WOOOOOOT !
On the opposite page, we get a good look at the dwarf, one of my favorite races. Aside from some new flavor text that describes dwarven traits, there have been only a few changes to the dwarf from the Beta Playtest version of the game. Most of these were made to clean up the race and bring it inline with the new rules. That said, there is one significant thing that has changed. I’ll let you figure out which element that is.
Well, first of all, there's no mention of Favored Class, which goes in hand with what someone else said (Erik?), about all players getting to choose one class, any class, as their Favored Class - and humans and half-elves probably getting to pick 2 classes.
Second... "Dwarves receive a +4 racial bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense"
So... CMB seems to have been split up into Attack and Defense, or maybe it's just the passive CMB, i.e. when someone does something to you, that's been classified as "defensive."
Thirdly, no Keen Senses.
Oh, one complaint, though, about the lay-out.
The shaded racial text box covering parts of the dwarf illustration, that's unfortunate.
Maybe favored class is mentioned in the Class chapter, though I agree that it seems you can choose! Which ree-ocks!
It also gels with the warning and description in the text about how some races are suited to some classes better. And lets me play dwarf barbarians and elf rogues, which I love and which suit the races abilities so well, without giving up favored class.
Keen Senses I don't miss too much, its just alot of needless tracking, though elfs and maybe half-elfs should still get it, but maybe just as a +2 to Perception in general.
Ooo, I'm all aquiver. Can't wait to see Valeros!
Contributor
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Just so you folks know, the boards have experienced a "thread divergence". Additional discussion can be found in this alternate reality.
Just so you folks know, the boards have experienced a "thread divergence". Additional discussion can be found in this alternate reality.
Not only that, but there's a third thread too!
I am actually rather disappointed with the new racial line-up. The dwarf isn't as much fun, the halfling and gnome look kinda ugly (especially that gnome), and the elf looks angry and much like a jerk. The human, half-elf, and half-orc are alright, but in all, I liked the appearance and personality of the line-up in the Beta much better. Maybe it was the angular style that bugged everyone so much, but the races all had more personality and were generally much more agreeable than this lot. I'm kinda sad.
Maybe I'll print up that page and put it in my rulebook when I get it, so that I can have a picture more to my liking. Still, I tend to like Mr. Prescott's art, so I'm surprised that I don't like this.
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I am actually rather disappointed with the new racial line-up. The dwarf isn't as much fun, the halfling and gnome look kinda ugly (especially that gnome), and the elf looks angry and much like a jerk. The human, half-elf, and half-orc are alright, but in all, I liked the appearance and personality of the line-up in the Beta much better. Maybe it was the angular style that bugged everyone so much, but the races all had more personality and were generally much more agreeable than this lot. I'm kinda sad.
Maybe I'll print up that page and put it in my rulebook when I get it, so that I can have a picture more to my liking. Still, I tend to like Mr. Prescott's art, so I'm surprised that I don't like this.
While I actually like the tone of the new artwork, I completely understand and agree with your points here. The old artwork did have a nice flavor to it.
That and I'm totally bummed that we don't get male and female versions of each race. Girls will play gnomes and half-elves, while boys will play elves and halflings. Oh well...
Sadly, I must agree about the gnome. The old one was cute as a button but looked nothing like Lini. The new one is borderline creepy, like an old lady with an unfortunate hair color and Joker makeup -- and still looks nothing like Lini. If you're going to draw a female gnome, could it not just be Lini?
That and I'm totally bummed that we don't get male and female versions of each race. Girls will play gnomes and half-elves, while boys will play elves and halflings. Oh well...
Doesn't concern me too much, as I don't play with boys and girls. I play with grown-ups, and they'll understand that this is not Diablo, and you can make your own character, not just play one of the 5 they let you choose from.
Actually, I think most boys and girls will understand that, too. The rest, we'll send back to Diablo.
;-P
If you're going to draw a female gnome, could it not just be Lini?
It's "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game", not "Lini".
And those are gnomes, not smurfs - they have more than one female (and they don't turn into gold).
:P
Anyway, Lini will still be in the book. She's the druid.
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That and I'm totally bummed that we don't get male and female versions of each race. Girls will play gnomes and half-elves, while boys will play elves and halflings. Oh well...
