Director of Games
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Welcome to the Errata and Typos thread for the Skills and Feats portions of the classes chaper. If you spot any typos or rules that need errata in this section, please post them to this thread. Note that this is not a thread for discussing rules changes, only obvious mistakes or unclear rules. We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Under Leadership, page 89, it states:
Leadership Modifiers: Several factors can affect a you Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base...
Probably the best place to put these,
Acrobatics:
The skill says you can reduce damage from falls, but provides no rules or suggestion on where to look. Either include enough information to adjudicate or give a page reference for the falling rules. (p329 in the Beta)
Also the feat Blind Fight mentions needing to make Acrobatics check for moving at full speed when Blind. This should be mentioned in skill description and/or a page reference to the condition in the feat description. (p328 in the Beta)
Perception:
Might need a line saying 'In addition to an Appraise check with Detect Magic you can use Perception to ID potions.' a direct reading of the skills section was inconclusive, but clarified in the section on Potions.
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Table 6-1, p80
Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus list the benefit of each feat individually - +1 and +1, as described in the text. Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization list the cumulative benefits - +2 then +4 (+2 from WS and another +2 from GWS). The table should be consistent - either show individual benefits for both or cumulative benefits for both. Probably the former, or the second feat should read "Another +2 to ..."
PAGE 52: ACQUIRING SKILLS
At first level, your character gains a number of skill ranks dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier. At every level after that, you gain additional skill points. These skill points can be spent to purchase ranks of any skill, but you can only acquire a number of ranks in a specific skill equal to your total Hit Dice.
For the sake of clarity, I suggest the following change:
At first level, your character receives a number of skill points dependent on your class, plus additional points equal to your Intelligence modifier. At every level after that, you gain additional skill points. Skill points can be spent to purchase ranks in any skill, but a skill's total ranks can never exceed your total Hit Dice.
PRIMARY REASON:
The third sentence from the Beta can be interpreted to mean that you may purchase a number of skill ranks equal to your Hit Dice at each level.Example: At level 2 you can add two ranks to Stealth (Hit Dice = 2). At level 3, you can add three more ranks (Hit Dice = 3).
You can do this because a literal reading of the rules is that the maximum number of ranks you can acquire each time you get additional skill points is equal to your Hit Dice.
I'm pretty sure that's not what is intended but the words can mean just that.
SECONDARY (GRAMMAR) REASONS:
My suggestion also includes some grammar tweaks that fixed things that bugged me. :)
I revised the first sentence to be rid of the grammatically wacky image of adding your class to an ability modifier. ("...skill ranks dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier.")
And I got rid of the word "These" in sentence three. That pronoun can be read to refer only to the skill points gained with additional levels, thus creating an interpretation where the rules fail to describe how to spend skill points gained at first level. (As well as reinforcing the potential confusion cited in the primary reason.)
They are little things, I know. And I know many players would see past them. But I figure if Paizo wants our input, I should use the opportunity to plead for greater clarity. :)
-The description of Gorgon's Fist in table 6-1 says "Stagger a foe whose speed is reduced". In fact, you can stagger any foe with it.
-The feat Dazzling Display says "Make an Intimidate check against all foes within 30 feet who can see you.", but it doesn't specify what the result is (demoralizing, forcing the foes to act friendly, or either).
-The name of the feat Stunned/Stunning Defense is used inconsistently.
The Spellcraft table on page 72 shows that the DC for casting a spell while grappled is 15 + spell level; however, on page 155, on the rules for casting a spell while grappling or pinned, the listed DC is 20 + spell level.
Leadership, Page 89: Prerequisite is "6th Level Character" but you can't gain a feat at 6th level under Pathfinder RPG. The prereq should be moved to 5th level or 7th level as appropriate.
Turn Elemental Page 96 Wording in the second sentence implies you can damage "elemental creatures". This should be clarified similar to the way it is clarified for Turn Outsider (See below).
Turn Elemental:
Turn Outsider:
Perform, p69
When listing the 9 categories of perform:
• Act (comedy, drama, pantomime)
• Comedy (buffoonery, limericks, joke-telling)Should comedy be listed twice? I guess it could be both a genre of play and something akin to stand-up comedy. Seems redundant though.
