Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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In July we officially kick off the Pathfinder RPG with the release of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The massive Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook follows in August, but beyond that we have not yet announced additional rules support for the game.
That support IS coming, and we're in the process of finalizing what form it will take.
The current plan is to release between 2-3 hardcover rulebooks per year, including additional Pathfinder Bestiaries.
What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Discuss.
I would love the books that cover new classes base and prestige as well as races with Spells and feats that go with them
Beastiary books are great at least one a year
and I would def be in for a Subscription with PDFs at 35 each
If you all did not do more than, oh, say 6 books a year, then I would subscribe. My main concern is that having an additional subscription would put too much of a strain on the people that are having a hard time keep up with everything as it is.
What kind of books I would want?
-Psionics
-Monster books
-Epic rules
-Something along the lines of the Complete books by WotC
-Expanded info books on Golarian
-Anything else that you all can come up with.
If I subscribe, I would also want the PDF as well. ~shrugs~ If that is no problem, that is.
P.S. - $35 per book sounds good, but please stress to everyone that the price is an AVERAGE. Some things may be more expensive. I would not object to going as high as $60, but the content would have to be worth the price.
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If you all did not do more than, oh, say 6 books a year, then I would subscribe. My main concern is that having an additional subscription would put too much of a strain on the people that are having a hard time keep up with everything as it is.
What kind of books I would want?
-Psionics
-Monster books
-Epic rules
-Something along the lines of the Complete books by WotC
-Expanded info books on Golarian
-Anything else that you all can come up with.If I subscribe, I would also want the PDF as well. ~shrugs~ If that is no problem, that is.
P.S. - $35 per book sounds good, but please stress to everyone that the price is an AVERAGE. Some things may be more expensive. I would not object to going as high as $60, but the content would have to be worth the price.
::Joins in the opinion, though emphasizes the need for a Paizo take on Epic rules::
At this point there is no way we could handle 6 of these a year.
Sorry, guys!
I believe what he was saying was as long as you didn't do more than six per year he would subscribe. Not that he wanted six books per year before he would.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I'd love to see the psionics book, and I'd love to see the Revisited line continue, maybe expanded as a Monstrous Compendium sort of thing. Revised monster plus new stats and maybe related creatures.
I'd also like to see a PHB2 sort of thing with a new batch of classes, but no more than that. Too many makes for bloat and unhappy DMs.
I'd love to see prestige classes presented in the context of fluff for Golarion. I like the PrCs, but I'd rather they lived organically in a world than as a simple rules fixture.
An item book, possibly collecting the best of the RPG Superstar items would be nice. As would support for the epic tiers of play. Nothing much more than a supplement.
Also, the Beta book is a great example of good binding without being too fancy or expensive. I'd totally buy more like that.
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I believe what he was saying was as long as you didn't do more than six per year he would subscribe. Not that he wanted six books per year before he would.At this point there is no way we could handle 6 of these a year.
Sorry, guys!
That's the same interpretation I got out of Shaorth's statement. More than six would be a problem. Two-four sounds about right.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
Most likely, provided that you continue to provide a free pdf with such a subscription. The only thing that keeps me from saying "yes" is that I play 4e and thus core rule books aren't really in my particular sweet spot. That being said, I've got such a glorious collection of Pathfinder books, the completionist in me insists that I purchase them all.
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
I would like you to do class books ala Sword and Fist or the Complete Fighter's Handbook from 2e. But, I don't want a buttload of feats and prestige classes. I want design information. I want variant fighter options and abilities (not new sucky base classes). I want thoughts on how to design good classes that are like the fighter. I want to know how the fighter works best in the game, how to play the fighter most effectively, and what type of player likes fighters the best. I want fighters that are tailored to the player races and some of the applicable monsters. I want a mini-campaign in the last chapter that gives me a garrison for my all-fighter campaign set in Absalom with a handful of adventure seeds, and a few NPCs (friendly and not-so-friendly). I want to know if an all-fighter campaign is even possible. And if you absolutely must, I will accept a small small small handful of feats and prestige classes - but no filler. I only want stuff that is so awesome, I need my Paizo Fighter Handbook. As a litmus test, if the feat is "you get +2 on two skills" it is filler and should be cut.
Then I want the above for rogues, wizards, druids, etc. I want a single definitive book for each class and I want it to be made of pure 100% awesome.
Think: the Thieves Handbook or Fighters Handbook from 2e, each of which set the bar for what a class book should be (and which, sadly, none of the WotC 3e books managed to achieve).
Plus, the class based books feed right into my gotta-have-em-all mentality, and are much more likely to be purchased irrespective of my rules set preferences.
