Director of Games
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Welcome to the Errata and Typos thread for the Cleric, Druid, and Paladin portions of the classes chaper. If you spot any typos or rules that need errata in this section, please post them to this thread. Note that this is not a thread for discussing rules changes, only obvious mistakes or unclear rules. We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
The paladin's (new) Divine Bond and Holy Champion class features mention the paladin having a god, but this isn't explained anywhere else in the class description, or even how the paladin selects a deity.
IMHO, the rules for this could do with clarifying. For what it's worth, the text in the 3.5 PHB explicitly states that the paladin does not require a specific deity, and that the very righteousness of the paladin's cause is enough.
Chobbly
Domain Powers:
The Domain section lists the powers gained at "caster level" X.
Should this be "Cleric Level" X, or do effects that grant increased Caster Level (such as a Feat, Trait, or PrC's) allow access to these?
These Domain Powers should be listed on the CLASS advancement table if they are a Class Feature, NOT tied to Caster Level.
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CLERIC
Weapon and Armor Proficiency should state that the cleric is proficient with the favored weapon of their deity, if they have one.
DRUID
Weapon and Armor Proficiency neglects to mention the new Hide Shirt in the equipment section.
Bonus languages should probably include Elemental, since a druid can wild shape into one. Elven or Giant might be good additions as well.
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Cleric
Page 22. Under "Chaotic, Evil, Good and Lawful Spells," I suggest making clear that a cleric doesn't need to have a deity, i.e., add "(if she has one") after the phrase "her deity's". This is how the druid description reads.
Druid
Page 23. I suggest expanding Weapon and Armor Proficiency to make clear that usually metallic armors composed of nonmetal materials (e.g., dragonscale) are fair game too.
Page 24. Why is Nature Bond an extraordinary ability? One of the two options is to take a cleric domain, so this should be (Ex or Su).
Under the Nature Bond description, shouldn't the domains be capitalized? The table on page 21 capitalizes them.
Paladin
Page 31. The word "Good" after "Lawful" shouldn't be capitalized.
Page 32. I don't think Divine Bond should be a spell-like ability. It strikes me as Su.
Page 33. It seems like there was a conscious choice to remove the verb "use" when describing Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Neutralize Poison, etc. E.g., the text reads "a paladin can spend two uses of her lay on hands ability to remove disease." However, Detect Evil over on page 31 includes the word "use," which reads better: "At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell."
Pg 32: Paladin (Aura of Courage): Only the effect to allies should be canceled when the Paladin is asleep or unconscious. She should be immune to fear even when asleep.
Pg 34: Paladin (Aura of Righteousness): Same critique as Aura of Courage. She shouldn’t lose her DR or her immunity to compulsion spells when asleep.
The text of the Animal Domain isnt' so clear:
it doesn't really specifically say that you can only summon the ANIMAL (/dinosaur?) creatures on the appropraite SNA lists. I assume you AREN'T supposed to be able to use the Domain Ability to summon Elementals, Unicorns, Satyrs, etc... but this should be made clear.
I noticed this while comparing the Druid AC to the Animal Domain ability in this thread. That discussion suggested to me that the tiers/lists for Animal Companion AND/OR SNA should/could be modified. Particularly, the WOlf being on the first tier of both AC/SNA1 is VERY powerful, ESPECIALLY for the Animal Domain, since the Wolf lasts as long as they want, and they can summon a new one each hour. I felt that introducing a weaker first tier, more comparable to the Familiar list could help this situation...?
Here are a couple of things I found. I apologize if they have already been mentioned.
Cleric
- Most things have been addressed in other threads.
Druid
- 1. Wild Shape - Is there a HD limit on shapes taken? PHB 3.5 limited creature HD to Druid level.
- 2. Animal Companion - Share Spells - Must animal companion be within X feet of Druid to benefit from spell?
Paladin
- SPELLS - Key ability for spell casting is CHA not WIS, remove Paladin from WIS description and add him to CHA description.
