But I've encountered a lot of roleplayers who frown upon cross gender play. Some of those do because they lack the imagination to pretend to be of the opposite sex.Others frown because they had players being very-very bad at playing females. *sigh*
Slowly the trauma (I am exaggerating, I admit) passes and now I am more open to allow playing opposite sex at my table than, say, ten years ago. No one asked for that in years, however.
In my experience bad roleplayers play bad no matter what.
If you don't let them play bad crossgender they play something else bad instead. But that may be subjective.
They played males decently.
I have an ARG built race that is just a trimmed down Faun... They are fun.
I have an ARG built race that is just a trimmed down Faun... They are fun.
My Skull & Shackles group are all ARG-built characters, and one of them is playing a seasinger bard faun.
Sadly, he's often mistaken for a satyr...and just had his horns cut off for material components...
Ouch... What Spell is that for?
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Ouch... What Spell is that for?
Metamagic component for an enchantment spell. Big question of the night was "...Will they grow back? ;_; "
They played males decently.But I've encountered a lot of roleplayers who frown upon cross gender play. Some of those do because they lack the imagination to pretend to be of the opposite sex.Others frown because they had players being very-very bad at playing females. *sigh*
Slowly the trauma (I am exaggerating, I admit) passes and now I am more open to allow playing opposite sex at my table than, say, ten years ago. No one asked for that in years, however.
In my experience bad roleplayers play bad no matter what.
If you don't let them play bad crossgender they play something else bad instead. But that may be subjective.
I'm curious, and I don't mean to be offensive or inciting, but if you had a transgender player, would you require them to play a character of their gender, or a character of their bio-sex?
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Ouch... What Spell is that for?Metamagic component for an enchantment spell. Big question of the night was "...Will they grow back? ;_; "
I would hope so...
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I would hope so...Ouch... What Spell is that for?Metamagic component for an enchantment spell. Big question of the night was "...Will they grow back? ;_; "
...and so begins the quest for a regenerate spell.
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...and so begins the quest for a regenerate spell.I would hope so...Ouch... What Spell is that for?Metamagic component for an enchantment spell. Big question of the night was "...Will they grow back? ;_; "
& Now all I can think of is the Human Horn Episode of Futurama...
I'm curious, and I don't mean to be offensive or inciting, but if you had a transgender player, would you require them to play a character of their gender, or a character of their bio-sex?They played males decently.But I've encountered a lot of roleplayers who frown upon cross gender play. Some of those do because they lack the imagination to pretend to be of the opposite sex.Others frown because they had players being very-very bad at playing females. *sigh*
Slowly the trauma (I am exaggerating, I admit) passes and now I am more open to allow playing opposite sex at my table than, say, ten years ago. No one asked for that in years, however.
In my experience bad roleplayers play bad no matter what.
If you don't let them play bad crossgender they play something else bad instead. But that may be subjective.
If I ever had such players it would be their choice.
Also, I do not require - I am just wary of men playing women and any such instance would be subject to more scrutiny than playing character of the same gender as the player. Also, I have much less bias against the reverse situation, when woman wants to play male character.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would hope so...Ouch... What Spell is that for?Metamagic component for an enchantment spell. Big question of the night was "...Will they grow back? ;_; "
We actually researched goat horn regrowth at the table as the closest real-world analog. The result was, "...maybe. If the flesh wasn't too damaged in the removal."
Wait... Did they remove the Base/Heart of the Horns or just trimmed them short?
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Wait... Did they remove the Base/Heart of the Horns or just trimmed them short?
That's what they get to find out... IN THE NEXT EPISODE! BWAH HAH HAH HAH!
Oh man... Hopefully you don't remove them, otherwise hopefully he doesn't suffer to much from having the Base/Heart removed...
NOTE: Removing the heart of the Horns has only successfully been done to a Goat/Ram once. Even then the subject died of an infection. The rest... well it isn't pretty...
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I hope that poor faun gets to be horny again soon. ;_;
I can't believe I missed the chance to make this joke...
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I hope that poor faun gets to be horny again soon. ;_;
He keeps trying, but Master Scourge isn't responding too well to his advances. The crew didn't take to well to his dirge about his lost...uh, horniness either.
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The crew didn't take to well to his dirge about his lost...uh, horniness either.
...how does a bard roll a 1 on his first perform check in the campaign? I mean, seriously?
