When I heard that Elaine Cunningham was coming aboard for Golarion fiction, it was yet one more sign to me that Paizo is doing so many, many, many things dead-right.
(Yet another sign- 'Shemeska' i.e., amazing Planescape guy, writing the Golarion Planes tome. HOLLA.)
Elaine Cunningham is just fantastic. Picking up someone's stray copy of Daughter of the Drow was what got me into D&D (and now Pathfinder - I don't deal with that *other* company anymore) as an adult. And oh, how fun it's been!
Elaine is also a fantastically considerate person in terms of the time and the thought she gives to readers in forums like this one. We're lucky to have her, and thanks to the OP for thinking up this thread!
Anyway- I cannot WAIT to read to read about Channa (Channi?) Ti!
((Elaine- this is Marcus from the Lillith anthology, btw. Been meaning to write you for FOREVER, OMG. I'll buzz you off-thread. And- seriously- I was *so* excited when I heard you were going to be writing in Golarion. YES!)
-M
OK, rather than take a nap like any sensible person would after two solid days of chapter revision, I read the first Channa Ti installment. I'm hooked: pulled me right in, and not only made me stay awake but passed the "made me forget I was reading" test.
Did you read it from the PDF?- man, I'm tempted to pay for that right now- though I know I'll end up (-happily) plopping money down for the hard copy, too...
Director of Brand Strategy
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Did you read it from the PDF?- man, I'm tempted to pay for that right now- though I know I'll end up (-happily) plopping money down for the hard copy, too...
You should totally get a subscription. At least for this adventure path in which Elaine's work will appear. You'll get the pdf's free when your hard copies ship, which is sometimes three weeks before they are available to purchase individually or before the books hit brick & mortar stores. And the subscriber discount off cover price more than covers shipping in most cases. Do it, Marcus. Dooooo iiiiittttt!
You should totally get a subscription. At least for this adventure path in which Elaine's work will appear. You'll get the pdf's free when your hard copies ship, which is sometimes three weeks before they are available to purchase individually or before the books hit brick & mortar stores. And the subscriber discount off cover price more than covers shipping in most cases. Do it, Marcus. Dooooo iiiiittttt!
You are like the emissary of the Runelords of Greed and Envy and Avarice and I don't think I can resist your cunning blandishments much longer!!!! MUST...EXERT...WILL-POWER....
Marcus! Cheerful and effusive as ever, I see. :) It's good to hear from you.
I'm not surprised to hear that you've become interestd in Pathfinder. There's a lot to like about the setting, the editors, and the community.
MUST...EXERT...WILL-POWER....
Hahaha! Silly person! Resistance is futile! :)
Remember you have to repeat that save once per round!
:P
I'm good at that, I have a Girlfriend :)
Why the capital G? Almost as suspicious as ""s around a word, if you ask me :D
So, now having read all the new posts from the last couple of days/weeks with my rumourmongering filter engaged, I conclude from the various responses that we will get PF novels from Elaine Cunningham and others within the year!
So, now having read all the new posts from the last couple of days/weeks with my rumourmongering filter engaged, I conclude from the various responses that we will get PF novels from Elaine Cunningham and others within the year!
I can totally confirm that.
So, now having read all the new posts from the last couple of days/weeks with my rumourmongering filter engaged, I conclude from the various responses that we will get PF novels from Elaine Cunningham and others within the year!
Huh. I've been out of the shared-world-fiction business (except for Star Wars, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...) for a while, so I'd forgotten about that rumourmongering filter.
About that.
Really, I'm not making timeline predictions. At this point, I honestly don't know what publication schedule Paizo has in mind. You'll need to scrutinize the posts of Paizo employees for that sort of info (or better yet, wait for them to announce it). I'm just here to talk about Channa's story.
That said, I can see how my post about a Wildly Optimistic Hypothetical Schedule could be misconstrued by people who've grown accustomed to the wink-nudge hinting that goes on in this industry. If you've ever been to the "Secrets of the Realms" panel at GenCon, you will know whereof I speak. But I never particularly liked those panels, mostly because I don't DO coy. So you can take what I say here at face value and rest assured that there are no air quotes around the word hypothetical.
So. Could we drop this line of inquiry, and leave it up to the folks at Paizo to reveal their plans in their own time?
Much appreciated. :)
Yep, Marcus, I read it from the pdf.
And if you knew how incredibly awesome this volume looked, your resistance would dissolve in a fiery eruption of subscribing.
