Hand of the Acolyte - what is it supposed to do (identical to the Hand of the Apprentice issues, as far as I can tell).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Hand of the Acolyte - what is it supposed to do (identical to the Hand of the Apprentice issues, as far as I can tell).
Personally, I dislike the fact that both kinds of HotA can be used to wield a weapon at a distance using the caster's primary stat as if it were Strength for attack AND damage. To me that seems entirely too good.
Director of Games
|
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
It needs a ton of clarification. Mainly can it attack the first round, how far can it move in a round, can you channel sneak attack or even feats through it and more. It's a huge problem. :( I think it needs a rewrite from scratch to be really clear.
I agree that it is probably overpowered. At low level, that bonus to damage is huge, as is the to-hit bonus even. I would definitely agree with taking the damage bonus out. It hits as hard as a fighter at low levels, with no threat of direct retaliation.
It is a less attractive option at higher levels - but it should be! It's a 1st level ability. If you're relying on first level abilities at 15th level, I think something is wrong.
|
Director of Brand Strategy
|
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
By higher levels, however, the caster would have so many more spells to compensate for their lack of melee attacks and would theoretically be casting those instead of using this ability. I understand the HotA ability for wizards and sorcerers, as they are certainly not "weapons" combatants, but clerics are often built for battle, with their higher HD and BAB progression, not to mention the sheer number of buffs they can cast on themselves. I see HotA as a lower-level but almost equally powered version of Spiritual Weapon.
I agree. Attack Bonus-only seems reasonable, or Attack OR Damage (choose each round), but not both. It also seems bizarrely out-of-place when all the other "Special Abilities" of Schools/Domains/Bloodlines use CHARISMA/CONSTITUTION, yet the Hands apply the PRIMARY attribute (INT/WIS) - Actual melee classes are of course extremely Multi-Attribute Dependent, while this is letting the Casters apply their Core Attribute!
...I really think just having an at-will Mage Hand (with no combat capability) is FINE as a 1st level at-will ability, and still really useful... Do the "Universal" or "Magic" Schools/Domains REALLY need an uber-combat ability at 1st level?
Although I beleive the Hand DOESN'T allow you to make "Special Attacks", or benefit from Combat Feats, this ability DOES seem to make the Caster TOO good of a combatant, especially at 1st level - Why would the Caster EVER actually make a melee attack themselves, if the Hand of the Acolyte does it better? And being usable at range means they can keep themselves away from combat, and indeed, even avoid being noticed if they can stay hidden. Too much cheese...
|
I've been going back and forth on this, as well. I've got a Wizard with HotA in my playtest campaign, and it's nice to see him participating in combat more, rather than chucking a spell and then hiding around the corner. But at early levels (esp., say 1-3) he was killing as many mooks with his telekinetic longsword as either of the fighters.
What about revising the ability to grant Int (or Wis) bonus to hit, and 1/2 level to damage? That makes it slightly less awesome at low levels, about the same at high levels (when the Wiz is likely to have an Int bonus close to +10), with the added benefit (?) of capping the damage if the PC stops taking Wizard levels.
I still don't know why it should be applying the primary attribute, when all other School/Domains work off of Secondary Attributes...
I've been going back and forth on this, as well. I've got a Wizard with HotA in my playtest campaign, and it's nice to see him participating in combat more, rather than chucking a spell and then hiding around the corner. But at early levels (esp., say 1-3) he was killing as many mooks with his telekinetic longsword as either of the fighters.
What about revising the ability to grant Int (or Wis) bonus to hit, and 1/2 level to damage? That makes it slightly less awesome at low levels, about the same at high levels (when the Wiz is likely to have an Int bonus close to +10), with the added benefit (?) of capping the damage if the PC stops taking Wizard levels.
I was in favor of removing the damage bonus until I read this post. I'm in favor of 1/2 level to damage for this ability. It brings the ability in line for low level and gives it a little bit of scaling for higher levels.
It's important to note that this gives Wizards and Clerics a great recourse against SR. Even without the damage bonus, presuming the high level character chooses to wield a magic item with his HotA, it is definitely still functional at higher levels for this reason.
