Any particular reason the store does not accept American Express?
In chance of it in the future?
Director of Sales
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Any particular reason the store does not accept American Express?
In chance of it in the future?
I'm sure Vic can/will correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe that American Express charges exorbitant fees to the merchants, and this is not something we are ever planning on accepting.
Thanks,
cos
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Chief Technical Officer
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Any particular reason the store does not accept American Express?
In chance of it in the future?
I'm sure Vic can/will correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe that American Express charges exorbitant fees to the merchants, and this is not something we are ever planning on accepting.
Thanks,
cos
Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as "exorbitant," but yes, Discover and AMEX would require significantly higher processing fees from us.
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Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as "exorbitant," but yes, Discover and AMEX would require significantly higher processing fees from us.
They are also aweful on charge-backs (retailer side), to the point of threatening to cancel contracts if you don't refund X person, even if you have proof that they did, in fact use/buy from you with both card scans, and an imprint of the card.
As someone who prefers American Express and uses it for the majority of his credit card purchases, I can tell you that I gladly put aside my preference in light of the above. I would much rather keep things more profitable for Paizo than to trade it for the small convenience (and return) that it would mean for me.
Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as "exorbitant," but yes, Discover and AMEX would require significantly higher processing fees from us.Any particular reason the store does not accept American Express?
In chance of it in the future?
I'm sure Vic can/will correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe that American Express charges exorbitant fees to the merchants, and this is not something we are ever planning on accepting.
Thanks,
cos
Thanks for the response. Understood!
Any chance that you all will take Paypal in the future as an alternative?
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V.--You might look into Visa Signature. I actually cancelled my AmEx a while ago because of the number of places that no longer accept it (two restaurants, B&N, and the Benz dealership are all that's left in Fairbanks). Visa Signature is virtually the same, is accepted everywhere in the Known World except Sam's Club, and it only carries a $75 annual fee instead of $450.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Any chance that you all will take Paypal in the future as an alternative?
Nope. Their authorization requirements aren't compatible with our business needs. However, PayPal does have a "Secure Card" program that lets US customers create single-use or multiple-use MasterCard numbers that function just like a MasterCard from our side, but draw from your PayPal account on your side. See PayPal's site for details.
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When others are charging 1% less for the same service, that 1% seems exorbitant- especially in the long term.
Given that Paizo makes its bread and butter off of subscription sales (i.e. credit card transactions) I'd wager that the 70 cents per book tends to add up rather quickly. And thats assuming its 1% rather than 1.7%.
In short- if AmEx wants to be accepted in more places, maybe they should get in line with the other CC fees.
-S
I don't mean to be a troll however I feel very strongly about this matter. Let me first state that I am an employee of American Express and I am NOT speaking on behalf of the company nor am I compensated in any way. What I'm about to say are my own unbiased words and DO NOT represent American Express in any way/shape/form.
Welcome to the Paizo forums! :-)
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Another complaint that I've seen here is that Amex "forces" you to credit back the customer in a dispute (aka charge-back). Nothing could be further from the truth. Many times, it's simply because the merchant doesn't clearly spell their refund/return policies. Think about it from a legal perspective, most businesses have policies/signed waivers etc in place to make sure they don't get sued in court. Same concept here.
As the one who brought this up before, I figured I should tell why I brought that up. I worked at a hotel, and multiple times AmEx threatened our hotel that they would terminate thier agreement with us because a cardholder said that they had not stayed with us, We had a scan, meaning that the customer was in front of us and handed us the card. We also had an imprint of the card, proving that they were in front of us, and had handed us the card. We sent Amex copies of these, the signed registration card, and the video of the person signing said piece of paper and handing us the card. Amex said "yes that's them, refund them or you can't accept Amex anymore".
Also 70 cents times 100,000 books is $7000.00 - thats prolly the cost of another piece of art. (Note I do not know what paizo pays for art)
Customer Service Manager
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We actually looked into AMEX semi-recently when we made the change that added Discover as a payment option. Unfortunately, its just not feasible at this time. We do look into every now and then to see if either our situation or their contract has changed, however, so far it has not worked out.
thanks
sara marie
I'd just like to put in my two cents here: I do routinely evaluate our credit card processing options. It simply costs more to take American Express than any other credit card (you may note that last year I added Discover to the list of cards we accept) and by a significant margin.
I'm an American Express holder myself. I wish we could take it. But the extra fees charged are quite high comparatively, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to accept it at this time.
We actually looked into AMEX semi-recently when we made the change that added Discover as a payment option. Unfortunately, its just not feasible at this time. We do look into every now and then to see if either our situation or their contract has changed, however, so far it has not worked out.
I didn't know you added Discover!
This makes me happy! I am going to switch my recorded card data right now. You should make an announcement or something. This is something I've wanted for years.