The second "comedy" should be "buffoonery" or "jesting". There is a HUGE difference between performing Shakespeare's "As You Like It" and Dennis Leary's "No Cure for Cancer".
(Not making a judgement about the superiority of one over the other. Just saying they're different.)
Page 91-92 Quicken Spell:
Special: This feat can be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), allowing it to be cast as a swift action.
If read literally this implies that a sorcerer or bard can apply quicken to 'any spell' they cast regardless of the casting time. So a sorcerer would be able to quicken a spell with a 10 minute casting time.
The new feat Improved Iron Will should have Iron Will as a prerequisite (not Iron Fortitude).
Although some of this may have already been covered, I submit these observations for yoru consideration.
Here are some additional editing mistakes I have found in the Beta Playtest.
SKILLS:
- p 69 - SMELL: "... the scent is present for more than a 10 minutes." Remove the "a".
- PERFORM: ACT has comedy listed under it, but COMEDY has its own listing. Perhaps replace comedy with Tragedy under ACT?
- SURVIVAL: TRY AGAIN: Refers to a chart on page 69, but the chart is on page 73.
FEATS:
- p 83 CRAFT STAFF: "A newly created staff has 10 charges."
p 360 STAVES: " A staff has 50 charges when created."
- CRAFT WAND: CASTER LEVEL 5th: A wizard doesn't become able to cast 4th level spells until 8th level. Should prerequisite be raised to 8th level?
- DEADLY AIM: Doesn't get a "minimum 1" like Combat Expertise?
- ACROBATIC, ALERTNESS, ATHLETIC, ANIMAL AFFINITY, DECEITFUL, DEFT HANDS, MAGICAL APTITUDE, PERSUASIVE, SELF-SUFFICIENT, SKILL FOCUS, STEALTHY: "...increase to +6..." should be "... increases to +6..."
- DODGE: Explanation of conditions for new players would be helpful.
- IMPROVED UNARMED STRIKE: "... you do not provoke attacks or opportunity..." Replace "or" with "of".
- LEADERSHIP: With FEATS now taken at odd numbered levels should the Character Level now be 7th to take this Feat?
Im not sure if this was an intentional choice or a typo:
(credit to Vult Wrathblades for finding it)
Power Attack, page 92: "If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, add an amount equal to double your Strength modif ier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your melee damage rolls for 1 round (the penalty remains the same)."
Does this exclude one-handed weapons held with two hands?
On page 85, under the Dodge skill, the descriptive text states:
You have mastered a defensive stance that allows to you easily react to your opponents.
Should state:
You have mastered a defensive stance that allows you to easily react to your opponents.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I realize this is in the equipment section, but it relates to skills: "Grappling Hook: Throwing a grappling hook successfully requires a Use Rope check (DC 10, +2 per 10 feet of distance thrown)" (p. 112). Since 'use rope' is out, how about make it a ranged attack roll with the AC = 10 + 2 per 10 feet thrown with modifiers at DMs discretion?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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"Special: If you are proficient in the Acrobatics skill, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4" (p. 55)
What does it mean to be proficient? Five ranks?
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There are no rules for taking 10 or taking 20, or aiding another described at the beginning of the skills chapter, and should really be thereThis is an omission that will be corrected.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Any chance for a table like True20 had? If I remember correctly, it listed for which skills you could take 10 and/or take 20, plus which sort of action using each skill takes. Anyway, I remember thinking that it was really helpful for quick reference...
Jump (Acrobatics)
OK, +4/10' of movement > 30', and if a jump distance is longer than your movement, it completes next round.
What if people do a double move or Run(x3/x4/x5) & jump at the end of it,
do they get a bonus from their speed being double, or 3x/4x/5x? Clarify.
Craft (DC chart)
Simple Weapons have a higher DC than Martial Weapons (probably a type-o)
Arrows/ Bolts aren't on the DC chart. Maybe just add "AMMO" to Simple & Martial "melee and thrown weapons"...?
