Not me.
But I have recently bought some 3e FR hardcovers (never was into them before) at my local comic store.
75% off is too good to pass up. :)
Not I the realms is dead as a wotc product for me. That reanimated corps with FR skins stretched over it is not the realms to me.
I enjoyed 3e as an encyclopedia for teh books and for the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series of games, which is most of my exposure to FR. I will probably buy it because FR feels like home after so many years videogaming in it. I worry about the chanmges wrought by the spellplague and the new art design, but on the other hand, WOTC says the new art direction will be like Roger Dean's album covers for Yes, and that's great gaming music and one of my fave bands, with some of my fave cover art, so it might be fun if it feels all 70s, Wizards (the Ralph Bakshi movie) and Heavy Metal (the music and the movie) in 4e.
Honestly, it sounds like the changes fixed everything I never liked about the Realms. The preview article about Gontal is fantastic. I've already pre-ordered every 4E book coming out this year. Now I just need to find some players...
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I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.
Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.
Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.
Wow thats sucks. Although im not sure how they can threaten legal action to stop you playing a game you payed for so is legaly yours.
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As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.
Seriously doubt that is legal. If you want to make a statement using your wallet thats certainly anyones right but it does not some how give one the right to steal WotCs stuff.
To use a parallel example lets suppose I was offended by Hook Mountain Massacre. Let us suppose that I considered that issue essentially some kind of gore porn. I'd obviously have the right to refuse to buy Paizo products until they straightened up and only published PG 13 material. However I can't ethically use the fact that I believe they are creating morally questionable material as an excuse to steal their work and not pay for it.
I feel this is the same thing. You can object to what WotC has done to the Realms and thats fair enough but objecting to what they have done does not entitle you to steal from them.
Now I'd like to emphasize that I personally liked Hook Mountain Massacre and, in general, am completely on board with Paizo's design choices to present extremely edgy material.
Actually, I don't see how photocopying 10 pages of the swordmage entry so your freind can make a swordmage without having to shell out 30-40 bucks is illegal. If it is, there's no way they could enforce it. How is it different from letting your friend borrow your copy to make his character? Certainly, that's not illegal. If your are photocopying the pages and selling them on ebay, that would be a different story.
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It's grey piracy, but still piracy. Hard to detect, even harder to prosecute, but still illegal. It's just as illegal as PDFs off of BitTorrent.
The point is the word "borrowing". Borrowing a friend's copy implies you're going to give it back and thus not keep it. If you xerox it then destroy the copy, you've borrowed access to the information in the book and then gave up access to it. That's not blatantly illegal, but if you keep that copy to use more than just the one time, it's obtaining a benefit from a product without paying for it, and thus theft.
I'm starting my first 4e game this weekend. Pending the outcome, I'll buy the book.
I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.
Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.
Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.
Wow that is harsh, the only company that comes close to that sort of action is Games Workshop who have a 'If your army figures aren't the latest then you can't use them!!' Policy in the Stores.
I wish I'd been aware of that before I bought the 4E, I may have even reconsidered!!I definitely won't be buying the FR 4E campaign book. I've got the origional books from AD&D Realms but did get the 3rd ed and 3.5 ed but from what I've heard there have been terrible things done to the setting with 4E, so I'll be going Pathfinder for Realms now. I'll start a different campaign world for 4E.
Wow thats sucks. Although im not sure how they can threaten legal action to stop you playing a game you payed for so is legaly yours.I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.
Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.
Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.
He mentions "raising thousands of pounds for charities". Not sure what he means, but if they were setting up some kind of Living campaign to make money, even to just donate it away, I'd think that would be skirting kinda close to things.
I was going to play 3PF and Golarion when all the books come out, and had decided to go that way a few months back.
I've been an FR DM almost since the beginning (and GH before that), and I have been in love with the setting ever since the original Grey Box.
As I heard more and more about the 'New Realms', I felt nothing but disgust, and was sure Golarion was right for me. Then something incredible happened...
A bunch of my fan-created material for FR became canon! Locations and names I made up on one of my maps were all added in to the official world by WotC in an article on Cormyr. I was floored, to say the least.
