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Ok, I've been having some really dark angry feelings lately, but I've also had what I thought was a good reason behind it.
Two weeks ago my partner Alex was walking home from university with his friend Michelle, they cut through a small wooded path he took everyday from school when 4 guys jumped him. Now Alex is 150 pounds soaking wet, and 2 of these guys were at least 200 pounds, anyway they proceeded to kick the living crap out of him calling him f&#!+# and other homophobic remarks. If Michelle didn't have her rape whistle on her I hate to think how far they would have gotten. Anyway Ales got a mild concussion 40 stitches 2 broken ribs and badly sprained wrist. Anyway the people involved have been identified (one of which had a knife on him at the time) and I've pressed charges. Apparently they identified Alex because he organizes the GBLT counciling centre on campus and they decided to beat the crap out of someone they thought was furthering the "gay agenda". They currently have the defense that they were drunk.
Anyway because of the situation I hope to at least get some jail time on them and get them a criminal record and I'd go further if I could, I'm currently trying to see if the knife wielding guy can be charged with a possible attempted murder charge. I keep dwelliong on it. I want them to f&*&ing fry, I've developed an increased hatred of homophobes. So does it make me a bad person that I want them punished as horribly as possible. I've never been a violent person but now .....
No, it doesn't make you a bad person at all. Someone you care about was hurt, and you want retribution to be served.
I hope Alex gets well soon.
Ok, I've been having some really dark angry feelings lately, but I've also had what I thought was a good reason behind it.
Two weeks ago my partner Alex was walking home from university with his friend Michelle, they cut through a small wooded path he took everyday from school when 4 guys jumped him. Now Alex is 150 pounds soaking wet, and 2 of these guys were at least 200 pounds, anyway they proceeded to kick the living crap out of him calling him f%*got and other homophobic remarks. If Michelle didn't have her rape whistle on her I hate to think how far they would have gotten. Anyway Ales got a mild concussion 40 stitches 2 broken ribs and badly sprained wrist. Anyway the people involved have been identified (one of which had a knife on him at the time) and I've pressed charges. Apparently they identified Alex because he organizes the GBLT counciling centre on campus and they decided to beat the crap out of someone they thought was furthering the "gay agenda". They currently have the defense that they were drunk.
Anyway because of the situation I hope to at least get some jail time on them and get them a criminal record and I'd go further if I could, I'm currently trying to see if the knife wielding guy can be charged with a possible attempted murder charge. I keep dwelliong on it. I want them to f&!#ing fry, I've developed an increased hatred of homophobes. So does it make me a bad person that I want them punished as horribly as possible. I've never been a violent person but now .....
Not at all. When somebody you care about gets hurt, it's normal to have these feelings. Those people who did that deserve what they have coming to them. Keep pressing the attempted murder charge.
Frankly, I doubt the knife will come into question if he never branded it as a weapon, or attempted to use it as a weapon.
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No, it doesn't make yo a bad person.
I'd react the same way if any of my family or friends was attacked like that.
I don't know if you have a lawyer or are working with someone in the DA's office, but go for the maximum you can. It's a hate crime and those are looked down upon more so than the 'normal' brawl. Try to keep a clear head about you, the anger can cloud your thoughts when you might needs them the most.
I hope Alex has a quick recovery. Be there for him.
Sadly, the hate crime charge would probably be stiffer than the assault. And no, you're not a bad person for wanting these douchebags to get punished. They weren't so drunk that they couldn't plan the ambush. *insert a hundred bad names here.*
Good luck to both of you. The stitches will heal but the psychological side takes longer. No magic cure for that.
not at all, I know that if I were put in your situation, I'd f*** their worlds up to the best of my abilities, till they have felt the pain that my friend and I felt. but like fray said, you should try to keep a clear head, because thinking about it honestly makes the pain worse. send Alex my best regards
-Azhagal
P.S. if you need anyone to talk to, you can email me at blackessque_13_boi@yahoo.com
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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No. It does not make you a bad person.
