Correction. A party with a cleric (or paladin), in it gets channel energy. Cleric mostly just gets less.Seems like all classes got nice buffs except for cleric and perhaps wizard.Clerics got channel energy, which is finally useful (turning was only useful in some circumstances).
I wish that was true, I really do.
Ahh yes the burdon of a cleric. Wears plate, medium BAB, 2 good saves, full caster, wields the power of the GODS....and all anyone ever wants is a bandaid.
But that's for another thread :)
I blame it on MMO's. People have gotten lazy and don't want to bother with resource management. They just want to spam thier 'light damage' key until thier 'moderate' and 'heavy' damage powers recharge IMO.
Couldn't agree more. I had no desire for the HD change and still ignore it. Wizards should have crappy hp and eventually run out of spells. If that makes me an annoying old coot, oh well.
I welcome the HD change and stuff like elemental ray, and I hate MMOs, so there.
Correction. A party with a cleric (or paladin), in it gets channel energy. Cleric mostly just gets less.Seems like all classes got nice buffs except for cleric and perhaps wizard.Clerics got channel energy, which is finally useful (turning was only useful in some circumstances).
Don't pedant around here.
Plus, a cleric gets more because for every channel he uses, he saves up one cure or mass cure spell he'd had to make out of his other spells.
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I welcome the HD change and stuff like elemental ray, and I hate MMOs, so there.I blame it on MMO's. People have gotten lazy and don't want to bother with resource management. They just want to spam thier 'light damage' key until thier 'moderate' and 'heavy' damage powers recharge IMO.
Couldn't agree more. I had no desire for the HD change and still ignore it. Wizards should have crappy hp and eventually run out of spells. If that makes me an annoying old coot, oh well.
Seconding this as well. I think the HD change is a good idea as is infinite 0 level spells. I never saw why a wizard or sorc or any spellcaster should suddenly become COMPLETELY tapped out. I personally dig the change to allow a least a LITTLE magic to linger in them.
Likewise, I also hate MMOs and think they have a bad habit of destroying imagination and regressing roleplayers.
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I'm in the middle there. I don't like the infinite magic concept. I would like Wizards and Sorcerers to have a bit more ammo, particularly at low levels. Besides that, I would like if zero level spells, did a bit more. Like a ray of Frost that deals 1d3 (+1/2 Levels). I'd like them to feel a little more magic, but not be a character from Gauntlet.
I have only played the Rogue using Beta rules as our campaign has run the entire length of playtesting up to current. To be clear I have loved every single change to that class and could be perfectly content playing it for years....but the changes to the monk that I see here have me drooling at the oportunity to try one. I suppose there is some cumbersome rules in there due to straddling the line of compatability vs balance, but lets be honest if you can handle a spell caster are point pool based abilities really that much to complain about, or utilizing full bab for certain abilities for that matter. I doubt it will be a big problem to the vast majority of players.
Alright folks.. lets not get off topic discussing magic and clerics. There are other threads for such discussions.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
yes, Anyway. shuriken, is there an error in the preview, or you can use flurry with them?
It'd be cool if you could flurry in conjunction with the Razor-Sharp Chair Leg feat, allowing a Jackie Chan-type character who could lick the tar out of people with a stepladder or whatever else is handy.
It'd be cool if you could flurry in conjunction with the Razor-Sharp Chair Leg feat, allowing a Jackie Chan-type character who could lick the tar out of people with a stepladder or whatever else is handy.
That would be great to see. I would also like to see a monk that's tied up using the rope on his body to beat down the enemy...
Either that or his body while still tied up, "OUCH how does he keep doing that? He's kicking my butt with both hands AND HIS LEGS tied behind his back! RUN!"
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Hmmm... so people thought that Rage Points were too complex a mechanic, but Ki Points are okay? Uhm. Okay. I'm not against Ki Points (in fact, I was very much in favor of Point Pools for every class during the playtest), I just wonder why they didn't get ditched as well in favor of Ki Rounds (which would have made the mechanics more internally consistent).Rage points were more complex, you had to count points for on going rounds of activity, and points for specific actions, and then figure out how fatigued you were by the total number of points at the end.
Ki points are a lot less complex, because there is no form of "monk rage [super focus]." So it is just # of special skill uses per day.