/threadjack
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[Self-plug warning]The skindancers in Wayfinder #7 can assume either gender, and reproduce as mother or father. It was cut for word count, but there is way for other humanoids to become skindancers (basically functions like a limited reincarnate). PM me for the write-up. And no gnomes are involved.[/in joke][/Self-plug warning]
I fully endorse this race and have already embedded them in our Shattered Star campaign plans. They're a very cool race and fit perfectly into their area's history. And they bring a lot to the table to play with in terms of history, culture, and fantastic mindsets.
If you haven't written the character yet, I'd like to share an idea. A male cecaelia hedge witch and a handsome, young, Bonuwat fisherman.
I love the cecaelias. Normally, I don't like monstrous races (PC with racial HD), but I'd like to play a cecaelia someday.
Got it! Basic backstory's already taken shape. :)
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Before you say, but why don't they get a job while presenting as the birth gender they feel highly dysphoric about, ask some transgendered people how very soul-destroying that can be.
Alan Moore's Hypothetical Lizard was one of the most depressing stories I've read involving this. Seriously, have a chaser ready for afterwards.
Pugwampis (and all gremlins) for that matter have one of the oddest means of reproducing in the book. It's certainly one of the ones least compatible with interspecies breeding.
Oh thank God.
I'm curious, and I don't mean to be offensive or inciting, but if you had a transgender player, would you require them to play a character of their gender, or a character of their bio-sex?If I ever had such players it would be their choice.
Also, I do not require - I am just wary of men playing women and any such instance would be subject to more scrutiny than playing character of the same gender as the player. Also, I have much less bias against the reverse situation, when woman wants to play male character.
Speaking as a gamemaster who doesn't allow crossplaying outside of certain games*, I think it's less an issue of males vs. females and more players coming into the game as a way of expressing sexual baggage. We all know a few bad players who bring aspects of their person a little bit too harshly into the limelight via the game, and using the game as a sex fantasy is merely one of the most extreme manifestations of the phenomenon.
In particular, the incident which spurred me to put a limit on crossplaying--and for every GM I know who limits crossplaying, there's ALWAYS a "the incident"--was when a female player made a point of being indignant that my burlier male NPCs weren't going out of their way to sexually take advantage of her character.
We all have the horror story about the GM who threatens a player character with rape, well this was the opposite: it was a player who was getting angry at me because I wasn't raping her character. The moment when I realized what was happening that game went on "indefinite hiatus" as soon as you can say "damage control." The other players in that game still never played another tabletop RPG ever again, so it wasn't very effective damage control, but I tried.
Suffice to say, although I recognize on a surface level that most people can probably crossplay just fine, it's very hard for me to look at a crossplayer now and not assume that there's an element of sexual fantasy.
*certain games meaning games in which a character's sex actually forbids them certain roles, like the Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying Game, or games in which fluid sexuality and gender are so ubiquitous as to be functionally meaningless, like Eclipse Phase.
Suffice to say, although I recognize on a surface level that most people can probably crossplay just fine, it's very hard for me to look at a crossplayer now and not assume that there's an element of sexual fantasy.
Yeah, while I'm fine with romantic plots and hooks, and some degree of NPC + PC romance, in game, sex is pretty much right out, or at the very least, fade to black.
So crossplay for sexual fantasy? I'm right with you; it's out. Crossplay for identity fantasy/exploration? I'm happy to oblige. I'm not going to allow guys to play stereotypical dwarves or elves and then shoot down a player who wants to crossplay for non-sexual reasons. It can be a great way for the player (and group) to blow off steam, explore roles otherwise forbidden/shamed in the real world, and occasionally accidentally maybe develop a little empathy for what the other side goes through (good and bad). But as you mentioned, it only works when the group is respectful.
In particular, the incident which spurred me to put a limit on crossplaying--and for every GM I know who limits crossplaying, there's ALWAYS a "the incident"--was when a female player made a point of being indignant that my burlier male NPCs weren't going out of their way to sexually take advantage of her character.
We all have the horror story about the GM who threatens a player character with rape, well this was the opposite: it was a player who was getting angry at me because I wasn't raping her character. The moment when I realized what was happening that game went on "indefinite hiatus" as soon as you can say "damage control." The other players in that game still never played another tabletop RPG ever again, so it wasn't very effective damage control, but I tried.
Was the player female or the character? I'm a little confused.
Was the player female or the character? I'm a little confused.