- DIVINE BOND - Can the +1 enhancement come from the Divine Bond?
- Does the mount appear with the appropriate riding tack? For a Large size Paladin does a correctly sized mount appear?
- SHARE SPELLS - See Druid entry.
"Extra Turning" feat - On page 86 the feat might be better titled as Extra Channel Energy. Essentially there does not appear to be any type of turning is PRPG.
- "Improved Turning" feat - Possibly changed to "Improved Channel Energy"?
Silverhair: Read the Wildshape/Shapechange spells more.
WS no longer give you the actual stats of X creature, you now gain Stat Bonuses of your choice (and can choose special abilities, like movement type), which are dependent on your Level...
I wasn't flipping through the book. I was just commenting on what was available in the areas without chasing down any further information. I am trying to go through it methodically, taking each section as is and commenting on that section.
Is that not one way to do it?
Sure, it's important to get feedback from as wide a range of people as possible,
and not everyone wants to read the whole rulebook to fully understand it from every angle
(it IS a hodgepodge, info is in wierd places, and basic issues not addressed)
The WS issue you asked about, though, HAS been addressed by completely departing from SRD...
(my only issue with it now is whether the WS bonuses should be "inherent" bonuses)
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The paladin's (new) Divine Bond and Holy Champion class features mention the paladin having a god, but this isn't explained anywhere else in the class description, or even how the paladin selects a deity.
IMHO, the rules for this could do with clarifying. For what it's worth, the text in the 3.5 PHB explicitly states that the paladin does not require a specific deity, and that the very righteousness of the paladin's cause is enough.
Chobbly
I just wanted to quote this because of how important it is and how much I agree with it. The text needs to remove instances of abilities that say the power comes from a god for those of us who play our paladins as devotees of a righteous cause, and not some cleric with a bit of warrior thrown in.
I thought that the choice of he/she, his/her, etc. was supposed to match the gender of the iconic character representing the class under discussion, a convention I really like. Under Nature's Bond in the Druid class description, the pronouns are inconsistent: "... the druid's effective cleric level is equal to his druid level." It seems to me that should be her druid level.
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I'm begining to think this was an accident. in 3.5 a paladins channel energy was this:
She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier.
And in beta it was changed to this:
She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + her Charisma modifier.
If this was an intentional choice then sorry for posting it and I redirect you to this thread but if my budding suspicions are correct and this was accidental then I just wanted to make sure it was caught.
Page 183 - I find this to be an unclear rule, more specifically the "5-foot increments" portion of the ability.
Does it mean you teleport 5-feet at a time until you reach your destination...
Or does it mean if you need to teleport 23 feet you instead go 25 feet? If this is the case does this really need to be mentioned considering the entire movement system is based on a '1 inch sq. = 5 feet'?
Travel Domain
1st Dimensional Hop (Su): You can teleport up to 10
feet per caster level per day as a swift action. This
teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments
and such movement does not provoke attacks of
opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures
with you, but you must expend an equal amount of
distance for each creature brought with you.
The description of the Channel Energy class ability should give a page reference to the page in the combat section where it is spelt out how to use it.
Paladin Update:
p1 possible error: right column, 2. section, deflection bonus, "...CHARISMA BONUS..."
p1 unify: Divine Health and Monk's Immunity should have the same names - they do the same
p3 possible error: Armor of Faith, delete last sentence
inconsistency: Cleric's aura rule should be same rules as for the Paladin's Aura
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The paladin's (new) Divine Bond and Holy Champion class features mention the paladin having a god, but this isn't explained anywhere else in the class description, or even how the paladin selects a deity.
One amusing consequence of this omission is that a paladin could potentially worship a Chaotic Evil god. After all, only Clerics have alignment restrictions based on their deity's alignment.