Okay, so keeping track of HPs is hard, right? Or spell slots? I don't see Rage Points being any harder to track than those...
Okay, so keeping track of HPs is hard, right? Or spell slots? I don't see Rage Points being any harder to track than those...Hmmm... so people thought that Rage Points were too complex a mechanic, but Ki Points are okay? Uhm. Okay. I'm not against Ki Points (in fact, I was very much in favor of Point Pools for every class during the playtest), I just wonder why they didn't get ditched as well in favor of Ki Rounds (which would have made the mechanics more internally consistent).Rage points were more complex, you had to count points for on going rounds of activity, and points for specific actions, and then figure out how fatigued you were by the total number of points at the end.
Ki points are a lot less complex, because there is no form of "monk rage [super focus]." So it is just # of special skill uses per day.
I liked the rage points too, but Rage Points that's the Barbarian....and that's next week, Wednesday. I can't hardly wait. new PW, new feat, , new rage powers, better rage powers, rage points or not...but it's not this thread.
Monk level for Flurry hit-bonus? YASE.
Elemental add-ons for Amulets of Mighty Fists? This means I can finally...
AH YOO OH-KAY?! BUSTAH WOOOF!!!Oh HELL yes.
And thank Heaven for the AC Bonus speed-up.
Neither the amulet nor the new use of bracers of armor to better apply for Monks are NEW to D&D at all.
The Arms and Equipment Guide had a sidebar that gave rules on how to add and price bracers of armor with armor special qualities added (up to +5, so the max was +13 market bonus for bracers of armor).
In Magic of Faerun there's a magic item called bracers of striking that can be enhanced as a magic weapon and applies to unarmed attacks. Though lumping it into an amulet saves the arms slot space.
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Neither the amulet nor the new use of bracers of armor to better apply for Monks are NEW to D&D at all.
The Arms and Equipment Guide had a sidebar that gave rules on how to add and price bracers of armor with armor special qualities added (up to +5, so the max was +13 market bonus for bracers of armor).
I don't have the Arms and Equipment Guide, but I thought that currently bracers can only have special qualities that have multiple costs (ie +2 bonus cost) ... but not any of those that have a straight gp cost. If this is true, then it might be changed in someway in the new version.
OK, I'm not sure but didn't an 8th level monk only get 1d8 for unarmed strike damage in PF Beta? Has the damage scaling changed now so that they do more damage early? As I recall, they did not get 2d6 unarmed strike damage until level 12. Seems like a rather large jump in damage to me, given that the weapons other melee classes must use average 1d8 and never get to scale with level. With Vital Strike and Imp. Vital strike showing up much earlier in terms of pre-requisites, does anyone think this might be a bit much? I admit I may be way off in my thought process. Any comments or advice?
Paizo has started the ball rolling by slightly nerfing most of the save-or-instantly-be-taken-out-of-the-fight spells
My old buddy, your bias is showing again.
Many of the spells in Beta and in the previews have been much more than "slightly nerfed". Some of them have been nerfed so badly that they have dropped off my spell selection list entirely.
There are yet many to be seen. Some might not be nerfed at all, in which case, we'll see far more of those being prepared and cast, and far fewer of the nerfed ones. Some might indeed be "slightly nerfed" in which case those may become the spells of choice while the more heavily nerfed ones vanish with the dodo.
But I daresay that the notion that Paizo has only "slightly nerfed" some of these spells is a significant understatement.
All of which means there is already a significant step toward rebalancing SOS casters vs. melee characters. Before we start ringing the "my monk (or other melee character) needs to dash 60' across the battlefield and still paste your wizard 8 times this round" bell (I know, it wasn't you, Kirth, who said it), lets see just how much rebalancing might or might not still be needed.
Further analysis of the new monk system still has me going "huh?" a bit.
Beta, monk 20, vital strike
15/10/5 -> 15/15/15/10/5 2d10 -> 15/15/15/10 4d10
Beta, monk 15, fighter 5, improved vital strike
16/11/6/1 -> 16/16/16/11/6/1 2d10 -> 16/16/16/11 6d10 (6-60, avg 33)
Final, monk 20, vital strike
15/10/5 -> 18/18/13/13/3 2d10 -> 18/18/13/13 4d10
Final, monk 15, fighter 5, improved vital strike
16/11/6/1 -> ?/?/?/?/?/?/? 2d10 -> ?/?/?/? 6d10?