The player was female, the character a slim, teenaged male, described as having "anime-like" features.
Was the player female or the character? I'm a little confused.The player was female, the character a slim, teenaged male, described as having "anime-like" features.
Yaoi-fan. That explains everything...
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As for allowing players to crossplay,I'm ok with it as long as it is for the roleplay experience but I tend to frown upon the usual male player who wants to play the generic nymphomaniac,huge breasted,lesbian barbarian!
But I once had a female player that played a female lesbian barbarian and it was a memorable experience in forgotten realms,her burgeoning love affair with the young priestess of Liira was one of the most romantic things I have ever seen(and both players were straight)!
So in the end,when you have good players who know they are here to roleplay,allow them to do what they want,you can be pleasantly surprised and if it doesn't work,well,at least you tried!
Y'know, "yaoi fangirls" get picked on for gushing and getting all "D'AWWWW" over melodramatic m-m romance, but guys can be just as guilty of getting misty over the opposite, beyond just the "it's hot" aspect. If "tastefully written lesbian barbarian romance" was a genre in literature or manga....yeah, I'd probably be following it.
If only happy endings weren't so damned rare!
Speaking as a gamemaster who doesn't allow crossplaying outside of certain games*, I think it's less an issue of males vs. females and more players coming into the game as a way of expressing sexual baggage. We all know a few bad players who bring aspects of their person a little bit too harshly into the limelight via the game, and using the game as a sex fantasy is merely one of the most extreme manifestations of the phenomenon.
In particular, the incident which spurred me to put a limit on crossplaying--and for every GM I know who limits crossplaying, there's ALWAYS a "the incident"--was when a female player made a point of being indignant that my burlier male NPCs weren't going out of their way to sexually take advantage of her character.
We all have the horror story about the GM who threatens a player character with rape, well this was the opposite: it was a player who was getting angry at me because I wasn't raping her character. The moment when I realized what was happening that game went on "indefinite hiatus" as soon as you can say "damage control." The other players in that game still never played another tabletop RPG ever again, so it wasn't very effective damage control, but I tried.
Suffice to say, although I recognize on a surface level that most people can probably crossplay just fine, it's very hard for me to look at a crossplayer now and not assume that there's an element of sexual fantasy....
That can (and will) happen, but as a game master, a certain amount of understanding and empathy is required to play other-gendered NPCs appropriately. I think players (at least the ones I game with) can be just as sensitive, probably more than I.
That being said when I play (which isn't often, I'm almost always GM), I do tend to play lizardfolk or whatever Non- or minutely- gendered option is available. When I'm GMing it doesn't occur to me to have sex or romance be a central theme. Needless to say running pathfinder has been an eye-opening experience.
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On the topic of the magic and supernatural elements of Golarion throwing all sorts of new angles on gender and identity...just had this character pop in my head. I think it's sympathetic, but it probably would be a bit more twisted than many would feel comfortable with.
The eidolon's evolutions are handled in typical kyton/Kuthonite fashion, and is seen by the summoner as a work in progress as it is constantly disassembled and sewn back together in new configurations both beautiful and terrible. The summoner starts projecting a lot onto this eidolon, a being outside him/herself that remains ever loyal throughout all of this. S/he removes and installs parts and pieces, trying to find perfection and often getting frustrated in the process. And the whole time the eidolon patiently suffers through it.
And eventually the summoner, through those shared aspect abilities, begins taking on aspects of the eidolon. S/he would gradually come to realize that that eidolon is not a being entirely separate from him/herself, but a portion of their very soul. Possibly the core of their entire being. And what s/he is crafting is the identity s/he wishes s/he were.
Maybe with a sublte change in faiths or interpretation of faiths or some other forms of character growth, the summoner finally accepts him/herself and begins transitioning healthily, becoming closer in body and soul to the eidolon(again represented by those high end abilities). The crafting of evolutions onto the eidolon become less Kuthonite and tone and perhaps more Shelynite, or something in-between.
Admittedly angsty as hell, but I'm a sucker for sympathetic members of that particular faith. :)
On the topic of the magic and supernatural elements of Golarion throwing all sorts of new angles on gender and identity...just had this character pop in my head. I think it's sympathetic, but it probably would be a bit more twisted than many would feel comfortable with.
** spoiler omitted **
Admittedly angsty as hell, but I'm a sucker for sympathetic members of that particular faith. :)
See, that is the kind of thing that my players would enjoy, but I have a hard time coming up with myself.
