So, who'll be buying 4E FR?


4th Edition

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Dark Archive

I'm still debating. I have the older editions but never played or DM'd the setting. And I'll admit some of the changes (e.g., spellplague) color me curious. Finally, I'm a crunch fan :)

So, any here marked "yes" to buy FR when released?


I'm a lot like you. I really could care less about FR but if they throw in enough crunch I might just ignore all this annoying blathering about cities and other irrelevancies and skip over to the cool new classes and feats and such.


I will be buying em.

I'm intrested in seeing exactly what has happened with the Spellplauge, since there's been so much rumor , congecture, and possible misinformation about it running around I'm not sure what exactly has actually happened anymore. It'll be interesting to see.

On top of that, the crunchy side of the books intruiges me a lot, the Swordmage in particular.

Mostly I'm intrested to see what things they do with the next system in an old setting.


I've lightly followed FR since the 2E days, and already have the 4E version pre-ordered. I'm interested in seeing what happens in the new version, as well as getting some new crunch.

Cheers! :)


Well, I know who won't be...

Liberty's Edge

I am going to try if I have the excess cash. If anything I can rip it apart and take things for my homebrew. I will admit the changes make it more likely I will take a look.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

While I'm not a Realms scholar, I've been a fan since the first boxed set and I can't stop reading the story now. The FRCG will be my second purchase at Gen Con after the PCCS.

At first, I decried the 4e Realms changes but I'm ready to move on and see what the new place looks like. In some ways, the "fresh start" will be liberating.

The Exchange

Yep - gonna play me some LFR @ DragonCon.


I'll probably buy it (grumble, grumble about pocketbook)although I'll want to look through it at the bookstore before I do anything rash. If nothing else, I want to see how a 4e campaign setting is officially put together.


I've followed the setting since the gray box, I'll pick up at least the book for the campaign setting even if I never play there again.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Already pre-ordered this and the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.

I kinda like that they blew up Halruaa (and hopefully Captain Omen was there when it happened! grrrr...) though not that they killed a lot of the gods (how many pantheons do we have on Earth again? many gods for a variety of cultures. I liked that about the realms), and wish they'd have made the Dragonborn sort of extra-dimensional immigrants imported by the combatants in the Tchazzar/Unther war outlined in Dragons of Faeurn...

As the Candlekeep guy said, they could have made the changes more logical, and less cliche' with less soap-opera drama (huh? Helm/Tyr/Sune love triangle? that's stupid)

but I'll get it for the new maps and the fact that they developed Loudwater (one of my fav' little cities in the Heartlands)

I based my 1st ed game out of there.


We will be finishing our campaign soon in FR. We still plan on playing in the realms but not with 4e. However, I am still intrested in the book. I'm curious as to what they will change. If we like some it we will use it, if not we wont.

I've also heard that WotC isn't planning on releasing much for FR 4e anyhjow other than the main campaign setting.


Probably, spurred more by interest in LFR than in FR in general. Though I am rather interested in the Swordmage and the Genasi.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
I'm a lot like you. I really could care less about FR but if they throw in enough crunch I might just ignore all this annoying blathering about cities and other irrelevancies and skip over to the cool new classes and feats and such.

Similar, I've still got a lot of 1e, 2e and 3e Forgotten Realms stuff and feel no real urge to run in the Realms. But I'm sure I'll find a lot of bits of it to steal for my own campaigns.

More interested in the crunchier player's guide the following month though.

Contributor

Given the changes to the Realms, I don't have any plans to purchase the book. I may end up dropping the setting entirely because of the extent, rate, and content of the changes, plus how I've perceived those changes as being handled and advertised.

They hooked me solidly on the Realms in 3e, and it looks like they've completely lost me with what carries the FR name in 4e.

Dark Archive

Todd Stewart wrote:

Given the changes to the Realms, I don't have any plans to purchase the book. I may end up dropping the setting entirely because of the extent, rate, and content of the changes, plus how I've perceived those changes as being handled and advertised.

They hooked me solidly on the Realms in 3e, and it looks like they've completely lost me with what carries the FR name in 4e.