We still need clarification on actions to move and concentrate on this ability. If it was anything more marginal than every universalist wizard, it would be less of an emergency.
|
|
To be honest, I think that Hand of the X should be clarified in wording, and simply used as Mage Hand, at will. It's not so powerful that it can't be used at will (basically the ability to fight at range with a single attack).
You could add a damage bonus, but if you aren't careful, this can overshadow other attack options for the cleric at higher levels.
In the case of Hand of the Acolyte, my Domains thread recommends mage hand at will, using the following revised spell ...
Mage Hand
Transmutation
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance.
As a free action, you may draw a weapon from your person.
As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell’s range.
If you choose to, concentrating as a standard action, you may use mage hand to make a single strike per round with a melee weapon of up to 5 lb, using your caster level as your attack bonus, and dealing regular weapon damage. You may attack with a weapon on the round that mage hand is cast.
I like Archade's solution to this. Good, but not TOO Good...
I like Archade's solution to this. Good, but not TOO Good...
Ditto!
|
|
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
It needs a level-based damage bonus, like the various supernatural rays (perhaps also capped by ability score bonus, a la Power Attack).
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
*(Su) Turn this into a standard action cast to allow the wizard to magically throw a weapon you are equipped with at a target.
*The target must be within 25'+(CL*5)'*Apply your (INT+BAB-RangedIntoMelee) modifier to the attack roll
*Apply your (STR+DEX) to your damage roll.
*Weapon returns to you after your turn is over so that you don't provoke an AOO.
*Using this ability while threatened causes an AOO.
*Feats such as cleave and sneak should work.
*All ranged bonuses and penalties apply (ie. concealment, winds?)
How's that look? Adds a tiny bit of scaling, while taking away a lot of the complexities of the spell.
How's that look? Adds a tiny bit of scaling, while taking away a lot of the complexities of the spell.
I like most of the decomplexity a lot, particularly making it an 'attack' and letting it interact with other attack feats and options. I have some fighter 2/wizard 5's in the City of the Spider Queen playtest with mithril spiked chains - I'd like to see them able to use hand of the apprentice to do trip and disarm attempts.
I do have a couple of quibbles:
I think that the ability to use magical weapons is more likely to keep this ability useful at high levels.
*(Su) Turn this into a standard action cast to allow the wizard to magically throw a weapon you are equipped with at a target.
*The target must be within 25'+(CL*5)'
*Apply your (INT+BAB-RangedIntoMelee) modifier to the attack roll
*Apply your (STR+DEX) to your damage roll.
*Weapon returns to you after your turn is over so that you don't provoke an AOO.
*Using this ability while threatened causes an AOO.
*Feats such as cleave and sneak should work.
*All ranged bonuses and penalties apply (ie. concealment, winds?)How's that look? Adds a tiny bit of scaling, while taking away a lot of the complexities of the spell.
Weapon you're equipped with...meaning holding? Or just on your person? Weight limit? Size limit?
STR+DEX to damage? No way. Nothing else in the game does this (afaik), its completely at odds with d20 mechanic philosophy. And since it's magic, it doesn't make much sense, you're not actually throwing it. I personally don't like any damage bonus at all, given the assumed power level of the spell, but 1/2 level is as far as I think it needs to go.
I can see allowing sneak to work, but not cleave. I'd rather combat feats not apply at all.
But overall....this is much easier to deal with than "as Mage Hand with the following changes". But it's also like a beefed up version of Launch Bolt.
I'd almost rather the universalist wizard power just be changed entirely, to something less confusing. It's boring, but maybe just an Arcane Ray (works like all the other rays, just uses generic magic power). Or something not combat based but utility based.
But as we customize this (obviously with the wizard ability in mind) do we decouple the ability from the Magic Domain Cleric ability? Make that different?
|
|
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thoughts;
1) Limit the bonus to your class level or your Wis bonus, whichever is lower.A 1st level Cleric with a Wisdom of 18 will only get +1 to hit and +1 to damage. At 4th level, he'll finally get the full +4/+4 for his Wisdom bonus of +4. At 8th level, he'll still have just that +4/+4.
This would also apply to Hand of the Apprentice (but using Intelligence instead).