So crossplay for sexual fantasy? I'm right with you; it's out. Crossplay for identity fantasy/exploration? I'm happy to oblige. I'm not going to allow guys to play stereotypical dwarves or elves and then shoot down a player who wants to crossplay for non-sexual reasons. It can be a great way for the player (and group) to blow off steam, explore roles otherwise forbidden/shamed in the real world, and occasionally accidentally maybe develop a little empathy for what the other side goes through (good and bad). But as you mentioned, it only works when the group is respectful.Yeah. Whoa. I like both sex and gaming. If consenting adults agree that they are going to engage either in sex or in gaming, in any ways or configurations they enjoy, that's cool. But whichever one they consent to and are expecting, it is No Fair to surprise them with the other thing.
Bringing porn and overt sexual acts or fantasies into a social situation with people who didn't sign up for that is majorly creepy and inappropriate. If you want to do sexual roleplaying, by all means go have fun, but only with other consenting adults. There's words for people who try to do explicit sex stuff with people who don't consent, and none of them are at all nice. Doesn't matter what the orientation is.
I agree with you. I gamed with an online group via chat, and in our all-elven Second Darkness, the female rogue (played by a woman) slept with the acolyte of Serenrae in Riddleport. She and the DM roleplayed the sex, and frankly it was really creepy. Me and another female player commented via private chat on the weirdness of it, but it only happened once an it was really late at night so we didn't raise a fuss.
With another DM, and the same players, I played a gay aasimar cleric of Shelyn that flirted with everybody, but I talked beforehand with the other players and DM, to make sure it wouldn't make anyone uncomfortable.
On the matter of crossplaying, my first D&D character as a female elf druid and in World of Darkness it was a Lasombra woman. And since then, I've had more female characters than male. And I've never had any issue with any of them.
On the thread as a whole, I really like how Paizo handles queer and non-cisgendered NPCs in Golarion, although, of course, I'd like more hot man on man action (Ileosa/Sabina in CotCT and Calistrian/Young Noblewoman in Kingmaker are fine, but not really my thing)!
If it relates, the subject of how high magic/fantastic elements would affect sexuality seems ripe for discussion.
Nex alone raises a lot of possibilities. Possibly all of the possibilities.
...and this is why I missed this thread, among others.
So crossplay for sexual fantasy? I'm right with you; it's out. Crossplay for identity fantasy/exploration? I'm happy to oblige. I'm not going to allow guys to play stereotypical dwarves or elves and then shoot down a player who wants to crossplay for non-sexual reasons. It can be a great way for the player (and group) to blow off steam, explore roles otherwise forbidden/shamed in the real world, and occasionally accidentally maybe develop a little empathy for what the other side goes through (good and bad). But as you mentioned, it only works when the group is respectful.Yeah. Whoa. I like both sex and gaming. If consenting adults agree that they are going to engage either in sex or in gaming, in any ways or configurations they enjoy, that's cool. But whichever one they consent to and are expecting, it is No Fair to surprise them with the other thing.
Bringing porn and overt sexual acts or fantasies into a social situation with people who didn't sign up for that is majorly creepy and inappropriate. If you want to do sexual roleplaying, by all means go have fun, but only with other consenting adults. There's words for people who try to do explicit sex stuff with people who don't consent, and none of them are at all nice. Doesn't matter what the orientation is.
Agreed. I don't have any issue with any consenting group of gamers exploring whatever they want to explore, but you gotta make sure everyone involved is, in fact, consenting. Your kink is okay, but that doesn't mean I want to participate in it.
Creative Director
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As a GM, I play NPCs of every gender, orientation, race, and philosophy.
I have no qualms about letting players mix things up that way if they want.
In fact, pretty much ALL of my characters these days are female characters. I would drop out of a game where the GM wouldn't let me play a female character.
Is it a kink that I prefer playing female characters?
No more so than it is a kink that a GM plays hundreds of male/female/whatever characters during the course of a game.
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In 2ed D&D, wasn't the girdle of femininity/masculinity a one shot item: it sex-swapped the wearer and then was rendered mundane and un-reusable? Or am I misremembering that? (I can't find my 2e DMG right now.)
Edit: Found it. Yep, one-shot then looses all power.