I don't think I could have put my feelings any better than Todd has.

Certainly, there are people that the new setting will appeal to, and that this setting has been written for - I'm not one of the latter, and as a result, not one of the former.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I agree with Todd. I'm completely uninterested in Spellplague and "rebooting" the Realms.


Already pre-ordered.

Scarab Sages

I can't seem to find a gaming group for 4E that I can tolerate (I am 36 and don't like playing with the teenie-boppers) so I think for now I am done with 4E purchases. if and when I get into a game I may start buying,

so color me in as no.


Todd Stewart wrote:

Given the changes to the Realms, I don't have any plans to purchase the book. I may end up dropping the setting entirely because of the extent, rate, and content of the changes, plus how I've perceived those changes as being handled and advertised.

They hooked me solidly on the Realms in 3e, and it looks like they've completely lost me with what carries the FR name in 4e.

This. You stole my words! Wordthief! ^_-

But yeah, my Realms are the actually forgotten ones, the ones WotC forgot the players liked. Unless there's a reeeeeally good explanation for all the needless changes (and I mean make me weep in awe at its utter awesomeness good), they can take their Forsaken Realms to a random layer of the Abyss as far as I'm concerned. I won't be buying the book to find out about that - a quick look through it will be plenty.


I shall not be purchasing any 4E Forgotten Realms products. I've never played or DMed in the Realms. No need to start now. I'll sit back and let the RPGA fritter-away the setting with their "replay."

Don (Greyson)


I will take a look at the new FR setting but I feel it might be too different to the setting me and the group spent so much time playing in and loving. Some things like the time jump and things interest me but thats about it.

I read the 4th ed books to see what the score was and I'm not planning on running anything using the system for the foreseeable future -just didn't feel right.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Greyson wrote:

I shall not be purchasing any 4E Forgotten Realms products. I've never played or DMed in the Realms. No need to start now. I'll sit back and let the RPGA fritter-away the setting with their "replay."

Don (Greyson)

This is exactly what I'm afraid of: that the setting will be tainted by the Living campaign---as the RPGA stamps its imprimatur on the setting, the Realms may become less and less desirable for a home game.


I've always hated FR as a game setting. The idea that they blew it up is somewhat inviting in terms of looking at it, but to be honest I doubt I'll buy any 4E FR material. As the poster above said, why start now?

Sovereign Court

Ah... 1373 D.R. ...
it was a very good year


I played FR in 2nd Edition, and very briefly in 3rd Edition: I actually sold all of my FR books long before 4E was announced because I had no plans to use them. That being said, I'm more interested in how they are handling it now, and pre-ordered both books and the adventure.
If nothing else, I'll use it for the swordmage, genasi, feats, magic items, etc.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't Buy Forgotten realms...

Buy I will be getting Eberron when it comes out..Most likely that will be my Only 4e Game. *If i ever find a group*


As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.

Seriously doubt that is legal. If you want to make a statement using your wallet thats certainly anyones right but it does not some how give one the right to steal WotCs stuff.

To use a parallel example lets suppose I was offended by Hook Mountain Massacre. Let us suppose that I considered that issue essentially some kind of gore porn. I'd obviously have the right to refuse to buy Paizo products until they straightened up and only published PG 13 material. However I can't ethically use the fact that I believe they are creating morally questionable material as an excuse to steal their work and not pay for it.

I feel this is the same thing. You can object to what WotC has done to the Realms and thats fair enough but objecting to what they have done does not entitle you to steal from them.

Now I'd like to emphasize that I personally liked Hook Mountain Massacre and, in general, am completely on board with Paizo's design choices to present extremely edgy material.

The Exchange

Gotham Gamemaster wrote:
Greyson wrote:

I shall not be purchasing any 4E Forgotten Realms products. I've never played or DMed in the Realms. No need to start now. I'll sit back and let the RPGA fritter-away the setting with their "replay."

Don (Greyson)

This is exactly what I'm afraid of: that the setting will be tainted by the Living campaign---as the RPGA stamps its imprimatur on the setting, the Realms may become less and less desirable for a home game.

