BUT: The question then becomes would enough people want to shell out 30 bucks or so for a big stand-alone adventure product that goes from, say, 15th level to 20th?
This would be the first Pathfinder product I'd have no interest in. Not only is the price too high for a single adventure, but the game simply doesn't work for my group at those levels. It just breaks down.
I would definitely purchase the PDF if it were up to $20.
I would consider purchasing the print volume, especially if it could be easily connected to most or any of the APs.
I would definitely purchase the print volume if the above were true and my PF subscription provided a PDF.
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It's certainly worth noting that my $30 price point was totally off the top of my head.
I understand the $30 figure is hypothetical.
Thinking more on it, a 15th–20th level adventure would be about 100,000 words long, likely with another 20,000 words or so of support material. Which means it'd be at least a 160 page book, maybe 200 pages or more. We've not really done softcover books in this page range yet, so I have no idea how the cost would break down.
Really? 200 pages? I was thinking of somethnig along the lines of "City of the Spider Queen" in size. It was about 160 pages IIRC. Also perfect bound with a perferated map booklet in the back. I belive it covered levels 12 to 18, or thereabouts. That would seem relatively comparable to a 15-20 level module (at least in my own amatuer understanding, which may be inadequate).
All of which means that we could be talking $40 or $50 or more. At which point we'd probably make it a hardcover and maybe think about a poster map... who knows?
To me, $30 would be good, $40 would be pushing it, and $50 would (for a single, high-level module) probably make it the first Pathfinder adventure/module/sourcebook/etc. that I didn't buy.
Hope that helps!
-Skeld
Creative Director
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Really? 200 pages? I was thinking of somethnig along the lines of "City of the Spider Queen" in size. It was about 160 pages IIRC. Also perfect bound with a perferated map booklet in the back. I belive it covered levels 12 to 18, or thereabouts. That would seem relatively comparable to a 15-20 level module (at least in my own amatuer understanding, which may be inadequate).
City of the Spider Queen is actually 176 pages, counting the map booklet at the end. And the higher level the adventure, the more stat blocks you have since you have fewer and fewer monsters in the MM that you can drop in and use short stat blocks for. And on top of there being more stat blocks, those stat blocks would be long themselves.
200 pages is a high-end estimate in any case.
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City of the Spider Queen is actually 176 pages, counting the map booklet at the end. And the higher level the adventure, the more stat blocks you have since you have fewer and fewer monsters in the MM that you can drop in and use short stat blocks for. And on top of there being more stat blocks, those stat blocks would be long themselves.
200 pages is a high-end estimate in any case.
That makes sense.
-Skeld
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I have to admit, I'm a little surprised that there's as large a cry FOR adventure paths that go to higher level even just in this thread than I thought there would be. It's worth pointing out, I suppose, that the levels listed for Legacy of Fire are "best guesses" at this point, of course; once the adventures are written things like this can change.
I'm not so sure that ending an Adventure Path at level 13 is that bad, though; it's just 2 levels lower than what the other three ended at. And you can still have a BBEG for a 12th-13th level adventure that's memorable. A CR 16 creature's not totally outlandish.
Anyway, I do hear those calling out for their preferences for adventure paths to go to higher levels. It's too late to do MUCH changing for Legacy of Fire, since authors have been at work on this one for a few months already, but again, if the adventures come in and there's a lot more "meat" in them and they can support 3 or 4 level gains... that's an easy enough change to make.
What I'm saying is that the text on the blurbs for the website are, as usual, subject to change.
The adventuer I'm doing in the LoFAP, #4 out of 6, is nominally for levels around 8-9, but it's one where exactly how much adventuring you get out of it depends on what you do. It is a bit more of a 'sandbox' than a railroad. If PCs wanted to "clear out" the adventure like we used to do with modules back in 1st Ed, I could easily see them ending up with more than 2 levels worth of advance, but I don't know how likely that is vs. trying to "finish" the adventure and move on.
It's an interesting question, though it will be even more interesting when the APs start using the full PF rules and how that plays with the idea of supporting high-level play.
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Now... if we WERE to do a stand-alone high level mega-adventure, what I'd be sorely tempted to do would be to set it up as a sequel of sorts to an Adventure Path. Maybe something that ties together elements from two or even three Adventure Paths, so it could serve as a continuation for several APs, even. High-level adventures take more time to write and develop and edit, and taking them off of the monthly schedule would be a HUGE advantage to us here at Paizo as well...