(exotic ammo should be more, i would think. shuriken are "ammo", right?)
Exotic Weapons should include Exotic RANGED Weapons, like for Guns, or just be "Exotic weapons" PERIOD.
Poison
Poisons as Skill Use aren't covered...
The Campaign Setting mentions Poison Master as an alternate Class Feature for rogues, and says they don't have a chance to poison them-selves... But how does this function normally?
Is there a distinct Craft(Poison), or just Alchemy? Know(Nature)/ Healing synergies?
Perception (vs. Stealth/Invisibility)
I thought that was seriously out-of-wack.
Armor/ No Armor/ Stealth should all use the base DC, and add/subtract Stealth Ranks and Armor Penalty where appropriate.
Otherwise, why NOT take 1 Rank in Stealth, since it raises the DC by 15 PLUS your Stealth skill, if wearing Armor?
Exactly, I don't understand why EVERYONE shouldn't use their Stealth,
(trained or untrained, higher Untrained characters would be better)
if they are moving faster than "Stealth speed" there's a penalty, there's a penalty in line with the Armor Check Penalty/ Encumbrance (whichever greater) so Heavy Plate is easier to detect than Studded Leather, etc. If there is a base DC, it should be the same for all scenarios, and different factors (Armor, Stealth, Size, etc) add to/subtract from it.
Perception (vs. Stealth/Invisibility)
"Pinpointing an invisible creature moving past you is a reactive check, DC 5 (+20 for invis) for armored foes, DC 10 (+20 for invis) for unarmored foes, or DC 20 + Stealth for invisible foes moving stealthily"
Which page is this quote on? All I see is a chart that says that an armored person walking is DC 5 (i.e. an average Stealth roll of 10 with a penalty of -5 for armor) and an unarmored person walking is DC 10 (i.e. an average Stealth roll of 10). I think you might just be misinterpreting the chart.
Escape artist p62:
Grappler: You can make an Escape Artist check opposed
by your enemy’s grapple check to get out of a grapple or out
of a pinned condition (so that you’re only grappling).
Grapple p151:
If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple
as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check
(DC 15 + opponent’s CMB, this does not provoke an attack
of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (DC 10 + opponent’s
CMB). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act
normally.
It's contradictory. I supposed the one on page 151 should be the one correct, right ?
In the Craft skill description, the process for determining time and money references "the table on page 55." There is a Craft Skills table on page *59* that lists DCs (Table 5-5), and the untitled table on page 55 for the Appraise skill, which is indexed by gp, rather than the sp the process list describes. Should the Craft text refer to "Table 5-5 on page 59" or is it actually referencing some variant of the Appraise table that uses the same bracketing values rendered in sp rather than gp? (I strongly suspect the former.)
~Doskious Steele
Oh, before I forget this one:
The Combat usage of Acrobatics (Tumble) should really be listed together with the Combat Usage of Bluff (Feint) in their own sub-section of Combat Maneuvers ("Skill-Based Maneuvers" or somesuch). There would be a BRIEF mention of the Combat Usage in each skill description, mostly to indicate it's detailed more in the Combat Section.
Since these work HIGHLY similarly, and are both opposed by BAB (or opposed Skill),
they should at least be consistent one way or the other, either described in Combat OR Skills...
clarify & unify the terms and use of SKILL POINTS and SKILL RANKS
p58 error: Craft, right column, step 2, "...DC from table on page 59..." or "...p59 TABLE 5-5..."
p86 error: Extra Rage, according to Barbarian Update document, there are no more Rage Points
p89 error: Leadership, line 2, MODIFIERS
p90 error, Cohort, last line, XP
possile rule's change: add damage suffered to DC when climbing and riding
Skills, 1st page, 2nd paragraph of Acquiring Skills:
"Character's who take levels in their favored class can also chose to gain 1 additional skill point."
Characters is plural, no apostrophe. Since races can have multiple favored classes, it should read "Characters who take a level in a favored class also gain 1 additional skill point." Chose is the wrong tense, and anyway it's not a choice, since no one would choose not to take the skill point.