Doesn't concern me too much, as I don't play with boys and girls. I play with grown-ups, and they'll understand that this is not Diablo, and you can make your own character, not just play one of the 5 they let you choose from.
Actually, I think most boys and girls will understand that, too. The rest, we'll send back to Diablo.
All I'm saying is that in my experience, of the new players (not played any D&D before) that I've introduced to Pathfinder, the males have invariably chosen races with male pictures, and females have all chosen races with female pictures. It's likely subconscious - they know that they can choose any race, but there is obviously a bias in their minds due to the images given.
I'd be happy to see another female gnome besides Lini that actually looks to be the same race as Lini. Right now, if you're playing a gnome in a PbP, your only avatar choice is ... Lini. I'm hopeful there will be other non-Lini gnome pictures in the final, like a male. (Of course, we've got the gnome-a-riffic RPG Superstar module to come that ought to be chock full of gnome art.)
And doesn't it look like the human is getting ready to clock the half-elf for being so much hotter than she is? She's staring straight at her with her fists clenched and an angry expression on her face, thinking "I would have been the babe in this photo shoot if not for you"....
I do miss the older gravity defying hairdo, it felt right for people who have access to prestidigitation. Now I think she's got some fiendish designs for the Half-Orcs bellybutton.
Yep, looks like increased stats are in. Very happy about that since it means that the average gnome in PFRPG will be the cleanest people in the world, if they want to be.
It's funny how individual art taste is. I was seriously put off by the old race line-up picture, but I'm liking the new one. I really like a lot of Arnold Tsang's work (he did the Beta line-up), but the angular style he was experimenting with there really isn't my cup of tea.
Also, I really like the human 10 times more than the half-elf - the half-elf is just too generic blonde "hot - as defined by society" and frankly, IMO of course, boring. :-)
No, the human female is a strong woman with curves, a personality that seems to go beyond "oh, that's hot" and thus much, much more interesting. :-D
I like. I agree the gnome of the Beta would have been a better choice but oh well. I can live with it. I like the rest very much. If the fact the dwarf has no favored class means you get you pick your favored class I will be thrilled. It maybe nothing special but that one skill point per level can be huge to my favorite race because the -2 int that half-orcs get puts them behind the eight ball on skills enough. And personally, I like Half-Orc Fighters and Clerics, were skill points are of very high value.
Can I add one more thing, I really like how Half-Orcs were not the unwanted race in this edition. In AD&D 1st ed they had a max extra languages of 2 no matter what their intelligence was for no clear reason, they had to use the worse armor of the types their multiclass had available unlike all other races that could use the best, they could be not raised from the dead, and they had a max str of 18(99) instead of 18(00) even though they had +1 to str. In 3rd ed they had -2 to int and cha vs only +2 to str, the only race with more negatives then possitives. 2nd Ed dropped them entirely and 4th ed...who cares. Point is in Pathfinder they get a fair deal, thanks for that.
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Also, I really like the human 10 times more than the half-elf - the half-elf is just too generic blonde "hot - as defined by society" and frankly, IMO of course, boring. :-)
No, the human female is a strong woman with curves, a personality that seems to go beyond "oh, that's hot" and thus much, much more interesting. :-D
Aha! Thank you! I'm so glad someone else saw the same thing I did in that.
The human looks so much more interesting than the half-elf. Like she's got some personality! I dig that.
If you own the Gazetteer then you have both the old art there and the new in the PFRPG :) Something for everyone!
One thing that popped out at me was the "Rules and guidelines for playing more powerful or more unusual races can be found in Chapter 12."
Creative Director
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It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising. I liked the original as well. I like this version better, but still. That original piece of artwork had more complaints about it than pretty much any other piece of art we've published under Pathfinder, which is vexing as well because we've published a LOT worse! :P
Also, I really like the human 10 times more than the half-elf - the half-elf is just too generic blonde "hot - as defined by society" and frankly, IMO of course, boring. :-)
No, the human female is a strong woman with curves, a personality that seems to go beyond "oh, that's hot" and thus much, much more interesting. :-DAha! Thank you! I'm so glad someone else saw the same thing I did in that.
The human looks so much more interesting than the half-elf. Like she's got some personality! I dig that.