Anyhow, I felt that I could no longer bad-mouth 4e FR without at least giving it a shot, and I haven't really been coming around here anymore.
Then they released two more Preview articles yesterday and today, and I realized that I allowed my ego to cloud my judgment. Yesterday's article supposedly was written by Ed (and one other), but he has either lost his touch, or they editted his contributions into watered-down crap. As soon as I came to the word 'Dragonborn' I had to stop reading.
And todays excerpt talks about how the Harpers were disbanded - the very last thing that set FR apart from any other generic fantasy schlock. I felt like Tommy Lee Jones in Coal Miner's Daughter -
"There's nothing for me here anymore, Loretty, septin' a chest full of coal dust and bein' an ol' man by the time I'm forty"
Well, I'm 45, so I guess I stuck around too long.
Now I'm back here to see whats what, because I can't stomache the one and only setting currently available for 4e.
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It's grey piracy, but still piracy. Hard to detect, even harder to prosecute, but still illegal. It's just as illegal as PDFs off of BitTorrent.
The point is the word "borrowing". Borrowing a friend's copy implies you're going to give it back and thus not keep it. If you xerox it then destroy the copy, you've borrowed access to the information in the book and then gave up access to it. That's not blatantly illegal, but if you keep that copy to use more than just the one time, it's obtaining a benefit from a product without paying for it, and thus theft.
I meant borrowing a copy of the book, not the photocopied pages. Who hasn't done this? You buy a splatbook, and some of your friends want to look at it. Maybe they see a feat they like , and use it for their character instead of paying the full price of a book. If this is illegal, then I guess playing a DVD at home for your friends to watch should be illegal too. They got a benefit out of it, but they didn't buy their own copy. That's just ridiculous. Besides, I'm sure the entry for the swordmage, or the new races falls under the 10% mark that is supposedly the legal limit.
I meant borrowing a copy of the book, not the photocopied pages. Who hasn't done this? You buy a splatbook, and some of your friends want to look at it. Maybe they see a feat they like , and use it for their character instead of paying the full price of a book. If this is illegal, then I guess playing a DVD at home for your friends to watch should be illegal too. They got a benefit out of it, but they didn't buy their own copy. That's just ridiculous. Besides, I'm sure the entry for the swordmage, or the new races falls under the 10% mark that is supposedly the legal limit.
From what I understand, there is no "legal limit", but simply a case by case determination.
That said, in some instances playing a DVD in your home IS illegal. What we're talking about isn't a "WotC is going to call the cops on you for grand theft!" type stuff here, but small petty crimes that aren't prosecutable. Are they a crime though? Of course.
For some people, that's an issue, for some it isn't. I'd avoid describing it as perfectly legal or reasonable though.
Cheers! :)
PS: IANAL, for what it's worth.
Because of the ridiculous changes to the Realms, I have sworn off buying all future products from WotC. They've completely destroyed something I loved, and they've insulted longstanding supportive fans in the process. So IMNSHO they can live without my financial support.
No more FR materials.
No more game materials.
No WotC internet or computer game materials.
No more novels.
Nothing.
I bought a 3E Realms hardback last year after picking up D&D again after a 12 year absence thinking "Ooh, one of the two official campaign settings, let's have a looky-loo", and while I thought some of the setting was interesting, it felt like the whole map had been filled in for me already.
Not having spent thousands of dollars on books, the barrier to entry was too high. It felt like it was just aimed at people who already knew who Drizzt and Elminster and the rest were, and not for someone joining or rejoining the hobby for the first time.
So I didn't like it. I felt left out and excluded.
I hope that the new version won't leave me feeling that way. So I shall definitely be buying a copy.
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Wow thats sucks. Although im not sure how they can threaten legal action to stop you playing a game you payed for so is legaly yours.I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.
Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.
Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.
My understanding is that it was because of the mix of publically-promoted organised play with non-OGL material (FR).
WotC's handling of it cost them quite a bit of goodwill among a lot of people I know in the UK, particularly given that many people had developed a fairly negative opinion of them since they stopped running GCUK and started running major M:tG events that clashed (or nearly-clashed) with existing major UK cons.
Yeah, I'll buy it. The swordmage, drow, and genasi look good, and the fluff previews look chock full of ideas.