Immediate electronic gratification, impending eschaton of chartaceous consummation.
Did you read it from the PDF?- man, I'm tempted to pay for that right now- though I know I'll end up (-happily) plopping money down for the hard copy, too...
If you know you're going to be spending the money anyway, Marcus, then why wouldn't you subscribe? As has been pointed out, the pdf is included for free, and you get to download it as soon as they ship your hardcopy, which is well before the volume is available in stores. Plus, Paizo makes more money from direct purchases.
Pathfinder fiction has been greenlit, and the fires of the juggernaut are being stoked as we speak. I can tell you that you're almost certainly not going to see any books in 2009, but beyond that...
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Pathfinder fiction has been greenlit, and the fires of the juggernaut are being stoked as we speak. I can tell you that you're almost certainly not going to see any books in 2009, but beyond that...
Um, you forgot to finish your sentence there. I know things are busy in the Paizo editorial pit, but as an editor, I thought you'd catch such a glaring error. Go ahead and continue.
Pathfinder fiction has been greenlit, and the fires of the juggernaut are being stoked as we speak. I can tell you that you're almost certainly not going to see any books in 2009, but beyond that...
Thank you. That's as clear and specific as anyone can realistically expect.
Hi Elaine!
Yes, I continue to be a one-man cheer factory. Yes, it's sometime nauseating. ; ) Alas! But I truly am happy to find you here in Paizo-land...
Various Emissaries of the Runelords:
Okay okay okay okay. You guys are doing a fine job of convincing me to subscribe.
Here's my biggest concern. The building I live in, although great and glorious in many ways
(http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/783/413985.JPG - no kidding- though clearly the WHOLE place is not mine...)
has these tiny, rinky-dink, aluminum *sparrow-coffins* for 'mailboxes'. Mail gets jammed into them by raging barbarians (okay, postal workers) - and stuff gets beat up all to hell.
And one place where I am quite the fanboy is this: I like my stuff pristine. Hate scuffs and dings and all. Especially on such high quality stuff as the Paizo offerings.
So um- does stuff come in big cardboard boxes, or what?
God knows I'd like to support Paizo- so if they get a bigger cut from subscriptions, I'm interested...
Whoops, I totally just thread-jacked. Sorry!
Back on topic:
Elaine, if you have time, I bet we'd all love to hear what bits of the Golarion world you find especially intriguing: any particular nations, races, legends, demon lords, gods, etc. As a creator, what's been setting your mental wheels a-whirring? (Not necessarily that you're gonna then write tales about it, just curious as to what's esp. caught your fancy...)
M
Pathfinder fiction has been greenlit, and the fires of the juggernaut are being stoked as we speak. I can tell you that you're almost certainly not going to see any books in 2009, but beyond that...
Dude, dude, dude!!!!!!
Suh-weet!!!!
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Director of Brand Strategy
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So um- does stuff come in big cardboard boxes, or what?
To continue the threadjack, they come in boxes if it's a large enough order, but typically this is just when there are a ton of books ordered or if it's got a hardcover in with it. Anything thinner goes out in cardboard mailers which do not bend easily, and even have "Do Not Bend" on them. I have found that they don't fit in small mailboxes, so are generally held by the post office to be picked up from them at your convenience, but YMMV. Only one way to find out, right?
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Various Emissaries of the Runelords:
Okay okay okay okay. You guys are doing a fine job of convincing me to subscribe.
Here's my biggest concern. The building I live in, although great and glorious in many ways
(http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/783/413985.JPG - no kidding- though clearly the WHOLE place is not mine...)
has these tiny, rinky-dink, aluminum *sparrow-coffins* for 'mailboxes'. Mail gets jammed into them by raging barbarians (okay, postal workers) - and stuff gets beat up all to hell.And one place where I am quite the fanboy is this: I like my stuff pristine. Hate scuffs and dings and all. Especially on such high quality stuff as the Paizo offerings.
If you choose to ship with UPS, it comes in a cardboard mailer which is then put in a box which can't be bent.
Elaine, if you have time, I bet we'd all love to hear what bits of the Golarion world you find especially intriguing: any particular nations, races, legends, demon lords, gods, etc. As a creator, what's been setting your mental wheels a-whirring? (Not necessarily that you're gonna then write tales about it, just curious as to what's esp. caught your fancy...)