I would point out they are both sneaking a peek at the rippling with muscles Half-Orc guy. Yeah that just goes to show that -2 cha is dead, long live the big guy.
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It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising. I liked the original as well. I like this version better, but still. That original piece of artwork had more complaints about it than pretty much any other piece of art we've published under Pathfinder, which is vexing as well because we've published a LOT worse! :P
Now I'd like to know which ones you consider worse!
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Creative Director
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I would point out they are both sneaking a peek at the rippling with muscles Half-Orc guy. Yeah that just goes to show that -2 cha is dead, long live the big guy.Also, I really like the human 10 times more than the half-elf - the half-elf is just too generic blonde "hot - as defined by society" and frankly, IMO of course, boring. :-)
No, the human female is a strong woman with curves, a personality that seems to go beyond "oh, that's hot" and thus much, much more interesting. :-DAha! Thank you! I'm so glad someone else saw the same thing I did in that.
The human looks so much more interesting than the half-elf. Like she's got some personality! I dig that.
That's nothing new. The black and white illos in the PHB have, in both cases, the gnomes positioned as if they're feeling up the half orcs they're standing next to.
Of course, that might just be me seeing filth and kink where there is none. I do that sometimes.
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Creative Director
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Oh, one complaint, though, about the lay-out.
The shaded racial text box covering parts of the dwarf illustration, that's unfortunate.
What do you mean by this? I suspect that this might be an artifact generated by your PDF viewer; I see this happen now and then in PDFs as well. The actual printed copy (of which I've seen proofs) looks fine to me—no text box overlay on the dwarf I can see... hope that's accurate for the book itself! (crosses fingers)
Hmm, in the table of contents I didn't see a section on curses, diseases, and poisons. Those are still around somewhere, I hope?
My guess, those will most likely be found in Appendix 1: Special Abilities. This is where you will find them in the Beta and in the 3.5 SRD.
*edit* What I get for taking time to double check XD.
I'll be the one to say it: the new gnome is hot.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising. I liked the original as well. I like this version better, but still. That original piece of artwork had more complaints about it than pretty much any other piece of art we've published under Pathfinder, which is vexing as well because we've published a LOT worse! :P
I think Laori's got to be the win. Ugh! :) I'm fine with both of the race spreads, slight preference for the new one.
Hmm, in the table of contents I didn't see a section on curses, diseases, and poisons. Those are still around somewhere, I hope?They sure are! Just not called out as such in the ToC.
James,
Did the traits make it into book and just are not called out in the TOC. All of the gamers in my group absolutely love them.
Thanks,
Doug
What do you mean by this? I suspect that this might be an artifact generated by your PDF viewer; I see this happen now and then in PDFs as well. The actual printed copy (of which I've seen proofs) looks fine to me—no text box overlay on the dwarf I can see... hope that's accurate for the book itself! (crosses fingers)Oh, one complaint, though, about the lay-out.
The shaded racial text box covering parts of the dwarf illustration, that's unfortunate.
I crossposted my observations above from this thread, where we talked a bit about how it appears to be the PDF viewer that's at fault. Here's one of my replies, with a link so you can see what it looks like:
Apparently it's my pdf-reader (PDF-XChange Viewer) which parses the layers differently then.
Here's how it looks in my reader: Dwarf with text box.
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Creative Director
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Hmm, in the table of contents I didn't see a section on curses, diseases, and poisons. Those are still around somewhere, I hope?They sure are! Just not called out as such in the ToC.James,
Did the traits make it into book and just are not called out in the TOC. All of the gamers in my group absolutely love them.
Thanks,
Doug
Nope; traits are not in the core book. Partially because there was no room, and partially because they're still an optional part of the game; the core book isn't the right place to field lots of optional rules. Traits are VERY likely to appear in another book relatively soon after the core book. And there'll certainly be a free PDF of how traits work in the PFRPG come August to support Council of Thieves.
If you own the Gazetteer then you have both the old art there and the new in the PFRPG :) Something for everyone!
That, or the beta, of course.
It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising.
Because you asked so nicely - which you didn't, but I'm trying to make a point here - I'll give it a race-by-race comparison:
Generally, I like both pictures.