Under Pathfinder, it (now girdle of opposite sex) only works once per individual, but it retains it power to affect new wearers. Which would mean Golarion trans folk really only need one (or a few) belts and a really good communication/sharing network. They'd still run the 5% risk of becoming sexless, and it wouldn't help those not strongly compelled to one end of the physical sex spectrum. But belt "rentals" would almost certainly be much cheaper than all those Golarion humanoids in need having to each find/buy or research/craft.
Edit 2: Which would be an interesting hook. The PCs are hired to courier the girdle to the next renter, or retrieve it from an individual (even a previous renter) who stole/kept one and decided to go into the rental biz themselves.
Or, some baron & baroness or merchant lord family zapped a younger child with the girdle at a young age for a prearranged marriage, and now the child as an adult was accidentally restored to their birth sex just before marriage by an accidental dispel/deliberate break curse. Not only is the marriage/alliance in jeopardy, the adult desperately wants to be recurseed (re-girdled) back to the gender that matches their identity.
Or, some newly "cursed" individual is happily enjoying their post-girdle life. Except the girdle worked a little too well: the transformee makes one or more same-sex members of their community (or a sibling) jealous because the transformee turned out "too" beautiful/handsome and they feel too plain. Or they are fearful that the transformee may "steal" a significant other/spouse away.
Edit 3: Hell, maybe some darn teenagers found a girdle in the sewers/catacombs under a small city or a nearby cemetery crypt. Being rebellious and after a bit too much mead/wine stolen from a parent, they pass it around at some party/medieval rave. The PCs are hired to figure out what caused the "Maiden Plague" and cure the affected youths... hopefully after making sure they really do want to swap back. And none of them got pregnant.
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More "girdle hooks":
6?) Derros, during their experiments, summon a demon (a succubus) for a little Abyssal knowledge/insight on biology/physiology. Eventually, the succubus resents being summoned or working with such creatures, scrounges up a girdle, and tells them how to modify it to also turn the wearer into a derro. With their new girdle, the derros excitedly wait for nightfall to start abducting fresh humans from the city above for transformation/"research." It shouldn't require too many subjects to perfect the derrofication part of the process.
7a) Mayor B. Ombastic: "Dang it, it's the solstice again. We need to pick a maiden to sacrifice to the Accursed Beast of Backwatersburg."
Bob Maggot: "Well don't look at me. All we've got at the orphanage of the right age are boys... {mumbling loudly} too darn many to feed and cloth as it is."
Tim "the Unscrupulous Enchanter" (resident wizard): "Gentlemen, I think I have an item in storage that might solve both problems at once."
7b) Mayor B. Ombastic: "Dang it, it's the solstice again. We need to pick a maiden to sacrifice to the Accursed Beast of Backwatersburg."
Bob Maggot: "Well don't look at me. I need my three girls to help me run the tavern and inn, especially since my wife died... {mumbling loudly} another bunch of stuck-up adventurers rode in at noon, and they're already complaining about the food and beds and beer. That damn human, Valeros Something-or-other, won't shut up about the beer!"
Tim "the Unscrupulous Enchanter" (resident wizard): "Gentlemen, I think I have an item in storage that might solve both problems at once."
I shudder at the thought of a girdle of derro-ification.
I realize it may just be me, but I have a severely adverse reaction to the concept of chesty nagas/lizardfolk/etc.
Edit: ...and for a little bit of math. It would take 14 girdles to have a better than 50% chance to become genderless.
There's a long tradition of that in South Asian art.I realize it may just be me, but I have a severely adverse reaction to the concept of chesty nagas/lizardfolk/etc.
Edit: ...and for a little bit of math. It would take 14 girdles to have a better than 50% chance to become genderless.
I actually don't have a problem with those that have mammalian torsos. I was more referring to fully reptilian species being given mammalian sexual characteristics.
Contributor
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I actually don't have a problem with those that have mammalian torsos. I was more referring to fully reptilian species being given mammalian sexual characteristics.There's a long tradition of that in South Asian art.I realize it may just be me, but I have a severely adverse reaction to the concept of chesty nagas/lizardfolk/etc.
Edit: ...and for a little bit of math. It would take 14 girdles to have a better than 50% chance to become genderless.
Ah. That's not something that comes to mind as being in any RW pre-modern tradition I know of. Some come close in the bird and fish families, like harpies and sirens, but they generally are sporting the torso.
I dislike that 3.5/Pathfinder Nagas don't have arms.