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Since several folks want an urban adventuring sourcebook, but don't like Cityscape:
What makes a good urban adventuring sourcebook? What topics would it cover?
Good question. Off the top of my head, some things that would catch my fancy:
The obvious thing, as always, is the normal crunch: PrCs, feats, spells. Although I wouldn't mind core classes, I'd really like to see some variants on core classes (like UA's urban ranger, except that turns out not to be such a good variant and it doesn't really feel like it's embedded in the urban setting, at least not to me). In moderation, of course. And in the best possible taste. Etc, etc.
Not aimed directly at you Bagpuss, but this just reminded me of something I don't want to see again : a rule chiseled into stone that every book released has to have a section for new feats, spells, PrC's etc. You could get a great book on Dungeons or Cities without adding any extra 'crunch'. That way lies rules bloat and (accidental) killer PrC combos.
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Not aimed directly at you Bagpuss, but this just reminded me of something I don't want to see again : a rule chiseled into stone that every book released has to have a section for new feats, spells, PrC's etc. You could get a great book on Dungeons or Cities without adding any extra 'crunch'. That way lies rules bloat and (accidental) killer PrC combos.
I don't care o much about what's in other books, but I really would like some PrCs for urban adventuring and maybe some feats, too. And, as I said, urban variants of classes. Also I can see that new spells for urban campaigns might be appropriate (although probably not too many). I don't that this section of the book need be too large, however.
I guess that one minimal criteria is that anything added in this fashion shouldn't be more powerful out of the urban setting than in it.
Oh, and city traits would also rock, although I am not sure whether traits are just for Golarion or will appear in more general non-specific books.s
An urban adventures supplement would be very nice - I remember being very excited about Cityscape, but never actually bought it because it didn't impress me enough. Something like that for Pathfinder would be a nice addition. I ran a campaign for two years that never really left one city, and it was fun but it probably could have been better with a bit more guidance.
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What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
I'd like to see a book on encounter building. It would discuss and provide plenty of examples on how to use the APL/ECL/traps systems in more depth. Also, it would discuss how to adjust encounters for mix/maxed PC; parties primarily composed of magic-users, rogues, PCs don't have the right number or right magic items, etc. A great help for harried DMs would be how to adjust monsters, traps, etc., on the fly, or building adventures within a short period of time.
Something I would like to see was some kind of alternative rules to play Pathfinder as if it was a classless system. Even if a classless system is not of your liking, an alternative rules book is a cool one, in my oppinion :)
This gets my vote. It could be included as part of an "Unearthed Arcana" type book full of options...
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Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Discuss.
I'm way tired of the prestige classes and would prefer expanding Class Options instead. More fighter feats, more Domain powers <not necessarily domains>, etc. Give the players the options they want without 100 different classes.... Just new feat/class ability trees
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... It could be included as part of an "Unearthed Arcana" type book full of options...
I, personally, like to see a book that is combination of the best parts of the Unearthed Arcana (UA), Player's Handbook II (PHB II) and Dungeon Master's Guide II (DMG II). By this I mean the following:
UA: Anlernative Classes [eg. Paladins of Liberty (Chaotic Good), Tyranny (Lawful Evil) and Slaughter (Chaotic Evil)]; Alternative Races ( eg. Desert Elves, Arctic Dwarves, etc.)PHB II: New Classes (Knight, Favored Soul and what not). New Races [Playable races of different sizes other than Medium or Small (Half-Ogres I am giving you a shout out) and "Plane-Touched" Races (Aasimar, Teiflings, Gensai etc.) that don't have Level Adjustments]
DMG II: Running generic campaigns (as well as designing your own); Oh heck the DMGII how all sorts of goodies!
Anyway that's my feelings on the subject!
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I do not want an new psionic ruleset. I have a 3.5 ruleset for psionics that works very well. I have many supplements from Dreamscarred Press that have built on the 3.5 rules and the Hyperconsciousness rules.
But removing the +1 LA adjustment on the psychic races they will be more or less on par with the races in the Beta book. So there is no need to play with the psionic rules, they work just fine.
I would like to see the following source books in addition to more Bestiaries.