"Well, hello, my half-elven friend. I see you have a little human in you. I think we both know you'd like a whole lot more."
Half-Elf: "Oh yes!" *kills, cooks, and devours Meepo"
All I'm saying is that in my experience, of the new players (not played any D&D before) that I've introduced to Pathfinder, the males have invariably chosen races with male pictures, and females have all chosen races with female pictures. It's likely subconscious - they know that they can choose any race, but there is obviously a bias in their minds due to the images given.
Well, they'll get over it soon enough.
A lot sooner than I'd get over seeing a female half-orc and/or dwarf in undies.
Did the traits make it into book and just are not called out in the TOC.
The traits aren't neccesarily a PFRPG thing, more an AP thing for Golarion. Like action points in Eberron. They work fine, and we'll hopefully get the core ones updated for free, well the traits that need it, and they should be re-released with CoT in August. If nothing else in the Cheliax guide, which is the de facto players guide to CoT.
The way you all sound, I'm surprised there isn't a half-gnome player race!
It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising. I liked the original as well. I like this version better, but still. That original piece of artwork had more complaints about it than pretty much any other piece of art we've published under Pathfinder, which is vexing as well because we've published a LOT worse! :P
You can't seriously expect to make everyone happy, can you? :-)
I can see an argument that the race lineup artwork sets the tone for the races and thus gets more scrutiny. Personally, I think both versions are great.
The way you all sound, I'm surprised there isn't a half-gnome player race!
Only because we haven't worked out the biology quite yet, my friend. *cue mad scientist laugh*
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It's interesting to see folks now saying they preferred the original artwork, but not all that surprising. I liked the original as well. I like this version better, but still. That original piece of artwork had more complaints about it than pretty much any other piece of art we've published under Pathfinder, which is vexing as well because we've published a LOT worse! :P
That dwarf is just absolutely terrific and *menacing* as hell... I bet he's actually Chelish! :)
All in all the new art is, in my opinion, a *lot* better than the racial art in Beta.
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Nope; traits are not in the core book. Partially because there was no room, and partially because they're still an optional part of the game; the core book isn't the right place to field lots of optional rules. Traits are VERY likely to appear in another book relatively soon after the core book. And there'll certainly be a free PDF of how traits work in the PFRPG come August to support Council of Thieves.Hmm, in the table of contents I didn't see a section on curses, diseases, and poisons. Those are still around somewhere, I hope?They sure are! Just not called out as such in the ToC.James,
Did the traits make it into book and just are not called out in the TOC. All of the gamers in my group absolutely love them.
Thanks,
Doug
UnPathfinderized Arcana, hmmm, James? ;)
I'll buy any book that has all the traits in it...
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I'll be the one to say it: the new gnome is hot.
Err... I don't know what this tells about you, Todd... I kind of expected Pett or Logue to come up with something like this -- or, actually, those two would probably say "ME WANT EAT NEW GNOME!" or "ARRRGGHHH! ISN'T THAT HALFLING A TASTY MORSEL OR WHAT?!? LOTSA BLOOD TO SUCK WITH MY TENDRILS!". ;P
If you own the Gazetteer then you have both the old art there and the new in the PFRPG :) Something for everyone!That, or the beta, of course.
... or Pathfinder #3.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'll be the one to say it: the new gnome is hot.Err... I don't know what this tells about you, Todd... I kind of expected Pett or Logue to come up with something like this -- or, actually, those two would probably say "ME WANT EAT NEW GNOME!" or "ARRRGGHHH! ISN'T THAT HALFLING A TASTY MORSEL OR WHAT?!? LOTSA BLOOD TO SUCK WITH MY TENDRILS!". ;P
No, I think they'd rather play with the larger human or half-orc. The gnome and halfling are so small, they don't produce as much blood splatter and gore. That half-orc's big enough you could coat an entire 30x30 room with it's blood, brains, and other squishy bits.
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partially because they're still an optional part of the game; the core book isn't the right place to field lots of optional rules.
THANK YOU!
I was concerned every couple of pages would have an optional rule sidebar or a chapter of wasted pages on optional rules. That's one of the things that always bugged me about the AD&D core books, too many optional rules to thumb through that some DMs used or never used.