In the ranger class it say at second level you can choose a feat called "Careful targeting" but we can'tfind it in the book. Is it in the book or was it left out?
In the ranger class it say at second level you can choose a feat called "Careful targeting" but we can'tfind it in the book. Is it in the book or was it left out?
This was also noted in the errata for the ranger class (link here).
yesterday we had some difficulties for finding the rules for softening falls....
ACROBATICS Skill mentions softening the fall, but you have to turn to page 329 to actually read the rules of how to do this. So either include a page reference under the acrobatics skill describtion or repreat the rules from p. 329 under the skill description (or at least in the DC tables) or insert the rules from 329 to acrobatics and remove them from p. 329 or or or... guess you know how to do it ;-)
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Im not sure if this was an intentional choice or a typo:
(credit to Vult Wrathblades for finding it)
Power Attack, page 92: "If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, add an amount equal to double your Strength modif ier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your melee damage rolls for 1 round (the penalty remains the same)."
Does this exclude one-handed weapons held with two hands?
Also: "...double your Strength modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower)"
That should presumably be "double your base attack bonus".
Or to reword : "If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, double the bonus added to damage rolls."
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Lack of definition for Take 10 and Take 20. Even though we all know what it is and it is alluded to in several skill descriptions.
Or maybe I'm just not seeing it.
Reason I bring this up is stated in another thread the clarification of take 10 and take 20. A lot of people (people in my own gaming group)think that you can't take 10 if there is risk of failure, but that is take 20. The only restrictions are in the individual skills (Use Magic Device) or if you are threatened or distracted (in combat). You can take 10 to climb a rock face if your climb skill is high enough, but you can't take 20 (because you could go splat), or take 10 to climb while fighting.
Under Diplomacy, the rules for how long a Gather Information usage takes is repeated twice.
[...] Acrobatics:
The skill says you can reduce damage from falls, but provides no rules or suggestion on where to look. Either include enough information to adjudicate or give a page reference for the falling rules. (p329 in the Beta) [...]
Also there are:
- no rules for Accelerated Tumbling. (should there be?)- no DC on using Acrobatics to land your feet when falling (should there be?)
- no DC on using Acrobatics to land your feet when jumping (should there be?)
The wording on page 329 is a bit unclear:
"Falling Damage: The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. [...]"
This could be read as: A DC 15 Acrobatics check when you deliberately jumps allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage.
There's no example in the text to follow on just falling and using acrobatics.
So whats the DC when you don't deliberately jump but fall?
Balance: "While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)."
Does those who have uncanny dodge also lose their dex bonus?
[...] ACROBATICS Skill mentions softening the fall, but you have to turn to page 329 to actually read the rules of how to do this. [...]
See post by Oni_NZ (5:th in this thread).
Ok, this is not really a typo, but a clarifying example could be awesome:
Empower Spell, page 85:
"All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables."
On spells where the formula is 'xdx', this is clear (for example, 10d6 become 10d6 x 1.5).
Sadly, the Player's Handbook listed as an example the spell magic missile, where the formula is '1d4+1 per missile'. Then, the example listed that ALL the value (1d4+1) had to be multiplied by 1.5.
From this example, most people think that for a spell like ray of enfeeblement, where the formula is '1d6, plus 1 for every 2 caster levels (max +x)' this is true as well.
I'm not sure about this, though. I've never found this stated clearly in any official FAQ or Errata, so it could be nice if this would be stated more clearly in PFRPG. A spell like magic missile deals 1d4+1 as a random variable, this is sure. But a spell that deals 1d6, +1 every caster level has a different random value - only the 'd6' portion would be multiplied by 1.5, IMHO...
It seems that proficiency is granted by spending skill points in the skill. After all, when you spend a single point in a class skill you get the "+3 to make you more proficient." The skill system is unclear however."Special: If you are proficient in the Acrobatics skill, you gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2, and a +6 dodge bonus to AC when taking the total defense action instead of the usual +4" (p. 55)
What does it mean to be proficient? Five ranks?