Not sure I understand this particular sentiment. Living Greyhawk was fantastic! I wish someone at WotC would capture all of the development work done at the regional level.

The Living Campaign gave Greyhawk incredible depth and rich detail. If LFR is half as good as LG then the Forgotten Realms is in for a big boost.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.

Seriously doubt that is legal. If you want to make a statement using your wallet thats certainly anyones right but it does not some how give one the right to steal WotCs stuff.

To use a parallel example lets suppose I was offended by Hook Mountain Massacre. Let us suppose that I considered that issue essentially some kind of gore porn. I'd obviously have the right to refuse to buy Paizo products until they straightened up and only published PG 13 material. However I can't ethically use the fact that I believe they are creating morally questionable material as an excuse to steal their work and not pay for it.

I feel this is the same thing. You can object to what WotC has done to the Realms and thats fair enough but objecting to what they have done does not entitle you to steal from them.

Now I'd like to emphasize that I personally liked Hook Mountain Massacre and, in general, am completely on board with Paizo's design choices to present extremely edgy material.

Here in the UK, I am given to understand that it is legal to photocopy portions of a book for personal use, within limits (something like less than 10% of the book or one chapter/article, whichever is less, although you are supposed to fill in forms if it's a public library book that you borrow to do so; and you probably ought to observe those restrictions if you borrow a friend's book, although I can't imagine classes occupying more than 10% (or one chapter) if the 4E Realms setting is anything like the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting.)

Of course you may have different copy protection laws in other countries, and if any UK legal experts are able to inform me that my information is wrong, then I shall be happy to stand corrected, and apologise for referring to what I believed to be a perfectly legal option.

Edit:
Please note that I AM NOT advocating illegal pdfs or shoplifting. I would hope that none of my friends (if I wanted to borrow a book from them for photocopying purposes) would have engaged in any such practices, and I would be dismayed to discover that a public library had been doing so.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.

Seriously doubt that is legal. If you want to make a statement using your wallet thats certainly anyones right but it does not some how give one the right to steal WotCs stuff.

Totally legal in all the countries I know (as long as you do not distribute it, and a home weekly game is not distributing). In many gaming groups not all players own all crunch books, but probably they share useful info for other players' characters (like 3.5 PrCs and so on). You can phone a friend and he'll dictate you a PrC requirements, for instance.

What sounds quite sad is that concept of buying a XX USD book just to ransack 5 or 6 pages of class and power stat blocks. Especially from the POV of WotC: you put a considerable effort in relaunching a setting (no matter how much some of us are wary of the relaunch, the effort is there) and a decent segment of buyers are just looking for crunch (if that really happens).
You would probably make more customers happy by keeping the crunch world-free (although with recommendations for their published campaign settings) in other handbooks or e-journals, and just have the campaign setting as that: a campaign setting with a minimum of crunch. The 4e FR campaign guide seems to be on the short side, if we get even a moderate number of crunch pages (and a single class takes more than 10 pages!), the actual campaign details for the FR followers are going to be lean.

IMHO, 4e is especially problematic for mixing crunch and fluff, as the crunch stuff takes a lot of page count (long lists of powers, no "shared powers", the formatting is visually clear but space-consuming), including monsters, which get their different "versions and roles". I am not being negative in the system, I just think that people who love purchasing a fluff-detailed campaign product may also feel annoyed by 20-odd pages of pure power listings instead of more scoop on NPCs, regions, etc. And some other people without interest in the campaign will just want to lie their hands on the new rules to adapt to their homebrew. So, it would be better to go for more specialized products or even for support articles in the magazines.
Otherwise I cannot but feel that there is a bit of sales strategy (which may blow in the face as customers wear out of products on two fronts).