A source books, such as the Unearthed Arcana, that contains alternate rules even if they do break D&D 3.5 compatibility. There were many good suggestions to fix the game, but were left out due to compatibility worries. There are many of us that don't mind a little extra work in preparation if the work results in a better game. Currently DMs and players need to do work on feats, skills already to do conversions from other sources.
Definitely an Epic rule book that continues smoothly in class skills. I think the epic rules need to be redone, especially with the spell casters. Also agree that Epic Prestige Classes do not need to start at 21st level, though the base classes would naturally start at 21st level.
Psionics is another I would like to see. Currently Psionics seems to me to being divorced from the rest of the game.
Bestiary Creation source book, detailing how to create new creatures, races, etc that get an accurate rating. Also how one can modify existing creatures, not just by adding class levels, by removing/adding/swapping abilities with appropriate decrease/increase/no change in ratings.
Ok, just spent about 3 hours reading all these posts...eyes burning...
Random thoughts.
1) Definitely a rework of the Epic Level Handbook; if I can muster the strength, I'll go read that massive thread.
2) Not sure I want a complete rework of psionics. Of course I'll check out that thread too, but, like many posters here who actually use psionics, I'm quite fond of the EPH. W/ a few tweaks (e.g., Dreamscarred Press' version of the Soulknife), you've got gold.
3) Prestige classes. I'm kind of sick of them. Too many, too poorly balanced, sapped my early enthusiasm. I like the setting-specific ones, which means covered in other product lines, the most.
4) I'm a big fan of alternate magic systems. After 30 years of Vancian magic, I've kind of lost interest. At least give us alternatives to play with w/ good flavor and crunch (Tome of Magic rocked on the 1st, was uneven on the 2nd). Maybe subsumed in an Unearthed Arcana book, which would also cover alternate rules that didn't make it into the final cut.
5) I like Monster Manuals, but don't necessarily need 1/year to be honest. 3e got to the point where there were too many of everything: spells, magic items, feats, classes,...and yes, monsters.
6) My main interest in Paizo products is Golarion-related. I'm not necessarily interested in generic-setting materials beyond the PFRPG rules. Though I understand your need to offer something to people who only use their own worlds or homebrews. So, though my tag should show my Paizo loyalties, I'm not sure I would be up for a subscription to this particular product line.
In July we officially kick off the Pathfinder RPG with the release of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The massive Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook follows in August, but beyond that we have not yet announced additional rules support for the game.
That support IS coming, and we're in the process of finalizing what form it will take.
The current plan is to release between 2-3 hardcover rulebooks per year, including additional Pathfinder Bestiaries.
What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Discuss.
Maybe 2 bestiaries for general monsters, one for dragons, one for outsiders, and some other type. I don't know how different outsiders in all their forms or dragons will be different than WotC dragons so those books may not be needed. I can't really say what I would pay as I have not seen a sample of the monster work yet, but if it is good work I would pay for it. New races and classes is always good. We have a lot of 3.5 options now, but only certain ones get used so it is really as though the ones that don't get used are nonexistent. I don't mind PRC's as long as they are well made. I actually look forward to them. I think they should be designed to focus a character along a certain path. Hexblades as far as classes go have nice fluff, but the mechanics make them not worth playing. The Frenzied Berserker as a PrC is nice to read about, but has to much power. My current group has a gentleman's agreement, but I know I won't always have that luxury and having reasonable classes will save me some time.
As the above poster said a rework of the ELH would be good. I like psionics as they are so it would not matter to me either way if WoTc's are used if you redid them. I have not seen a Dreamscarred Press book, but if it can improve something I like then I am for it.
PS: Fluff in the books should be clearly distinguishable from the actual rules, and getting errata out in less than six months should also be nice.
Off-topic:If you have customer service reps handle rules issues make sure they know the rules. If they are not sure they should feel ok to say so. There is no harm in that. I would rather wait to get a right answer than get a quick and incorrect one.
To be very specific as to what I'd want:
*Ptolus upgraded to Pathfinder edition and inserted into Golarion propper. This'd make my day.