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Rules bloat is a theoretical problem, but let's call a spade a spade. You're launching a new edition of D&D and it should be supported like a new edition of D&D. My understanding is that the class-based books were the bread and butter of 2e. I'm not sure if that held true for 3e, but I find it likely given that Mongoose (I think) pratically carved out a niche making such books. But take the kids gloves off and treat us like the gaming developers/designers we all strive to be. Don't give me a book of fish, give me a book of fish and fishing techniques, much more like the 2e Thieves Handbook and much less like the 3.5 Complete Books.
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
More so.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Another vote for Epic rules. If there's one company that can do them right, it's Paizo!
Also, since it is going on right now, I'd love to see a magic item book from the RPG Superstar contest.
New classes and races would be great. I'll throw my vote in for something similar to Wizards' Complete series. I have no problems with prestige classes, and I can definitely see more prestige classes tied to various regions in the Pathfinder world.
I'd definitely sign up for a subscription, at almost any cost. OK--within reason.
It's pretty cool that you're soliciting input from folks on the message board. Thanks!
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What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
Not I, but I lost my job for Christmas, so I'm not the target audience for a subscription-based model at the moment.
Then again, I normally pick and choose my purchases, so a subscription model isn't really my cup of tea anyway.
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
The Forgotten Realms / Eberron model seems to be regional source books, with local 'crunch' (PrCs, races, spells, feats, etc.) included.
The 3.5 model was more in the lines of class-related books, or more general terrain types. I prefer that model, books that are generally useful, instead of narrow detailings of specific regions.
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Options are good, and while I personally don't like Prestige Classes, I do acknowledge that I'm in the minority. I also knee-jerk react against new humanoid races, as I would *MUCH* rather see imaginative new flavor added to older races (or sub-species, such as arctic goblins or sea elves, instead of a bunch of new humanoid races).
What I would like to see is for multiple options to be presented with each concept. If there are going to be Hellknights in the game, for example, I would prefer to see it available as a PrC (for those who like them) *and* as some sort of feat chain or series of Alternate Class features that a core class Blackguard or whatever can take, so that there is not just 'one true way' to be a Hellknight.
I'm schizophrenic about more core classes. On the one hand, sometimes a new core class like the Beguiler, Warlock, Archivist, Dread Necromancer or Duskblade can be incredibly inspiring. On the other hand, there are days when I would prefer for the Monk, Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian to just be reduced to a series of Feats that a Fighter could take. I cancel myself out in some sort of matter/anti-matter reaction on this point.
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What form would you like these books to take?
I am glad you asked! I didn't like the aproach that the official 3.x supplements took-- every book had a little bit of everything. Feats. Classes. Prestige Classes. Spells. Monsters. Etc. I would love it if PFRPG books were instead devoted to a particular aspect. A book of feats. A book of spells. Etc. That said, I wouldn't mind the everything-method if it were centered tightly around a theme. For example, an asian-themed player's guide.
Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
Yes.
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
Let me mull that one over and get back to you.
We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
I like them. A lot! Just make sure that the classes are thoroughly playtested and the races have interesting flavor.
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Heavens yes I am! I don't mind an occasional new one if it's good, but prestige classses should only be published if the creators truly believe in it.
Erik, thank you for asking. :) I predict this will be a long thread.
I agree that 2-4 per year would be ideal. My main concern is that all of the rules, especially Prestige Classes, are balanced with existing material. The only thing worse that rules bloat is power creep.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I think 2 hardcovers a year would be perfect - a beastiary and one "other" book. I'd prefer the "other" category to be books that were tightly themed, though I know this could mean worse sales than a mix of different content similar to a PH2, PH3, etc. style, since if the theme for a book isn't well received, it won't sell as well. Comparitively, a mix of content should have something to apeal to everyone.
However, from a customer's point of view, I'd rather have the theme books, since a) I could pick and choose what to buy, and b) once you buy one, you should have a good tool set of options to use with the new content, instead of just a hint of any particular topic.
As to what content I'd like, I'd love to see:
Psionics
Alternate systems, similar to the tome of magic hardcover with the binding, truename magic, and shadow magic alternate magic systems
Cultural themed books a la Oriental Adventures
I'd probably not subscribe, for two reasons. First, I get about half of my gaming product as gifts for the holidays and my birthday, so I tend not to buy much after Gen Con so that there's good stuff to look forward to under the tree at the end of the year. Second, not every item is necessarily one I'd want (while there are only a few I don't want, that's enough for me not to subscribe, and instead pick and choose). $35 would be a great price though, I would have guessed $40 (though with pathfinder advantage or subscription, $35 could be the discounted price).
New classes would be good, as long as they're not created just to be new, and not too often. In my above examples, new classes would make sense in all of those books, psionic classes for a psionic book, etc. I wouldn't want new classes though that weren't needed, such as the swashbuckler or spell thief. These in my mind are more along the lines of picking the right feats (possibly new ones) and prestige class than a whole new class.