A word of advice from someone who has stewed in anger over a similar event: Keep an eye on yourself (or have a friend do it for you). If you start to go off the deep end (e.g. self-destructive behaviour, heavy-drinking, picking fights, etc.), then get professional help.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Sadly, the hate crime charge would probably be stiffer than the assault. And no, you're not a bad person for wanting these douchebags to get punished. They weren't so drunk that they couldn't plan the ambush. *insert a hundred bad names here.*
Good luck to both of you. The stitches will heal but the psychological side takes longer. No magic cure for that.
Which is why hate crime charges are sometimes dropped in exchange for a guilty plea. Depending on how 'hate crimes' are being kept track of, this reduces the number of crimes being recorded as hate crimes in Canada. I hope it doesn't come to this, but Alex may be asked his opinion on whether a plea bargain for a lesser charge is preferred over a trial.
Here's my two coppers:
1cp: You are not a bad person for wanting retribution for a loved one. I shudder at the thought of the damage I would do if someone hurt my wife or daughter. Being raised on a farm gives you a tolerance for blood and a bit of skill at butchering. Not neccessarily skills I want to bring into play upon another human being, but if I came home to find my wife or daughter badly hurt and a suspect standing there with a bloodied weapon? He would have to kill me to keep me from turning him into so much worthless meat.
1cp: That being said, stay rational, but follow your heart. I hate stupidity, and I hate hate most of all, so I personally encourage you to press charges to the fullest extent of the law, and not settle out of court if that seems to be advantageous to them. However, don't embroil yourself in retribution so much it takes from your own life. Being with your partner is more important than being at the trial, and so on. Remember where your truest priorities lie. And if partway through the process you find youself changing your mind, perhaps about one individual in the bunch, or maybe even the group as a whole, and you think you might want to let that one person off, then do so.
There is no point to prove, no vengeance to be had, only what will cause the most good in the wake of a bad situation. That is what I feel the true purpose of justice is.
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Well I have some good news. They got expelled from university. I just can't help but want to ruin there lives to the fullest extent I can, and with me talking with a few university individuals I would like to think I helped things along. But in all likelyhood they would have been expelled anyway.
And yes I'm in consultation with a lawyer. I'm hoping to get them jailtime at least. I'm gonna see these bastards fry one way or another.
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Jeremy, I don’t think you’re a bad person. In your situation I would be feeling exactly the same, and trying to do exactly the same. I think people should be held accountable and pay for their actions, and I hope these guys really pay for what they did.
Having said that, I wouldn’t expect them to “learn their lesson”. If you do manage to see that they are punished as much as they deserve, in their twisted, hate filled brains they will probably use this as further excuse to hate homosexuals. Hate isn’t rational.
Anyway, good luck, and I hope your partner makes a full and speedy recovery.
....
WTF?
Wow, man, that goes beyond mere suckage into 'indictment of modern society' territory. Let us know how things shake out.
Meanwhile, in the world of my imagination, I'll send out a team of gay ninjas to teach them a lesson. Am I a bad person to do that?
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....WTF?
Wow, man, that goes beyond mere suckage into 'indictment of modern society' territory. Let us know how things shake out.
Meanwhile, in the world of my imagination, I'll send out a team of gay ninjas to teach them a lesson. Am I a bad person to do that?
We used to have a group called "Q Patrol" here in Houston in the late '80s, early '90s, when "gay bashing" was at its worst here. Kind of like a gay and lesbian version of the Guardian Angels. Nothing funnier than seeing a redneck get his ass kicked by a 6'4", 220 pound ripped gay black belt...
Well I have some good news. They got expelled from university. I just can't help but want to ruin there lives to the fullest extent I can, and with me talking with a few university individuals I would like to think I helped things along. But in all likelyhood they would have been expelled anyway.
And yes I'm in consultation with a lawyer. I'm hoping to get them jailtime at least. I'm gonna see these bastards fry one way or another.