I agree with the suggestions to add more choices to the core classes. How about alternatives to Clerics that can channel energy and Paladins that have to be lawful good? Give the Sorcerer options to become more like a Psychic if they want to or the Fighter choices to be a Knight. Variety is a good thing. People can then play what they want to play.
Skills and Powers (2nd edition) was a great book and really let players and DMs customize their characters. I liked what the 3.5 edition Unearthed Arcana and Players Handbook 2 did alot too. Waiting a bunch of levels to get a prestige class is not nearly as fun as starting out with your character already beginning to get the specific abilities that you are looking for.
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
Imho James, it would be perfect. Epic rules are HORRIBLE, but flavour is NOT. So, let's rebuild them! :)
By the way, your idea of 1st level epic PC is VERY interesting... creating a single epic npc was a DM nightmare.
Psionic rules are quite good instead... I think they shoulg get a minor improvement (in line with what you've done with the core).
I second also mass/naval combat rules, technofantasy and a single traits/feats/spells/prc compendium.
It should also include a new optional systems for magic. Please give us a balanced vancian death! :D
By the way, your idea of 1st level epic PC is VERY interesting... creating a single epic npc was a DM nightmare.
I always found it to be a DM's dream job, but it did take a while.
Psionic rules are quite good instead... I think they shoulg get a minor improvement (in line with what you've done with the core).
Completely agree with you here.
In July we officially kick off the Pathfinder RPG with the release of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The massive Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook follows in August, but beyond that we have not yet announced additional rules support for the game.
That support IS coming, and we're in the process of finalizing what form it will take.
The current plan is to release between 2-3 hardcover rulebooks per year, including additional Pathfinder Bestiaries.
I’m completely happy with that!
What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
$35 sounds reasonable though I’d be willing to pay $10 to 25 more for just two well-done books a year over three or more poorly made ones!
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
Bestiaries: I’ve always been a fan of the Dragon Monster Ecologies Articles, and I wouldn’t mind having fewer monsters in your books if you could give us something more along the lines of what you did with the Classic Monsters Revisited Supplement.
Epic: My Players almost always want to go beyond 20th. The current system definitely needs some fixing, but this isn’t the epic thread so I’ll leave my comment at that for now.
Evil: I’d like to see more options for the bad guys (At least class wise if nothing else.), and yes the occasional evil PC as well.
Psionics: I’m not opposed to using it as long as it’s over powered and additional complication issues are dealt with.
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
New classes: Are great, as long as they’re not adding some kind of huge new complication to the system such as the current Psionics do. Once again, I would like to stress quality over quantity.
New Races: How could you be against this? That’s like saying no new monsters.
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
I’m not against prestige classes, yet it does seem that half of the existing ones would have been better off being stripped down to feats instead (Such as the Archmage.).
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Encounter books for different levels and set in various environments. 2-3 encounters with hooks, monsters, traps, etc., and how they all link up. Designed to be dropped in the current campaign when the DM's exhausted or the players go exploring for parts unknown.
I've seen similar 3PP products; apparently TSR also published something similar for 1e & 2e D&D.
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My first and foremost concern is that the PRPG "Splatbooks" do not receive enough playtesting.
As good as the Paizonians are as Designers, Developers and Editors I believe that external playtesting is essential for well balanced material.
Look at the 3.5 Splatbooks. The WoC Deisgners are/were considered the creme de la creme of RPG but still they messed up Spells, Feats and PRCs (Frenzie Berserker anyone?).
Why?
IMHO these ideas were not playtested enough by external groups.
It needs players who test the new ideas with a lot of Class/Feat/PRC/Spell combinations. It need Power Players trying to break the rules. It needs DMs who see how these ideas effect gaming.
Of course, even after playtesting you can not be sure that an idea is not "broken". But an idea that endures rigid playtesting is much less likely to be broken.
My idea would be that Groups apply for playtesting at Paizo and sign an NDA. There will be a lot of groups who want to test Stuff.
Paizo can then choose to assign groups playtest material.
Not tired of prestige classes themselves, just tired of something that is supposed to be "prestigious" being used as a "level dip" to get some extra power.
