Paladin - Holy Channeling instead of Channel Energy at 4th level

[Jason Nelson]

Another idea buried in the 400-post Paladin Upgrade thread, and I believe now twice eaten by the postmonster, but that I thought I would repost for general consideration.

Rather than using the same channel energy power as the cleric, why not give the paladin something unique and distinctive. At first this looks like kind of a wall of text, but realize that this is analogous not only to the channel energy class ability for clerics (3 paragraphs on p. 22 of PF Beta) but also the section on channeling energy in the Combat chapter (which I would actually much rather see in the cleric description, instead of having to search for it each time it comes up) (7 paragraphs on pp. 148-149).

Anyway, for your consideration, I present:

VERSION A:

This version does similar curing/damaging to channel energy, or an alternate non-damaging effect. You do only one thing at a time, choosing which you will use.

Holy Channeling (Su): At 4th level, a paladin has the power to channel divine energies directly from the upper planes through his holy symbol. This power bolsters creatures of good alignment and harms those of evil alignment in a 30-foot burst. A paladin may use holy channeling a number of times per day equal to 3+ her Charisma modifier. Save DCs are equal to 10 + 1/2 paladin level + Charisma modifier.

The paladin may choose to heal those of good alignment and harm those who are evil. Good creatures in the burst are healed of 1d6 points of damage per 2 paladin levels. Neutral creatures are neither healed nor harmed, but evil creatures suffer 1d6 points of damage per 2 paladin levels to evil creatures, with a Will save allowed to halve damage. Evil outsiders, fiendish creatures, and any creature with the [evil] subtype or an aura of evil suffer double damage.

A paladin can instead choose to release a burst of spiritual power that bolsters good creatures and terrifies those of evil alignment. Good creatures gain a +1 morale bonus to weapon attack and damage rolls and to saves against fear and charm that lasts for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's Charisma bonus. If they are currently under a charm or fear effect, they are entitled to an immediate saving throw to break the effect. The morale bonus increases by +1 and the healing by 1d6 for every 4 paladin levels beyond 4th (e.g., +5 and 5d6 at 20th level).

Evil creatures within the burst are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's Charisma modifier; evil outsiders, fiendish creatures, and creatures with the evil subtype or an aura of evil are frightened instead. Evil creatures succeeding on a Will save are shaken for 1 round.

Finally, a paladin may use holy channeling to command the allegiance of a single good outsider, celestial creature, or creature with the good subtype or an aura of good within 30 feet. This effect works as charm monster (Will save negates) with a duration of 1 day. While a paladin may use this ability on more than one creature, the total number of hit dice of creatures commanded may not exceed his paladin level.

VERSION B:

This version is more about multitasking, having multiple effects come into play at once. You give ONE use of the ability and it booms out and does all the stuff on the list.

Holy Channeling (Su): At 4th level, a paladin has the power to channel divine energies directly from the upper planes through his holy symbol. This power bolsters creatures of good alignment and harms those of evil alignment in a 30-foot burst. A paladin may use holy channeling a number of times per day equal to 3+ her Charisma modifier.

Evil creatures within the holy channeling suffer 1d6 points of damage and are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's Charisma modifier. A Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladin level + Charisma modifier) negates the shaken effect but not the damage. The fear caused by holy channeling affects undead as well as living creatures. This is a good, mind-affecting effect.

Evil outsiders, fiendish creatures, and creatures with the evil subtype or an aura of evil suffer double damage and are frightened on a failed Will save.

Good-aligned creatures receive 1d6 points of healing and a +1 morale bonus to weapon attack and damage rolls and to saves against fear and charm. If they are currently under a charm or fear effect, they are entitled to an immediate saving throw to break the effect. The morale bonus increases by +1 and the healing by 1d6 for every 4 paladin levels beyond 4th (e.g., +5 and 5d6 at 20th level).

Good outsiders, celestial creatures, and any creature with the good subtype or an aura of good gain double the normal amount of healing, and if the paladin wishes he may attempt to command the allegiance of one or more such creatures. This effect lasts for 1 day and is equivalent to a charm monster spell. A Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladin level + Charisma modifier) negates the command, and the paladin may only affect one or more creatures whose total hit dice do not exceed his class level.

The curing ability of Version B is less than for the clerical channel positive energy (unless you have the good subtype, like a paladin or good cleric), which I don't mind; after all, a paladin still has lay on hands for straight-up curing. I could see an argument for doubling the curing and having the "special effects" be an option (i.e., damage OR fear vs. evil, healing OR bolster/command vs. good) via version A, and I think I like that version better, but I think this would a neat and distinctive paladin ability that wouldn't just be a second-rate cleric knockoff.

Thoughts?

[Vult Wrathblades]

I really like B but both are great. Maybe drop the command thing, I dont see a paladin commanding anything that is good. If you had to have it maybe some form of compulsion...but not a command.

But all in all I think this is great, different from the cleric yet still using the same basic mechanic. Awesome idea man.

[Iron Sentinel]

I'm leaning toward Option A, Jason. I like giving the paladin more choices. With that said, I think you have a great idea.

[Snorter]

I'm not sure about commanding/compelling good outsiders.

If you're on a noble, holy quest, then shouldn't they want to help you anyway? If they say they have more urgent errands, then do you have a right to drag them away?

And if you're not on a noble, holy quest, then what do you think you're playing at? They should shame you into helping them!

[Arnim Thayer]

I like it.

It's simple, works well within the Channel Energy mechanic, and still stays unique to the Paladin.

My only question is how does this stack (if at all) with a cleric's Channel Energy if a character multi-classes?

And as the other s have said, I would lose the Command Good Outsider aspect of this ability.

