I just need to get this in here, okay? I don't want what happened with WotC and advancing Eberron to happen on these forums.
Paizo, I know a lot of people are saying, "OMG NO RAGE POINTS" but keep in mind how many are not. People are more likely to be outspoken if they dislike something in place. I can say, with a nice amount of certainty, that plenty of people like rage points - in fact, probably more than do not.
Obviously, I like rage points. I like their flexibility, I like their abilities, I like the spending more or less for extra abilities or mighty rage or such. The converson cannot be that hard between them and Rage X/day. Please, keep them.
For all you who like Rage Points, show your support here.
I can say, with a nice amount of certainty, that plenty of people like rage points - in fact, probably more than do not.
Actually, you can't. You can only vouch for those you know. I'll be honest, most of the people in my gaming community likes rage points. I don't. I'd like you to get rid of them, because otherwise Barbarian gets added to the list of classes I have to completely re-write for my games.
Like I said, compare dto how many people have downloaded AR3 and AR2 compared to how many have complained, quite a few like it. I can say with a nice amount of certainty (note not completely sure) that many like the idea. Besides, though I haven't the time to figure it out, there has to be a way to transfer Rage points -> Rage X/day. Besides, it's not like Rage X/day is even a good indicator for prereqs, as it can be adjusted with a feat.
I think the idea of having abilities that cost "rounds of rage" is just fine. And I'm slightly surprised by people who say that tracking a Pathfinder barbarian's "rage points" is "bookkeeping", but tracking how many rounds a 3.5 barbarian has been raging isn't.
Here here.. long live rage points. :o)
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I like rage points! I like the diversity and options that it will give to barbarians.
Add me to this list - in fact, not only is the rage points idea solid and fun, I will say that the barbarian has become (IMO) the best character rewrite and he and the rogue are now the front-runners for best class to play (new Alpha3 Paladin is pretty dam awesome, too).
Robert
I think the idea of having abilities that cost "rounds of rage" is just fine. And I'm slightly surprised by people who say that tracking a Pathfinder barbarian's "rage points" is "bookkeeping", but tracking how many rounds a 3.5 barbarian has been raging isn't.
I honestly think this is very much a case where language influences the "feel" of a feature for some people. I really think that if rage powers consumed extra rounds that the barbarian can rage, instead of being called "points," this would actually be enough to sway some people.
"Each use of this rage power shortens the amount of time the barbarian can rage by two rounds," etc.
I think the idea of having abilities that cost "rounds of rage" is just fine. And I'm slightly surprised by people who say that tracking a Pathfinder barbarian's "rage points" is "bookkeeping", but tracking how many rounds a 3.5 barbarian has been raging isn't.I honestly think this is very much a case where language influences the "feel" of a feature for some people. I really think that if rage powers consumed extra rounds that the barbarian can rage, instead of being called "points," this would actually be enough to sway some people.
"Each use of this rage power shortens the amount of time the barbarian can rage by two rounds," etc.
But what I like is that a Barbarian can rage for three rounds, then wait a while, then rage some more, even at 1st level, rather than having to bash down doors to kill more monsters while you're still raging. I mean, I like the whole idea, I like the system, but if someone can make a different name, I won't care. But I really only want the name to change, if anything at all.
Alright, just as an example, if the rage ability and its mechanics were phrased in this manner, would it be more appealing?
Rage (Ex): A barbarian can call upon inner reserves of strength and ferocity, granting her additional combat prowess. Starting at 1st level, a barbarian can enter a rage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her constitution modifier. For each level beyond 1st, the barbarian can rage for an additional number of rounds equal to 2 + her constitution modifier. Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from rage and spells like bear’s endurance, do not increase a barbarian’s total number of rounds that she may remain in a rage. The barbarian's ability to rage is renewed after 8 hours of rest, but these hours do not need to be consecutive.
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
The number of rounds a barbarian spends in a rage need not be consecutive, but each time the barbarian comes out of a rage, she is fatigued for 2 times the number of rounds she was in a rage (rounds that are lost to the use of a rage power count against the amount of time fatigued as well, see rage powers below). A barbarian may not enter a rage again while they are still fatigued, but other than that restriction, the barbarian may use any number of rounds in any combination, until the total number of rounds per day are exhausted. The rounds used need not be consecutive.