Can't get worked up about the fluff changes: I like to see new versions of old things. I've still got old versions of FR on the shelf if I want to use them, and I've played in many contradictory versions of Greyhawk - without any impairment of my enjoyment of those games.
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I'm actually looking forward to the Loudwater write-up and the adventure it is supposed to have.
Back in 1e, we based our campaign out of Loudwater there on the edge of the High Forest.
I think the first adventure I ran near there was The Pit from an old Dungeon...and then in a restart with new PCs I ran the Hunt in Great Ellendil also from an old Dungeon.
Laeknir, why don't you hit Ama and grab a used copy when they begin circulating, like I probably will? That way you can see exactly what they are doing before you slam the door, and you're probably not putting money in WotC's pockets. Personally, I am not expecting too much, as I am not a 4E fan or a big Realms fan, but maybe there will be some pleasant surprises. I'm sure there will be something of value in there.
I'm not interested in the new age "paper video game" 4.0. So no FR 4.0 for I and I.
I'm not interested in the new age "paper video game" 4.0. So no FR 4.0 for I and I.
It doesn't sound like you've played 4th Edition, or have even taken a good look at it. The whole "paper video game" thing has been debunked about a million times as utterly short-sighted.
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It's really all about how you perceive the game. There's nothing to really "debunk", so much as there are people that have played it, and it doesn't suit them because, to them (and this is a matter of their own opinion), it feels like a tabletop video game. I can honestly see where they're coming from, though my dislike of the edition is more along the lines of that it feels "different", and thus doesn't fit my play style. It's not a bad system, but it's not what I'm looking for. Plus, their treatment of FR and what the fans seem to really want as opposed to what the vocal minority wanted is just...horrid, in my opinion. I've seen people say that the Time of Troubles ruined FR for them, and I can sorta see where they're coming from there too, though I started playing in the Realms just after this period, but the Spellplague is even more dramatic and changing. Once again it's a matter of feel...and, if the excerpts from the upcoming book are any indication, the setting feels like its been drained of a lot of its vibrancy and flavor. I might very well be wrong of course, and I intend to look at least, though I won't buy it unless I'm absolutely sure I want it.
It's really all about how you perceive the game. There's nothing to really "debunk", so much as there are people that have played it, and it doesn't suit them because, to them (and this is a matter of their own opinion), it feels like a tabletop video game.
And this is an unfounded impression that, more often than not I've found, is fueled by little more than someone else telling them that 4th Edition is like a tabletop video game. When the debate actually occurs and people are forced to actually examine how the game plays and where its design decisions were derived from, the conclusion is pretty much invariably that the impression of it playing like a video game is unfounded. At the very least, it is no more present than it ever was in previous editions of the game.
It's really unfortunate that this comparison came into existence to begin with. Rather than choose to view the design choices as a natural evolution of game design philosophy that has, to a certain extent, been shared by video game developers, those detractors of 4th Edition instead mistakenly assume that the game has stolen elements from video games and now actually plays like a video game, whether or not it really does. Having played and run the game, the similarities to video games are skin-deep at best. You still have all the iconic elements of D&D - sitting around a table, role-playing and rolling dice with a bunch of friends while participating in an epic adventure tale.
I own almost every Forgotten Realms book since the original grey boxed set which I picked up in the late 80's, but I will not be buying the 4th edition campaign setting. Although I do not intend to play 4th edition, I would have continued to purchase 4th edition FR products had they not made the wholesale changes to the Realms that they did.
I'm not interested in the new age "paper video game" 4.0. So no FR 4.0 for I and I.It doesn't sound like you've played 4th Edition, or have even taken a good look at it. The whole "paper video game" thing has been debunked about a million times as utterly short-sighted.
Hey i'm honored that you actually read what I posted, seriously. I usually get ignored. Anyways though I didn't mean to get that whole 3.5/4.0 thing going on again. Some people are going to like it and some aren't nothing I or anyone else is going to change that, but on my side It's just that to me it seems like hasbro is moving the game deliberately towards a place I don't like. I'm also enlightened enough to know that it's an internal problem with me. In the future maybe I'll have a different opinion that what I do now. Looking back and all that. But for now i'm a creature driven by my illogic and emotional response to "progress" I suppose so for 4.0 I think I'll take a pass. Oh and if something I said doesn't make a lot of sense well pardon I cause I'm on a lot of sleepy pills.......zzz.