I'd also like new races if they filled an interesting new niche. Medium and small humanoids are pretty well done at this point. I don't need a book that has a catperson, dogperson, parrotperson, tundra elf, desert elf, jungle elf, etc. Balanced new races that were size tiny or large, had an interesting new mechanic (somewhat like an eberron shifter), or in some other way added something new would be great though.
As for prestige classes, I do like them, but agree that in 8 years of 3.X, there wound up being way to many of them. That being said, however, with PRPG, there's only a small number that will be available at first, so I'd like to see one of the earlier products have a lot of prestige class options. I prefer prestige classes in a general game book to either fill an archtype that isn't quite covered by the core classes (swashbuckler or (dwarven) defender are good examples), or be narrowly focused, such as a sniper (don't need more than 1 of these though) or an abjuration specialist arcane caster (like initiate of the seven veils - though that was probably too good overall.) I'd rather have prestige classes that were tightly tied to a specific organization or location be in a pathfinder campaign product instead, like a Hellknight, or Sable Company Marine, and keep the line of PRPG product prestige classes more generic and easy to adapt to any campaign with little or no changes or shoehorning.
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I'd love to see epic rules that actually work without changing the fundamentals of the game.
I'd love to see a book like Tome of Magic that introduces variant types of spellcasters that reek of flavor but are also powerful (one of the bad things about ToM is that the classes were all fairly 'meh' power wise even if they had amazing flavor to 'em).
I'd love to see a book like Unearthed Arcana full to the brim with house rules and variant rules that you guys use in your games.
I'd love to see source books in a similar vein to the Frostburn, Sandstorm, and Stormwrack series of books but dealing with other locales (I would love you guys forever -well, moreso than I already do- if you put out a jungle sourcebook).
I'd freakin' flip out (in happiness) if you guys put out sourcebooks for each major type of monster (or perhaps hit two or three types to a book?) full of nifty beasties and oodles of delicious design information pertaining to the beasts located therein.
As for prestige classes... I'd much rather variant class features than prestige classes. We have a ton of nifty prestige classes but not nearly enough variant classes (which I assume would be easier to design than PrCs would be).
Anyways... Yeah. I'd probably sign right up to a subscription feature like this.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Support IS coming, and we're in the process of finalizing what form it will take.
1. The current plan is to release between 2-3 hardcover rulebooks per year, including additional Pathfinder Bestiaries.
2. What form would you like these books to take? Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
3. What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
4. We're all worried about rules bloat. What is your opinion of new classes and races?
5. Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
1. Two Books is good. Three would be fine. No more than four though. One a Quarter.
Core Rulebook at GenCon. Option Book before Christmas. Bestiary afound February. Option Book around May. This would be an acceptable format.2. I think a Core Rules II and Bestiary II would be the the best solution. Then the following year it would be Core Rules III and Bestiary III, etc...
This would give some consistency to the Rulebooks being published. They would follow the same format as the original Core Rulebook/Bestiary so as to maintin the afore mentioned consistency.
Each Core Rulebook would contain new Races, new Bace Classes, new Prestige Classes, new Skill Options, new Feats, new or expanded Rules, new Spells, new Magic Items.
Each Bestiary would simply expand on available Monsters and give new details for utilizing Monsters.
In regards to a third book, I think maybe an Options Book, something similar to Unearthed Arcana/Book of Experimental Might would be a good idea. That way people who are dissatisfied with how Pathfinder works because the rule they liked wasn't included can be still useful.
Yes I would Subscribe (even though it would seriously stretch the budget to breaking point, I figure I am going to be getting them anyway, might as well get some benefit for Subscribing).
3. Psionics should definately be covered in an Options Books, possibly having a whole book to itself.
Epic Rules in the other big thing that should be included in one of these books as well.
Other things that can be explored in Options Books are:
Modern Rules
Oriental Rules.
African Rules.
Alternate Class Features to better customize Existing Base Classes. If you're going to do this though, I would like a list for each Class, not just one (or two) like in PHB II.
4. I would Love to see new Classes and Races, but obviously don't want the Rules Bloat you're referring to.
I think in terms of Base Classes, in each Core Rulebook you could include one new Base Class for each of the four Core Archetypes: Fighter, Arcane Caster, Divine Caster and Utility.
In terms of Races, obviously there are quite afew that people would like to see updated, so maybe something along the lines of half a dozen new Races and/or Archetypes.
Tieflings, Aasimar and other Planetouched (Genaasi equivalent) Races are top of this list. A Core Flyer is another I'd like to see. Goblinoids and other Humanoid Monsters are a possiblity and something I'd like to see, but maybe in the Options Rulebook.
