Both sides¹ can prematurely pat themselves on the back for winning the Edition Wars. Time will tell which side was actually right…if either.
¹By 'sides' I mean fanslaves. I doubt the companies, WotC or Paizo, care much as long as they are making money.
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I'm relatively certain that substantial changes were made to 4E up to the day before the books were sent to the printers earlier this year, actually. Plenty of time to hear about Paizo's plans.
Any sort of acknowledgement (even a sideways dis) is at least some sort of notice, rather than complete uninterest. Definitely play it up.
Or as my marketing people used to tell me "it's better to have our competitors knocking our product than completely unaware of it."
I think the same thing applies/will apply to Pathfinder: there was a big spike of interest when it was first announced (from what I saw), which will gradually decline until the final rules are released in 2009, which will cause interest to have another spike.I'm not sure this is the case. I came here looking for the Alpha then got interested in their other products. Based on Erik's comments about increased sales post 4e I get the impression that a lot of people did the same thing.
Right -- that's what I mean by an initial spike of interest.
The beta release plus the beta update releases will keep people interested and involved in Pathfinder. Sales for the Pathfinder hardcover will no doubt be highest for the first couple weeks after released as backorders get filled and pend up demand is released but by that time I think their customer base will be well established. I don't see a lot of new people jumping on board immediately following the release.
I agree there'll probably be another spike of interest when the Beta comes out, but I suspect (based on nothing, really) that it'll be smaller than the first since some people probably checked out the Alpha and weren't interested.
I don't see that happening, mainly because unlike 4e... WE HAVE THE RULES.
Fact of the matter is, until 4e actually came out, we had nothing but a few scattered events and a 2 books that told us nothing about the actual game mechanics to use and mess around with. We've had Alpha, now we'll get Beta.
What I meant is that there'll be a long stretch between Beta and the final edition of the rules for interest to die off. As always, I could be wrong.
... While Pathfinder is fully capable of succeeding for Paizo with no reference to 4e, Pathfinder’s greater success in the market is dependent on 4e failing or being perceived to be less than what it was hoped or thought to be. So far, Wotc is accommodating Paizo by making serial missteps with 4e. So what next?
You make this out like its a head to head battle, winner takes all. Paizo doesn't need Wizard's to fail or lose in order for Pathfinder to be a highly successful product which lasts for some time. I would venture to guess that if Paizo get's 1 out of 20 DMs on board that will be a much greater market share then they had previous to the 4e conversion.
I guess the flip side of this is that those 1 out of 20 DMs are much more likely to be subscribing to Pathfinder and the recurring monthly revenue of a subscription service is what WotC is really after.
Considering Wizard's took 2 highly successful products and turned them into utter garbage for 18 months so far I'm not sure why they are surprised people are unwilling to subscribe.
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...and the misguided assumption on some folks part that "open playtest" means "adopting all my favorite houserules".
Huh. Good point. It didn't occur to me folks would get upset enough to lambaste the entire PfRPG or the company because their houserule didn't "make it" into even the later Alphas.
There's also the way that certain folks came here with the attitude of 'DON'T YOU LOSERS KNOW WHO I AM?!?', and had a hissy fit because people said 'No;...umm...so who are you, again? And why should we care?'.
All we need now is a sex scandal!
...and now to start some rumors...
Not to start any unsubstantiated rumors, but I heard the Pathfinder Organized Play is just a ruse by Nicholas Logue to get his dirty little hands on fresh gimps...
Chief Technical Officer
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Since we announced Pathfinder the same day we announced the loss of the magazine licenses, yes. This was well before WotC announced 4th Edition (we had Pathfinder #1 for sale at the Gen Con where WotC first announced 4th edition, for example), and since playtests didn't happen until after that... yes. Paizo using the word "Pathfinder" has been public knowledge since early 2007. The first ads for Pathfinder ran in Dragon and Dungeon magazine, several issues before they ceased being print magazines. I have no idea how far along 4th edition was in development in early 2007, though, but I do know WotC knew about Pathfinder the same day they announced that the magazines were cancelled.Wouldn't the relevant timeframe be after Paizo announced that it did not intend to convert to 4e? It'd be surprising if WotC would make the "wrong step" joke at the time you announced Pathfinder unless they had some reason to believe you wouldn't be converting to 4e.
