Vult Wrathblades's page

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

Question is, is a +3 shield bonus and the ability to "dig in" and gain cover just like a tower shield fair as the 5th feat in a chain?

There are lots of other +AC feats, and I don't think any of them reach the +3 level. Much less +4 for cover, or total cover ala a tower shield which immunity from a number of attack.

I might suggest, making the feat give a +1 shield bonus to AC (and nonfunctional vestigial wings) available at level 1. And have the feat scale to +2 if the user also has the metallic wings feat.

Bold mine. I forgot to address that part. Absolutely couldn't be flying if you were gaining the cover bonus. Seems like a fair trade to give up flying for cover.

I am working on my character concept for Wrath of the Righteous and Ive come up with an idea I would like to bounce around here on the boards.

I full intend to take all of the wing feats leading up to metalic wings. I love the idea of my aasimar paladin lashing out with his wings and as I will be Guardian/Champion he will be able to grant an AC bonus to his allies. I see this happening as one of his wings flashing out to deflect an arrow or attack at the last moment.

It takes 4 feats to get the ability to make attacks with your wings. I was wondering what people would think about adding one more feat to add a shield bonus from your wings. I see it as working like a tower shield where you can thrust your wings forward into the ground and gain cover or fold your wings completely around you and gain cover. Of course this would not stack with any other shield bonus but you would gain the +3 without the need to hold a shield.

Question is, is a +3 shield bonus and the ability to "dig in" and gain cover just like a tower shield fair as the 5th feat in a chain?

Aasimar Paladin of The Three (Sarenrae, Iomidae, Torag) oathbound of vengeance and against fiends. Taking all of the feats to gain wings and being able to attack with them at level 13. 5 smite attacks seems pretty good. Also will be crafting magic arms and armor by infusing divine energy!

Ultimate Campaign, page 170 wrote:

Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items, just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item. For example, a rapier of venom has a price of 8,320 gp instead of the dagger of venom’s price of 8,302 gp.

In other words, yes you can have a Sunblade be a greatsword, or Celestial Armor made of mithral full plate, you must simply replace the costs of the mundane items.

I have always felt this was the RAI to magic items but it is great to see it in writing! Thank you for the reference.

I have always thought that Paladin/Inquisitor would be incredible. Combine a paladin's saves with Stalwart and not much is going to stop you. The utility of the Inquisitors spells and judgment tacked on top of smite is going to be sick as well!

That seems like a considerable cost to me.

Also add in it takes a full round to activate as many blades as you can.
That gives you 4 rounds of the extra power.
It eliminates your use of spell combat and spell strike, making you a flurry fighter for 4 rounds.
It would cost you 3 arcana to make it function properly.
Then it would cost 4 points from your pool.

And since Dancing is a +4 bonus the Magus couldnt even make this work until 13th level and the weapons would dance for 4 rounds.

What about a new arcana..

The magus can spend an additional point from his arcane pool to grant bonuses to an additional weapon. When the magus is using this arcana he can not use spell combat or spell strike during that time. The magus can take this arcana multiple times and each time he does it increases the number of weapons he can affect at once. This arcana can not be taken until 6th level.

This takes away some of his casting ability while he is using it and also makes him choose it as one or more of his arcana's if he wants it to work. He would also have to be 12th level and spend 3 points from hose pool to have the 3 weapons active. With dancing only lasting or 3 rounds correct?

-4 to attack for each aditional blade

only 1 blade added for each full round action

I get that you don't like the idea. But that suggestion completely eliminates the option.

Any real suggestion would be appreciated.

Thank you all.

Ok, so if we went for a home brew do you guys have any suggestions that would be fair? What would be a fair trade to make that work?

Bump..

Anyone here? anything?

Years ago there was a character in a few comics named Warcry.

This character wore what looked like full black plate mail, carried a large shield and wore 4 Katanas. His power was he could wield one of his blades and control the other 3 with his mind. This is incredibly fun sounding and I want to find a legal or fair way to make it work. I would be forgetting the shield all together and just focusing on the swords.