People need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. Diminished responsibility due to alcohol is no excuse they chose to drink in the first place. If somebody commits a crime of violence then full weight of the law should be brought to bare.
Edit: So no you are not doing anything wrong.
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Doesn't make you a bad person at all. It's how you act on what you're feeling that does that, and what you're doing is perfectly reasonable thus far. Like the others have said, see these s@~!stoves punished for all they're worth, but don't let it eat you. Don't let them get in the way of who's really important to you.
Hopes and prayers going out to ya both, man.
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In 1995, the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving, someone tried to steal my car from in front of my parents home. I was taking the dogs for a walk and caught them doing it. He shot at my dogs, he shot at me, and he shot at my father. No one was hurt. To this day, if you put that man in front of me, I'd be tempted to kill him.
So no, this doesn't make you a bad person - it makes you human.
I'm sorry to hear about you partner, and hope he gets better soon. I also hope that the judge throws the book at the pathetic losers who did this.
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The worst part is I'm thinking all along this 2009 I mean s!~# like this shouldn't be happening anymore. But I found out that with in the last 5 years there have been at least 2 other serious incidents.
A high school kid was walking home from school was openly gay and was jumped by 6 others pulled into a local graveyard, away from the road and was beaten severely had his legs broken, and sodomized with a broomstick which caused huge internal damage. The kid dragged himself on his f+@@ing hands to the roadside where he was found. He nearly f*#~ing died. He still lives in town and is permanently in a wheelchair.
The next was another high school kid who was openly gay, who lived in a suburb of the city came downtown to watch the santa claud parade met up with a bunch of his friends. Later that afternoon apparently he got seperated from his friends and went missing for a few weeks. He was found hanging 10 feet from the ground in a tree 100 meters behind his house. It was determined as foul play because of the extensive injuries he had incured and by the number of washed out footprints by the tree. No ones ever been prosecuted for his death.
I mean this s**& has happened in a country that has legalized same sex marriage for f#$*s sake what the hell is wrong with people. Within the last 5 years this has happened. And my friends say I might have gotten to militant since the incident? can anyone really blame me?
No, I wouldn't say you're a bad person at all for having these feelings, but if you get too caught up in vindication, that can lead down some very self-destructive paths. Two family members of a friend of mine were murdered years ago and she really broke herself up trying to figure out the whys and hows she would never get answers for and when one of the murderers committed suicide soon into his life sentence she was livid and depressed for weeks because he took the 'easy way out.' You can't help the way you feel and you can't be blamed for a lot of negativity when you or someone close to you has been wronged to that extent, but the lengths to which you allow those feelings to intrude on your life can cause you to continue letting yourself be a victim long after the crime.
The worst part is I'm thinking all along this 2009 I mean s~#@ like this shouldn't be happening anymore. But I found out that with in the last 5 years there have been at least 2 other serious incidents.
Jeremy, first off my condolences to you and Alex. I hope that he (and you) won't let the evil actions of others poison the enjoyment of your lives together. Even the best laws and the most stringent policing will not make everyone able to accept other's differences.
A high school kid was walking home from school was openly gay and was jumped by 6 others pulled into a local graveyard, away from the road and was beaten severely had his legs broken, and sodomized with a broomstick which caused huge internal damage. The kid dragged himself on his f&%#ing hands to the roadside where he was found. He nearly f&%#ing died. He still lives in town and is permanently in a wheelchair.
That is truly horrible. The way he was assaulted illustrates one of the main problems with hate crimes like this. These attackers most likely had issues with their own sexuality, thus they were envious of this kid for having the guts to proclaim his openly. The way they sodomized him is indicative of their own hidden lusts and shame. Sexual shame/anger is one of the most dangerous emotions in the world.
The next was another high school kid who was openly gay, who lived in a suburb of the city came downtown to watch the santa claud parade met up with a bunch of his friends. Later that afternoon apparently he got seperated from his friends and went missing for a few weeks. He was found hanging 10 feet from the ground in a tree 100 meters behind his house. It was determined as foul play because of the extensive injuries he had incured and by the number of washed out footprints by the tree. No ones ever been prosecuted for his death.