The barbarian can enter and end her rage as a free action.
Rage Powers: As a barbarian gains experience, she learns to harness her rage in new ways. Starting at 2nd level, a barbarian gains one rage power. She gains an additional rage power for every two levels of barbarian attained after 2nd level. A barbarian can use her rage powers only while raging, with each power shortening the barbarian's total daily time spent in a rage by a set number of rounds. A barbarian cannot select an individual power more than once. Unless otherwise noted, these abilities are swift actions that must be performed on the barbarian’s turn.
(example rage power)
Increased Damage Reduction (Ex): The barbarian gains damage reduction 1/— per 4 rage points spent for 1 round. This damage reduction stacks with that granted by the barbarian class feature. The barbarian cannot increase her damage reduction by more than 3/— with this power. A barbarian must be at least 12th level before selecting this ability. (4, 8, or 12 rounds)
Greater Rage (Ex): At 11th level, when a barbarian enters rage, she can choose to enter a greater rage. The bonus to her Strength and Constitution increases to +6 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +3. A barbarian that uses greater rage expends the amount of time in a rage at twice the normal rate.
Mighty Rage (Ex): At 20th level, when a barbarian enters rage, she can choose to enter mighty rage. The bonus to her Strength and Constitution increases to +8 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +4. A barbarian expends their normal alloted time in a rage at four times the normal rate when using a mighty rage.
Alright, just as an example, if the rage ability and its mechanics were phrased in this manner, would it be more appealing?
<spoiler cut>
I see no problem with that, only you have to state that the rounds per day need not be consecutive. I personally have no problem with the name "rage points," and I think the title pretty much clears up how they work. I think that instead of directly called "rage points," maybe they could be called the "Rage Reserve", which uses "points," like Lay on Hands or the Ki Pool.
I see no problem with that, only you have to state that the rounds per day need not be consecutive. I personally have no problem with the name "rage points," and I think the title pretty much clears up how they work. I think that instead of directly called "rage points," maybe they could be called the "Rage Reserve", which uses "points," like Lay on Hands or the Ki Pool.
That's why I put this in the rage description:
A barbarian may not enter a rage again while they are still fatigued, but other than that restriction, the barbarian may use any number of rounds in any combination, until the total number of rounds per day are exhausted.
But then maybe its not quite clear enough, which is entirely possible.
Edit: Added the following to the original post:
the rounds used need not be consecutive
Rage points are great! There is so little to keep track of as a barbarian, the rage pool is a welcome addition. My character sheet remains pristine because I use Post-its. Smokebear Clan Post-its.
I really like rage points, I wish the paladin had some of his abilities all built into such a universal point pool.
I really like rage points, I wish the paladin had some of his abilities all built into such a universal point pool.
They are. See Lay on Hands and its related abilities.
I really like rage points, I wish the paladin had some of his abilities all built into such a universal point pool.They are. See Lay on Hands and its related abilities.
That's a good example of how terminology influences things, I think. The paladin abilities dependent on "Lay on Hands" could have been expressed as "points," such as Lay on Hands Points, but instead, the paladin expends extra uses of the ability at one time. Mechanically there is little difference between either approach, but the terminology can be a hang up for some people (and I'm criticizing anyone for that, language evokes certain feelings, and can provide a major hurdle if it doesn't work for you).
That's a good example of how terminology influences things, I think. The paladin abilities dependent on "Lay on Hands" could have been expressed as "points," such as Lay on Hands Points, but instead, the paladin expends extra uses of the ability at one time. Mechanically there is little difference between either approach, but the terminology can be a hang up for some people (and I'm criticizing anyone for that, language evokes certain feelings, and can provide a major hurdle if it doesn't work for you).
Which is my point with the "Rage Reserve" - keeps the points idea but preserves more of the flavor.