Andreas Skye wrote:

Totally legal in all the countries I know (as long as you do not distribute it, and a home weekly game is not distributing). In many gaming groups not all players own all crunch books, but probably they share useful info for other players' characters (like 3.5 PrCs and so on). You can phone a friend and he'll dictate you a PrC requirements, for instance.
What sounds quite sad is that concept of buying a XX USD book just to ransack 5 or 6 pages of class and power stat blocks. Especially from the POV of WotC: you put a considerable effort in relaunching a setting (no matter how much some of us are wary of the relaunch, the effort is there) and a decent segment of buyers are just looking for crunch (if that really happens).
You would probably make more customers happy by keeping the crunch world-free (although with recommendations for their published campaign settings) in other handbooks or e-journals, and just have the campaign setting as that: a campaign setting with a minimum of crunch. The 4e FR campaign guide seems to be on the short side, if we get even a moderate number of crunch pages (and a single class takes more than 10 pages!), the actual campaign details for the FR followers are going to be lean.

IMHO, 4e is especially problematic for mixing crunch and fluff, as the crunch stuff takes a lot of page count (long lists of powers, no "shared powers", the formatting is visually clear but space-consuming), including monsters, which get their different "versions and roles". I am not...

As far as I am aware Skye, in large part the fluff and crunch of the FR setting (and, supposedly, all other settings to be released for 4E) WILL be separated. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting will contain world information while the Player's Guide will contain the new class/races.

I'm sure there will be some crunch in the Campaign Setting and some fluff in the Player's Guide, but I believe the intention is to minimize the bleed over.

Sounds somewhat like what you are suggesting, truthfully.

Cheers! :)


David Marks wrote:


As far as I am aware Skye, in large part the fluff and crunch of the FR setting (and, supposedly, all other settings to be released for 4E) WILL be separated. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting will contain world information while the Player's Guide will contain the new class/races.

I'm sure there will be some crunch in the Campaign Setting and some fluff in the Player's Guide, but I believe the intention is to minimize the bleed over.

Sounds somewhat like what you are...

Good, I wasn't saying a bad job is done (as I haven't seen the books), just that the *possibility* of packing too much crunch in all books to make them attractive would be a bad idea. Especially given that the new format is more or less economic for dealing with monsters (in that, 4e is a pretty good improvement: stat blocks are quite small and most of the extended text is actually tactics for running the monsters and Knowledge elements).

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I will be.

Liberty's Edge

I will.


I will, mainly for the fluff.
I don't intend to use it though. I used to DM the realms but won't probably anymore.
So that's more for information, to keep informed, as it is a setting i like.

Liberty's Edge

Seldriss wrote:

I will, mainly for the fluff.

I don't intend to use it though. I used to DM the realms but won't probably anymore.
So that's more for information, to keep informed, as it is a setting i like.

Me too. I really only use the FR books like an encyclopedia-- when I'm reading an FR novel, or trying to write a story.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:

I don't Buy Forgotten realms...

Buy I will be getting Eberron when it comes out..Most likely that will be my Only 4e Game. *If i ever find a group*

yeah, I am curious about Eberron myself <guilty grin>. I know it is considered D&D Pop, but I rather had a big gaming group that I DMed in Eberron and it went fairly well. Crunch is useless now, but fluff would be nice.

Cheers,
Zux

Sovereign Court

I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.

Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.

Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.


joela wrote:
So, any here marked "yes" to buy FR when released?

Though I bought all 3.0 3.5 FR Books, Most of the AD&D FR Books and nearly all FR litarature, WOTC killed my world and I will not support a FR4e.

The Exchange

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
I'm a lot like you. I really could care less about FR but if they throw in enough crunch I might just ignore all this annoying blathering about cities and other irrelevancies and skip over to the cool new classes and feats and such.

Ouch Dude! As somebody with a bad case of Storyteller and Actor this is pretty dismissive. You just basically said, "My name is Jeremy MacDonald and I am a powergamer-slayer.".

Just so you know how that came across...

The Exchange

I will be picking this up. I am expecting to be disappointed, though. The changes I have heard about so far are not warming my heart.


Antioch wrote:

I played FR in 2nd Edition, and very briefly in 3rd Edition: I actually sold all of my FR books long before 4E was announced because I had no plans to use them. That being said, I'm more interested in how they are handling it now, and pre-ordered both books and the adventure.