One of the things I find intriguing about Golarion is the notion that the time of prophecy has past, yet people have not yet caught up with that idea. They're still attempting to read the future, sometimes in bizarre ways. A stellar example of this was in a Pathfinder Journal episode a while back, when Eando's young guide took him to a troll "seer" who routinely disemboweled itself and read customers' futures in its own entrails.
There's more to fantasy than the flash and gore of sword-and-spell battle. Very often it illuminates something important about human nature, and here Golarian strikes a particularly resonant chord. There are a lot of people who want answers handed to them. There are still more people who will go to great lengths to impose some sort of order and meaning on life, even though (and sometimes especially if) that requires embracing odd delusions. This little detail makes the world feel real and logical, by virtue of its realistically illogical take on human nature.
Huh. I've been out of the shared-world-fiction business (except for Star Wars, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...) for a while, so I'd forgotten about that rumourmongering filter.
I'm just joking.
Still, if you're not already thinking about writing novels set in Golarion, consider yourself strongly urged to do so.
One of the things I find intriguing about Golarion is the notion that the time of prophecy has past, yet people have not yet caught up with that idea.
It certainly is a great way to explain why those divination spells don't just tell you everything you want to know with no chance for error.
Troll seers are a great idea, and I like Harrow readings, too.
They do a great job of blending classical D&D and classical fantasy in general.
One thing I just read the other day is their take on the classical dragon - fire breathing, rampaging, maiden-demanding. In PF, that's the Reds' job. And it's even explained why they want those maidens and what they do with it.
One thing I just read the other day is their take on the classical dragon - fire breathing, rampaging, maiden-demanding. In PF, that's the Reds' job. And it's even explained why they want those maidens and what they do with it.
I haven't read that yet, but I'll have to take a look. You seldom see people explain WHY dragons want what they want. Why is that, I wonder? Do we assume their ways are alien and unknowable to mere humans? Are we mindlessly employing a common fantasy trope, plugging in a standard-issue monster as needed? Somewhere between those two?
Recently I was invited to write a short story for a small press anthology that addresses this very issue. WHY do dragons hoard treasure, study magic, love music, and covet virgins? Since music (which tends to be my default fantasy topic) was taken, I suggested a story that explores dragons' fascination with riddles. Haven't written it yet, or even come up with a working premise, but I'm looking forward to thinking this one through.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Pathfinder fiction has been greenlit, and the fires of the juggernaut are being stoked as we speak. I can tell you that you're almost certainly not going to see any books in 2009, but beyond that...Dude, dude, dude!!!!!!
Suh-weet!!!!
*Stuffs Randy into a tiny, rinky-dink, aluminum *sparrow-coffin*
A maiden is an "it"? You really are a German, aren't you KaeYoss. ;)
(Mark Twain/Sir Kenneth Clark moment)
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Elaine,
I just had a chance to read through "Double Dealings" for the first time on my lunch break today and must say I'm already engrossed. You've done a great job of planting the seeds of what is sure to be an exciting little novella. It didn't take long for Channa to grow on me, and I look forward to reading more of her tale in a few weeks. I'm intrigued by Xanchara and hope we find out a lot more about it, as well as the little elephants that apparently live throughout Vudra and their Drowned God, a reference I don't think we've heard yet in any other Pathfinder material.
When you write a character for shared world fiction, especially one in which the verisimilitude of the world is based on game mechanics, how much consideration do you give to these elements, like alignment, caster level for spells and such? Or do you just write and let the game designers backwards engineer stats to match your story?
Thanks for a great six pages of fun. Can't wait for more!
Elaine,
When you write a character for shared world fiction, especially one in which the verisimilitude of the world is based on game mechanics, how much consideration do you give to these elements, like alignment, caster level for spells and such? Or do you just write and let the game designers backwards engineer stats to match your story?
Game mechanics are important. I don't start out with a PC character sheet when I'm writing a story, but I find it interesting that the creation of any character, whether in a shared-world or original setting, involves answering many of the same questions gamers address when creating a PC.
Obviously there are certain elements, such as race and class, that have to be determined up front. Age is important, too, and this ties closely with a character's level. You need to know a character's skills, personality, physical and mental abilities, flaws and weaknesses, and equipment. I generally don't list spells. For the most part, I prefer to use newly created spells that fall within the ballpark for official spells of that level.