My first thought is a Magus and using the arcane pool to put dancing weapon on the blades. I know I could only do one at a time with a standard Magus. I was curious if there was an archetype, feat or spell that could make this legal.

Alternatively I was wondering what a fair home brew archetype would be for this?

I was thinking something like an ability that replaced something and allowed you to effect multiple weapons every so many levels. Like, at 5th level X Magus can affect an addition weapon when using his arcane pool. This expends another point from his pool. Every 5 levels after 5th X Magus can affect an additional weapon to a max 5 weapons at 20th level.

Any suggestions?

Alright, so what does everyone think it would cost to combine the Holy Avenger and the Sunblade?

What would it cost to add the Holy Avenger to the Sunblade and vice versa?

Azaelas what were the numbers you came up with? The base bonus and cost?

Also, what were the stats on said relic?

Thank you, I was hoping I wasn't looking at it in a biased way.

I am ok with leaving it at bastard sword damage, but I agree you are probably right that it should be greatsword damage.

Seems like the the 21,000 is correct for the price of the 'sun blade' quality though.

I agree final decision is on the DM. I just want to submit the request to him as something that makes sense and is not trying to game the rules in any way.

I want the short sword wording in the sword to be replaced by Long sword. This is because that is the weapon my character uses and because it is the favored weapon of Iomedae (one of the 3 gods he follows).

As for adding Holy.. Id be willing to pay for it from a +4 base but I think that is wrong. The only bonus the weapon has as a constant is +2 so it seems like that should be the base. Also, if you started from a +5 base the weapon could never be upgraded to a full +10, which also seems wrong.

Ask your GM, the standard policy is that specific items only come in one flavor.

This is what I plan to do. I would just like to have something solid to present to him when it gets to that point.

I did a search for this and found nothing definitive. So I will pose the question here and see if we can have some of the people who really understand the system chime in.

I want to craft a Sun Blade. I want to make it out of Cold Iron and I want to change the wording to say Long sword instead of short sword.

First, is this possible? And if so how much does it cost?

The next question, (and there was a small thread about this that really did not answer the question) is what about adding properties to such a weapon? Say I get enough gold to add Holy to it, any idea what my baseline is?

My Gut feeling is that you build it up from a +2 bonus. So, 25,335 - 4,000 (the cost of crafting a +2 weapon) = 21,335 is the cost of adding "sun blade" to an item.

Can anyone clear this up? It is something that if I am lucky will be happening for my paladin in the near future and I want to know exactly what I am doing.

As an aside: Has anyone thought about crafting a Holy Avenger Sun Blade for epic level play? Seems to me like the ultimate paladin sword... maybe even ranked as an artifact?

Don't worry, I'm sure we'll get a paladin protagonist before too long!

Stay tuned!

This makes me happy! I might suggest Vult would be a great name for this paragon of righteousness!!

@GeraintElberion.. I have started the online story, thank you for that link, it looks like it is going to be very good. I will try reading the novel when I can, I just wish the focus was on a Paladin.

@Shifty.. Damn how right you are! It sucks! but you are dead on!

Thank you for all the replies. This truly is a shame... the iconic paladin has been thrown to the wayside!

Everyone likes to read books or watch movies about bad guys who miraculously turn good, but no one likes to see the good guy who just is good, doing good things because they are the right thing to do....

I am curious if there are any PF novels focusing on Paladins? Paladins of Last Wall would be awesome to read about! Especially fighting at the World Wound!

There are none that affect the bond itself.

You can always get feats relevant to the weapon though.

Are you talking about things like weapon focus and improved crit?

Subject says it all I guess. I have looked every where and I have not come across anything. If there is such a thing could anyone point me in the right direction?

I would like to find any feats that expands the divine weapon bond for my paladin.

Subject says it all I guess. I have looked every where and I have not come across anything. If there is such a thing could anyone point me in the right direction?

I would like to find any feats that expands the divine weapon bond for my paladin.

I have been thinking about a Kensai build as well.

My first thought is to take level 1 as monk. This way my Kensai is adding his Dex, Int, and Wis bonuses to AC.