Another attack by repressed persons lashing out at someone who is living the life they wished they had. Combine this with alcohol, the holiday season and the mob mentality and you have a recipe for murder.
I mean this s~#@ has happened in a country that has legalized same sex marriage for f&%#s sake what the hell is wrong with people. Within the last 5 years this has happened. And my friends say I might have gotten to militant since the incident? can anyone really blame me?
Anger is understandable. Letting the incident poison you against other people is letting these f$#!wads win another victory. By all means, prosecute these drunken scumbags to the extent of the law, but try and keep your inner self centered. Anger has its uses, but if dwelt on too long it can eventually poison your entire life.
Once again, you and Alex have my condolences. Many wishes for a speedy recovery, both physically and mentally. If it is any consolation, I am sure the Wheel of Karma will roll on over these scum in due time. There's never any escaping that justice in the end.
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The worst part is I'm thinking all along this 2009 I mean s*#~ like this shouldn't be happening anymore. But I found out that with in the last 5 years there have been at least 2 other serious incidents.
Unfortunately, this is the world we live in, and has been for some time. If history teaches us anything, it's that terrible people will always find some excuse to be violent @$$holes to others. It's the nature of the beast that is humanity.
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As for the OP, how you feel is completely reasonable, my wife is black and I know that one day while playing a game online I came across a guy who's tag was N&#*+#killer101 I told him that his name was disgusting and he told me that I wasn't black so don't worry about it. When I made the point that there are lots of reasons (say marrying a black woman) He told me that if he knew where I lived he would send the KKK to my home to kill her and beat me for being a n!$@#$ lover (this happened in 2008 for gods sakes). I grew up in a town where when I was 10 the KKK chapter actually had a bigger membership than the town population, so that was even more offensive to me than most people probably. I wish he had been someone talking to me in person and not online because I'm 260lbs, a former weightlifter, and pretty much unhurtable (i've been t-boned by a van on a motorcycle and if the bone hadn't been sticking out of my leg I would've been able to get up and walk it off, some douchebag with no weapons, punches don't even phase me) I would have hospitalized him. Your not evil for wanting to hurt people who hurt the one you love, hell you wouldn't be evil for wanting to hurt them if all they did was spit on your partner and call him hateful terms. In fact what you are doing is tame, I'm a hunter and if someone did that to my wife I would probably have climbed a building with a rifle by now to ensure to ensure they never hurt anyone again, but maybe I actually am evil.
As an aside, I think the greatest thing ever is the fact that that jackass has a mixed heritage president. So don't worry so much Jeremy, cause in a few years those douches are either gonna be working for a gay man or being led as a nation by one. That's the ultimate revenge.
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I am rooting for you and Alex. I hope he recovers from everything. Push for the hate crime and hopefully they will spend a lot of time in prison.
And no you are not a bad person. I have two daughters and I live in rural Montana so if anyone were to hurt my little girls they would quickly disappear in a hole some where and never be heard from again. It scares me to death to think what I could do in a situation like your and I haven't even been through it so no you are handling your anger very well.
Good Luck again and I hope those bastards see the inside of a prison real soon.
You're not a bad person: It's perfectly normal to want justice done on people like that. The system isn't perfect, so don't let yourself get upset if the assailants don't get all that's coming to them.
Despite the justice system's weaknesses, the assailants' evil will come back to haunt them. I've dealt with a lot of wicked people over the years, and I speak with 100% confidence. Call it Karma, Fate, Justice, or whatever you want: They'll come to regret the evil that they have done.
Not a bad a person at all.
Righteous anger is not bad.
We're judged by our actions, not our feelings. Justice is not a wrongful pursuit. Just bear in mind the difference between justice and revenge.
You're a beautiful person for caring for another. Don't let rage make you become someone or something else. Would your partner actually want that?
And again, I'm not advocating that you don't take action, oh no, merely that it be in the pursuit of justice.