There aren't a lot of spells in this story, but there are some new magical items and creatures. The game designers assign stats to those items and creatures they decide to feature in sidebars. But they do not go through the first draft and retcon it to Pathfinder rules. If something doesn't quite fit the rules and setting, James Sutter, the editor on this project, pointed out the problem and I fixed it in revision. But it would never occur to me to hand in a generic fantasy story and say, "Here--set this in Golarion." :)
As I type this, I'm reminded of an email I received a few years back from an aspiring writing who was working on a (totally unapproved and unsolicited) trilogy set in the Forgotten Realms. The problem was, he didn't want to be bothered reading the game materials and novels set in the Realms, so he wanted to send me his manuscript as he wrote it so I could plug in an appropriate amount of Realms-related material. I mention this not only I find chutzpah on this magnitude amusing, but because it shows how shared-world fiction DOES'T work. I firmly believe that you need to be immersed in the world to write in it. That means reading the materials and understanding the mechanics.
I'm intrigued by Xanchara and hope we find out a lot more about it, as well as the little elephants that apparently live throughout Vudra and their Drowned God, a reference I don't think we've heard yet in any other Pathfinder material.
The Reliquary of the Drowned God is an artifact newly invented for this story. Keep in mind that the Vudrani worship hundreds of minor gods, so detailing all of them in game materials would be impractical (and, imo, undesirable). This is the sort of thing that gives creative wiggle room to DMs, adventure designers, and fiction writers.
You might want to take another look at that little elephant. It's not quite as described above. :)
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I'm intrigued by Xanchara and hope we find out a lot more about it, as well as the little elephants that apparently live throughout Vudra and their Drowned God, a reference I don't think we've heard yet in any other Pathfinder material.The Reliquary of the Drowned God is an artifact newly invented for this story. Keep in mind that the Vudrani worship hundreds of minor gods, so detailing all of them in game materials would be impractical (and, imo, undesirable). This is the sort of thing that gives creative wiggle room to DMs, adventure designers, and fiction writers.
You might want to take another look at that little elephant. It's not quite as described above. :)
I completely agree about leaving wiggle room by not over-detailing everything. That's been a major criticism of FR for a long time and I'd hate to see Golarion end up the same way. And I recognize that the elephant wasn't really what it seemed, but Vanir does say that they are common in Vudra, thus the ruse worked against him.
So what alignment would you say Channa is? I know she's gotta be neutral (something) but I can't determine if it's true neutral or chaotic neutral from the six pages of her I've been exposed to.
So what alignment would you say Channa is? I know she's gotta be neutral (something) but I can't determine if it's true neutral or chaotic neutral from the six pages of her I've been exposed to.
Neutral, certainly, but I didn't deliberately assign either true neutral or chaotic neutral allignment. I'm inclined toward chaotic neutral, but I'm always hesitant to assign specific stats to my characters.
Here's the thing: I don't see alignment as an absolute, but a spectrum. Like strength, skill, intelligence, and size, one character's stats are determined by that character's place on the overall spectrum. I think more perspective is needed than one fiction writer can provide; otherwise, you end up with a bunch of characters who are, statistically speaking, as powerful as or even more powerful than major NPC or iconic characters. You don't want to end up with 20-year-old humans who could whup Drizzt in a sword battle and a bevy of nubile wizard's apprentices who could hand Elmister his fireball-fried ass. So though in my mind Channa might be chaotic neutral, it's quite likely that some Paizo game designer would snort and say, "You call THAT chaotic? Not when she's stacked up against iconic characters currently in the pipeline...."
James, if you're reading this thread and want to weigh in on the specifics of Channa's alignment, please feel free.
I haven't read that yet, but I'll have to take a look. You seldom see people explain WHY dragons want what they want. Why is that, I wonder? Do we assume their ways are alien and unknowable to mere humans? Are we mindlessly employing a common fantasy trope, plugging in a standard-issue monster as needed? Somewhere between those two?
Yeah, I think it's usually a mix. It's so much faster just to take something whose stats fit the desired encounter and sic it on the heroes. Thinking about the monster's motivation only takes time.
In that instant, I was specifically referring to maidens and (red) dragons' obsession with them, not why dragons are generally greedy.
In this case, they see those pretty girls merely as treasure. Plus, they delight in taking that is very dear to those they terrorise. Reds are among the most corrupted of the chromatic sept.
James, if you're reading this thread and want to weigh in on the specifics of Channa's alignment, please feel free.
I am, and I don't. :) Characters should work within the structure of the game we've created, but I have no interest in straitjacketing authors by providing concrete stats (even nebulous things like alignment) until long after they're finished with a character - and maybe not even then.