QFT. I'd much prefer the flavor-focused "Runelord Scion" prestige class for example as opposed to genera-Prestige Class #102.
Can the first or second book be something like I mentioned a while ago?
Pretty please? A Planet Stories + Pathfinder RPG product would be too cool for school!
The trouble I have with prestige classes is that they generally seem designed for NPCs who don't have to suffer through multiple levels of suck to get to the kewl powerz. They're also not terribly prestigious, since it seems that anybody and their awakened dog can take the prestige class, even if it's something like the one-level dip in Mindbender that no one has any use for afterwards.
Ok...Biggest complaint about all the 3.5 books was how spread out it all was.... Perhaps a Set of Lines of which we could Have one book per year detailing that aspect of the game.... For Instance each year a New monster book, A New Character Book, (Classes Feats and Prestige classes..etc), A Magic Book...(Spells and Items) Then of course campaign support would be independent as would adventures...This way...when one was looking for a new Feat, Monster, Spell, Item...they would only have a few places to look...unlike 3.5 which which could be a real chore....
In July we officially kick off the Pathfinder RPG with the release of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The massive Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook follows in August, but beyond that we have not yet announced additional rules support for the game.
That support IS coming, and we're in the process of finalizing what form it will take.
The current plan is to release between 2-3 hardcover rulebooks per year, including additional Pathfinder Bestiaries.
What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Discuss.
Ok...Biggest complaint about all the 3.5 books was how spread out it all was.... Perhaps a Set of Lines of which we could Have one book per year detailing that aspect of the game.... For Instance each year a New monster book, A New Character Book, (Classes Feats and Prestige classes..etc), A Magic Book...(Spells and Items) Then of course campaign support would be independent as would adventures...This way...when one was looking for a new Feat, Monster, Spell, Item...they would only have a few places to look...unlike 3.5 which which could be a real chore....
That's a really good idea. I've got a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of the contents of my books (I'm usually pretty accurate about where a PrC or feat is), but I do love the Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium, and a book that was a go-to for classes, feats, etc, would be a pretty nice thing to have. Even a per-year thing, knowing that you just need to check this specific line to find feats, classes, and PrCs, rather than five or six different lines, could be pretty cool...
On the other hand, certain mechanics should be included in the source book. Heroes of Battle is a logical place to put feats and PrCs that go with the theme, rather than having them published in an unrelated book, requiring two books for full reference on a subject. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea, actually...
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Ok...Biggest complaint about all the 3.5 books was how spread out it all was.... Perhaps a Set of Lines of which we could Have one book per year detailing that aspect of the game.... For Instance each year a New monster book, A New Character Book, (Classes Feats and Prestige classes..etc), A Magic Book...(Spells and Items) Then of course campaign support would be independent as would adventures...This way...when one was looking for a new Feat, Monster, Spell, Item...they would only have a few places to look...unlike 3.5 which which could be a real chore....That's a really good idea. I've got a pretty encyclopedic knowledge of the contents of my books (I'm usually pretty accurate about where a PrC or feat is), but I do love the Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium, and a book that was a go-to for classes, feats, etc, would be a pretty nice thing to have. Even a per-year thing, knowing that you just need to check this specific line to find feats, classes, and PrCs, rather than five or six different lines, could be pretty cool...
On the other hand, certain mechanics should be included in the source book. Heroes of Battle is a logical place to put feats and PrCs that go with the theme, rather than having them published in an unrelated book, requiring two books for full reference on a subject. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea, actually...
One of the few good ideas that WotC had near the end of the 3rd Edition was the Rules Compendium. So to go along with what Dragonsage47 and Disciple of Sakura said I think it would be best if any books that are released should be about ONE subject at a time In other words a new book of magic items, spells, monsters, character classes/races, addtional (and optional) rules (and what not) each be given a book of their own as opposed to pumping several things into one book. This would make referencing a LOT easier!
That's my two coppers!
One of the few good ideas that WotC had near the end of the 3rd Edition was the Rules Compendium.
The rules compendium was meant to be one stop shop when Wizards was done changing the rules. Basickly, it was meant to be a replacement for the PHB as the goto guide for rules. The PFRPG book is suppose to do that now.