5. No, I like Prestige Classes.
I think that Wizards overdid it quite a bit with 20-30 in each Splat book however. The Prestige Classes should be limited to maybe 2-3 new options for each Core Class Archetype, giving between 8-12 in each Core Rulebook. These new PrC's should be Setting Neutral to fit in with the theme of the PFRPG. New "Setting Specific" PrC's can be introduced in the various other Pathfinder Accessories (Chronicles/Companion/AP/etc...).
EDIT:
Also I believe I would be interesting in subscribing, depending on how much it would cost per year and a few other factors like "what does this new book add to the other similar books I have".
The first things to come to mind when thinking of what books I would like to see would be:
Oriental (I'm not sure if this would go in this line, or one of the other lines in a book detailing Tian Xia)
Book with information on using monsters as player races
Psionics (possibly, depending on how it compares with Expanded Psionic Handbook)
I, in general, like prestige classes. However, I just have so many right now among my books, I'm not sure if I could say I want another book with several new prestige classes. A few more to cover some things that prestige classes are best used for, but not ten to twenty prestige classes covering so many things.
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I, too, am concerned about rules bloat. I understand that Paizo must sell to maintain prosperity, but my commitment to purchases of rules will probably be limited.
Asian-style (or even other alternative settings)? Definitely.
Psionics? Definitely.
d20 Modern ala Pathfinder? MOST Definitely.
Addtional Bestiaries? maybe.
Here's another idea. You state that you're tired of Prestige Classes. As long as I have a clear idea on how to translate 3.5 PrCs to Pathfinder, I concur. I'd also add to the list feats, spells, and magic items. (Note that I purposefully exclude races from this list of glut.)
What I really want to see is alternative builds for standard classes. How about a book on new Special Abilities and Special Qualities for all the standard classes? I'd be up for that.
I'm with Sebastian (shiver) - much as I dislike prestige classes, better them than a multitude of new base classes. Best option: Class variants, that can't be stacked on the original class. Call them subclasses like 1st edition if you like.
Books: I'd prefer closer to 2 per year than 3. We already get a good deal of rules support in the Chronicles, Companion, and Adventure lines. Here would be my dream schedule.
July/August 2009: Bestiary and RPG
Early 2010: Pathfinder Bestiary II: Coming Home to Roost (SRD stuff that got missed, + the best stuff from Pathfinder APs 1-4 updated).
Sometime 2010: Something to show off your mad skills. And Sebastian is right, keep it trim - I'd rather pay $30 for a 128 page book that is pure quality than $35 for a 256 page book of full of fluff and brokenness.
GenCon 2010: The Path of Psionics
Early 2011: Unearthed Arcana style book (1st edition preferred, 3rd edition also good).
GenCon 2011: The Epic Path - that'll be 4 years since I stopped my epic game to play Pathfinder - we're going to be ITCHING for it.
Early 2012: Pathfinder Bestiary III
Edit: When it comes to Prestige Classes in Rules Supplements, keep them generic and useful, like the SRD ones (except any new "Pathfinder XXX" classes of course). Save the godly ones, and the cultural ones, for Chronicles, Companion, and Adventures lines.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Just to elaborate a little more, I think the way to avoid rules bloat is to provide books that are better tools and less catalogues of cool stuff. There's a ton of cool stuff out there, but much less in the way of design guidelines or behind the scenes explanations of how to do stuff.
I also would love to see a book explaining how an adventure path is designed. What's the process for generating ideas, what are some considerations in designing cool climaxes and bosses, statting up new monsters, making a single monster survive long enough to challenge the party, how to tailor particular adventures in the path to fit the abilities of certain classes/races, etc. Something very practical and concrete, not at a high level and abstract ala dungeoncraft. Ideally, such a book would dissect an existing adventure path.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Thanks for all of the replies so far!
Just to make one thing clear, here, I'm talking about a PATHFINDER RPG line.
Like the Core Rulebook, the default assumption is that we are providing rules, and we may use some Golarion stuff as examples, but these ARE NOT Golarion sourcebooks.
For that sort of thing, I direct you to our monthly PATHFINDER CHRONICLES line.
I agree with Sebastian in that I'd like to see more meta-rules. How to design your OWN Prestige Classes, for instance. How to balance the creation of new spells, new feats, etc.
Just to elaborate a little more, I think the way to avoid rules bloat is to provide books that are better tools and less catalogues of cool stuff. There's a ton of cool stuff out there, but much less in the way of design guidelines or behind the scenes explanations of how to do stuff.
I also would love to see a book explaining how an adventure path is designed. What's the process for generating ideas, what are some considerations in designing cool climaxes and bosses, statting up new monsters, making a single monster survive long enough to challenge the party, how to tailor particular adventures in the path to fit the abilities of certain classes/races, etc. Something very practical and concrete, not at a high level and abstract ala dungeoncraft. Ideally, such a book would dissect an existing adventure path.
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It would be nice to get a shipping deal if you a superscriber and this.