In Australia at least it's relatively common to have an "American express incurs a 2% surcharge)" clause, or similar. I don't know if its actually legal or not, but it would give people the choice without costing paizo anything (other than the code to recognise the payment method and adjust the cost accordingly).
Not only is it legal to inform them of that (so far as I know), but there's also some pending legislation/court decisions that allows merchants to charge customers a portion of their credit card processing fees. Paizo has no intention of doing so, for the record.
Sorry, I didn't mean was it legal to inform them - I meant passing it on. Here retailers will often wear the c/card fees for visa/MasterCard but levy a 2% charge on Amex. (Many pass on the full c/card fee, regardless of card, so I guess we already have that legislation).
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Customer Service Manager
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It actually kicked into effect on January 27th of this year. Most major retailers are choosing not to add in a surcharge at the moment. While this was approved on a national level, its actually still illegal in some states.
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Not only is it legal to inform them of that (so far as I know), but there's also some pending legislation/court decisions that allows merchants to charge customers a portion of their credit card processing fees. Paizo has no intention of doing so, for the record.
That is interesting news, as this is absolutely forbidden here in Europe. Maybe we'll have a good idea for once and follow the US lead.
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I had a corporate AmEx card when I worked for a large company (more like, I was forced to get a corporate AmEX). I only ever used it for plane tickets and hotels because it was worthless for anything else. And the terms were terrible and sometimes at odds with the company's travel reimbursement policy/procedures.
-Skeld
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Speaking as an American Express cardholder, I am a little disappointed that Paizo doesn't take AmEx, but I also understand the rationale. Also, being someone used to occasionally having stores not take AmEx, I also carry a Mastercard for just those situations. I'd be very surprised if most of your other AmEx-using customers didn't also have a Visa/MC for situations where their preferred card is not accepted.
To be honest, I don't have much trouble using my AmEx card. Most of the big chain stores take them, as do most of the grocery stores and other places I frequently pay with credit cards. Occasionally I'll run into a movie theater or mom & pop restaurant, or a website like Paizo that doesn't take them, at which point I whip out my Mastercard and get on with my day. No biggie.
So, to Paizo: I'd like it if you also took American Express -- but not if it breaks your bank. I'd much rather you took my money some other way and used the savings to produce some more cool products for me to buy! :-)
I earn extra rewards (frequent flyer points in my case, although I have the option of other stuff).
I have one credit card "account" with my American Express as the primary card and a mastercard secondary card (charges incurred on either show up on the same statement).
There are a few threshold/monthly limit issues, but I basically earn twice as many frequent flyer points when I'm able to use the American Express card.
I dont find many places which refuse to take it (although some charge an american express 'surcharge'). Generally, I impose my own ban and only use it at the larger places. Smaller, family owned shops I'll generally use the mastercard.
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I tend to spend more when using my AMEX card as well. I would prefer it if Paizo started accepting it. After all, Paizo is becoming a major online retailer. It is time to catch up to the modern world of online retail.
You know what other business only accepts Visa/MasterCard?
Online inkjet cartridge refill companies.
Paizo is in a different league than that. Besides, with the AP increase, I think it's time to go AmEx.
No one uses Discover.
A fairly standard example of how AmEx treats merchants based on his experience at a hotel.
Your experience is typical of everything I've seen and heard regarding AmEx and how they treat vendors. It's not just the %.
-TimD
I accept credit cards in my small business. But I do NOT accept AMEX. The fees they charge and the hoops one must jump through are simply not worth my time or effort. People find other ways to pay me or they hire someone else, but I've never had a potential client go elsewhere on the basis of my not accepting AMEX.
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Trinite - benefits of Amex is double reward points per dollar spent.
Is there any possibility of Paizo passing on all of the extra cost to the consumer? I don't think this has been asked in the thread yet and seems like a too-obvious solution :)
You may want to do the math on that, you may find that a 2% surcharge to use the card in exchange for rewards that are typically indexed <1% when exchanged. So even if Amex is 2x the points 2*(<1%) = <2%
In other words don't let shiny reward points make you spend more for less.
You just gross it up a bit. In Australia it's not uncommon for using an American Express card to incur a 3% surcharge or even higher (ie more than the actual fee). For simplicity, assuming non Amex cards cost 1% and Amex cards cost 2% (with the merchant charging a 3% surcharge):
A standard (non-Amex) transaction would net the merchant: $100 - $1 = $99
Whereas an Amex (2%) transaction would net them: $103 - $2.06 = $100.94
Those numbers arent exactly right, but that's the basic idea. You can choose an appropriate surcharge to exactly cover the fee (I think a 2.5% surcharge will exactly cover a 2% fee on a $100 purchase) or to bring it inline with the other cards.