This way, it's still a good choice at low and mid-levels. Removing the bonus entirely would, IMO, make it not worth using, in which case, not worth the waste of a sentence to write into the book.
2) Clarify what is meant by 'ghostly hand.' Is the effect visible, unlike Mage Hand, which is just a telekinetic force? Can it be damaged, like an Unseen Servant?
3) Clarify whether or not it can attack in the round it is invoked. (I'd prefer that it could, but that would need to be stated in the text.)
4) Clarify whether or not it has to move 15 ft. per round before making an attack, can take a double move action, etc. (I'd drop the 15 ft. / round Mage Hand text and just say that it can attack someone or move something within 30 ft.)
5) Unrelated to this specific ability, but relevant to Supernatural Abilities in general, does this ability require a Verbal, Somatic or Material Component? Is it an 'act of will?' Will another party be able to tell that the Cleric (or Wizard) is using this ability if they don't actually pull a weapon off of their own body, but use it to untie a drawstring or mess with someone's belt pouch or snuff out a candle at range? Sounds great for 'poltergiest' effects, or stealing stuff without anyone seeing anything happen, or having anyway of connecting the moving objects to the dude in the corner sitting a mug of ale.
6) Since it evokes a spell-like effect (Mage Hand), should it be a Spell-like ability, or are all of these 1st tier Domain powers meant to be Supernatural abilities merely for consistency?
I think the point that a lot of posters are missing is that the 1st level abilities are designed to be functional for the career of the spellcaster, to make them functional when the spells run out. Admittedly, at higher levels this seems rare, but it can happen, especially if you're trying to encourage regular combat without resting after every other battle.
Main points:
1) The damage should scale. I like the damage where it is. If you want to tweak it so it's not so heavy overall, instead of adding BaB and Int (or whatever stat you choose), just make the attack and damage based on caster level. It equates to roughly the same thing, is easier to track, and scales better.
2) Make it only one attack. Considering the damage of 1), that should be enough regardless of what level you're at
3) Don't make sneak attacks or feats eligible. It's a spell like effect. You're already going to be able to cast spells on the weapon, not to mention the quality of the weapon itself.
Your other option is to frankly let it be fighter at range. Let it have caster level to attack, let attacks be iterative, and let sneak attack and feats be eligible. This way, gishes and tricksters can still put it to use, and if they really want to focus on this ability, that's less feats and spells they're devoting to being a straight mage.
Everyone gets to have fun. AND, as a bonus, if you're using HotA with option 2, you're NOT adding an ability bonus--giving you motivation to get up close and do some damage!
Don't forget spacing.
This has come up in the past. Can you send the weapon through occupied spaces? Can it occupy the space as another character while making it's attack? How does it fight in a crowded corridor?
A previous comment Jason made suggested that a medium sized weapon might require a 5' space to make its attack, while a small weapon like a dagger can co-exist with a character or NPC in an occupied space while attacking.
.this
.formatting
.is
.not pretty
Hand of the Apprentice
-Supernatural Ability
-Components: S, V
-Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
-Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
-Target: One Creature
-Duration: Instantaneous
-Saving Throw: None
-Spell Resistance: None
Wizard magically throws his currently equipped weapon that is magically guided by Hand of the Apprentice to strike a creature. The weapon returns as immediately after attacking the creature.
*Magic Weapon Bonus
*Attack Bonus = BAB + INT - RangePenaltyIntoMelee
*Damage = Weapon Damage + (CL/2)
Something like this?
<shrug> It's not a bad ability, but I doubt it's what Jason had in mind in the first place. I'd really like to hear what was intended for this ability from him, at this point.
yeah, some more thoughts from Jason would be good on this one. I have a player that believes the ability is fine as is. I, however, felt that int/wiz mod applied to both attack and damage was too good but instead of eliminating the damage mod altogether as some have suggested, I just made the damage = 1/2 level.
Seemed fair to me.
I guess to make things all fair... Hand of the Apprentice could be a physical ranged touch attack beam, like the other wizards... it's "boring" but balances it out with the other wizards.
I guess to make things all fair... Hand of the Apprentice could be a physical ranged touch attack beam, like the other wizards... it's "boring" but balances it out with the other wizards.