(That being said, I think the announcment re: 4e was made during the window in which WotC could have made the change, but I am not certain.)
I have heard that the Pathfinder and "Wrong Step" were both in the 4E playtest before we announced the Pathfinder RPG in March.
So if it's meant as a dig at us, it would have to be a dig on the Pathfinder Adventure Path... and I really doubt anyone at Wizards thinks that Pathfinder AP was a "wrong step" for us. (In fact, we know a bunch of Wizards employees play in Pathfinder games.)
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Creative Director
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Man, that would be something... a "Director's Cut" for Hook Mountain! Count me in!Look at the guy who asked Nick to write an adventure about hillbilly ogres and then proceeded to publish it. What I'm saying is that I'm probably more disturbed than most of Paizo's readers.I'd love to see the unedited version of that module. "Sick & Twisted", indeed :)
Well... I'm basically the "director" of the adventure scene in Pathfinder, and my "director's cut" is pretty much the one you see in pathfinder 3, to be honest. That's not the same as the "unedited" version, of course. A lot of the stuff that got cut from Hook Mountain was simply over the line and gratuitous, and a lot of other stuff was either cut because it didn't work in the context of the adventure (such was the fate of the Runelord of Gluttony's magic book, which ended up in Pathfinder #5's web enhancement), or because it worked better for other adventures (Eel's End, from Edge of Anarchy, is effectively the reworked Paradise barge).
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All we need now is a sex scandal!...and now to start some rumors...Not to start any unsubstantiated rumors, but I heard the Pathfinder Organized Play is just a ruse by Nicholas Logue to get his dirty little hands on fresh gimps...
Is that a Mountain Dew in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Yeah, but in those books it says that you can find the 4E conversions on the D&D Insider!
So all you need to do to use them in 4E is log on and there are the 4e conversions!
What? They're not there? WotC said they would be there. Surely they wouldn't claim something that isn't true....
Must be a glitch...
I thought they had some conversion articles up recently.
Thats how to convert 3rd edition characters. They are referrign to conversion notes for the last few books that came out before 4th edition like Exemplars or Evil or Elder Evils.
It''s a work in progress, he hasn't actually gotten funny yet.
Point.
I guess the flip side of this is that those 1 out of 20 DMs are much more likely to be subscribing to Pathfinder and the recurring monthly revenue of a subscription service is what WotC is really after.
Interesting. I never thought of it like this before. Framed like that, I think Paizo did beat WotC…at least for me. I was subscribed (and still would be if my financial situation were more stable) but never even considered paying for DDI. I do not play MMO’s mostly because I do not care for the subscription model.
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Keep in mind that those who are attacking Paizo are actually a good thing. Negative/shocking publicity gets the word out. (Celebrities use it all the time.) The more people are talking about Pathfinder, the more that weren't even aware of it will meander over here and check it out.
All we need now is a sex scandal!
I'm free!
I'm free!Keep in mind that those who are attacking Paizo are actually a good thing. Negative/shocking publicity gets the word out. (Celebrities use it all the time.) The more people are talking about Pathfinder, the more that weren't even aware of it will meander over here and check it out.
All we need now is a sex scandal!
*comic thread jacking post questioning inclusion of Equus asinus in said scandal*
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Well, I see lots of passionate, positive support for Pathfinder on these boards (and this thread is no exception), so Paizo can take solace that their regular fans are not being disheartened.
As for other negativity? I can't comment, as I don't visit other boards. I have heard occasionally some jokes from 4E people at my FLGS, saying it is a waste of time and the like, but I got the impression they were people who had just heard about it and not actually seen what it was.