<speculation>
15/15/10/10/5/5/1 -2 (two hand penalties) +5(fighter) ???
18/18/13/13/8/8/3 2d8 (2d10, monk's belt, flurry)
18/18/13/13/8/8 4d8 (4d10, monk's belt, flurry vital strike)
18/18/13/13/8 6d8 (6d10, monk's belt, flurry improved vital strike)
</speculation>
As compared to Beta Barbarian/Fighter (greatsword)
20/15/10/5 2d6 -> 20/15/10 4d6 -> 20/15 6d6
Monkygrip
18/13/8/3 3d6 -> 18/13/8 6d6 - > 18/13 9d6
Perhaps I'm not right about how monk flurry stacks with other class BAB, but it looks like the monk is clearly outclassing.
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numbers crunched...
Characters who've gone 20 levels usually have extra elements here there and everywhere, so much so that I wonder about the usefulness of comparing limited numerical elements.
It's especially striking here as the beta gave monks and fighters capstone powers that, if retained, would have a major impact on the battlefield.
numbers
I honestly can't tell exactly where all your numbers are coming from. Out of curiosity though, why are you comparing monks with vital strike/imp. vital strike to fighter/barbs without it? For that matter, why are you mixing class levels if you want to compare core classes?
It seems kind of apples and oranges to me. Try building a two-weapon using 20 lvl fighter and give him improved vital strike, see how that stacks up to a 20 lvl monk that's got it.
Numbers make my head swim...
Monks get a reduced version of what they had it 3.5 (20/magic down to 10/magic). Which is basically useless at that level because everything they face at that level will have magic.
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Although DR X/magic isn't that great, your statement is just not true. For instance, a pit fiend can't bypass DR X/magic without a magic weapon.
To me, capstone powers are a non-issue. Most campaigns (and current Paizo APs) don't even go up to 20th level; even if they do, you get to use that ability for what, one adventure before you retire? Sure, if you play a lot of epic-level games, I could see it having an impact... but epic play is so bizarrely skewed to begin with, the capstone powers are just one more odd element in the mix. Realistically, in looking at class balance, the 20th level powers can be safely ignored.
To me, capstone powers are a non-issue. Most campaigns (and current Paizo APs) don't even go up to 20th level; even if they do, you get to use that ability for what, one adventure before you retire? Sure, if you play a lot of epic-level games, I could see it having an impact... but epic play is so bizarrely skewed to begin with, the capstone powers are just one more odd element in the mix. Realistically, in looking at class balance, the 20th level powers can be safely ignored.
That's true, although that reasoning also says that I can ignore any class balance after level 8 because I've never (well, almost never) played in a game past level 8. And in fact, that tends to be the case for me; that's why I don't get too worked up about how weak the fighter class is.
;-)
That's true, although that reasoning also says that I can ignore any class balance after level 8 because I've never (well, almost never) played in a game past level 8.
Heh. I can see your point to some degree, although I'm looking at things in terms of Paizo APs (which currently seem to be 1st - 15th, not 1st - 8th nor 1st - 30th).
Perhaps I'm not right about how monk flurry stacks with other class BAB, but it looks like the monk is clearly outclassing.
Bottom line is that in 3.5 and Beta PF, they don't stack at all.
Level 1 Monk / Level 19 Fighter?
You flurry at -2/-2
One can hope this is fixed up in PF RPG, but I doubt it.
[Bottom line is that in 3.5 and Beta PF, they don't stack at all.
Level 1 Monk / Level 19 Fighter? You flurry at -2/-2
One can hope this is fixed up in PF RPG, but I doubt it.
What is the basis of this assertion?
The way I read it, a monk 1/fighter 19 flurries at +18/+18 (in Pathfinder), or at +17/+17 (in 3.5).
If the flurry is at full BAB, shouldn't it now be +20/+20?
It's now the equivalent of full BAB + TWF (i.e. full BAB plus a -2 penalty). So +18/+18 is correct.