BUT: The question then becomes would enough people want to shell out 30 bucks or so for a big stand-alone adventure product that goes from, say, 15th level to 20th?
Only do one AP sequel at a time, that way players don't have to pick which character to play.
I'd also love to see the APs sorted into 'trilogies' like the 'Varisian' trilogy.
So find a way to tie Council of Thieves to Legacy of Fire =p
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Honestly... that's why I'm a bit timid and hesitant to start an AP at higher than 1st level anyway...You are nowhere near as timid about the idea than I am, I assure you.
This one is going to take some major convincing from all parties.
Maybe if it was built off an already existing module or module series, Falcon's Hollow is already too far ahead but by the time you're ready to do AP9 there'll undoubtedly be a lot more 1st and 2nd level modules to spark an AP.
Love this idea! Pay? Yes!
Now... if we WERE to do a stand-alone high level mega-adventure, what I'd be sorely tempted to do would be to set it up as a sequel of sorts to an Adventure Path. Maybe something that ties together elements from two or even three Adventure Paths, so it could serve as a continuation for several APs, even. High-level adventures take more time to write and develop and edit, and taking them off of the monthly schedule would be a HUGE advantage to us here at Paizo as well...
BUT: The question then becomes would enough people want to shell out 30 bucks or so for a big stand-alone adventure product that goes from, say, 15th level to 20th?
I just wanted to add my support for the non-adventure content in Pathfinder, mention I'm not bothered by the lower level range, and say that I would pick up the hypothetical high-level product, even at $50.
You guys so own me. :p
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I just wanted to add my support for the non-adventure content in Pathfinder, mention I'm not bothered by the lower level range, and say that I would pick up the hypothetical high-level product, even at $50.
You guys so own me. :p
Not as much as they own me.
*points to Supercriber tag*
I can't say as I'm exactly thrilled by only going to 12th level, but I can understand it. A mega adventure at 15th-20th with Paizo's proven quality would be worth $30, easy. $50, too, if the page count is sufficient.
*points to Supercriber tag*
Yeah, something weird happened there. I've been onboard since issue 1, but I think I was a bit late to get that tag? It's too far back for my pitiful memory to dig out.
Interesting feedback.
It's certainly worth noting that my $30 price point was totally off the top of my head. Thinking more on it, a 15th–20th level adventure would be about 100,000 words long, likely with another 20,000 words or so of support material. Which means it'd be at least a 160 page book, maybe 200 pages or more. We've not really done softcover books in this page range yet, so I have no idea how the cost would break down. But it'd certainly be more expensive, and it'd certainly sell less than a lower level adventure of the same size (that's just a fact of life for high level adventures, I'm afraid), so the print run wouldn't be as huge as for a Pathfinder...
All of which means that we could be talking $40 or $50 or more. At which point we'd probably make it a hardcover and maybe think about a poster map... who knows?
We ARE looking at methods for doing high level adventures though... but we're still relatively far away from doing them for real.
But it's good to know that there's a pretty vocal support for them! :-)
Done right and I'd buy this product in a heart beat. I'd love to see a real high quality high level mega adventure done by Paizo. AoWs from Champions Belt through to Dawn of a New Age was some of the most epic fantasy gaming I have seen since the original Dragonlance modules.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing what you guys come up with when your pulling out all the stops.
I am hesitant to drop money on APs because my group's attention span is difficult to keep. I kept them through the Dragonlance Saga but I am having some difficulty with Shackled City. My group has a hard time meeting every week so we prefer smaller story arcs. I try to build campaigns now that hobble together separate stories. In this manner I seem to keep people around longer than I would with a single story.
I love supermodules. I eagerly devour them because of the above mentioned reasons. I can take a supermodule or a 3-4 module series and slap them into a campaign. My last 3.5 game played to 25th level using supermodules and module series. That amount of play time is unprecedented in one of our games but the smaller stories were easier to follow.
High level modules that have any quality at all are hard to find. I would be interested in something on par with Paizo's previous material. The cost, provided it doesn't exceed $50 or thereabouts, is secondary to the quality of the adventure in my opinion.