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So far my only plans for picking up 4EFR is by the way of Blackstaff Tower and the other books in the "Ed Greenwood presents Waterdeep" stuff.
And for those interested Blackstaff Tower and Mistshores will both be released at GenCon (which is a couple weeks from their normal release date) and you can find a little info and a link to a sample chapter from BT here
Hey i'm honored that you actually read what I posted, seriously. I usually get ignored. Anyways though I didn't mean to get that whole 3.5/4.0 thing going on again. Some people are going to like it and some aren't nothing I or anyone else is going to change that, but on my side It's just that to me it seems like hasbro is moving the game deliberately towards a place I don't like. I'm also enlightened enough to know that it's an internal problem with me. In the future maybe I'll have a different opinion that what I do now. Looking back and all that. But for now i'm a creature driven by my illogic and emotional response to "progress" I suppose so for 4.0 I think I'll take a pass. Oh and if something I said doesn't make a lot of sense well pardon I cause I'm on a lot of sleepy pills.......zzz.I'm not interested in the new age "paper video game" 4.0. So no FR 4.0 for I and I.It doesn't sound like you've played 4th Edition, or have even taken a good look at it. The whole "paper video game" thing has been debunked about a million times as utterly short-sighted.
That was...actually...kind of a surprisingly mature response.
Alright then. Moving on.
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I must admit, I have never been an FR fan, Greyahwk was always my fantasy setting of choice and now that its lost support I will be buying the Pathfinder and making it my new standby.
I only like ot have one setting of each flavor,which is why,for different occasions and playstyles, I like Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Eberron, in addition Greyahwk/Pathfinder.
I don't Buy Forgotten realms...
Buy I will be getting Eberron when it comes out..Most likely that will be my Only 4e Game. *If i ever find a group*
I have to admit to being curious about that too.
As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.
The PHB 2 might have all the details anyway if you'd rather not touch the 4e faerun campaign setting.
Strange never thought i'd actually ever play 4e let alone suggest this...
Well it makes interesting reading anyway.
The PHB 2 might have all the details anyway if you'd rather not touch the 4e faerun campaign setting.
Strange never thought i'd actually ever play 4e let alone suggest this...
Well it makes interesting reading anyway.
I'm pretty close to certain we won't see a reprint of the Swordmage in the PHB II. Most of the classes in there have been announced/deduced, and it is unlikely they're going to reprint Swordmage.
Cheers! :)
As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.
The PHB 2 might have all the details anyway if you'd rather not touch the 4e faerun campaign setting.
Strange never thought i'd actually ever play 4e let alone suggest this...
Well it makes interesting reading anyway.
Actually, as far as I know all the player-oriented crunch (like classes) is going to be printed in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, not the Campaign Setting. So buy that and use all the delicious crunch it contains.
I had no interest in playing the Realms in 3.5 at all, now I do with all the changes the Spellplauge and Time Jump has brought.
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Actually, as far as I know all the player-oriented crunch (like classes) is going to be printed in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, not the Campaign Setting. So buy that and use all the delicious crunch it contains.
Yes, I think the publishing goal of the Player's Guide is to make it as appealing to all players as possible (ie. outside of Realms players too).
Now that a few folks have the book and have been giving answers about it, the setting absolutely seems gutted---however, that's only if you consider it a continuation of what has come before (which is how WotC is ridiculously marketing it).
However, I'm now comfortable with thinking of the 4e FRCG as a requel that may seemingly possess ties to what has gone before but is in fact a new setting and a re-imagining of the Forgotten Realms.
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Now that a few folks have the book and have been giving answers about it, the setting absolutely seems gutted---however, that's only if you consider it a continuation of what has come before (which is how WotC is ridiculously marketing it).
However, I'm now comfortable with thinking of the 4e FRCG as a requel that may seemingly possess ties to what has gone before but is in fact a new setting and a re-imagining of the Forgotten Realms.