Best of luck for you and your partner.
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Well good news is Alex went to school today, he actually managed to do his T.A. today. However he is taking the bus to and from school for quite awhile. He also had a huge gist basket on his desk with lots of get well cards which I was very happy and appreciative of. O yeah and tonight he's going back to lead his GBLT counseling group. I guess you can't keep a winner down.
But as for the a#~~!*@s who did this well a court date will be set within the next week or so I'm taking them down. I want to totally ruin them for the rest of their lives.
Well good news is Alex went to school today, he actually managed to do his T.A. today. However he is taking the bus to and from school for quite awhile. He also had a huge gist basket on his desk with lots of get well cards which I was very happy and appreciative of. O yeah and tonight he's going back to lead his GBLT counseling group. I guess you can't keep a winner down.
But as for the a!%%%#!s who did this well a court date will be set within the next week or so I'm taking them down. I want to totally ruin them for the rest of their lives.
I'm very glad to hear Alex is doing well.
One thing that you might not want to hear, but which is intended to help, is to make sure that your rage and desire to punish don't actually work against you when it comes to court. If you come across as being fanatically out for blood (even if it's really a simple desire for justice) the judge, lawyers, and/or jury are likely to subconsciously dismiss you and Alex as somehow "deserving" of what happended -- not based on orientation, but based on that attitude. That's not to say you should pretend to be all meek and humble; you want to be strong and committed -- but giving the impression of foaming at the mouth can hurt you a lot more than it helps.
However it turns out, best of luck to you both.
I'm glad to hear that Alex is okay, and that he has a supportive and loving community to rally around him.
I'm also saddened to hear that this sort of behavior is being perpetrated by people attending higher learning institutions. I hope those responsible are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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Here's my stand on the subject:
My best friend since we were both kids has been an out-of-the-closet homosexual for about a year now. We both live in a backwoods town with a lot of backward-thinking people.
To put it simply, I have made it clear to all the local lowlifes that if anyone tries to f&~+ with my bro, they're going to be found trussed up in front of the town hall with their own dick in their shirt pocket. Thankfully, I'm scary enough that I haven't had to fight anyone yet.
Jeremy, I think you're a very good person, and it's completely natural to feel this way. Hell, you'e handling things way better than I would if someone decided to beat the s*+% out of someone else I cared about. Peace, man.
Jeremy, my sincere condolences. I'm glad to hear that things are going your way after what happened to your partner. That s+%+ can't be tolerated here or anywhere.
We used to have a group called "Q Patrol" here in Houston in the late '80s, early '90s, when "gay bashing" was at its worst here. Kind of like a gay and lesbian version of the Guardian Angels. Nothing funnier than seeing a redneck get his ass kicked by a 6'4", 220 pound ripped gay black belt...
That's probably the best thing I've heard all week. My freshman year in art school, I had all my foundation classes with this drag queen guy (he was kind of short for it, honestly; not that I'm an expert) and I would never pick a fight with that dude. He wasn't nearly as tall as me but he had been picked on enough in his home town that he was like a master of Judo and strong enough to probably lift me over his shoulder. The only advice I can give you is that maybe my classmate had the right idea: don't get mad, get empowered. Take some self-defense classes or something. Or just keep active in your pride activities.
I hope things continue to improve for you after this.
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Jeremy, my sincere condolences. I'm glad to hear that things are going your way after what happened to your partner. That s%%# can't be tolerated here or anywhere.
We used to have a group called "Q Patrol" here in Houston in the late '80s, early '90s, when "gay bashing" was at its worst here. Kind of like a gay and lesbian version of the Guardian Angels. Nothing funnier than seeing a redneck get his ass kicked by a 6'4", 220 pound ripped gay black belt...That's probably the best thing I've heard all week. My freshman year in art school, I had all my foundation classes with this drag queen guy (he was kind of short for it, honestly; not that I'm an expert) and I would never pick a fight with that dude. He wasn't nearly as tall as me but he had been picked on enough in his home town that he was like a master of Judo and strong enough to probably lift me over his shoulder. The only advice I can give you is that maybe my classmate had the right idea: don't get mad, get empowered. Take some self-defense classes or something. Or just keep active in your pride activities.