I also like the idea of a monk that decided to pick up a katana and master it. I just really wish weapon finesse worked for the Katana because I really really dont like scimitars.

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

[Insert Saints Quote]

I always figured them to be more along the lines of Inquisitors. Gunslinger multiclass now, maybe. (Or just with the grit feats.)

I can see inquisitors but definitely more paladin to me.

(Hate gunslingers in D&D, PF or any fantasy setting, gun powder has no place there!) /end rant.

There is one definitive code that embraces what a paladin should be and is how I try to play.

"Now you will recieve us.

We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry.

We do not want your tired and sick.

It is your corrupt we claim.

It is your evil that will be sought by us.

With every breath we shall hunt them down.

Each day we will spill their blood till it rains down from the skies.

Do not kill! Do not rape! Do not steal!

These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.

These are not polite suggestions. These are cause of behavior.

And those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost.

There are varying degrees of evil.

We urge you lesser forms of filth...

...not to push the bounds and cross over...

...into true corruption, into our domain.

But if you do...

...one day you will look behind you and you will see we three.

And on that day you will repent!

And we will send you to whatever ever god, you wish.

And shepherds we shall be for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.

Power hath descended forth from Thy hand.

That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.

So we shall flow a river forth to Thee,

and teeming with souls shall it ever be."

Most others spend their lives running from evil, the paladin spends his with evil running from him!

I hope I didnt dream this! I would have sworn I read an archtype for a feat somewhere, APG, UM or UC... that allowed you to use your divine bond on your weapon and your shield at the same time, splitting up the bonus however you like.

If Im crazy please tell me, or just give me a book and page number to reference if I am right.

Thank you.

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

leo1925 wrote:

No, since both archetypes replace aura of justice.

Ah totally missed that! I hate aura of justice anyway, thats probably why. Id be willing to get rid of it alltogether!

So you could tack on an oathbound to another archtype so long as it did not violate this rule?

Yes.

By the way why do you hate aura of justice? It's a very powerful ability.

I guess hate is a bit to strong of a word. I really just dont like it. It has grown on me a little but I am just still not sold on the idea of it. I would prefer something like Stalwart.

No, since both archetypes replace aura of justice.

Ah totally missed that! I hate aura of justice anyway, thats probably why. Id be willing to get rid of it alltogether!

So you could tack on an oathbound to another archtype so long as it did not violate this rule?

Basically I am thinking about making an Undead Scourge and having that character take the Oath of Vengence. Is this legal by RAW? Could I play that at a PFS game?

bump

Simple question, does the half smite bonus add to both CMB and CMD?

Sorry Fate, I was refereing to Zeke's post. Thank you for your clarification.

The second part of that sentence is important,

and receive a +20 competence bonus on
Perception checks to locate the target.

This is seperate from them being invisible and counts towards the target at all times, no matter what.

So, once you cast it on someone you gain a +20 on perception checks against them, period. Is this right?

The way I read this is that you gain a +20 to spot your target. The other gamers in my group see it as you only gain the +20 if they are invisible. I think the wording is poor but the intent is plain, you gain a +20 on nearly anything to do with perception against your target.

Any comments on which way this works?

So now you have a ninja in the group. Probably pretty good at stealth huh?

Find a way to turn him invisible, let him fly, reduce his size and let him walk right into the dragons ear and shread his brain. That should finish off any pesky colossal creatures.

Fallofcamelot has it right. The inquisitor lets you pick what you want to be great at while still being good at most everything else.

I just began running an Inquisitor of Asmodeous. He tracks down individuals who have failed to fulfill the terms of contracts with agents of Asmodeous. He tracks them down, slays them, wipes the blood off of his blade with their contract, burns it (Fire Domain) then uses the ashes when crafting his armor and weapons. So much fun!

Any other thoughts? Anyone?

Well in the product there are several ideas for handling this. The justicar specifically expects you dont have access to all judgements and gets bonus judgements known as class features. The standard is you start with 9 judgements and can gain more by either justicar class features or the feat 'Expanded Judgement' to gain more.