If nothing else, I'll use it for the swordmage, genasi, feats, magic items, etc.

My thoughts exactly.


Is it out yet?


Depends on the crunch for both books. The Player's Guide is sounding more appealing than the campaign setting based on the excerpts and RPGA preview.

Sovereign Court

Angel Gabriel wrote:

I bought the Forgotten Realms book when we started up the Sarbreenar living city campaign, here in the UK. That ran on into a living campaign for years and we raised thousands of pounds for charities. It was the biggest and longest running living campaign over here.

Then, around eighteen months ago Wizards sent us a Cease and Desist order and threatened to sue us if we continued. Incredible! We just couldn't understand it at the time but now we know why, don't we.

Well you can fool some of the people all of the time and fool all of the people some of the time -- but I won't be buying anything from a company that threatens players with legal action if they use their products.

Are you serious? That's low even for WotC. And we thought killing the magazines and blowing up the Forgotten Realms was bad. I'm sorry, but that is reprehensible behavior. I am more disgusted with WotC now than after they killed the mags.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As has been already pointed out, on a thread over in the 3.5 forum, if all that you want is the crunch for new classes from the 4E Realms Campaign Setting, borrow a friend's copy and photocopy what you need- if you're not blessed with a library which stocks D&D books :D.

Seriously doubt that is legal. If you want to make a statement using your wallet thats certainly anyones right but it does not some how give one the right to steal WotCs stuff.

To use a parallel example lets suppose I was offended by Hook Mountain Massacre. Let us suppose that I considered that issue essentially some kind of gore porn. I'd obviously have the right to refuse to buy Paizo products until they straightened up and only published PG 13 material. However I can't ethically use the fact that I believe they are creating morally questionable material as an excuse to steal their work and not pay for it.

I feel this is the same thing. You can object to what WotC has done to the Realms and thats fair enough but objecting to what they have done does not entitle you to steal from them.

Now I'd like to emphasize that I personally liked Hook Mountain Massacre and, in general, am completely on board with Paizo's design choices to present extremely edgy material.

Here in the UK, I am given to understand that it is legal to photocopy portions of a book for personal use, within limits (something like less than 10% of the book or one chapter/article, whichever is less, although you are supposed to fill in forms if it's a public library book that you borrow to do so; and you probably ought to observe those restrictions if you borrow a friend's book, although I can't imagine classes occupying more than 10% (or one chapter) if the 4E Realms setting is anything like the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting.)

Of course you may have different copy protection laws in other countries, and if any UK legal experts are able to inform me...

What your refering to is fair use. It is legal to photocopy apportion of your book for your own personal use.

It is there for legal for you to photocopy a chart for quick reference.

However, it is not legal to photo copy someone elses book for your use.


David Marks wrote:


I'm sure there will be some crunch in the Campaign Setting and some fluff in the Player's Guide, but I believe the intention is to minimize the bleed over.
Andreas Skye wrote:


Good, I wasn't saying a bad job is done (as I haven't seen the books), just that the *possibility* of packing too much crunch in all books to make them attractive would be a bad idea. Especially given that the new format is more or less economic for dealing with monsters (in that, 4e is a pretty good improvement: stat blocks are quite small and most of the extended text is actually tactics for running the monsters and Knowledge elements).

Likely, the crunchy bits you will find in the campaign setting book will be the new monsters and other DM related material, while the Player's guide will have all the new powers, classes, feats, magic items, etc.

That seems to be the general trened of things for the new edition.
One type of book written for the players, to encourage all the players to buy a copy, and another type written for the DM.


I sheepishly admit that I'm one of the folks for whom WotC probably destroyed the Realms as we knew them. I was always intimidated to DM in that setting due to my lack of knowledge about the myriad famous NPCs and such. Now that we're starting over from scratch, so to speak, I'm eager to try the setting out.

FR novels continue to be written, however, so I can only assume that in time, the setting will become as intimidating as it ever was, particularly with Living Forgotten Realms on the horizon. Maybe it'll blow up again for 5E.

I will definitely buy the book, if only for the swordmage class.

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