This is somewhat my point about the weapon occupying physical space.
I cross posted in both the Hand of Aprentice Thread and in this thread.. And it was generally ignored. That doesn't bother me, but Delslow, you've somewhat helped me articulate my point.
On the face of it, this ability too easily becomes a touch attack beam, whose damage is based upon the wizard or acolyte's melee weapon damage. It has the look of a melee attack without some of it's basic characteristics.
The attacker is rolling to hit against an AC instead of a touch attack, other than that it's basically a spell with no save, and damage based upon the weapon.
If it's a special ranged melee attack, it should be a special ranged melee attack. If its a spell like ability, then let it be a spell like ability. As it stands we have some odd hybridization here.
I do not think this ability should allow you to threaten, or to make AOOs.
I do however think that there should be some thought about the use of feats, if the wizard is proficient with it, disarming the weapon while in the air, and whether the weapon occupies a physical space (particularly if is a large or medium weapon).
I'm just saying that there is a line between what is a melee attack (albeit a funky one) and what is a spell or spell like ability. Wemight be weaving back and forth that line in a way that is not very consistant.
If no one sees it that way, I'm cool. I'm just a playtester speaking my peace.
This is somewhat my point about the weapon occupying physical space.I cross posted in both the Hand of Aprentice Thread and in this thread.. And it was generally ignored.
It's a good question I don't think any of us have a good answer for. It's not that you're being ignored - we're all being ignored.
It's a good question I don't think any of us have a good answer for. It's not that you're being ignored - we're all being ignored.
I think the term "ignored" is a bit harsh. It infers that the Dev team is actively not paying attention to our feedback. The correct term should be "not heard" or maybe they just "don't have anything to say regarding this situation."
Watcher: Yes, there's alot about this ability that is unclear.
I've wondered, for instance, if it's possible/ how to resolve a character that "disarms" the weapon from the magical force controlling it, or just tries to "pounce" on it, preventing it from moving...
I actually think this ability has alot of great flavor, but it needs to be toned down in certain aspect... maybe limiting the bonus(es) to Caster Level, so at 1st level, it's only +1? That would make the Elemental Domains better (although all except the Fire Domain I don't think actually match their Element, i.e. Water-Cold/Earth-Acid/Air-Electricity, which belong in Cold-Cold/Ooze-Acid/Weather-Electricity)
I think the term "ignored" is a bit harsh. It infers that the Dev team is actively not paying attention to our feedback. The correct term should be "not heard" or maybe they just "don't have anything to say regarding this situation."
And.. for all we know they're playing with it right now (figuratively) speaking to see what the bugs are. I didn't mean to imply that the Development Team was ignoring us all. I guess I just wanted to make sure that somebody heard what I was saying, and now I'm satisfied.
I'm just unsure about about making the effect immune to too many aspects of melee combat (like feats and Disarming).
On the other hand, it's too powerful if it can threaten and AOO at range.
Like I said, if it's a melee attack, it has to either retain *some* (if not all) of the characteristics that make up a melee attack.. or it just isn't one at all.
I think that's the design challenge of these abilities.
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Let's just revisit what Jason said. He admits its unclear. He feels it's overpowered - apparently mainly from the damage bonus.
I agree with both of these statements. As for further thoughts - all we have is that it's unclear regarding XYZ, but anything else, we have nothing - because we don't actually know how it's supposed to work.
Since no one has ever told us what was intended, I'm left to believe that they don't know either and want us to come up with (or rewrite) something we feel is balanced - because we can't playtest it RAW, it's too unclear.
So. I'll give another shot at this. Removing all preconceptions and just looking from a balance standpoint, this thing should work sorta on-par with the rays. So, player can cast and use the weapon within 30', starting first round. Concentration maintains position of the weapon, otherwise, the weapon instantly returns. Otherwise, the weapon may only move 30' per round. Using a primary skill for the to-hit bonus pretty much puts it roughly on par with touch attacks. An opponent attempting to interact with the weapon causes it to return. You must have LoS. It does not threaten. It does not use any feats (power attack, etc). It cannot make AoOs. It does not take up a square (like a tiny creature). Damage bonus CL/2. If not being used for an attack, it works identical to Mage Hand.