Yet another here who far prefers an AP to end at much higher levels. It is a bit disappointing that Legacy of Fire might end at such lower levels... :( (For us, D&D doesn't even get really good until the 7th-15th range.)
We find pretty consistently that sales for the last installments of an AP are lower than sales of the earlier parts, actually. It's been that way from the start. Pathfinder's not as bad, though, since we have such a stronger subscription base going on there. But also, Pathfidner APs don't go as high level as Dungeon's did, which could be why we're seeing less of a dropoff. In fact, this data point from working on Dungeon's 3 adventure paths is the #1 reason we went on to do Pathfinder's adventure paths as 14 level or so APs and not 20 level ones.
Are you sure that this has to do with higher levels, as opposed to factors such as higher sales simply due to it being the beginning of an AP, and/or "AP fatigue"?
And heck frickin' yes, I would buy a high-level hardcover supermodule (nevermind it being a high-level supermodule AP sequel!). High-level adventures are the hardest and longest to create, and are far too under-represented - whattaya think I'm paying the designers for?!
I don't mind APs ending at high levels, I would just prefer that it takes much longer to rise from 1- 20. It doesn't seem right to me that a party can rise from 1 -20 in less than a year in game world time? Shouldn't it take a hero most of his life to become so powerful?
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Creative Director
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Yet another here who far prefers an AP to end at much higher levels. It is a bit disappointing that Legacy of Fire might end at such lower levels... :( (For us, D&D doesn't even get really good until the 7th-15th range.)
Again... it's worth pointing out that Legacy of fire breaks down like this:
1: levels 1 to 3
2: levels 4 to 5
3: levels 6 to 7
4: levels 8 to 9
5: levels 10 to 11
6: levels 12 to 13 (and you'll MIGHT be able to hit 14)
So a bit over half of Legacy of fire falls into the "sweet spot" of 7th–15th.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Just to throw my money into the hat: I like low levels best. While i do not intent to drop any subscriptions over this (might have to do because of employment issues, though), i would much prefer you stayed with the 1-X model. Maybe play a little with the higher end, but starting off as "newbies" just never gets old in my book.
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*points to Supercriber tag*Yeah, something weird happened there. I've been onboard since issue 1, but I think I was a bit late to get that tag? It's too far back for my pitiful memory to dig out.Kvantum's superscriber tag means that he subscribes to everything. Not just the Pathfinder Adventure Paths but to the Chronicles and Companions too, and even to the Planet Stories line. (Possibly a couple of other lines as well which escape my memory at present.)
Edit:
I have just checked, and there is the module line, too, of course.
Planet Stories isn't a part of Superscriber. Pathfinder, Chronicles, Companion, and the Modules. And probably the Rulebooks, whenever they get a sub up for that one as well.
How about "Pathfinder EPIC Adventure Paths". You could pull in previous adventure paths with something like "If the characters just finished Legacy of Fire" or "Rise of the Rune Lords" etc then use plot hook/thread X, Y and Z to pull them in. After that the EPIC AP would take over.
I know that would add some to the word count but I don't think that much because complete consistency with the previous AP would not be required. Only a little hook or idea tossed in the mix.
MD
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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How about "Pathfinder EPIC Adventure Paths". You could pull in previous adventure paths with something like "If the characters just finished Legacy of Fire" or "Rise of the Rune Lords" etc then use plot hook/thread X, Y and Z to pull them in. After that the EPIC AP would take over.
I know that would add some to the word count but I don't think that much because complete consistency with the previous AP would not be required. Only a little hook or idea tossed in the mix.
MD
Excellent idea. I don't buy a lot of gaming stuff any more, cuz 27-1/2 years of purchases keep staring at me from my bookshelf and I feel bad about buying more, but I might have to bust out the credit card if some sufficiently interesting products arise.
I like having the higher-level AP not be solely created as a sequel to just one earlier AP, but to have metaplots that can be hooked into several of the basic APs.
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Add my voice to the cry for high level adventures.
I understand the many reasons to keep the adventures from low to semi high level. However, I think Monte Cook sums it up pretty well in the first adventure he put out for Malhavoc Press "The Demon Gods Fane". He basiclly said that high level adventures are much harder to create than lower level ones. Therefore it should make the job of a DM easier when the bulk of this work (stat blocks being a big one) is done for him.