It's all you, Elaine....
I am, and I don't. :) Characters should work within the structure of the game we've created, but I have no interest in straitjacketing authors by providing concrete stats (even nebulous things like alignment) until long after they're finished with a character - and maybe not even then.
James, if you're reading this thread and want to weigh in on the specifics of Channa's alignment, please feel free.
::nods:: Hard to argue with that. The lack of stats may be an inconvenience for those gamers who want to incorporate characters from game-related fiction into their campaigns, but it sure does make life easier for the people who write that game-related fiction.
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I have no interest in straitjacketing authors by providing concrete stats (even nebulous things like alignment) until long after they're finished with a character - and maybe not even then.
So does this mean we may see more of Channa past this run? Or is this a "and maybe not even then" time?
Edit - just really asking because of the previous mentions of 'wink, wink- nudge nudge' comments
I have no interest in straitjacketing authors by providing concrete stats (even nebulous things like alignment) until long after they're finished with a character - and maybe not even then.
I take it you weren't a fervent supporter of having Eando's stats in #18?
I think Mrs. C has come out pretty strongly against "wink-wink, nudge-nudge."
Seriously, after installment one, I'm hoping to see more Channa Ti.
Seriously, after installment one, I'm hoping to see more Channa Ti.
Five more episodes to come! :)
Sorry...I mixed two thoughts and it came out that way. :S
The thought behind the gobbledy-goop:
I'm really looking forward to the coming installments, but so far I enjoyed the first so much that I'm hoping these aren't all we'll see of C.T.
Woops. I just skipped right over Sutter. I must need to take a break.
Woops. I just skipped right over Sutter. I must need to take a break.
It's the icon. Gamers have grown accustomed to overlooking bards. ;)
Something good came out of my mistake after all!
Woops. I just skipped right over Sutter. I must need to take a break.It's the icon. Gamers have grown accustomed to overlooking bards. ;)
Bah! Those times are over. Long will be the time before anyone in Varisia forgets the heroics of Allezandro Mandrezi (mainly because he's the one writing the ballads and playing them everywhere ;-)).
The one with the cowardly dwarf is his favourite.
I have no interest in straitjacketing authors by providing concrete stats (even nebulous things like alignment) until long after they're finished with a character - and maybe not even then.
I take it you weren't a fervent supporter of having Eando's stats in #18?
Actually, I wrote Eando's stats for #18. :) While he originated with Erik Mona, I've been in charge of Eando since pretty much the start of the journal, and feel a fair bit of ownership where he's concerned. While he's still out there somewhere, I wanted to make sure that #18 had a note of finality to it, and as such didn't have a problem giving out his stats (or at least, his CURRENT stats).
Somebody like Channa Ti, however, I'd be less eager to stat up, as we want the authors to maintain as much creative freedom as possible. As for whether you'll see more of her after this arc... well, that depends. If Elaine came to me tomorrow and said "I have an amazing idea for another Channa Ti story," I might say "Great! Let's do it!" But it's equally likely that I'd encourage her to introduce a new character, because our world is still pretty young, and fiction is one of the best places to bring in new characters who people can connect with and then incorporate into their games. Golarion is FULL of interesting folks, and it's important to spread the spotlight around.
Reread the story today. I think I know why I like Channa Ti. A lot of characters who come off as surprising do so by sacrificing the sense that they are a real character, consistent to some sort of realistic personality. Instead, they come off as random and unreal (perhaps even mad.) But in "Dark Tapestry," Channa Ti surprises me while retaining the sense that there is a believable (sane) character underneath the surprises.
Edit:
If Elaine came to me tomorrow and said "I have an amazing idea for another Channa Ti story," I might say "Great! Let's do it!" But it's equally likely that I'd encourage her to introduce a new character, because our world is still pretty young, and fiction is one of the best places to bring in new characters who people can connect with and then incorporate into their games. Golarion is FULL of interesting folks, and it's important to spread the spotlight around.
I'd have to agree with this. There's a lot to be said for continuing- character storylines--including the fact that fantasy readers have come to expect them--but in a world so new, starting out with a variety of characters probably makes more sense.
Admittedly, I have mixed feelings about this issue. On the one hand, stories with recurring character help build an audience; on the other, I wouldn't mind seeing more stand-alone fantasy stories. The former is probably better for the individual writer, but the latter, imo, better serves the setting.