A 35 USD with weight postage no doubt will come towards 85AUD.
I would be in, particularly if you had your bestiary as a separate line. I am unsure of PFRPG atm. I spent a bit on 3.5 getting all WotC books so I am banking on PFRPG conversion to 3.5 than making my old stuff incompatible.
I hope you still will work on conversions from PFRPG to OGL (3.5).
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[3. Psionics could definately be covered in an Options Books, possibly having a whole book to itself.
Epic Rules in another thing that can...
Do not... I repeat DO NOT include psionics as an addon later. WotC Psionics killed 3.5 for me for a time. They were not well done and can really spoil a game particularly if your players are mechanical table toppers.
If psionics are to be part of the PFRPG do it with the core books and get a solid basis.
My preference no psionics please.
I'd love to see a book containing the best of the first two RPG superstar's wonderous items :)
I dont want a lot more rules, I generally dont like prestige classes and while I think there were a few good base classes many were too close to the base classes that already exist- I liked the warlock, and some of the stuff in the PHB2 because they were not just variant barbarians or variant druids. I would be happy to get a reasonable fighter/magic user, rogue/magic user and magic user/cleric.
I look at what I use now....
1.I like monster books but 1 every couple of years would be enough. (especially given the pathfinder bestiary at the back of the adventure path) WOTC overdid it.
2.I like spell compendiums and magic item compendiums but again, no more than 1 of these every few of years.-- I want to be able to absorb them into my games.
I dont want a book for every class, every mundane terrain, or every race.
I think an adventuring underwater book and an adventuring in the clouds book would be different enough to be fun (PC races, special rules, special spells)- but not adventuring where it is hot, or where it is cold. (I thought the Into the Darklands book was brilliantly evocative).
-- the truth is I mostly want what you are already giving me campaign/dungeon stuff-- I have most of the rules I need.
I would love a workable economics system for the fantasy rpg ( so players can settle down, have mundane lives within the world as well as being adventurers, become merchants, trade etc without it being a hand wavebut I know that is a pipe dream.
I would 100% rather get 1 good book every 4 years than 1 book every year each with about 1/4 dumb stuff, 1/2 boring stuff, and 1/4 good stuff. It got to the stage with some of the books that were coming out that my friends and I would ask when someone turned up with a new rulebook "how many pages are worthwhile?"-- 20+ was a good result. It was pretty disheartening to feel like you were being taken advantage of due to game loyalty. I am not talking about Paizo stuff and I know you have your income stream through the adventure stuff so dont need to push lame rules for cash-- but I am just saying how it felt. I liked the AD&D days - what was it? 3 core rulebooks then about another 4 in 10 years?
I don't need a whole lot of new rulebooks besides an annual bestiary, but I would appreciate a psionics book and an Oriental Adventures...maybe an Arabian book too though its less essential.
Other than psionics, I don't feel the need for any other sorts of alternate magic/combat systems in the vein of Tome of Magic or Bo9S. Likewise, I'm not particularly interested in another round of splat books for the classes, and races (though I am all for PF Chronicles books with fluff on the races in Golarion). If there are to be splats, I'd say four books should be plenty tp cover the four major class groupings; any more than that and ideas start to run pretty thin.
A spell compilation down the line is fine but I'd rather see it when there are enough spells out there to warrant compiling them rather than writing up new spells just to have a book to sell it.
Mostly you guys seem to have the right focus already in terms of what warrants attention (adventures first, world development second, rules third) so as long as you don't radically change direction I'll probably be pretty cool with what you're doing.
Thanks for asking.
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Just to elaborate a little more, I think the way to avoid rules bloat is to provide books that are better tools and less catalogues of cool stuff. There's a ton of cool stuff out there, but much less in the way of design guidelines or behind the scenes explanations of how to do stuff.
I also would love to see a book explaining how an adventure path is designed. What's the process for generating ideas, what are some considerations in designing cool climaxes and bosses, statting up new monsters, making a single monster survive long enough to challenge the party, how to tailor particular adventures in the path to fit the abilities of certain classes/races, etc. Something very practical and concrete, not at a high level and abstract ala dungeoncraft. Ideally, such a book would dissect an existing adventure path.
I couldn't agree more. I would find a way to purchase books of this nature. I couldn't care less for one more splat book full of another 12 useless PRC's and 50 feats I wont ever use or even care about. Options for PC's heck I have a book shelf full of them and a computer clogged with PDF's.
Werecorpse, looks like you beat me to the punch with basically the same opinion.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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In July we officially kick off the Pathfinder RPG with the release of the Pathfinder Bestiary. The massive Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook follows in August, but beyond that we have not yet announced additional rules support for the game.
With your clarification, I'd like to see a bestiatry a year. What I'd like to see in it is a mix of SRD monsters that didn't make it into the first bestiary, some 'best of' monsters to add and update from 3PP and some new monsters.