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Thats how to convert 3rd edition characters. They are referrign to conversion notes for the last few books that came out before 4th edition like Exemplars or Evil or Elder Evils.Yeah, but in those books it says that you can find the 4E conversions on the D&D Insider!
So all you need to do to use them in 4E is log on and there are the 4e conversions!
What? They're not there? WotC said they would be there. Surely they wouldn't claim something that isn't true....
Must be a glitch...
I thought they had some conversion articles up recently.
Indeed the last 4 or 5 books WOTC released have the D&D Insider logo on them for 3.5. According to them, at the time, books with the DDI logo would have web enhancements that made them 4e compatible.
But then again.. the company line NOW is you can't convert characters from 3e to 4e.
Strange how Skip Williams was about to make a guide for AD&D to 3e conversion and the system is far different if you ask me then 3e and 4e.
The above linked "guides" are a joke since they don't talk about converting characters.. just what character class you should play instead.
Hey, this looks like a fun thread.
What's happening?
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He's resting.Like you and couth.I see now why you usually pretend like you have a comeback rather than actually producing a comeback. Even your puppet avatar didn't laugh at that one.
Mha ha ha!
Thank the gawds my hot coffee was on the desk. Otherwise, I know it would have come out my nose at that reply.
Touche' :)
The llama 3 posts above you was showing me his ass.Hey, this looks like a fun thread.
What's happening?
How vulgar.
I don't know why people keep fighting over things like this. They should really be directing their hostility towards me!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Hey, this looks like a fun thread.
What's happening?
Thank god! heathy called me a doo-doo head, but then deleted it and called me a "whiny little girl" for complaining about it. Then he deleted that and replaced it with a link to a picture of his butt. I was crying because he was so mean, when CourtFool barked at me and got his god awful alpo breath in my face. I think those two might have some sort of canine on canine alliance if you know what I mean.
Anyway, no one's having fun and I'm being unjustly persecuted. Please ban the following posters:
heathy
CourtFool
Fatespinner
Karelzarath
Daigle
The Jade
Also, anyone who responds to this post should be banned as well.
If you're too busy, I don't mind if you just add a "ban" button to my profile, which I will use responsibly and in no way abuse for my own entertainment and petty jealousies.
The only negative press i have seen, save a few' i'm going now style post, have been posted by joela.
It begs the question. It appears from where i am sitting to be a clumsy attempt to potray an issue, where there is none. ('teaching the controversy' anyone?)
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lets kill'm all and let the gods sort them out :)I am giving my opinion about a companies business practice in a thread in which that is the topic.No, you're not. You're making an accusation based on what you think is a company's business practice. Which incidentally means you are attacking people, even if not to their face.
Can't we all just get along guys?At this point, no. Sorry.
Well that would have been my second choice.
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Hey, this looks like a fun thread.
What's happening?
Thank god! heathy called me a doo-doo head, but then deleted it and called me a "whiny little girl" for complaining about it. Then he deleted that and replaced it with a link to a picture of his butt. I was crying because he was so mean, when CourtFool barked at me and got his god awful alpo breath in my face. I think those two might have some sort of canine on canine alliance if you know what I mean.
Anyway, no one's having fun and I'm being unjustly persecuted. Please ban the following posters:
heathy
CourtFool
Fatespinner
Karelzarath
Daigle
The JadeAlso, anyone who responds to this post should be banned as well.
If you're too busy, I don't mind if you just add a "ban" button to my profile, which I will use responsibly and in no way abuse for my own entertainment and petty jealousies.
I feel so slighted, I was totally forgetton about, no one ever remembers me. Sigh
Hey, this looks like a fun thread.
What's happening?