I think a super module that caps off Rise of the Runelords would be awesome! Also, a super module for Darkmoon Vale would also be a great capstone for all the cool adventures set in that area.
Regardless of whatever content the super adventure has, I know that I will buy it. The reason being that all of you guys a Paizo put out such great work both in content a quality that its pretty hard to go wrong. In addtion the price point of your products are excellent when you look at the care and quality of the work put into them.
So keep up the great work and more high level adventures!
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My thought is that Paizo classes in the players guide goes from 1-20th. Each of the new prestige classes just released has 10 levels. Most of which you can't even start until 6-7tth level, which means you can't even get to the upper levels of the prestige classes in the APs. This was the reason I liked AoW, Shackled City, and Savage Tide. It actually allowed me to get to use those cool abilities at the end of class progression. I ask that if you do not want to do the extra writing then do the sidebars that tells us what to add to raise the EL's to get to a levels we need.
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Creative Director
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This is where I step in, of course, and point out that early in 2009 we'll be releasing "Blood of Dragonscar," a module for 15th level. If that module does a LOT better than the other modules, then we'll have even MORE proof that folk are hungry for and want high level adventures. If that module does equal to or less than the average module in the line, that'll tell us that folk are either against high-level or simply don't care. And if folk don't care, we'll probably continue focusing on low or mid-level adventures simply because they're less difficult to make happen.
Of course, Dragonscar's success is not the only measurement we'll use to answer this question. The high-level Pathfinders are there too, and of course threads like this one help us decide how often to do high level adventures as well.
I will add my agreement to others who have said that they would buy a continuation of the AP's into higher levels. If I broke down and bought the very horrible "World's Largest Dungeon" for $100, what is $50 to me for a finely produced product.
I do think that if it happens, perhaps think of doing one every couple of years. That's depending on how the first one works out.
How about "Pathfinder EPIC Adventure Paths". You could pull in previous adventure paths with something like "If the characters just finished Legacy of Fire" or "Rise of the Rune Lords" etc then use plot hook/thread X, Y and Z to pull them in. After that the EPIC AP would take over.
I know that would add some to the word count but I don't think that much because complete consistency with the previous AP would not be required. Only a little hook or idea tossed in the mix.
MD
This is a good idea. One of the Pathfinder's could run the same number of issue but cover levels 15-30 or something. it might not sell as well as the other APs but it would sell pretty well, I'm sure, it's Pathfinder after all. Then the novelty would be pretty cool.
But really, what is there for epic level APs? Complete Campaigns has the one campaign with the name I can't remember and deals with drow that goes to level 30. However, from what I've read, the campaign isn't that great and it's awfully pricey.
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Personally, I am very happy to hear that an AP will stop at lower level.
1) Both as a player and DM, my preference goes to lower level adventure. They are more my cup of tea. I can fully understand why many would prefer epic adventures, and I respect that. But my personal taste runs more along the line of gritty scenarios which I find fits more with lower levels.
2) There are already quite a few 3.5 APs out there for those looking for high level epic feel. I would be happy if once every 3 or 4 AP, one could be dedicated to those who, like me, feel more at home in the lower level tiers. It is true that one can play an existing Pathfinder AP and stop after the first half, but to me who loves the stories, I feel a bit cheated if I don’t get the full arc...
3) Paizo’s adventures have this reputation of being pretty killer, that comes a certain level, you need to minmax your characters to survive. My mind isn’t fully made up on that point, but it is true that Paizo’s APs often feature fewer encounters which are more challenging. That may be in part due to a simple word count limitation. Having more pages to level less could mean more time to “smell the roses”: getting a few easier encounters in there for the flavor or the roleplay.
4) One problem I have with the current APs is simply the rate of level progression it implies: getting from level 1 to 15 or 20 within a year or two of “in game” time is something I’ve always had problem wrapping my brain around. Maybe it’s just me, but verisimilitude is important in my roleplaying. In this respect, I find that an adventure like Red Hand of Doom feels much more natural, even if we’re talking 5 levels in one adventure (going from 5 to 10). I believe a lower level AP would cater to that.
My 2 coppers :)
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I can appreciate people’s dislike of high level play due to the mechanics of how the 3.5 system works.
However, someone correct me if I’m wrong here but isn’t high level play one of the areas that is having the kinks worked out with the PF:RPG?