Ok, then that doesnt sound so bad. Thing is I still like the paladin best, there is just 2 parts of the Inquisitor that I think fit the paladin very well, better than the 2 apposing parts of the paladin.

I like the idea of a paladin without spells but that is really a large thing to give up. Getting judgments in place of that would be a good exchange, and you slightly slow down the progression of smite to balance it.

Also, like I said above, I dont like Aura of Justice one bit and I think it is slightly OP, so trading that for Stalwart which I think is an amazing (AMAZING!) ability just fits the concept of a paladin that much more.

I dont even propose this for me really. I know my gaming group would not go for these changes as they really dont like straying much from the book at all. I just bring it up because I think it fits and would be balanced.

Vult Wrathblades wrote:

I dont want to give up all auras, just justice for stalwart.

Remove spells and reduce progression of smite to gain judgment.
Remove Aura of Justice to gain Stalwart.

That is my proposal.

Stalwart with charisma to saves is quite strong, but I see that say goodbye to Aura of Justice is dire (I base this on the way my Paladin player plays).

Would the PC be able to use Judgements and Smites in the same attacks (if not activating them in the same round)?

Yea, I think the smite and judgment should stack, though probably take 2 rounds of swift actions to get them both going.

Well in this case, if you give up spells and auras, keep LoH, delay smite, you can take judgements.

Completely eyeballed (ask to more people) but it seems reasonable.

I dont want to give up all auras, just justice for stalwart.

Remove spells and reduce progression of smite to gain judgment.
Remove Aura of Justice to gain Stalwart.

That is my proposal.

You might want to have a look at the super genius inquisitor judgements pdf It includes at the end the Justicar, which is a full BAB version of the inquisitor focusing on judgements. It may give you alot of what you are looking for. Or at least give you a place to start.

That is interesting but I dont like the idea that the judgments can basically do everything. I like the limited list from the APG. Now, if you made feats that added optional judgments that could be interesting.

IMHO, if you want to get judgements, you must give up smites.

Smite-- > Judgement

Moreover, full BAB + 6th level spell seems to much

Thank you for repling but, I was not suggesting that you gain the spells of the inquisitor. I was saying you give up all spells, go with the slower progression on smites and for giving up that you gain judgments.

Any thoughts on giving up the Aura for Stalwart?

Reading the Inquisitor in the APG has given me a couple thoughts. First is I really like this class! Second is, would it be possible to make a Paladin archtype (paladin is my favorite class) with a couple parts of the Inquisitor without making it Overpowered?

I would only suggest 2 changes. Substitute out Paladin spells and maybe even move smite to a slower progression, such as Gain additional Smites at every 4th instead of every 3rd level.

For this the paladin would gain the Judgment ability with the same progression as the Inquisitor.

Next, I would get rid of Aura of Justice (which I have never liked, for flavor and feel it is OP) and replace it with the Inquisitor ability Stalwart.

Thoughts?

Ok, thank you all. I will treat it as a +5, honestly seems the most reasonable to me. Also means it will be some time before my character can upgrade it, but thats fine, atleast now I have a place to start.

We told you already, base is +2. Other abilities (including the Bane-like ability) cost 42 000 and doesn't have any other effect on the BASE weapon.

I have no idea what a Merciless enhancement is (I'll assume that you meant Merciful), meaning that base weapon would go from being a +2 Bastard Sword to a +2 Holy Keen Merciful Bastard Sword, which is a +6 weapon that costs 72 000. You payed 8000, which means you need 64 000 to upgrade it to your liking.

In total the item would cost its base 8335 (for a +2 Bastard Sword) + 64 000 (for Holy, Keen and Merciful enhancements) + 42 000 (for all other sunblade abilities), to a grand total of 114 335.

Ok, I guess the other posts got a little confusing as to the BASE, thank you.

As for Merciless, I am sorry I was refereing to the APG ability, Menacing... had to refer to my book, I remembered the name incorrectly.

Thank you all for your help here.

So does anyone disagree that the baseline should be +3 when considering where to start for upgrading?

Am I to low? to high?