Count me in for Rage Points as a good thing. I'll admit that I've not had a chance to see them in action as of yet, but I definitely like the way they're presented, and the benefits of having them are pretty sweet. Paying rounds of rage for special benefits is an innovative idea, and I'm pretty impressed. I'd just want some sort of feat to get extra points. I suppose Extra Rage from Complete Warrior can be a reasonable approximation.
I really like rage points, I wish the paladin had some of his abilities all built into such a universal point pool.They are. See Lay on Hands and its related abilities.
I meant a completely universal point system including Lay on Hands, Smite, and Divine Bond.
Rage points are fine and lots of fun to use.My barbarian felt like he was more then a 1 trick pony having more options on how and when he raged.
Not trying to threadcrap here, but since I missed the earlier discussion, I just wanted to cast my vote for getting rid of rage points. It's too much bookkeeping, plus some of the rage abilities don't seem very rage-y.
Not trying to threadcrap here, but since I missed the earlier discussion, I just wanted to cast my vote for getting rid of rage points. It's too much bookkeeping, plus some of the rage abilities don't seem very rage-y.
I've been trying to get a handle on this; maybe you could help. I don't understand the bookkeeping issue some people are having with rage points.
I also see no issue with book keeping. The barbarian we ran seemed to well be more useful with the player having a say in how long he raged.It was simple oh i can rage up to 9 rounds cool.It never felt like bookkeeping to him.It was a resource to use and control as he saw fit.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Count me as another who likes rage points.
I also think there should be a rage power that grants additional strength bonus, causes you to expand in size as if under an enlarge person spell that doesn't affect your equipment and causes you to burst through your clothes, turn green (or greener if you have orc blood), and be forced to shout "Hulk SMASH!" until your rage ends.
Rage points are great.
Not trying to threadcrap here, but since I missed the earlier discussion, I just wanted to cast my vote for getting rid of rage points. It's too much bookkeeping, plus some of the rage abilities don't seem very rage-y.I've been trying to get a handle on this; maybe you could help. I don't understand the bookkeeping issue some people are having with rage points.
It's just another pool of points to keep track off when it's not necessary, it worked fine the way it was before (in 3.5).
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Not trying to threadcrap here, but since I missed the earlier discussion, I just wanted to cast my vote for getting rid of rage points. It's too much bookkeeping, plus some of the rage abilities don't seem very rage-y.I've been trying to get a handle on this; maybe you could help. I don't understand the bookkeeping issue some people are having with rage points.
Before Rage was like 3 or 4 times a day - could be counted on one hand. Now the rage points has like 20, it takes all fingers and toes to keep track of, and frankly, some people get distracted by all the feet on the table....
Robert
I am one who is against rage points, I would perfer to see the Barbarian have the new options but have them work more like the Monk's Ki Pool or the Paladin's Lay on of Hands.
But that's exactly how they work. It's just that they are called Rage Points, not something like the Rage Reserve.
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My concern - and I have not yet had a chance to test it - has to do with the amount of rage a high level Pathfinder Barbarian gets compared to a high level 3.5 Barbarian. Since in 3.5 a Barbarian with Mighty Rage didn't 'spend more' to rage more strongly, I wonder if the increase cost for the Greater Rage and Mighty Rage is too restrictive? In order to more closely equate with the 3.5 barbarian, might it not be better to have Rage cost the same number of points (1/round), but when a barbarian gets Mighty Rage the bonuses simply increase with that expenditure?
I think that is the thing I dislike most about the rage points - the variable cost depending on a number of variables... I'd like one cost for each ability, if possible. But if that means too much rage compared to 3.5, the number of rage points would have to be decreased to compensate.
Has anyone done the math on this yet? If not, I'll try to do it while I'm at work.
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I really like rage points, I wish the paladin had some of his abilities all built into such a universal point pool.They are. See Lay on Hands and its related abilities.
Yup.
I like rage points, ki points, lay-on-hands points, and the whole pool points system. I'd rename the paladin mechanic as faith points and make it common (or at least overlap) with options available to the cleric too.
Also, I'd expand the rage/ki points system to give crunching background to fluff, representing different barbaric tribes or monastic schools.
I like the pool points system so much, I'd suggest using it as a common versatile framework for all the classes, to further characterize the PFRPG.