I also think that there’s a distinction between what people are calling high-level play and epic level play. I’m of the mind that epic level play happens after PC’s advance past 20th level. Honestly that’s something I’m not particularly interested in.
I think it only makes sense that at some point after the PF:RPG rules have come out that Paizo makes a special AP that showcases for DM’s and Players alike an AP from 1-20 to get that experience with the new rules. Or at the very least a regular AP from levels 1-15 or 16 and then an optional super module that concludes at level 20.
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Creative Director
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I think it only makes sense that at some point after the PF:RPG rules have come out that Paizo makes a special AP that showcases for DM’s and Players alike an AP from 1-20 to get that experience with the new rules. Or at the very least a regular AP from levels 1-15 or 16 and then an optional super module that concludes at level 20.
It does. I've been thinking about this too, in fact. I'm still not 100% sure how high Council of Thieves, the first Pathfinder RPG AP, will go...
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Creative Director
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I vote for high/epic level adventure. My dream is epic AP - six softcovers for 15-30 level. Low- or Mid- level adventures I can find elsewhere (or create myself). For epic play I have only "Quicksilver Hourglass" (for 30 level party) from Dungeon 123 (June 2005). I don't have time to create many epic level NPC to populate my own epic story. My players enjoy epic level play - our last campaign use many times "Epic Level Handbook" and "Deities and Demigods" (some of them are lesser gods with 1 divine rank). We finish because I don't have more epic adventures and I don't have a time to create another ( our last adventure is ... "Quicksilver Hourglass"). I think that 200 page hardcover with high (epic?) adventure for 40$ is a very good deal (=2*20$ for 96 page softcover).
I'm 99% sure we couldn't do a 15 level epic adventure (form 15th to 30th); the stat blocks and situations involved just grow far too enormous to fit into the same amount of space that lower level adventures do... a fact complicated by the fact that there's simply not NEARLY as many epic level creatures to pick from, so we'd have to make up a lot more stat blocks than normal. Further complicating the fact is that (in my experience) there are precious few authors who can write epic level adventures, since they require a VERY different mindset than what standard level adventures require. And they take a LOT longer to edit and develop as a result, which means we'd need more time than we currently have to make this happen. That means getting a lot more ahead of schedule than we're at, so that we can start the development/editing cycle earlier. Doing an epic mega-adventure as a one-shot release is less heinous since that doesn't have to adhere to a monthly cycle, which is why doing an epic adventure in such a format and NOT in Pathfinder is starting to appeal to me more and more.
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I have to admit, I'm a little surprised that there's as large a cry FOR adventure paths that go to higher level even just in this thread than I thought there would be. . . . Anyway, I do hear those calling out for their preferences for adventure paths to go to higher levels.Just adding my voice to that large cry for higher level APs. In fact, I'd love to see one start at 10th. I'd like to see some PCs actually get to use some of those high level capstone powers without having to write out tons of stats myself.
Me too...
...I wish you would publish a high level super-module of like 64+ pages!
Me Three... I want to weigh in that I do not want the APs to be lower level but I would like them to go to 20th and I would love an AP that started at 10th level and went to 20th. I have mentioned this before - it would be great to have a sequal to RotR.
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Now... if we WERE to do a stand-alone high level mega-adventure, what I'd be sorely tempted to do would be to set it up as a sequel of sorts to an Adventure Path. Maybe something that ties together elements from two or even three Adventure Paths, so it could serve as a continuation for several APs, even. High-level adventures take more time to write and develop and edit, and taking them off of the monthly schedule would be a HUGE advantage to us here at Paizo as well...
BUT: The question then becomes would enough people want to shell out 30 bucks or so for a big stand-alone adventure product that goes from, say, 15th level to 20th?
James - that sounds perfect. I am ready for this one now.
Consider this another vote for low level stuff, i find it by far the most fun.
I totally disagree. Where on the Forums have DM's and player's been complaining about the adventures ending at too higher level? At least run a poll and give us a vote. Where have you received poor feedback about the content of the AP's being too thin due to space?? I was under the impression that the vast majority of us were more than happy with the old format.
The whole point of the AP's is to run the adventure. So I'd like to see less space wasted on PF Journals and other fluff and more pages on the adventure.