I would actually have far less of a problem with a lot of fluff changes in FR and beyond if they had taken this route.
I would actually have far less of a problem with a lot of fluff changes in FR and beyond if they had taken this route.
Likewise. If it was a "New Realms," and the "Old Realms" was still going to have some novels (even if most would go to the new), or for that matter, even if it wasn't, but they didn't basically spit on me and laugh by saying it would preserve the feel of the Realms and such, I'd have much less problem with it. Even if I may not like it, I wouldn't be actively antagonistic toward it either...
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well after talking to people who have the book on the wizards forums it seems to me that they took the realms and beat it with the ugly stick. A lot of the current fans are gonna hate it because they have gutted a lot of the setting and it probably wont attract that many new players because it is still to complicated (its simply went from rocket science complicated to open heart surgery complicated.)
for example the list of gods
Deities of 4e Realms:
Greater Gods:
Amaunator: Sun
Asmodeus: Sin
Bane: Tyranny
Chauntea: Life
Corellon: Fey
Cyric: Strife
Ghaunadaur: Abominations
Gruumsh: Savagery
Kelemvor: Death
Lolth: Drow
Moradin: Dwarves
Ohgma: Knowledge
Selune: Moon
Shar: Shadows
Silvanus: Nature
Sune: Beauty
Tempus: War
Torm: Law
Gods: Serve the greaters
Angharraadh: Wisdom
Auril: Winter
Bahamut: Justice
Berronar Truesilver: Family
Beshaba: Bad Luck
Garl Glittergold: Protection
Gond: Craft
Ilmater: Suffering
Loviatar: Pain
Luthnic: Caves
Meilikki: Forrests
Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty
Sseth: Serpents
Talona: Plague
Tiamat: Greed
Tymora: Good luck
Umberlee: Sea
Waukeen: Merchants
Zehir: Poison
Exarchs/ Demigods: Ascended mortals mainly, some have mortal worshippers
Abbathor
Arvoreen
Baervan Wildwanderer
Bahgtru
Baravar Cloakshadow
Berronar
Brandobaris
Callarduran Smoothhands
Clangeddon Silverbeard
Cyrrollalee
Deep Seshalas
Dugmaren Brightmantle
Erevan Ilesere
Fenmarel Mestarline
Fzoul Chembryl: Sevice to Evil
Garagos
Hoar
Hruggek
Jergal: Fatalism
Labelas Enoreth
Lliira
Maglubiyet
Malar
Marthammor Duin
Milil
Obould: Warriors
The Red Knight: Tactics
Sharess
Shargaas
Shevarash
Shiallia
Siamorphe
Solonar Thelandrira
Thard Harr
Uthgar
Valkur
Vaprak
Vergadain
Primordials:
Akadi
Bazim-Gorag
Grumbar
Istishia
Kossuth
Seven Lost Gods. (Includes Dendar, Kezef, and Borem of the Boiling Mud)
Archdevils: One for each of the nine
Baalzebul
Bel
Belial
Dispater
Glasya
Levistus
Mammon
Mephistopheles
As you can see from deities/demigods alone they still have over 80+ of them which is probably still going to be as difficult to remember when there was 100+ of them
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Never read the books, never used any FR material for any game I was involved in. Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 back stories are as deep as I ever got into the FR. Despite the lack of FR knowledge/history I have learned to dispise the FR mostly because of all the FR fanboys,(I want to play a harper, I want to play a Drow swordmaster/theif/wizard, etc.)always trying to change any campaign, even in the middle of an adventure, to become exactly like one of the FR books they just read. Now if its true that IMHO all the most anoying parts of FR are dead (Dizzit), blown up (Zentil keep) or reduced to senile street people (Elminster)the setting just might be worth looking into.
I'm not interested in the new age "paper video game" 4.0. So no FR 4.0 for I and I.It doesn't sound like you've played 4th Edition, or have even taken a good look at it. The whole "paper video game" thing has been debunked about a million times as utterly short-sighted.
Not entirely true, i really like 4e as game, but it does have large video game elements and feels a lot like a mmorpg when played. I know you think it does no ill, but there are genuine and reasonable reasons to dislike it(the skill system of suck for instance)