That is as simple as it gets. I'm pretty tired of the ambiguity of the spell and the lack of answers. Creativity suffers, but at least that's clear and fair. Now most of the schools have a nearly identical Magic Ray, Magic Bolt or Magic Weapon ability.
|
|
I'm beginning to think that the 'animate weapon' thing is overly annoying, from a rules standpoint.
I'd prefer a Mage Hand SLA combined with a generic magical attack of some sort.
From another thread talking about this;
If the flavor itself is an issue, I'd be fine with Alternate Class Featuring out the current version for a 'Hand of the Magus' version.
Hand of the Magus - SLA act as Mage Hand at will. As a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, when not otherwise using the Mage Hand ability, the Wizard can produce a visible pulse of magical force that vaguely resembles his own hand, performing a melee attack at close range using his Intelligence in place of his Strength at his normal BAB, and acting as if he had Improved Unarmed Attack, allowing him to do either 1d3 lethal or nonlethal Bludgeoning damage with each strike, modified by his Intelligence bonus. This ability does not threaten any opponent, nor can it be used to perform an Attack of Opportunity. The attack can be used to perform any other legitimate standard combat action that could be performed with one hand and does not require a sustained use of force over time, such as a Trip, Sunder or Disarm (but not Grapple). The pulse of battering force requires a standard to hit roll, modified by the Wizards Intelligence modifier, and can only be generated once per round, regardless of BAB (although it could be combined, in a full-round action, as part of the Wizards melee or ranged attack sequence, as he lashes out with his quarterstaff at a close foe, while throwing his Hand of the Magus at a more distant foe.
This version does less damage (no dancing weapons, just a pulse of force from his hand), and has a bit more versatility (being explicitly able to perform other actions). It also, IMO, 'feels' more magical, as wizards in various movies and books are sometimes seen to wave their hand at people and knock them down or fling their weapons from their hands, or just batter them with magical damage.
It's got much more utility than a standard 'blast,' as it also comes with an at will Mage Hand ability, is explicitly visible (so no worrying about Dex modifiers applying, free Sneak Attacks because the attack is invisible, etc.), has the option to do nonlethal damage, and, if the 1d3+Int bonus damage isn't adequate, it can be just bumped right up to 1d6+Int, and still work fine.
The +Int damage instead of scaling damage by level, as well as the melee (+Int bonus) attack roll requirement (instead of the superior ranged touch of most other specialist attack powers) helps to compensate somewhat for the increased utility of the Mage Hand feature.
And that's just one option. If there's one thing that makes sense, it would be that the 'Universalist' would have more than one option for 1st level class powers, unlike the Specialists. It should be easy enough to come up with one that better suits the 'theme' or 'feel' of a generic magical attack.
This ability still needs a bit of clarification. Beyond that, I am also leaning in the direction of this ability being a bit overpowered. I am thinking of removing the bonus to damage from the ability, but I kinda feel that this makes it a far less attractive option at high levels.
Clearly we still need guidance on a number of issues for HoA, such as movement, weapon size, type of action(s) required, etc., but at least I've looked at the math behind the attack and damage of HoA as written. I offer my thoughts here without the formal proof (to save everyone the long post of boring math). I also offer a couple alternate replacement abilities for the Universalist.
Regarding the bonus to attack and damage using INT mod, it obviously makes HoA attractive at lower levels and it might be argued that it's bonus is too good when compared in isolation to say the Evoker's ray power (variable energy; ranged touch; 1d6 + 1 per two levels). I do note that the Universalist does not get another specialist ability like the other schools, but does that alone make up for the increased attack and damage potential of HoA at early levels--probably not. Another thing to consider though is that HoA is a normal attack against AC, which effectively begins to reduce the damage of HoA as you look at it across all levels. Monsters tend to have ACs that go up and up, while their touch ACs remain in a range of 8-14. With a fixed damage adjustment, even with magical improvements to INT and with magic weapons, the ray becomes more reliable for doing damage at mid to later levels. Also, the HoA requires a physical weapon which the caster might not have available (unlike a ray) and the weapon is subject to DR.