The way they word it, flurry is based off of Monk level, not full BAB.
The way they word it, you can "enchant" a mindless object...
Flurry of Blows (Ex) : When unarmored, a monk may strike
with a f lurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing
so, he may make one extra attack in a round at his highest
base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does
each other attack made that round. The resulting modif ied
base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack
Bonus column on Table 4–8. This penalty applies for 1 round,
so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make
before his next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the
penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk
must use a full attack action to strike with a f lurry of blows.
When using f lurry of blows, a monk may attack only with
unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama,
nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).
He may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk
weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons
as part of a f lurry of blows, a monk applies his full Strength
bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether
he wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t
use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part
of a flurry of blows.
In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a
separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows
ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to
use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with
quarterstaff strikes, assuming that he has enough attacks
in his flurry of blows routine to do so.
When a monk reaches 11th level, his flurry of blows
ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra
attack he gets from f lurry of blows, he gets a second extra
attack at his full base attack bonus.
Technically, the wording never specifies anything in terms of levels of monk, just levels. As a result, it appears, a monk 1 fighter 10 would appear to gain the same benefits to his flurry of blows as a monk 11, provided he is armed correctly. DM discretion applies, of course.
Also, it never states that your flurry is always exactly as it appears in the chart. Modifiers do apply, and if you take a level in fighter, your BAB does increase.
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Let's start by taking a look at the monk's primary mode of attack: flurry of blows. This system is revised from the 3.5 version to work using mechanics similar to the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, but the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows. At 8th level, this means that Sajan has one additional attack and all of those attacks are at a +1 over his 3.5 counterpart. If we look at 20th level, Sajan would have 2 extra attacks and those attacks are at a +3 over the 3.5 statistics. Of course, Sajan can still use special monk weapons for these attacks as well.
I believe the above was the reference point, not the PF Beta.
Some wrong stuffWhat is the basis of this assertion?
The way I read it, a monk 1/fighter 19 flurries at +18/+18 (in Pathfinder), or at +17/+17 (in 3.5).
Oops. Sorry, this looks right. All I can say is I didn't have my PDF/book available at the time.
Oops. Sorry, this looks right. All I can say is I didn't have my PDF/book available at the time.
It might turn out that you're exactly right after all -- the final rules aren't out yet. I'm only posting my own interpretation, which usually has an even chance of being totally wrong -- Jason Bulmahn and I don't often agree!
Technically, the wording never specifies anything in terms of levels of monk, just levels. As a result, it appears, a monk 1 fighter 10 would appear to gain the same benefits to his flurry of blows as a monk 11, provided he is armed correctly. DM discretion applies, of course.Also, it never states that your flurry is always exactly as it appears in the chart. Modifiers do apply, and if you take a level in fighter, your BAB does increase.
The term "Level" on its own has no set meaning in the rules and can mean all sorts of things depending on whether you're talking about Spell Level, Character Level, or Class Level.
What you are describing is the difference between Character Level and Class Level.
In the Class chapter of the book, it seems quite clear that you would be talking about Class Level.
If you believe otherwise, then I've got a Fighter 1/Rogue 1/Monk 1/Ranger 1/etc that I would like to play in your game. Should have about 40 feats, most of the Rogue talents and a sweet Flurry of blows progression by 20th level ;)
stuff
sigh.
They could make the book 10 000 pages and still some people will find loopholes to abuse.It's pretty obvious they mean monk levels. But the beta doesn't matter , does it? We are all waiting for the final.
I believe the above was the reference point, not the PF Beta.
Let's start by taking a look at the monk's primary mode of attack: flurry of blows. This system is revised from the 3.5 version to work using mechanics similar to the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, but the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows. At 8th level, this means that Sajan has one additional attack and all of those attacks are at a +1 over his 3.5 counterpart. If we look at 20th level, Sajan would have 2 extra attacks and those attacks are at a +3 over the 3.5 statistics. Of course, Sajan can still use special monk weapons for these attacks as well.
Thanx and yes, why use the beta as reference point.
stuffsigh.
They could make the book 10 000 pages and still some people will find loopholes to abuse.
It's pretty obvious they mean monk levels. But the beta doesn't matter , does it? We are all waiting for the final.