I hope things continue to improve for you after this.
I want to add that, since you say this isn't close to the first (nor the worst) incident, perhaps approaching the local cops about maybe starting a group like "Q Patrol" wouldn't be out of order? If ther eis enough "family" in the area, it might not be a bad idea to organize and look out for each other. The group here had quite a few straight members as well, as the Montrose community as a unit stood up and said, "NOT HERE".
Something to look into if the local police can't (or won't) do anything.
It is perfectly normal to want - and even to entertain vigilantism - justice / vengeance / punishment.
It is a testament to being on the higher moral plateau - albiet to some a hollow victory - that you do not seek to get a more personal vengeance upon the scumbags.
Bubba exacts frequent and brutal nightly vengeance on some scumbags I am told... as in, "Prison Bubba", a generic term coined here for the other scumbags that brutalize your buddy's assailants on a nightly basis.
Fanbelt optional - I hear Worchestershire is the desired saturation sauce...
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I keep dwelliong on it. I want them to f@&#ing fry, I've developed an increased hatred of homophobes. So does it make me a bad person that I want them punished as horribly as possible. I've never been a violent person but now .....
That depends.
How have you reacted to calls other people have made for retribution?What have you said to people who have advocated for the death penalty, or demanded harsher charges, or complained about lesser charges or lesser sentences?
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Trust me, Bubba will take over where the court leave off.
I really wonder, how many people would really consider active legal sentences of homosexual sexual assault as acceptable and appropriate.
Yet somehow the existence of such as an extra-judicial "enhancement" of the sentence is casually accepted.
I would say having the feelings doesn't make you a bad person. Perusing justice in this matter is not bad either.
A bad person wouldn't have bothered with the police and judicial system -- they would have just hunted these four children down, killed their relatives, and tortured these four people within an inch of their lives, then left.
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Trust me, Bubba will take over where the court leave off.I really wonder, how many people would really consider active legal sentences of homosexual sexual assault as acceptable and appropriate.
Yet somehow the existence of such as an extra-judicial "enhancement" of the sentence is casually accepted.
Funny, when I was in, no one was crying much when the pedophiles got theirs. But, then, kiddie porn dealers were getting less time than pot dealers in federal prison, so maybe the system has failed their victims...
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Funny, when I was in, no one was crying much when the pedophiles got theirs. But, then, kiddie porn dealers were getting less time than pot dealers in federal prison, so maybe the system has failed their victims...
Indeed they do not.
There are many hypocrites who will cry about the evil of government imposed death as a horrific transgression against the prohibition of "cruel and unusual" yet praise extra-judicial sexual assault as some transcendent thing to be relied upon to produce "justice" instead.Yet as I mused, what would happen were "death by zug-zug" be made the law of the land? How many would claim that is a horrific transgression against all that is "civilized"?
There is a great and destructive hypocrisy to appeal to the lusts of convicted criminals for "justice" while preening and showing off the holy cleanliness of one's hands as unsoiled with the blood of others.
Problem is, the system does fail people. My girlfriend's cousin and his friend were shot and killed by a guy who got pissed at a party and came back with a rifle. When he was in prison, awaiting trial, he was in a cell with a sex offender.
Due to overcrowding, they put a third guy in the cell with them. He was an 18 year old in for a gas-n-go. The two of them managed to beat the poor guy to death between one pass of the guard and the next.
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Funny, when I was in, no one was crying much when the pedophiles got theirs. But, then, kiddie porn dealers were getting less time than pot dealers in federal prison, so maybe the system has failed their victims...Indeed they do not.
There are many hypocrites who will cry about the evil of government imposed death as a horrific transgression against the prohibition of "cruel and unusual" yet praise extra-judicial sexual assault as some transcendent thing to be relied upon to produce "justice" instead.