The paladin's (new) Divine Bond and Holy Champion class features mention the paladin having a god, but this isn't explained anywhere else in the class description, or even how the paladin selects a deity.One amusing consequence of this omission is that a paladin could potentially worship a Chaotic Evil god. After all, only Clerics have alignment restrictions based on their deity's alignment.
As soon as you find an explanation how that has any hope of combining with a lawful good alignment I might agree with you.
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One amusing consequence of this omission is that a paladin could potentially worship a Chaotic Evil god. After all, only Clerics have alignment restrictions based on their deity's alignment.As soon as you find an explanation how that has any hope of combining with a lawful good alignment I might agree with you.
Same way it works in the real world, where followers of very law-imposing and very moralistic dieties commit acts of atrocity, terror and 'moral suasion' on each other.
If a bunch of CE people can follow a LG deity through interesting interpretations of their faith's teachings, I'm sure a LG Paladin could find something to take from the teachings of Rovagug, perhaps convincing himself that he represents the 'true Rovagug' who is all about purification and wiping the scourge of the unclean from Golarion, but has been frustrated from his true mission by the other gods, who feared the cleansing he represented, as it meant the loss of their powerbase and their necessary replacement by the long-promised new perfect world, sinless and pure.
Paladins of non-Chaotic non-Evil deities (who aren't necessarily LG), such as Abadar, would make more sense, 'though.
The paladin's (new) Divine Bond and Holy Champion class features mention the paladin having a god, but this isn't explained anywhere else in the class description, or even how the paladin selects a deity.One amusing consequence of this omission is that a paladin could potentially worship a Chaotic Evil god. After all, only Clerics have alignment restrictions based on their deity's alignment.
This was previously included in the "Description" section (now Chapter 8) under Alignment. It does not appear to be there any longer.
However I agree with raven, perhaps it was somewhat intentional. To allow Lawful Good Paladins of perhaps Chaotic Good or Neutral, or even Lawful Evil gods. I'm not seeing Chaotic Evil, CN, or NE though. But if you can work up the character concept, why not?
(Note: I'm perfectly happy with the restriction being put back in place).
all sounds more like a paladin on the way to become a blackguard, since I consider knowingly worshipping an evil deity an evil act.
A paladin of the Demon Prince of Lies would be interesting though...
maybe using the paladin as a pawn to frustrate the plots of a competing Demon Lord, that would be just... evil lol
Not sure granting the power of goodiness is within a demons power, but I am sure there is a way around that.. maybe actually channeling the powers of a divine relic of goodiness for his twisted scheme, or somehow stealing divine power from the good deities.
*coughs* I am getting carried away ^_^
The Paladin's Aura of Good ability needs to be cleaned up to match the wording of the Cleric's Aura ability, or at least Detect Good (which the Paladin's ability references) should explictly state that a Paladin uses the 'Cleric' line on the Detect Evil chart.
Also, it should be stated that a Paladin/Cleric of a Good Deity has their auras stack, not overlap.
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I'm confused with the wording for the Evil Domain Level 1 ability :
Touch of Evil (Su): You can cause a creature to
become sickened as a melee touch attack. While
sickened, the target is treated as good-aligned for
the purposes of spells with the evil descriptor. This
effect persists for 1 round against evil and neutral
creatures. Against good creatures, this effect
persists for 3 rounds. Once a creature has been
affected by touch of evil, it is immune to its effects
for 1 day.
So what exactly is the effect here? If your target is evil or neutral - it is treated as good for 1 round.
BUT if your target happened to be GOOD it gets to be treated as GOOD aligned for 3 rounds ...
But if a creature is good doesn't it get treated as good all the time?
So what is the purpose of this ability?
OOPS I think I just puzzled it out - the ability Touch of Evil inflicts the sickened condition on the target for 1 round (or 3 if good). In addition it also makes the target be treated as good aligned if it already isn't for the purposes of evil spells.
I think that for the point of clarity in the rules if you are referring to an inflicted condition (such as sickened, dazed, stunned, slept etc.) then either the word condition or a unique font indicating that it is a condition be used.