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The idea of "expressing rage" in different ways is fun.
As others have said, the terminology of "rage points" somehow feels obtuse. I think it's because I associate it with "credits" and I have a hard time imagining an enraged barbarian carefully rationing these "credits." ErrantKnightJr's alternate wording is an excellent alternative.
As before, with apologies for making an uninformed statement because our playtest doesn't begin until early June--on paper, the idea of spending 2 rage points a turn for heightened states of rage seems harsh. Doing some mental number-crunching, that'll really tear through the rage points of high-level barbarians, making all the nifty rage powers they've accumulated an afterthought. Fighters don't use access to the feats chosen at early levels simply because they're using the more advanced, damaging feats for which those earlier feats were prerequisites. That seems to be the feel of the high-level, high-cost rage powers and greater rages.
I like the principle of points - based on a single play test, but would also be happy with the 'rounds of raging' option.
Rather than get hung up on the terminology i'd would like a long hard look at the costs of some of the rage powers as that seems to me to be where the complexity comes from. In an ideal world you'd keep the total number of rage points low, and the power costs low (3 max?)to keep it simple and flowing. since you restrict when you can get powers making the costs increase as well doesn't feel right to me
As before, with apologies for making an uninformed statement because our playtest doesn't begin until early June--on paper, the idea of spending 2 rage points a turn for heightened states of rage seems harsh. Doing some mental number-crunching, that'll really tear through the rage points of high-level barbarians, making all the nifty rage powers they've accumulated an afterthought.
By the time a barbarian gets to level 11 (the minimum for Greater Rage), she will probably have at least 57 rage points (assuming a 16 Con, which is probably low). That's enough for 28 rounds of Greater Rage, which sounds reasonable to me. How many rounds of Greater Rage would you suggest a barbarian should have at that level?
The only real numbers I can go by are the number of players in my group that would look at the 3.5 barbarian and fling massive boogies at it. Now every single one of them, wizard fanboi included, run around screaming about how much fun they are. What's the difference? Rage points. And caffeine.
We have not got to use them but everyone has liked how they looked so far so no complaints from our group
Yes please keep rage points.
Guess I'll be the dissenting opinion. Rage points (and ki pool, etc) are my least favorite change that has been put forth. They're fine if you're a player, but a nightmare if you're a DM (which I am). They're one more thing you have to track for every NPC of that class that you have in any given encounter. Plus you pretty much have to arbitrarily decide if the NPCs have used any of their points for the day already or does every NPC the party encounters have their full allotment of points available.
I greatly prefer on/off per day abilities (like the old rage).
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By the time a barbarian gets to level 11 (the minimum for Greater Rage), she will probably have at least 57 rage points (assuming a 16 Con, which is probably low). That's enough for 28 rounds of Greater Rage, which sounds reasonable to me. How many rounds of Greater Rage would you suggest a barbarian should have at that level?
As before, with apologies for making an uninformed statement because our playtest doesn't begin until early June--on paper, the idea of spending 2 rage points a turn for heightened states of rage seems harsh. Doing some mental number-crunching, that'll really tear through the rage points of high-level barbarians, making all the nifty rage powers they've accumulated an afterthought.
Okay piggybacking on your work, Hogarth, the barbarian in the example would have 3 rages a day lasting 8 rounds each - thus 24 rounds; leaving an excess of 4 points to spend on the cool abilities that cost about 3 each.
Upon reaching 12th said barbarian would rage 4 times a day whereas a 3.5 barbarian would have 32 rounds of raging. PF would have 62 points or 31 rounds total (one less) even without using any of the abilities.
And I think 16 CON is a safe number. I feel its quite likely that one could have only a 15 CON by this point, meaning only 50 points, and only 25 rounds of rage a day.
IMO, Golb and DeadDM may have a point that it seems a bit much to have to spend 2 points a round for the mighty rage - when instead that ability should simply make the use of each rage point more "bang for the buck" instead of just costing more to get more. Furthermore, if you're getting roughly the same number of rounds of rage per day (provided you have at least a 16 CON), and cannot have any reserves for any of the cool and often-times costly rage powers, and if the M.O. of the new classes was to make character classes be able to do more, then the barbarian is certainly capable of doing this - provided he doesn't Greater Rage. If he's happy to just do standard rage - 62 rounds of that - mixed with an assorted array of abilies sounds quite nice; but I think it cheats them to have to do so at the expense of their 11th level ability - and later their 20th.