For the Second book, how about a mechanic book? For example a Psionics tome, taking the SRD psionics and giving them a facelift. For that task, I STRONGLY endorse looking to Dreamscarred Press for freelance talent. Any mechanic book needs to feed back to the core book though. Which means feats, spells, prestige classes that are takable by core classes with little effort.
Because of compatibility (and because I know we are a minority) I agree a good epic book should come before the psionic book.
As for classes, give me more options. Unearthed Arcana's classes section works in large part because it's so brief. I'd pay for a 'book of brains' that has the cloistered cleric, a rogue that has more skill tricks instead of sneak attack, paladin scholars, etc. Or a book of brawn that has battlesorcerers warmages, thugs, and, um, I don't know how you make a fighter brawnier. Such books could have rules for something matching organization wise. A library and rules for research for brain, an arena and rules for running fight clubs for brawn for example.
Prestige classes, keep for the campaign setting. Maybe a GM guide on how to make prestige classes, with some generic examples but prestige classes should belong to Organizations. And organizations should be more campaign specific.
Races? A Savage Species type book sounds popular, and I'd buy it. But once it's out, then you can take the time to dedicate a page or four in subsequent monster books to putting the 'monster classes' in there.
Definitely time the Rules books to match the Campaign setting though. When the psionic book comes out, I want to know I get my green planet gazetteer in a month or two. Let the book of brawn match the release of the red planet, and put appropriate monsters in the monster book. i don't expect a 'psionic bestiary' to come out when the psionic book comes out, but I would like to see a couple monsters in the book that use the new rules, a psi module, etc. One or two monsters out of 20 shouldn't ruin the book for psi-haters.
Ok, that's a long ramble, but yes I'm going to subscribe, and yes, I'm going to hope for the PDF as well :-)
Werecorpse, looks like you beat me to the punch with basically the same opinion.
Let me just say 3ed rejuvenated my several groups interest in D&D.
The Paizo quality of adventures has done the same. This is the gold for me.
I have been playing fighters, paladins, rangers, wizards (I like sorcerers too), rogues, bards and even monks (still dont like barbarians) for nearly 30 years-- and when someone in my group told me he was going to be starting CoCt in the near future I had about 3 character ideas fighting for space in my head. ( I dont think the george of the jungle style druid will fit the campaign though)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Thanks for all of the replies so far!
Just to make one thing clear, here, I'm talking about a PATHFINDER RPG line.
Like the Core Rulebook, the default assumption is that we are providing rules, and we may use some Golarion stuff as examples, but these ARE NOT Golarion sourcebooks.
For that sort of thing, I direct you to our monthly PATHFINDER CHRONICLES line.
To take that even a step further, we intend for every book in the Pathfinder RPG line to be completely usable in any setting, be it our Pathfinder Chronicles setting, something published by a third party, or your own homebrew. We're talking about the rules frameworks on which those settings will rest.
(That's not to say that monsters that were created for the Pathfinder Chronicles won't find their way into our bestiaries, but where they do, they'll be ones that would fit nicely into in most fantasy RPG settings.)
My 2 cents as a relatively new Pathfinder discoverer...
I will almost certainly subscribe if possible - I'd even do so sight unseen at this stage, given Paizo's track record of quality. (Although I daresay if it was more than $40 per month I might have to revisit that pledge...)
Having said that, one of my big gripes with 3.5 was the large number of extra rulebooks. My preference would be for no more than 4 new rulebooks per year.
In terms of whatI want included - I would be looking for monster supplements (unfortunately, I missed getting a copy, but from what I hear things along the lines of Classic Monsters Revisited would be ideal).
In terms of crunchy rulebooks, I think you should concentrate on areas not covered very well by the core rules (like psionics, oriental adventures, etcetera). Personally, it bugs me when game designers put out a rulebook, then 6 months later produce a whole new rulebook on magic or some other subsystem which makes the core stuff, if not obsolete, often weaker than all the new gizmos.
EDIT: Forgot to say - I dont like rules bloat in general. I'd rather have a sleek ruleset with lots of setting supplements or adventures. I personally wouldnt want extra classes and find prestige classes silly unless they are strongly tied to a setting. I can see an argument for new races, although personally again, they're not my cup-of-tea. I like my fantasy to be pure Tolkienesque with a dash of Feist.
What form would you like these books to take?
This is something I'm not too interested in, having a huge load of D20 books already - the main appeal of Pathfinder was to keep using all of them.
That said, the thing that'll win me over on these books is the organization. Like Sebastian, above, a book that focuses on one class (lumping them together is not good - does the ranger go with the fighter or the druid? W(here)TF does the monk go?) in the style of the 2nd. ed books would be much more interesting.