So, in my opinion, HoA is "front-loaded" in that its better at lower levels and maybe not as much later on. As a Universalist you get HoA and not a 2nd ability and you are always required to have a physical weapon. Like Jason said, dropping the damage adjustment just might make this power not an attractive option.
My suggested solution, based on the math I've done is to set the attack to a BAB equal to the wizard's level (as suggested elsewhere on this board), but still add INT mod to the attack as well. This keeps HoA in line with the ray in terms of effectiveness. Under my recommendation, damage would be set equal to the weapon (which must be a weapon appropriate to the caster's normal size) with a bonus equal to +1 per two levels. This reduces the damage at early levels and keeps the hit rate closer to the ray. Change damage alone without out the attack adjustment just makes HoA weaken in the beginning, which might make people think its balanced when the changes aren't considered through levels 1-20.
As alternate Universalist abilities I offer the following:
Mage Missle: Like magic missle, but range 30', only one missile ever, damage = 2 plus 1 per two levels.
Mage Blast: Range 30'. Area 10'. Damage 2 plus 1 per two levels. Ref Save for 1/2.
Wizard Hand: Like Spectral Hand, but range 30', swift action to summon, no loss of hit points, no +2 bonus, only up to 3rd level spells. Ends after delivering a touch-spell.
Has the divine pass been completed?
|
Has the divine pass been completed?Today's the last day. I'm waiting to see what other revisions are forthcoming ...
Archade, please check back my old thread here... I have... questions!!! muhahahahah!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/connection/canadaOnta rioBurlingtonFRCampaign1PlayerReqd&page=1#789376
Yes, it does need a bit of clarificatiion in language(wording), as does a TON of other stuff. My thought on this was that the 'Hand of the Acolyte' provided a a spell tree of sorts for the Magic Domain.
- Mage Hand (Non-Combat; At-Will Orison)
- Hand of the Acolyte (Combat Capable; Domain Specific)
- Spectral Hand (Would replace 'Magic Mouth' (which is currently quite out of place and useless to a Cleric IMO); Ranged Healing Capable)
I posted more in-depth thoughts and interests in the Cleric - Domains Analysis and Suggestion post, page 2.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/clericDruidPaladin/clericDomainAnalysisAndSuggestions
So what was the official ruling?
grr..
grr..
Actually, if it makes you feel better- I'm sympathetic. I looked this thread up myself a few hours ago, wondering if there was going to be any comment.
All I can suggest that is perhaps, because Hand of the Apprentice is so similar, that they just tabled both abilities until they started the Wizard internal testing. (Which starts approximately in more three days.)
Anyway, you're not alone in wondering. I realize that doesn't change anything, but....
New to the game & boards..
I see there hasn't been a post here in a while but thought I would put in my two cents.
I am a bit confused on the use of this ability as everyone else is it seems.
I agree with the idea of scaling the bonuses, keeps it from being too tough early on.
My question, what is the limitation on the weapon? Must it be one handed and less than five pounds? My concern being that my cleric would then not be able to use his deity's favored weapon. From a balance standpoint it makes since to limit it so that there are not great swords flying all over the place, but was just curious. (I want my scythe...)
Since it would be limited to the "Magic" domain gods, possibly have it be able to only wield the deity's favored weapon. I like it for flavor, similar to spiritual weapon always taking the form of the deity's favored weapon.
Thanks for any input,
Kentaris
As far as I can tell, it is identical to the Universalist Wizard's Hand of the Apprentice, both of which are based on the cantrip Mage Hand. The weight limit of 5 pounds is hardcoded, so that usually limits it to one-handed weapons. (Mithril weaponry can reduce quite a few weapons to within this weight limit of course.) Also, one has to remember that it only ever makes one attack in a round, and that it requires concentration to maintain the effect in operation from round to round.
If either version of this ability were limited to a "favored weapon" only it would lose a great deal of its utility I suspect. I do believe that both versions should share a single base attack bonus progression as it otherwise skews the ability in favor of the cleric.
Otherwise it is effectively an at-will offensive-capable version of the cantrip with a fixed 30' range. Quite useful with some creativity - and one that can make one's villains a right pain in the rear for your players' characters. ^_^