Yet as I mused, what would happen were "death by zug-zug" be made the law of the land? How many would claim that is a horrific transgression against all that is "civilized"?
There is a great and destructive hypocrisy to appeal to the lusts of convicted criminals for "justice" while preening and showing off the holy cleanliness of one's hands as unsoiled with the blood of others.
Sam, I'm not the one, frankly. I have no problem with the death penalty, I have no problem with inmates who got off easy in the system doing what little time they got the hard way (snitches, for one, really piss me off), I'm pretty much a cold hearted bastard that way. I did time, I did that to myself, and I deserved whatever happened to me in the joint (which wasn't much, since I'm not a rat or a punk), and, frankly, I don't care about anyone's "rights" if they have no respect for anyone else's rights.
Go "gay bashing" and hurt someone for being different? I hope Bubba hurts you before taking what he wants.
I understand your point, though, that a lot of people will have all kinds of beliefs when bad things are a hypothetical that happens to others, but when it happens to them or someone they love forget their "principles". People should remember there is always someone for whom being a victim isn't a hypothetical...
I keep dwelliong on it. I want them to f~~~ing fry, I've developed an increased hatred of homophobes. So does it make me a bad person that I want them punished as horribly as possible. I've never been a violent person but now .....
These lunatics beat a person savagely because of what he is (and they better not try the drunk bit too much, that's not really a defense, if anything all it would do is argue against premeditation), and YOU'RE the one feeling guilt because you want to see them get a rightful punishment? O.o
You're not evil. You're not saying "I'm going to sneak into their cell and garotte them in their sleep" or "I'm going to go and kill their beloved puppies in revenge". You want to see them punished by a court of law. You want justice to take its course and find the lady witht he blindfold throwing her scales at them. This is not evil. And I have very short shrift with intolerant people of nay stripe myself -- what was that saying? "All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?"
(As an aside, IANL, but unless you have a good bit of proof, the attempted murder charge, sadly, probably won't stick. But there are some very nice jail terms for felony assault and battery we might be able to interest you in... ;) )
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I understand your point, though, that a lot of people will have all kinds of beliefs when bad things are a hypothetical that happens to others, but when it happens to them or someone they love forget their "principles". People should remember there is always someone for whom being a victim isn't a hypothetical...
That is why it outrages me.
Apparently executing an innocent person as painlessly as can be discovered is an atrocity that denies the humanity of our entire species, but the possibility of an innocent person being beaten and raped repeatedly is just "one of those things" that has to be tolerated as the cost of "really" punishing all those people certain individuals are incapable of punishing directly.To me that handwashing is an overwhelmingly worse atrocity against our collective and individual humanity than some mistaken executions because it encourages more casual attitudes towards the entire judicial and penal process.
And so that leads to my questions.
Are horrific penalties only to be imposed on those who transgress against us as individuals, and without any needless consideration of due process, but not for anyone else to dare to claim a right to because it offends an equally individual sense of the collective propriety?
If so, then the answer is very much yes, anyone advocating such a thing is a very bad person, who should be ashamed to be caught out in public demanding sympathy and support for the vengeance as justice he denied to others so arrogantly in the past.
If not, if one has the will to both permit justice for others and accept limits on one own's justice, then such feelings, even if they go beyond the normal bounds, as long as they are not acted on, are not improper at all.
The issue comes down to a lack of faith in our systems of justice. People may talk about all sorts of punishments for those who harm others, but in the end "justice" boils down to a few simple things: Victims want their lives restored to normal and the harm undone as much as possible, they want assurance that the perpetrator is truly regretful of his actions, and they want assurance that the wrongdoing won't happen again.
The problem is that people don't trust the system to reliably deliver these assurances. Instead we get talk about how a perpetrator will be victimized in turn, suffering "street justice" or other indignities. Such ideas forget that criminals are human beings with feelings and regrets, capable of understanding and change like anyone else. Only a small minority are true sociopaths, incapable of real empathy.