Having said that, it sounds to me like it's not going to happen in a hurry.
Yeah. The merchant applies a surcharge greater than the fee and the consumer ends up paying even more. Maybe I misunderstood your question.
But wouldn't AMEX charge you based on the $103 (thus the fee would be 2.06) and not the $100 ?
If the book costs $50, and the surcharge is 3% (for example), the retailer pays a fee of $1.50, so the retailer only makes $48.50 on the book.
If the book costs $50 and the retailer charges $51.50 including a transaction surcharge, 3% of that is $1.55 (rounded from 1.545), which leaves the retailer with $49.95 after the deduction.
Note that I'm just using 3% as a nice round number. I don't know the actual percentage.
The retailer keeps almost all the price of the actual product, while passing the fee on to the customer. ($1.50 surcharge for the retailer, versus $1.55 for the customer in this 3% example.) Note, however, in my example, that the retailer does absorb the difference (five cents) in the surcharge price, because they only make the $49.95 on the book, not the full $50 cover price.
Note that you can do the same problem with $100 and $103 by just doubling all the numbers I used. I just chose $50 because it's the cover price of the Core Rulebook.
It doesn't matter whether the surcharge is 2% or 2.5% or 2.7% or whatever, if the retailer adds a surcharge for the percentage before the surcharge, the retailer only ends up paying the difference on the price increase, so comes out ahead by passing on the transaction cost. The customer pays the transaction cost on top of the product cost, but not adjusted for the new transaction cost.
Just for the record--Vic has already clarified that the term "exhorbitant" may be a bit of an overstatement.
That said...
An extra "70 cents" is marginal. Until you look at the rate, and not the per-transaction amount, and note that (taking the average of the rates supplied by Famous) AmEx's 3.0 percent (average) is a 50 percent increase over Discover, and a 67 percent increase over Visa/Mastercard.
Regarding the report that discusses increased spending by AmEx card members, I'm willing to bet that is referring to aggregate spending, not per-transaction spending. So, the affluence of AmEx card holders is probably of benefit to expensive restaurants, nicer car dealers (and the service visits that come with), higher-end retailers, etc. If so, it is primarily high-end luxury industries that account for the majority of the increased spending, and not necessarily marginal (no offense, folks) industries like RPG companies.
So, we would have to accept that adding the card as a payment option would generate new customers (those who either do not currently purchase Paizo products at all, or purchase them through another agency, which accepts AmEx), or entice current customers to spend more, AND that these new sales would more than offset the loss of revenue from current customers who change their payment method to AmEx from, say, Visa, to gain the benefit of using their AmEx card.
Notwithstanding the experience of our new poster (welcome, by the way), I'm not certain that there would be a substantial increase in sales to current customers using AmEx instead of some other card, nor that there would be an influx of new customers, unless I see some sort of report that suggests the hobby is abnormally highly-distributed among the affluent. That leaves little or no increase in sales to offset the pure loss in revenue that comes from current customers changing payment options. Further, if only 11 percent of transactions (note: not 11 percent of customers, nor of sales--and I'm guessing that figure is much smaller for the RPG industry, offset by a larger percentage for airline travel or hotel accomodations), the business risk is not necessarily offset by a sufficiently large core of potential customers/sales.
I also don't mean to sound like a troll, or a counter-troll, or whatever. But when a company makes a business decision like this, they need to consider all of these factors and the expected outcome of each decision. I suspect I probably haven't stated my case all that well. I could explain it better, but then I'd need charts and graphs and an easel.
I feel the OP's pain-- I received a $100 AmEx gift card as a birthday present from my mother-in-law. I'd planned to use it to buy a bunch of PDFs from Paizo and RPGNow, but neither accepts the card. (I'm using it at Amazon instead).
I fully understand why Paizo has chosen not to accept the card: Cost-benefit analysis indicates no net benefit.
AmEx tends toward a wealthier clientele, and seems to be used mainly to purchase luxury goods and travel expenses (airfare, hotels, etc.) The fees associated with using it do seem high. While the Feds have changed the laws to allow it, several states still do not allow merchants to pass off charge fees to the customers. Keeping track of such rules on a state-by-state basis would require a lot of extra record-keeping by Paizo staff.
On that note, I cancelled my own AmEx card decades ago. I saw little value in keeping a credit card that charged an annual fee for the privilege of using it.
I honestly don't know if this can be done, but ... could you use your AmEx gift card to purchase a Visa gift card? Or is there some redemption rule that prevents one from funding a gift card with a gift card?
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I honestly don't know if this can be done, but ... could you use your AmEx gift card to purchase a Visa gift card? Or is there some redemption rule that prevents one from funding a gift card with a gift card?
Some stores won't let you, and some credit card gift cards have an activation fee, so you'd actually loose some $