Robert
Okay piggybacking on your work, Hogarth, the barbarian in the example would have 3 rages a day lasting 8 rounds each - thus 24 rounds; leaving an excess of 4 points to spend on the cool abilities that cost about 3 each.Upon reaching 12th said barbarian would rage 4 times a day whereas a 3.5 barbarian would have 32 rounds of raging. PF would have 62 points or 31 rounds total (one less) even without using any of the abilities.
And I think 16 CON is a safe number. I feel its quite likely that one could have only a 15 CON by this point, meaning only 50 points, and only 25 rounds of rage a day.
IMO, Golb and DeadDM may have a point that it seems a bit much to have to spend 2 points a round for the mighty rage - when instead that ability should simply make the use of each rage point more "bang for the buck" instead of just costing more to get more. Furthermore, if you're getting roughly the same number of rounds of rage per day (provided you have at least a 16 CON), and cannot have any reserves for any of the cool and often-times costly rage powers, and if the M.O. of the new classes was to make character classes be able to do more, then the barbarian is certainly capable of doing this - provided he doesn't Greater Rage. If he's happy...
I'll give you that I don't like the having to spend more rage points for just a multiple of the ability. I think it should just be worth more to be Raging.
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Thanks Robert.
That was my suspicion but I hadn't the time to do any calculations.
I think there are certainly a variety of ways to determine the rage points to start and the cost so I'm not too worried about that in general, but I think that it would certainly make sense to allow the 'Improved Rages' work at the same cost, just provide more benefit.
If costs need to be adjusted around that, than so be it.
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I was going to start this as another thread, but the boards ate it. If they spit it back up, this is a cross-post. If they don't, this will do. I thought it was sufficiently different from the OP's post to warrant it's own thread, but as long as Jason is reading, it could be here instead.
The following numbers assume a Constitution of 16. Since many Barbarians advance only their strength score, we’re going to assume that remains a constant for the basis of comparison.
3.5 Barbarian
1st Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 8 rounds
4th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 16 rounds
8th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 24 rounds
12th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 36 rounds
16th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 45 rounds
20th Level – Rage +8 Strength and Constitution for 60 rounds.
Pathfinder Barbarian
1st Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 7 rounds
4th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 22 rounds
8th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 42 rounds
12th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 31 rounds
16th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 41 rounds
20th Level – Rage +8 Strength and Constitution for 25 rounds (2 rage points remain)
Variant – As Pathfinder but Greater and Mighty Rage cost 1 rage point/round
1st Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 7 rounds
4th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 22 rounds
8th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 42 rounds
12th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 62 rounds
16th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 82 rounds
20th Level – Rage +8 Strength and Constitution for 102 rounds
Analysis
Because Rage is not limited to a certain number of times each day in Pathfinder (it could be 1 round or 10 rounds at a time, assuming enough rage points) it can provide more benefit. At 1st level, even though it is one fewer total round compared to 3.5, a Pathfinder Barbarian may be able to use that over 3 or 4 encounters. If that is the case, the Pathfinder Barbarian doesn’t compare too unfavorably even at 12th or 16th level and is much better at 8th level. However, at 20th level the 3.5 Barbarian is clearly superior.
Because Rage Points are multiplied by barbarian level, Constitution is much more important to the Pathfinder Barbarian than the 3.5 Barbarian. Increasing the Constitution from 16 to 20 would have added (level x2 Rage Points). At 20th level, even with the 4/round to maintain a Mighty Rage, this would equate to another 10 rounds of raging.
Rage points are a ‘manageable resource’ that a character may use quickly or slowly. Without knowing how many fights will occur in a day, a player may either conserve or use them very quickly. Considering some abilities can cost 8 rage points/round, a 20th level Barbarian is very restricted from using the Mighty Rage. Elemental Fury (8pts) and Mighty Rage (4pts) would total 12 pts/round. At 20th level with a 16 Con we have 102 rage points. This would equate to 8 rounds of rage (remainder 6 rage points). Certainly at high levels the rage points can be spent very quickly, increasing the likelihood of contributing to the ’15 minute adventure day’.