I agree the intent for monk levels is clear, I would rule it as such.
I agree the intent for monk levels is clear, I would rule it as such.stuffsigh.
They could make the book 10 000 pages and still some people will find loopholes to abuse.
It's pretty obvious they mean monk levels. But the beta doesn't matter , does it? We are all waiting for the final.
yes. And people who talk about the beta Monk could try read page 30.
Table 4–8: Monk. I don't know why I bother. Some people just....
Technically, the wording never specifies anything in terms of levels of monk, just levels. As a result, it appears, a monk 1 fighter 10...
And technically, the DMG never says I cannot arbitrarily kill player characters.
Which I'd do to any weasel who tries to pull that one on me ;-P
I understand that this is just a game, I just want to say this before I get any further. I've been hearing from the playtest that the monk has not been a truly effective frontline fighter; I just feel I need to mention a few things here as I do know a little bit about the subject: My DM, a fellow player in a long standing game, and myself are all practitioners of Kung Fu--Which is what this class is based off of.
History: Shoalin Monks originally started out as completely non-violent monks practicing Buddist beleifs, as a result of this and the troubled times in China, they were consistantly raided and killed by ever-advancing armies and bandits--they were considered an easy target. A hero, Ta Mao, saw this as he approached a temple way the heck back when. Being a warrior himself, he looked upon these sleepy monks (yes there chi was that low) and decided that it would be a good idea to help them defend themselves--what good is longevity (which is what the monks were going for) if someone can came and take it from you? The long and short of the story is that this is how the original animal styles came into being as well as serveral (49 to be specific) very painful meditation/stretching/conditioning techniques.
Current Day: Mantis (once it was combined with Monkey Footwork) has been added to the Animal Kung Fu Pantheon as well as other forms (e.g.: Northern Fist, Southern Fist, Tai Chi etc.)
Effect on the Game: There has been no mention of any sort of Animal Form, or any type of form for that matter. The entire reason Monks made it into the D&D world was because people wanted to pull off Wire-Fu in this realm. So, to be a little more accurate: different styles should have different abilities to aid the monk in front line combat as noted here:
1) Monkey: you can't hit what you can't see. In the final Monkey form you learn in American Kung Fu, you bow, get down on the ground, roll around, come up for 1 kick, get down and roll around some more, come up, bow, form over. Additionally, Monkey grabbing is extremely effective at grappling, and standing from prone is practiced continually throughout all of its different forms. Make the Acrobatics checks easier for Monks using this form when going into enemy threatened squares and enemy occupied squares, have a chance of catching the enemy flat-footed, an improved grappling ability, a standing from prone ability, and retaining movement speed while prone/tumbling.
2) Tiger: Differentiating this style from both Monkey and Eagle is actually more difficult than one would think; Tiger uses a small amount of Monkey rolls and a large portion of Tiger adepts practice a large amount of Eagle as well as they both use the same basic hand strengthening techniques with only two exceptions--A) Tiger uses all digits of the hand while Eagle uses three (thumb, index, and middle) ; B) the basis of Tiger is peeling off layers of your opponent's body to get to the nougaty core of them while Eagle just reaches straight past the skin(and sometimes muscle) to extract portions of the body (e.g. muscle groups, ribs, etc.). Additionally, tiger is exceedingly good at engaging multiple attackers: in many parts of multiple forms you either take the momentum from one blow you make on opponent "A" and turn it to aid the next blows on opponents "B" and "C" who are obviously surrounding you. Or you use this as a fient to capture a limb and make them suffer for giving you such a gift; this is in addition to having some very lethal leaping attacks (One of the form names, Fei Hu Ch'u Tung, is loosely translated to "Flyng Tiger Comes out of the Cave"). Finally this was one of the original 5 animal forms that was developed: the main reason it was there was to strenghten one's bones. Make the Tiger form have bleed attacks, unable to be flanked as per improved uncanny dodge, improved fient, minor damage reduction due to bone strength, and jump bonus on attack rolls from a certain distance away.