Thank god! heathy called me a doo-doo head, but then deleted it and called me a "whiny little girl" for complaining about it. Then he deleted that and replaced it with a link to a picture of his butt. I was crying because he was so mean, when CourtFool barked at me and got his god awful alpo breath in my face. I think those two might have some sort of canine on canine alliance if you know what I mean.
Anyway, no one's having fun and I'm being unjustly persecuted. Please ban the following posters:
heathy
CourtFool
Fatespinner
Karelzarath
Daigle
The JadeAlso, anyone who responds to this post should be banned as well.
If you're too busy, I don't mind if you just add a "ban" button to my profile, which I will use responsibly and in no way abuse for my own entertainment and petty jealousies.
WHAT?!? I am not banned? Why is that, Bella Sara Fanboi? ~grumbles and goes off to count my hoard again, depressed~ Damn. I no longer matter! ~sighs sadly~
Please ban the following posters:
Sebastian
Sebasti an
Se bast ian
Sebas tian
Done.
My good friend and god amongst men, Sebastian, wishes to request that you unban him from the boards. He was in the middle of some ridiculous tirade and hadn't even gotten into insulting Sharoth when he was suddenly and inexplicably cut off from posting. If you could fix the problem, he assures me that no violence will be necessary.
Man this is what I get for sleeping all day without coffin-wireless Internet access! I miss all the juicy fun!
Sheesh; this is one confusing thread; thought I was the firebrand; guess not; maybe I should find an ice elemental avatar...
I just spent 20 minutes of my life reading this thread, that's 20 minutes that I will never get back.
With added interest, I think some one owes me a half hour.
I will settle for some cookies and a nice steaming mug of coffee, but only because my butt is now welded to the shape of the computer chair and I don't want to ruin the "fit" by heading down stairs to put the kettle on.
I just spent 20 minutes of my life reading this thread, that's 20 minutes that I will never get back.
With added interest, I think some one owes me a half hour.
I will settle for some cookies and a nice steaming mug of coffee, but only because my butt is now welded to the shape of the computer chair and I don't want to ruin the "fit" by heading down stairs to put the kettle on.
~wicked smile~ Would you like some cheese with your whine?
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I'll be curious to see if the Pathfinder Society's participation at GenCon and the release of the beta will cause any spikes as well.
Good question. I don't go to conventions, so I don't really think about that kind of stuff.
I wonder if there's a Pathfinder Society group forming up in the Toronto area...
I'd be interested in that, too. I'm in Oshawa...
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I'll be curious to see if the Pathfinder Society's participation at GenCon and the release of the beta will cause any spikes as well.I'd be interested in that, too. I'm in Oshawa...Good question. I don't go to conventions, so I don't really think about that kind of stuff.
I wonder if there's a Pathfinder Society group forming up in the Toronto area...
Well, I am starting one up in Burlington, but that might be a bit far for you!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well, I am starting one up in Burlington, but that might be a bit far for you!I'd be interested in that, too. I'm in Oshawa...Good question. I don't go to conventions, so I don't really think about that kind of stuff.
I wonder if there's a Pathfinder Society group forming up in the Toronto area...
Well Iv'e two slots left in my Columbus, Ohio group, but that's a long haul for you
Man this is what I get for sleeping all day without coffin-wireless Internet access! I miss all the juicy fun!
Get your own forum, I was here first!
Nom, nom, nom...
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I'll be curious to see if the Pathfinder Society's participation at GenCon and the release of the beta will cause any spikes as well.I'd be interested in that, too. I'm in Oshawa...Good question. I don't go to conventions, so I don't really think about that kind of stuff.
I wonder if there's a Pathfinder Society group forming up in the Toronto area...
Well, I am starting one up in Burlington, but that might be a bit far for you!
Yah, I already drive to Peterborough once a week to game with friends I've been gaming with since before I moved to Oshawa. I couldn't afford the gas to get to Burlington, too. :) Good to know there is some pseudo-local interest, though. Maybe I'll just talk to the FLGS here in Oshawa and see if he has any plans for it.