Alternate options for that one class, extra information on that class, and tips on running that class, from both sides of the screen would be 100x better than *more* feats and *more* PrC. Remember those sections in the AD&D wizard book telling you how adjudicate spells in unusual conditions? And advice on how to run a campaign with nothing but wizards as PCs? That's the sort of thing that would be most welcome (speaking for me and my group).
Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
Not until I'm sold on the line containing what I want to see. It's a possibility though.
What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
There has been some discussion above about Psionics. A new psionics book would be most welcome as long as it is using the XPH as a base. Psionics is a bit of a niche market, there are plenty of DMs who are like "Not at my table!", and it's probably going to stay that way until they make their way into a core PHB. There are a lot of fans of the XPH and moving away from that risks splitting an already small market.
Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Possibly more so!
One final thing I'd like to see, and can't resist adding, is some historical setting books - again like the old AD&D Vikings and Rome and so on.
No, no! Hear me out!
I trust the Paizo crew to do these books *well* and they would be very useful for both homebrewing and to those playing Pathfinder. So many of Golarion's countries have an obvious historical base and a book covering the "reality" of these lands (obviously using the real world, not Golarion), leaves the Pathfinder Chronicles line more open to delve into the weirdness and fantasy aspects of these lands.
Plus putting the two books together would make for awesome games (and marketing, if linked with an adventure path). It could be a great way to lead into the adventure paths, 6 months before the "pirate" adventure path comes out we get the historical pirate book. 3 months before, we get the Guide to the Shackles, etc.
Peace,
tfad
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What would be awesome is if Paizo, Necromancer Gamers and Maybe RGreen Ronin could release and update the Tomes of Horror and the Advance Bestiary.
The AP make SO much reference to them and leave some monster stat blocks bear, particularly in RotRL. It is hard and expensive to purchase these books. I would be all for monthly bestiary books or bi/tri monthly so long as the missing books can be replaced and updated.
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Creative Director
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I'd like to throw another side question in here...
If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?
Say, an Epic level book that didn't assume 21st level was the start, but went with an entirely new way to track character advancement (at the simplest, starting over at level 1 or something, but a level 1 epic character would be more powerful than a 20th level standard character).
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
*What form would you like these books to take? What titles/ideas would you like to see us explore?
I'd like to see new possibilities.
-Alternate "Power Sources" (i.e. Magic Incarnum, Blood Magic, Shadow Magic, Elemental Martial Classes, Psionic, etc.) (yes, I understand that some I listed are not OGL, but I was simply using them as an example).
-Player Options (i.e. 'group feats' so that an adventuring company can be known for a particular style (PHBII), giving traits a core rulebook treatment, things like skill tricks, variant classes, variant races).
-Mass combat system (a quality one has really been lacking in D&D). A 'called shot' system.
-A Feat Compendium comprised of material from across the 3.0/3.5 printing-verse similar to the Spell Compendium (but obviously not WotC feats).
-A book of fantay tech (alchemical weapons, siege weapons, magical farming equipment for rich land owners, different types of wards that most people would have on their homes, etc)
*Would you be interested in subscribing to such a line, provided the books cost somewhere around $35 a pop?
Depends. Are they going to be OGL? If not, then no. I'll pick up the ones I want when something peaks my interest. If they are, ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY!!! I ignored most of what Wizards did simply because I knew I was not going to see much support for it. It had much less in the way of options. I know Paizo is busy and the best I'm going to get from you guys is 1 book on some cool alternate magic system or stuff for mass combat, or etc. But I can always hope that some 3PP takes that one book and runs with it the way Dreamscarred ran with Psionics.
*What is your opinion of new classes and races?
Well, they should be themed. Standard races are Tolkien themed. How about races/classes that one would find on the red planet (but without Golarion fluff). How about Cthulu/Dark Sun/Ravenlost themed races. If I want a horror game, I don't want a standard gnome. I want a death gnome. Or how about a semi-vampiric race (part alive/part dead). That has a magic system that feels like calling upon dark, demonic powers simply to use it (as opposed to something that feels like an academic goes to school for). Or say I want a game without magic of any kind. For that I'd need expanded "martial" classes and would definitely need alternative healing rules.
*Are you as tired of prestige classes as I am?
Yes and no. I'm not tired of PrCs. I am tired of PrCs simply to fill page count (Complete Books). I'd rather have variant classes.
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Say, an Epic level book that didn't assume 21st level was the start, but went with an entirely new way to track character advancement (at the simplest, starting over at level 1 or something, but a level 1 epic character would be more powerful than a 20th level standard character).
This, I would be fine with. I'd buy a copy.
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
This, I would NOT be fine with. I'm a big psionics fan, but I very much doubt I would buy this. I like the XPH a lot, and would just like to see it update to PF status. The problem with this is that you risk alienating the people who already like psionics in order to make it appeal to people who don't already like it.