3) Eagle: Okay, to explain this one let us flip into a very real hypothetical scenario, say you are an evil doer in an evil doer band. You happen upon a seemingly jovial elderly gentleman, grey and wrinkled beyond anything you have seen before but still healthily walking the other direction down the same path you are walking. Your leader decides to do the traditional evil doer thing and rob/kill this old man, and five of you swarm him: this is where things get tricky--the man is an Eagle master unbeknowest to your band of baddy bretheren. The first thing he does is take your best friends rib from his chest and stab it in the guy next to him--say in the jugular as the form would dictate. The rest of your buddies take a giant leap back as they have just made a HUGE mistake, but it's too late--they are dead men walking. Next thing you know you are the last one standing and you haven't even taken your sword out of its sheath. Perhaps it was the master swordsman that got his arm ripped clean off that made you lose your cool, maybe it was the quarterstaff dancer getting his quaterstaff snapped by the old man's three fingered grasp and shoved into his sternum, or perhaps it was your leader lying in a pool of his own blood with his neck muscles missing--who knows, who cares, you are next. The man walks up to you with a pained smile on his face and says to you "Please don't draw that sword, son. I prefer not to have to do what I just did." And you fall to the ground weeping. This is what can honestly happen when an Eagle master goes to work. Each successful attack is treated as a free Intimidate check on a specific opponent that can see the attack including the target, Improved Sunder, free called shot with randomly determined effects (make a % roll style list), bleed attacks, and lethal improvised weapons.
4) Mantis: Let's play a game, it's called "guess which pressure point I'm going to hit next." A Mantis master is a tricky foe; employing his knowledge of various pressure points with speed and accuracy that would would make those of us who are militarily inlined to go "Whoo-wa." Dropping foes defenses and striking strong points to make them weak (or killing people outright) make this more the art of turning the strong into the weak. This form was designed without footwork, but was combined later with monkey footwork. Game effect: Extra flurry of blows attack, Attacks do less actual damage but add in an incresing amount of ability damage (I'm thinking that you opporate on a strict base monk damage roll and increase ability damage every time the monk's normal damage would go up 1d2-1d3-1d4-1d6-1d8-1d10 progression, and possible random type of ability damage), Extra quivering palm, remeoving the random ability damage for targeted ability damage, and whirlwind attack.
Some or all of these abilities should be mitigated with ki pool expenses, so that you can balance out the game, but it would be very easy to take these abilities and give them to a monk at a certain level for each style they have been schooled in (perhaps basing this off of a non-essential ability to the monks would further nerf these abilities, perhaps Charisma: one known style plus an additional one for each charisma modifier higher than zero--basically being able to talk your way into additional schools and training). It is important to note that these are not the only styles/forms: there were AT LEAST 7 independant temples that all developed their own styles. To save some reading I will stop with only these 4, but it is important for people to realise that there is much more to Kung Fu than what has been written here: the name MEANS mastery through time and effort. If people like this set-up I would do more, but this has already taken up WAY too much time without getting paid in any fashion.
--Wookie
I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Well there are two obvious reasons. One, the shortsword gives a damage type other than bludgeoning, which may matter at some point. Two, doesn't performing a disarm maneuver bare handed give penalties?
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A whole bunch of awesome information about Kung-fu with detailed description of stances
While it may be too much to add to the base monk class (maybe not, once you consider the vast amount of spells and the complexity of caster classes) those would make some really awesome prestige classes. It would make sense that a monk would train for awhile before specializing in a certain stance or school. I highly recommend taking all those ideas and seeing if you could put them together into complete and workable prestige classes - if done right I'd be very likely to use them in my games.
Technically, the wording never specifies anything in terms of levels of monk, just levels. As a result, it appears, a monk 1 fighter 10...And technically, the DMG never says I cannot arbitrarily kill player characters.
Which I'd do to any weasel who tries to pull that one on me ;-P
Mmm.. KaeYoss - I think you misinterpreted Takamonk here.
Monk 1 = BAB + 0
Ftr 10 = +10
Total = +10, flurry +8/+8/+3
Monk 11 = BAB +8, flurry +8/+8/+3 (no penalty). Final will be +8/+8/+3/+3.
As Ughbash says, the Monk would hit harder though.
ALSO, It should be noted that Vital Strike, and Improved Vital Strike - too all intents and purposes known so far - do not "cost" attacks any longer, and only work as a standard action to increase the damage of a single attack.