What I'd like to see, once a year, is a free PDF that simply lists New Spells, New Magic Items, PrC, Traits, etc., and where to find 'em :)
I do that for my group currently, typing up or copying the new info and sticking it into a binder so we don't have to flip through the books, especially those that are in APs the players shouldn't be peeking into :)
Like Masika, I am an ozzie so I need things shipped down here and the exchange rate kills me but I have all the completes minus scoundrel.
So I like to get my hands on book but I am not a big fan of modules and that sort.
Anywho to the point.
I need.
Not want but need a complete warriors do not suck.
I have the tome of battle, book of nine swords but i hate it.
Because rather than making warriors (I am just using this to refer to the full base attack bonus classes)
into the ass kicking machines, it was suggesting you know how we fix warriors SPELLS!
Yes that exactly why we need warriors (sorry i know that sarcasm doesn't translate well into text but still)
I need something to make my players say NO I WANT TO PLAY THE WARRIOR!
The only thing that ever got them really existed was the frenzied berserk class with buffs from spells.
I mean he got to +30 strength but i never made verse grease (ie auto fail for build).
Anyway long story short make warriors cool.
I want some balance in my group, the skill monkey generally says ok some of the time I am fantastic but I gets to do all sneaky cool stuff.
Spell slinger says WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo................
have you ever played a mage?
Healer says well I guess I heal.... except for my buff, DID I MENTIONED MY BUFF DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW REDONK MY BUFFS ARE! erhm... I mean I heal people...
and the warrior says
My arrows go pew pew which mean i actually get to use full round attacks for once! just i don't deal that much damage and if anything has damage reduction i lose.
or
I sure hope someone stands still next to me or with in five feet or I get one attack, that's right one.
at +15 bonus.... one....
I know Jason the lead designer in some post said that he was toying with somethings (note the S at the end of the things).
But until I have seen something fighters are still the best class at level 1-3 and then the worst class from then on.
Basically I want to be thinking this as a DM ok how the hell to I keep the fighter away from this Villain.
So long story short.
I would like to see a fighter book. (that doesn't make fighter spell casters)
Some redone second ed campaign setting, dark sun or planescape (ok i know this is not happening)
A Pathfinder Players handbook two for Pathfinder.
(this is most properly going to be another random tangent)
Player handbook two of all of the no core books has to be my favorite, it sells the cool of d&d it really gives new players or some old ones who are have been trying out the bizarre just back to the basic grounding of the game.
It sells every class, gave fantastic new feats, improved combat expertise fantastic, bounding assault phenomenal, and shield ward so inventive.
This made fighters a deadly force.
That's what I want from a book fluff that makes you sit up, and abilities that makes you reach for it when you level up.
end of random tangent
anyway long story short
Complete warriors don't suck.
Pathfinder players handbook two Pazio view on 3.5 classes and quick upgrades (ie not so much that they have to playtest every single class again now that would be painstaking
And some sort of setting book even if it has to become generic and it's not planescape or other it's just steam punk or modern all that jazz that's what i would want.
But I am sorry I will lump you and leave you I am one purchase guy I will by your books and move on sorry.
Im not reading 400 posts.
I'll just say I dont want to see more than 4 rulebooks a year. Rules bloat is a big problem.
Maybe a monster book a year and 3 other splat books.
Id love to see Psionics, Epic, Spell COmpendiums and books similar to "Complete..." but I prefer a book of prestige classes, a book of magic items, a book of spells and so on intead fo a little bit of everything in each book.
Oh and a modern book would be cool.
Would love to see a Spelljammer like ruleset, but that's just me.
A pre constructed foes group also sounds very appeling to me.
Something where you have mooks, elites, mid boss(es), captain and boss for each foe section would be great.
Something where when on a random tangent my players say well were going to do this i can go.
I have the stat blocks for those...
What I'd like to see, once a year, is a free PDF that simply lists New Spells, New Magic Items, PrC, Traits, etc., and where to find 'em :)
I do that for my group currently, typing up or copying the new info and sticking it into a binder so we don't have to flip through the books, especially those that are in APs the players shouldn't be peeking into :)
I'm currently working on a master index that will eventually have a list of all: spells, races, classes, PrC, feats, magic items and monsters and where to find them. Sadly, I should have started this project several years ago, now I have over 150 books to go through.