I'd like to throw another side question in here...
If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?
Say, an Epic level book that didn't assume 21st level was the start, but went with an entirely new way to track character advancement (at the simplest, starting over at level 1 or something, but a level 1 epic character would be more powerful than a 20th level standard character).
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
I would be willing to buy those books.
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
For Psionics that'd be a deal breaker.
For Epic, I'd be very interested to see what Paizo would come up with. The old (blue box?) Basic Set with the rules for being an immortal hero was a lot of fun. I'd probably buy this one sight-unseen. And that's coming from one of the only fans of the ELH!
Peace,
tfad
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Co-owner - Battlegrounds to Board Games
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I would be happy with a good psionics book. I mean lets give psionics the attention and playtesting that it deserves. I have loved psioncs from 1st edition D&D, but I understand that many people do not like them. I think this has been psionics wasn't give proper attention to help it mesh in with the other systems, It has always felt like an after-thought that was hastily put togeather and then tacked on. I would love to see all of the Psionic classes, races and creatures from the SRD and some new stuff too all get Pathfinder-ized, complete with detailed information about how they fit into this great new world.
I would be fine with a Beastiary book per year and I would like to see more options for the base classes, especially some of the open content from the Unearthed Arcana and other 3rd party stuff like Iron Heroes?
Let's see some solid epic rules too! I hate retiring a great character! I like spell and Item compendiums too!
All in all, I think 2-4 books per year is a good goal and you are guaranteed my money. I don't tend to do subscriptions though as I support my FLGS!
Thank you very much for putting this out to your fanbase! You're doing a great job! Keep up the good work!
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This, I would NOT be fine with. I'm a big psionics fan, but I very much doubt I would buy this. I like the XPH a lot, and would just like to see it update to PF status. The problem with this is that you risk alienating the people who already like psionics in order to make it appeal to people who don't already like it.
In my opinion psionics with out heavy moderation is broken. I am a fairly open and easy going DM... but I don't know of any game where psionics don't run without heavy modding or limits.
I do not hate psionics, in fact I like the idea, the system is broken and the core materials that WotC brought out feels like it was not well play tested at all... particular some of the prestiage classes.
If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?
Yes. Definitely.
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
ehhh .... Ok, this is going to sound weird. Yes, something getting away from points as they are right now is good because it does break the game. But I do not want it to dovetail with the existing divine/arcane system. If I play an alternate magic class, its because I like the flavor but also because I want something new to master. I want a different system to do something completely new and creative. I want a way of operating that arcane is not. Something like the Truename or the Shadow Magic systems are great examples of alternate magic systems that I love (if they were tweeked to make them workable).
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I'd like to throw another side question in here...
If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?
Say, an Epic level book that didn't assume 21st level was the start, but went with an entirely new way to track character advancement (at the simplest, starting over at level 1 or something, but a level 1 epic character would be more powerful than a 20th level standard character).
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
Yes and no....
Lets start with the EPIC... I would love a different set of rules for this. Not only is it a more complex system then it needs to be, it fundamentally changes the game in a poor way, making it a slow process to play the game at epic levels due to the amount of new rules to look up as opposed to just being a new level of your same rules.
Ditching the point based system... actually I prefer the point based system. I actually prefer the psionic rules and wished that the spell system conformed to this. It works better in my opinion and is more fluid and offers differing options. I know a lot of people would disagree and hey this is a free country but I am one of those DM's that seem to use about half the options in Unearthed Arcana just because I like them better. Spell points ...Check; Optional rules from Dragon Mag that makes it work better...Check; armor with DR...Check; Wounds rules...Check
Why have I not asked before...well backwards compatibility and quite frankly I want my Psionics rules backwards compatible too.
I'd like to throw another side question in here...
If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?
Say, an Epic level book that didn't assume 21st level was the start, but went with an entirely new way to track character advancement (at the simplest, starting over at level 1 or something, but a level 1 epic character would be more powerful than a 20th level standard character).
Say, a Psionics book that presented rules for psionics that ditched the point-based system and did psionics in a method that dovetailed easier and more gracefully into the core rules (The goal here being to ease concerns that adding psionics to an existing campaign tends to break that campaign.)
Basically: would folk still be interested in books like these if we took pains to stay true to the expected flavor of the book but rebuilt the rules drastically? Or would that be a deal-breaker?
I would expect you to rebuild the rules drastically. If these rules supplements are not much different from the 3.5 supplements there's not so much need for them imo (I'll buy them anyway though :)).
The reason I would like to see a Paizo Psionics book or a Paizo Epic book is precisely because I dont like the way the crunch was handled in 3.5. It's the exact same reason I now play pathfinder instead of 3.5 - I think the rules tweaks contained in PF are better than the 3.5 canon.