In this sense, the Pathfinder Barbarian fails. It appears to provide more options, but they work to reduce the amount the character can use the signature ability. With the high cost of many of the rage powers, reducing the extra cost of Greater and Mighty rage make a big difference. Using the variant presented above, a 20th level barbarian using Elemental Fury would only expend 9 rage points/round. This would work out to 11 rounds of rage. The moral of the story is that no matter how Greater and Mighty Rage, rage powers need to be used sparingly and only in extreme circumstances should they be used every round.
This causes additional complexity in the game, as the barbarian constantly shifts from normal AC to a higher AC w/ Guarded Stance, or recalculates CMB with a bonus of Barbarian level to strength. Essentially, using many rage powers without having worked out the math in advance is a problem in a smoothly flowing game. At this point the calculations seem a normal part of playtesting, but I expect them to continue long after certain players have ‘mastered’ the class, depending on their ability to figure their bonuses in advance.
The major effect that Constitution has on number of Rage Points makes a big difference in the power level of the game. A barbarian with a 15 Constitution is much weaker than a barbarian with a 24 Constitution (5xlevel difference in Rage Points). I personally dislike having the ability so strongly tied with an ability score, since class level should be the primary factor in determining class abilities. A 20th level barbarian with a 15 Con has more Rage Points from Level, but a barbarian with a 24 Constitution has more than 2x as many from Con as from level. Calculating the number of rage points is a bit annoying since 1st level provides a different number. I essentially take the level, subtract 1, multiply by 2+Con, then add in the number gained at 1st level. Having a universally smooth progression will eliminate that minor wrinkle.
Suggestions
Reduce the cost of Greater and Mighty Rage to one rage point/round. This more closely emulates 3.5 where a barbarian that has Greater Rage does not use normal Rage. Having a single type of rage (+4, +6 or +8) will be easier than having to keep track of all 3, especially as you can move through them each round. This will also be true since a character that is in a rage will choose to maintain it with ‘rage’, but after moving toward enemies, switch to Greater Rage, then attack.
Change the number of rage points at each level to a universal amount. I suggest 4/level (maximum of 80 at 20th level). Removing the addition of Constitution to the number of rage points grants will bring the capabilities of different barbarians more in line with each other. Since Constitution should be important, I propose limiting a barbarian to spending their Constitution modifier in rage points/round. Thus, a 20th level character with a 15 Con in rage (23 while raging) would be able to spend only 6 rage points/round. A barbarian with a 20 Con (28 while raging) would be able to spend 9 rage points/round.
Suggested Barbarian Rage Rounds
1st Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 4 rounds
4th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 16 rounds
8th Level – Rage +4 Strength and Constitution for 32 rounds
12th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 48 rounds
16th Level – Rage +6 Strength and Constitution for 64 rounds
20th Level – Rage +8 Strength and Constitution for 80 rounds.
And that’s what I have to say about that.
Put me down for keeping Rage Points. I can speak for my group too - they loved them. It even generated interest in the Barbarian class where there was none before.
When I playtested them, as DM, I had no more problems running the NPCs than I would any other and it certainly wasn't hard to keep track of the points/powers.
I hope they stay, although in answer to those who say it's just not 'Barbarian-y' enough, I'll repeat my suggestion from our playtests. There needs to be a mechanic for spending more points than you have, trading HP or Ability Burn for 'instant use' rage points.
Finally, I have to strongly disagree with those who claim that the Barbarian is the 'newbie' class and should be kept simple for that reason. No class should be relegated to this status and anyone who couldn't add up their rage points should ask for help from the rest of the group. They should, after all, be willing to help the newbie. And 'newbie' doesn't mean 'stupid', plus what if they wanted to play the Wizard - with the Str. and Con. rage adjustments etc., I'd argue that's simpler.
Long live Rage Points!
Peace,
tfad