It's going to take a while.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Haven't been here in a while.
I like 2-4 unique books a year, and can stay with that rate as long as you keep up the quality.
I would be most interested in more monsters, an epic book, a good and evil book, a combat options book (including rules for naval combat, 3-D underwater combat, rules for getting mobbed by creatures below your CR, mass battlefield resolution, martial and magical duesl, etc.) and book with expanded class features and new classes.
I love prestige classes. I agree that a lot of mediocre classes got thrown out in 3.5 to meet a demand for PrCs that ignored the richness of riding basic classes up, but well-conceived PrC classes are one of the most fun things in the game, and as long as they continue to meet mechanical needs, have great flavor, and don't invent new, poorly conceived, mechanics (I'm looking at you, Pacifist Priests and Silver Flame Cheesemongers), I think prestige classes can still be a common staple of every new book.
Obviously, an oriental settng, or any fleshing out of the lands beyond the current Golarion Setting is a great idea. While I love the L5R setting immensely (my first Pathfinder campaign starts in a few weeks and is set in Rokugan), it is always good to have an alternative, and it might be a good time for a fresh look at an OA setting.
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I would like everything on Steve's list except the "Book of Stereotypical Evil" and "Book of Cliched Good", to use the WotC analogue.
If there were such books for Paizo, I'd like a lot more nuance and gray area. The problem a lot of groups seem to have with evil PCs is they automatically seem to think "psychopath", and the problem a lot have with paladins is the "goody two shoes intolerant douche bag" syndrome.
I've had evil PCs in my game right along side the good ones, but the evil PCs were much more subtle than "sacrifice virgins, rape, pillage and generally be completely destructive". They were more of the "behind the scenes manipulation and conspiracy, all for the love of money and power" types, and the paladins were more like the inspiration for the class, he lead in "Three Hearts and Three Lions", by Poul Anderson, that is, good, but human and fallable.
Considering my experience thus far (Nick Logue's horror movie romps excepted, and they were tone perfect in describing an aspect of evil rarely explored before in the D&D multiverse), I think Paizo is more than capable of giving us an analogue to the WotC attempts that are much less cliche, and are much more "what's really in the hearts of the sides of the spectrum".
And, why not a book about Law and Chaos, the unfortunate red headed step-children of the alignment spectrum?
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I would like everything on Steve's list except the "Book of Stereotypical Evil" and "Book of Cliched Good", to use the WotC analogue.
And, why not a book about Law and Chaos, the unfortunate red headed step-children of the alignment spectrum?
As it turns out, order and Chaos might be the only alignments stressed when Shane and I run our mega-event at Gen Con this year. Don't forget to look for it!
I agree with much of Derek's point - while I LOVE LOVE LOVE alignments, and think of Good vs Evil as the pinnacle of great adventuring, I do long to have the grey areas fleshed out. I was a big fan of the Complete Scoundrel book and really like concepts like the Malconvoker or the grey paladin dude. For the same reasons, I'm attracted to the low templar in the PF Campaign Setting. Folks who could stand for good, but sure think they have every reason not to.
So, while I really want cool things like new (better) rules for an evil language, new and unique servants of bad gods, prestige classes devoted to wickedness, and such (and I want unique, fun stuff for the heroes, too), I also don't want it to be lame cliches, nor do I want the good guys whining that they can't use poison or inflict disease, and end up getting golden ice or afflictions. Dumb.
So, books on chaos and order for sure. And the good and evil books should be mechanically fascinating, working virtue and sin (or even vice versa) into the mechanics and adding to great storytelling.
Of course, from Paizo, I expect nothing less than the best thing going.
And..you know...I could help...design...
1. Oriental Adventures-style sourcebook. This should be loaded with setting-neutral crunch. Loads of base classes, feats, prestige classes and spells all with a decidely oriental basis. Specifically, as a student of the martial arts myself, I'd love to see a whole section devoted to different martial art styles that allowed a monk to diversify themselves much more than is allowed in the bland core rulebook (beta rules).