Journals, Town Details, Area History etc. could be released as a separate supporting .pdf.
Why not have an extra .pdf called The DM's Guide containing all the AP's extra's like town maps, back history etc.
I'd happily pay a few more bucks for more adventure material.
Lowering the end level is taking the DM's option to end early if he doesn't like running the higher level stuff.
Hookmountain massacre got a lot of attention for being more than a little pressed for space.
As for the rest of the fluff...thats a major reason why i buy pathfinder products at all.
Now... if we WERE to do a stand-alone high level mega-adventure, what I'd be sorely tempted to do would be to set it up as a sequel of sorts to an Adventure Path. Maybe something that ties together elements from two or even three Adventure Paths, so it could serve as a continuation for several APs, even. High-level adventures take more time to write and develop and edit, and taking them off of the monthly schedule would be a HUGE advantage to us here at Paizo as well...
BUT: The question then becomes would enough people want to shell out 30 bucks or so for a big stand-alone adventure product that goes from, say, 15th level to 20th?
To be honest, i would have no interest in a high level AP at all under normal conditions, however, being able to return to faverate characters in a popular location (such as korvosa or sandpoint) would be a more than happy to do.
It is one of the great benifits of the lower finishing point of Legacy of fire, that it would be even better suited to the role of having a sequal.
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I am usually the lower level standard bearer. That said a well done AP that sequels one or more of the AP's is quite an enticing idea. If it were to include bits and pieces from more than one AP then you could pull characters from several groups, perhaps the wizard that player A ran in CotCT and the Paladin Player B played in RotRL etc. That alone could be quite interesting. I am not even sure I care what levels it went from/to, as long as it started at a reasonable level in relation to the AP's it is drawing story lines from.
We already have adventure paths that go from 1st to 15th. A 3rd to 15th would be silly, I think, as a result. If we started at 3rd level, we'd go at least to 17th or 18th level.
Have you thought about doing shorter paths, like 3 issues in length instead if 6?
Hookmountain massacre got a lot of attention for being more than a little pressed for space.As for the rest of the fluff...thats a major reason why i buy pathfinder products at all.
I can see that you're not alone in thinking that but I'd like to point out that the PF AP's are not replacements for Dungeon or Dragon magazine. They are in fact Adventure Paths and, imo, should only contain material that is entirely adventure related.
This is where I step in, of course, and point out that early in 2009 we'll be releasing "Blood of Dragonscar," a module for 15th level. If that module does a LOT better than the other modules, then we'll have even MORE proof that folk are hungry for and want high level adventures. If that module does equal to or less than the average module in the line, that'll tell us that folk are either against high-level or simply don't care. And if folk don't care, we'll probably continue focusing on low or mid-level adventures simply because they're less difficult to make happen.
If "Blood of Dragonscar" doesn't do all that well, it could be that the DM's buying and running the AP's are not also buying the Modules...
[Yes I know I am...!]
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Creative Director
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We already have adventure paths that go from 1st to 15th. A 3rd to 15th would be silly, I think, as a result. If we started at 3rd level, we'd go at least to 17th or 18th level.Have you thought about doing shorter paths, like 3 issues in length instead if 6?
We did... but decided against it. Six months is working out pretty well for us for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that lets us do 2 a year and still have a new one launch at Gen Con.
I can see that you're not alone in thinking that but I'd like to point out that the PF AP's are not replacements for Dungeon or Dragon magazine. They are in fact Adventure Paths and, imo, should only contain material that is entirely adventure related.
Hookmountain massacre got a lot of attention for being more than a little pressed for space.As for the rest of the fluff...thats a major reason why i buy pathfinder products at all.
they are not, you are right. However, from the very first, the AP's where billed as adventures AND supplimental material designed to help build and fleshout a new campaign setting. If was this, and the WAR art work which grabbed my attention. And it was this fact that got be to perchase burnt offerings. It was the quality of burnt offerings and the supplimentary articials that made me perchase the rest of that AP and so ON. It is true of many people from what i have seen. More than this, almost every articial has been directly realated to some aspect the adventure path. Even the chronicle, which i initially disliked has proven a fine source of coolness in my campaigns. For instance, thanks to the chronicle in five, when i started playing in CotCT, i was able to speak with the slang of korvosa.
Your welcome to your opinion, but i am glad that Paizo do not share it.