I was confused by "Proficient" too, until noticing this...
Dodge (Combat)
You have mastered a defensive stance that allows to you
easily react to your opponents.
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: As a swift action, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to
your AC until your next turn. If you have 10 or more ranks
in Acrobatics, the dodge bonus increases to +2.
Appears to be 10 ranks or more as I read it.
Suggest some mention of this in the skills section intro,which defines the term Proficient as 10 ranks, to alleviate the problem.
That would allude to the term being used in other skills later.
A table similar to this may be more helpful as well...
Proficiency in Acrobatics adds a dodge bonus to AC in combat.
Dodge Bonus to AC | base | 10 ranks | ttl | action | effect on attacks
full attack | +0 | +0 | +0 | full-round | all attacks
attack | +0 | +1 | +1 | standard | one attack
*dodge | +1 | +1 | +2 | swift | defensive stance
fighting defensively | +2 | +1 | +3 | standard | full attack, -4 to attacks
total defense | +4 | +2 | +6 | standard | cannot attack or make attacks of opportunity
*combat expertise | +Int | +1 | Int+1 | melee only, -Int to attacks
probably faster for look ups in the combat section, rather than under Acrobatics too.
maybe in both sections or a reference to it in either.
(pre tags would be nice, hint hint) ;)
Omission:
The feats of Turn Elemental and Turn Outsider are not listed in Table 6-1 Feats.
Sorting Error:
In the feat descriptions section (page 93), Scribe Scroll is listed before Scorpion Style, although in alphabetical order they should be reversed. (This is a carry over error from Alpha where I also posted about this).
Balance: "While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)."
Does those who have uncanny dodge also lose their dex bonus?
An additional observation/question on the Acrobatics skill: in the 3.5 rules characters with 5 or more ranks in balance (or Acrobatics in this case I guess) did not lose thier AC bonus while balancing. This was a good terrain tactic for Rogues, Bards & the like to gain an upperhand in melee. Is this being eliminated in PFRPG? I noticed that the "Ledge Walker" Rogue Talent allows the character to move at thier max move "with no penalties". Can this be construed as suffering "no loss to AC" while balancing (this will certainly become a point of debate between the players and DM of my game group)?
Cheers,
C.
Proficiency in Acrobatics adds a dodge bonus to AC in combat.
attack | +0 | +1 | +1 | standard | one attack
I’m a bit confused by your chart – are you suggesting a +1 bonus to AC on single attack actions from 10 ranks in Acrobatics?
The Ride Skill is listed (as in 3.x) as one of those skills without Armor Check Penalty on page 70, but the table on page 54 lists that Ride has Armor Check Penalty, instead (there is a little '1' just on the 'Dex', under the Ability column; and the legend on the bottom of the table says '1=Armor check penalty applies')
So, either the table or the description of the ability is wrong (I personally think the table is wrong, since Ride didn't have ACP in previous editions...).
Are there any guidelines for use of unconverted classes within the Pathfinder skill system, with regards to Class Skill lists? That is, if a 3.x class lists a skill (example: Gather Information) as a class skill, when that skill has been folded into a condensed skill in Pathfinder (ex: Diplomacy), but does not list the condensed skill (Diplomacy) as a class skill, if that class were to be played in a Pathfinder rules structure, would the character: get the condensed skill as a class skill (providing access to a broader skill set), get the class skill bonus only for the applications of the skill that match with un-condensed skill from 3.x (limiting full access to the original skill set), or be denied the condensed skill as a class skill since it was not on the 3.x source list (blocking access to an intended skill set)? In the middle case, would the character be able to have the condensed skill recognized as a class skill for the purposes of qualifying for Prestige Classes?
My ad hoc ruling regarding this was to go with the first interpretation which broadened the skill sets of several classes in play, which my players have been fairly pleased with, and which I will likely continue with. I'm curious if there is any official suggestion dealing with this problem, and if not, if there should be in the spirit of backwards compatibility, along the lines of the sidebar regarding 'Prestige Skills' for PrCs that have not yet been converted to Pathfinder.
Cheers,
~Doskious Steele