Good work, though.

[ruemere]

In my opinion, while both versions seem to be climactic and impressive, they are a bit too complicated with regard to number of possible applications.

Version A is equal to Channel Energy, with different cast limit per day and with a DC OR Prayer + healing OR Charm Monster (Good Oustider).
Version B is similar, though a little less clear on effects available.
In both cases, it would take some time before players and GM familiarized themselves with exact effects of the ability.

Use of the ability in combat would be also rather awkward - "I use ability X to do Y" instead of standard and clear "I use ability X".

My proposal for you would be to divide this ability into several different powers. For example, following example of Barbarian Rage:

Level 1:
Holy Channeling (Su): As a free action you call to heavens and draw holy power unto yourself. Holy channeling lasts Charisma+1 rounds. You may use this power once per day per 5 Paladin levels. You gain Fast Healing 2 for the duration of this power.

Level 1:
Holy Smite: Requires active Holy Channeling. As a Swift action transfer the power of Holy channeling into your weapon and release it upon succesful attack. If you hit and if the struck creature is Evil, you deal additional 1d6 holy damage per two paladin levels. Otherwise, you may hold the charge on your weapon for the number of rounds equal to your total level.
Note: Use of Swift action means that you may Smite only once per round, you no longer gain attack bonus, your damage increases a little, and the smite is not wasted if you hit non-Evil opponent or if you miss.

Level 3:
Lay on Hands (Su): Requires active Holy Channeling. As a Swift action, heal your self for number of hitpoints equal to your level or as a Standard action (touch required) heal target creature for the same amount.

Level 4:
Guiding Hand (Su): Requires active Holy Channeling. As a Swift action, you gain divine insight into weakness of your opponent. Gain attack bonus equal to your Charisma bonus.
Note: It does not require that opponent's alignment is Evil.

Level 6:
ChannelEenergy: Requires active Holy Channeling. As a swift action you may Channel energy as per Cleric ability. Your caster level is equal to sum of all levels of all classes which can use Channel energy.
Note: it is a little better than Cleric ability since it requires only Swift action to use. Hence, even higher level.

Level 8:
Improved Holy Smite: As Holy Smite, but you deal 1d6 holy damage per Paladin level.

Level 16:
Greater Holy Smite: As Improved Holy Smite, and damaged creature must succeed at Will save (DC: 10 + 1/2 Paladin levels + Charisma bonus) or be affected by (choose one): Banishment (as per spell), Shaken condition (Mind affecting Fear effect), Panicked condition (Fear effect), Stunned condition (Fear effect), Paralyzed condition for (Mind affecting effect) until the end of your Holy channeling.

Level 20:
Holy vessel: Requires active Holy Channeling. Always active while usinng Holy Channeling. Gain Fast Healing 10. Gain DR10/-. Gain Strength enhancement bonus equal to your Paladin level. Gain Spell Resistance equal to your level +10. Gain AC bonus equal to 1/2 of your level.
Note: while this is a powerful ability, please note that it does not grant ability to circumvent magical barriers, does not exceed similar abilities of Wizard of similar level and lasts only a few rounds.

Regards,
Ruemere

[lastknightleft]

Jason Nelson wrote:

VERSION A:

This version does similar curing/damaging to channel energy, or an alternate non-damaging effect. You do only one thing at a time, choosing which you will use.

Holy Channeling (Su): At 4th level, a paladin has the power to channel divine energies directly from the upper planes through his holy symbol. This power bolsters creatures of good alignment and harms those of evil alignment in a 30-foot burst. A paladin may use holy channeling a number of times per day equal to 3+ her Charisma modifier. Save DCs are equal to 10 + 1/2 paladin level + Charisma modifier.

The paladin may choose to heal those of good alignment and harm those who are evil. Good creatures in the burst are healed of 1d6 points of damage per 2 paladin levels. Neutral creatures are neither healed nor harmed, but evil creatures suffer 1d6 points of damage per 2 paladin levels to evil creatures, with a Will save allowed to halve damage. Evil outsiders, fiendish creatures, and any creature with the [evil] subtype or an aura of evil suffer double damage. This ability functions as channel energy for the purpose of feats and spells

As much as we may have gotten into a little lovers spat to get here, (and if you had suggested it before I had completely missed it but that's not exactly surprising considering how long that thread is). I'm fine with it just having the one use and being burnable for my feats. I like the change, as I said in our fight, if he's not a cleric then we need to give him something different. This is certainly something different and I like it.

[Jason Nelson]

Arnim Thayer wrote:

I like it.

It's simple, works well within the Channel Energy mechanic, and still stays unique to the Paladin.

My only question is how does this stack (if at all) with a cleric's Channel Energy if a character multi-classes?

It's two entirely separate abilities, so it would not stack at all. You could use one or the other.

Although, in response to LKL above, I would say it "counts as channel energy" for the purpose of feats or abilities that require CE as a prerequisite or the expenditure of CE attempts to activate.

Arnim Thayer wrote:

And as the other s have said, I would lose the Command Good Outsider aspect of this ability.

That seems to be a common feeling. As an intensely lawful character, I don't see that a paladin would have too much of a problem with compelling the obedience of a good outsider in a just cause. LG is not all about freedom, after all; it's about obedience and necessity and everyone doing their part for the greater good even if they don't really want to.

Besides, it's just "charm." It's not total control. If I had written it as "makes a good outsider Friendly for 1 day" I rather think no one would have batted an eye, even though that is precisely what charm does. But I could be wrong.

It's not really a core part of the mechanic, just one I think is fitting and fun, but it could be easily dropped without hurting the rest of the ability.

Arnim Thayer wrote:

Good work, though.

Thanks.