I'd disagree with the need to load it down with new base classes. Even in the PF beta you can find good parallels for adapting the existing base classes to match up with 'oriental' flavored ones. This is where replacement class features (such as those that showed up in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting book) would be much better.
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I'd disagree with the need to load it down with new base classes. Even in the PF beta you can find good parallels for adapting the existing base classes to match up with 'oriental' flavored ones. This is where replacement class features (such as those that showed up in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting book) would be much better.
Thank you, that's what i was saying upthread about 5 pages ago and no one caught it.
Fighter=Samurai with some alternate class features
Rogue= Ninja with some alternate class features
Wizard= Wu-jen
Cleric= Shugenja
monk=monk
Barbarian= Barbarian (think the mongol hordes type barbarians.)
etc. etc. (I would go on but I don't know that much about asain culture so it gets harder and harder to name eastern themed versions of classes like paladin and ranger for all I know they have no alternates in asian culture)
We don't need whole new base classes that are mirrors to the existing ones, just provide eastern themed alternate options for the classes that replace existing class features and go from there.
I'd disagree with the need to load it down with new base classes. Even in the PF beta you can find good parallels for adapting the existing base classes to match up with 'oriental' flavored ones. This is where replacement class features (such as those that showed up in the Pathfinder Chronicles setting book) would be much better.Thank you, that's what i was saying upthread about 5 pages ago and no one caught it.
Fighter=Samurai with some alternate class features
Rogue= Ninja with some alternate class features
Wizard= Wu-jen
Cleric= Shugenja
monk=monk
Barbarian= Barbarian (think the mongol hordes type barbarians.)
etc. etc. (I would go on but I don't know that much about asain culture so it gets harder and harder to name eastern themed versions of classes like paladin and ranger for all I know they have no alternates in asian culture)
We don't need whole new base classes that are mirrors to the existing ones, just provide eastern themed alternate options for the classes that replace existing class features and go from there.
spot on right there. Its d20 it's modular as hell . no need for a new class just replace the features
I fo one would buy that in an instant. New classes I do not need
I personally disagree, but that's because my idea of a proper samurai or ninja should have ki powers and the like. The ninja should have a whole host of abilities like invisibility, substitution, ki-enchanced climbing and jumping skills, ect. In fact I'd rather use the oriental classes if they had such abilities, than the eastern ones.
I can't remember in which dragon but they were the first to do ninja also they were the first to address the fact that it was limited to a Air/wind ninja.
And in another they have rules for earth fire and water though I never really got that i mean the chinese believe in five elements and air is missing from there chart.
They have Water, Metal, Earth, Wood and Fire.
Anyway enough of random tangent.
I think more base classes would be great.
You can make a fighter rogue and call it a swashbuckler all you want but it doesn't mean it feels right.
You can do any combination of base classes to make them feel like it.
But I love some of the class that are not cover in this new pathfinder.
I would love to see the pathfinder knight, swashbuckler and scout.
I'll admit that there is alot that make me want to hurl my guts out like the hexblade and Shugenja.
But i would love to see some new things like a revamped shaman from 2ed where they get powers from spirts not unlike the binder but less scary more nature/anciestor orinated.
Plus with pazio on the job there will be less hit and miss cases more soild classes that is if they decide to do.
Imagine a marshal class that doesn't suck...
I can dream right.
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I personally disagree, but that's because my idea of a proper samurai or ninja should have ki powers and the like. The ninja should have a whole host of abilities like invisibility, substitution, ki-enchanced climbing and jumping skills, ect. In fact I'd rather use the oriental classes if they had such abilities, than the eastern ones.
Right and that can be done with a bunch of add in rouge talents and a few substitution abilities like say loose trapfinding or have a reduced sneak attack progression to gain a Ki pool. I could mock up a bunch of them right now that you would look at and say "yup that screams ninja" without actually making a ninja base class. New classes should be for new concepts I'm sorry but nothing about ninja folklore screams that it can't be done within the given rogue class easily. at least none in my limited asian knowledge.