn’t give her the ability to change her clothing or equipment. A Changeling reverts to her true form when killed, but not when unconscious, and can be detected with a True Seeing spell. Changelings gain +10 to Disguise checks and suffer no penalties to checks to appear as a different race or sex.
• +2 to save vs Sleep and Charm effects. Changelings have slippery minds.
• +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive. Changlings are naturally empathic.

Comments:
- A shapeshifting attribute bonus to Charisma could be argued, but I see Charisma primarily as force of personality, not as a measure of looks, so I went with physical attributes only.
- Size: Medium -> the Minor Shape Change ability doesn't quite get them to small size, and definitely not to large - body mass is maintained on a shapeshift. They can slouch and walk with slightly bent legs to try to appear small - that's what the +10 disguise bonus is for ;-)
- No Darkvision or Lowlight Vision was a weakness they had in the ECS, so I decided to stick to that

Shifter
• +2 to Dexterity, +2 to Wisdom, -2 to Intelligence. Shifters are agile and instinctively in touch with their surroundings, but their feral natures interfere with rational thought.
• Subtype: Shapechanger.
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Shifting (Su): unchanged from ECS
• Low Light Vision: Shifters see twice as far in low light.
• +2 to Acrobatics and Climb checks. Shifters are naturally athletic.
Shifter Traits: unchanged, except for
• Cliffwalk: unchanged, but add +8 racial modifier to climb when shifted (due to climb speed)

Comments:
- Attributes: I always felt that the Shifter (and especially his Shifting racial ability) was a bit underpowered compared to the other races, so I threw in an additional +2 WIS. If you don't like it, throw it out.

Warforged
• +2 to Constitution, -2 to Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Warforged are sturdier then most races but have an alien mindset due to their construct heritage, which not only makes it hard for them to relate to other creatures, but also often makes them disregard what others species would call "common sense".
• Subtype: Living Construct (Ex): unchanged from ECS
• Size: Medium.
• Speed: 30ft.
• Composite Plating: +2 Armor bonus and 5% Spell Failure. Warforged cannot wear armor or robes. The Warforged may be enchanted like normal armor. Counts as Light Armor.
• Light Fortification: The composite plating is enchanted with the Light Fortification ability. 25% chance of ignoring a critical damage or Sneak Attack damage.
• Natural Slam Attack: 1d4 Bludgeoning

Comments:
- Attributes: The Living Construct subtype abilities are crazy strong, so I figured that keeping the old attribute modifiers would put them more on par with the rest of the races
- I kept Light Fortification due to warforged being built for durability in a combat situation, and to balance out the attribute hit I just gave them :-). If you're feeling very generous you might allow your player to choose a different +1(ish) armor enchantment, like Shadow for a scout-type warforged.

Kalashtar
(ham-fisted, because who needs Kalashtar without Psionics)
• +2 to any one mental attribute
everything else: unchanged

Comments:
- Type: could be argued to be Outsider(native), similar to Tieflings. They are, after all, an amalgam of incorporeal outsiders and human hosts. Of course, that opens a whole new can of worms.


Rezdave wrote:


Imagine taking a single level of Sorcerer and then being able to have magic missiles at your fingertips that continue to increase in damage as you take levels in Barbarian.

Alright, I've imagined it to the extreme. I saw a Barb 19/Sorc 1 who sacrificed Mighty Rage for the ability to to cast 3 Magic Missiles at 5d4+5 per day (up to 5 if he has good charisma). I don't see much of an imbalance there, considering he would probably still be better off hitting the BBEG approximately 25 times with his monster axe of evil-slaying doing about 60 damage on average per hit.

Rezdave wrote:


The class-levels mechanic is a counter-balance to this, and exists for an important reason. If you want your abilities to increase in a given Class Ability, then you rightly should spend XP increasing your level in that Class.

I disagree. The experience you gain ought to improve all the abilities you have. The tradeoff is already present in sacrificing the higher level class abilities that only specialists get. I see no real reason to additionally weaken the abilities you do gain. But I guess it comes down to personal preference.


Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


"Rogue level" is just a short way of saying "your class levels in rogue".

You mention that there is ambiguity, but I don't see it. How would you define "rogue level"? I would define it as "the class levels in rogue that my character has".

I think the problem is, is that you are reading the word "rogue" as "your rogue character". I don't think many make that interpretaion though... especially those that are multiclassed :)

Firstly, sorry for pulling this semi-ancient post back up, I just don't come to these boards very often...

@Kor: That's why I wrote it like that. No ambiguity. But in the book it says "rogue's" level (note the apostrophe) which could either mean the rogue's class level or his character level. I simply isn't clear to me (but then, I'm a syntax nut ;-) )

Zurai has a point when he quotes page 31 (I didn't find that sentence when I was frantically searching for an answer back when), but that is still (though somewhat less) ambiguous, because they say "most abilities", which kicks it back to individual (unclear) ability description again.

I'm willing to accept it as valid argument though, even though it requires anticipating author's intent instead of relying on what's actually written.

BUT: that brings me back to the point why I even asked: most of those abilities are nearly useless when multiclassing (which I use for rounding out character stories mostly, before you start accusing me of fighter/barbarian/ranger/rogue/sorcerer characters).

Example: I have this here rogue 3/fighter 5 character. He spent most of his youth on the streets living by his wits and payed fistfights before joining the army, where he never fully shedded his crooked ways, and now, while adventuring, he spends enough time with his rogue abilities to gain a rogue level every few fighter levels (i'm planning to get him to 4/x or possibly, maybe 5/x eventually). As a rogue he picked up Resiliency early on, fitting with the die-hard tough guy concept (yes, he actually has that feat, too). At level 20 he can therefore use it to gain 4 temporary hit points, because only his rogue levels trained him to pull through physical punishment by sheer force of will. After all, how would a fighter learn to do that... Wha'!?

And before you argue that it would therefore make sense with the thief/mage character: even a mage has a copious amount of hit points by the time he reaches level 20, and an ability like that would simply be a waste of an option slot, considering the damage enemies throw around by that time.

Add in the fact that a lot of characters will be going for a prestige class at some point and class abilities like that are useless in the high-end game, which brings up the question why one would pick them up at all, if one can instead pick up a feat or some other ability that isn't level dependent.

Basically, I think what I'm saying is that abilities that scale with class level instead of character level should be the exception rather than the rule, because the combat system otherwise punishes everyone that doesn't play a "pure" character. Dang, I shoulda brought this up during the playtest phase :)

Anyway, thanks for your input, I guess I'll have to convince my DM to houserule it.


See, that's just it. The syntax allows both interpretations, while formulating it as "equal to his rogue level" or "equal to his character level" would be free of ambiguity. No matter what actually is meant, formulating rules like that is something that should be avoided in the next printing.

Anyway, I'm still hoping I can get a response from someone who actually knows (or can prove his assumption with an example from something halfway official).


I noticed several abilities in the PRPG with a wording like this:

"a rogue with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the rogue’s level"

Especially for multi-class characters, that is a rather unclear wording. Is that supposed to mean class level or character level?

Note that there are also several abilities, like cleric domain powers, that explicitly reference the class level like this:

"This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to 1/2
your cleric level (minimum 1)"

Currently i'm assuming that if class level is meant, it is referenced as in the cleric example, otherwise it means character level. Any insights on that?