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Something I don't like about the Alpha 2 release is the way in which ability score boosting items and effects have been modified. I have two specific examples.
1) The effects of the Wish spell. Wish can be used to give an inherent boost to an ability score as before, except now anytime you do that you have to lower a different ability score. This in effect fixes your ability scores to their base numbers. If you are a Wizard that wants to boos intelligence, no problem but you will lower something else to do it. I guess I don't understand the reasoning here. Is wish just a way to rearrange your ability scores? If so I guess I understand that, but why is this unbalancing the way it was before? This wouldn't be particularly bothersome if not for my second problem.
2) Characters can now only wear 2 items that boost ability scores, a physical booster in the belt slot, and a mental booster in the head slot. I get where you guys are coming from on wanting characters to use cool magic items and not just sell them off to add more stat boosters, but having this limited to two, and with only one of each mental and physical ability bites. If I am a fighter, I can't boost Constitution and Strength. I have to pick one or the other, and then give myself a boost to something like Intelligence or Wisdom that is far less useful than more hitpoints or better attacks and damage. If I am a Wizard, I can boost Intelligence, but then I have to pick between Con and Dex. Does anyone else see the problem with this? I don't have a problem with limiting the number of boostable abilities to 2, but I think the player should have the choice of any 2 abilities they want to boost. Maybe I want Intelligence and Charisma instead of Intelligence and Con. As a Barbarian I likely want Strength and Con and have littel use for any of the 3 mental stats.
Conceptually, encouraging players to use items other than stat boosters in their item slots is a good one. In practice though, limiting it to two and breaking those two into separate categories is very unflexible. If you want to eliminate the whole "every item to boost a stat" mentality, then eliminate those items all together but add more ability boosts as part of normal level advancement. Instead of gainging 1 ability score point boost every 4 levels, maybe make it 2 or 3 every 4 levels but without any stat boosting items. If you want to keep the stat advancement by level the way it is, then you have to make the stat boost from magic items more flexible. At least allow any of the 6 scores to fit into either of the two slots. Or better yet, keep the stat boosting items the way they were in 3.5 but limit the number you can wear total to 2 or 3.
Anyway, I don't know that I have the answer, but the limitations on boosting stats seem overly restrictive to me.
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2) Characters can now only wear 2 items that boost ability scores, a physical booster in the belt slot, and a mental booster in the head slot. I get where you guys are coming from on wanting characters to use cool magic items and not just sell them off to add more stat boosters, but having this limited to two, and with only one of each mental and physical ability bites. If I am a fighter, I can't boost Constitution and Strength. I have to pick one or the other, and then give myself a boost to something like Intelligence or Wisdom that is far less useful than more hitpoints or better attacks and damage. If I am a Wizard, I can boost Intelligence, but then I have to pick between Con and Dex. Does anyone else see the problem with this? I don't have a problem with limiting the number of boostable abilities to 2, but I think the player should have the choice of any 2 abilities they want to boost. Maybe I want Intelligence and Charisma instead of Intelligence and Con. As a Barbarian I likely want Strength and Con and have little use for any of the 3 mental stats.
My understanding is you can still boost more than one stat, but you need to have one uber-item that will cost more (50% more for each ability, to be precise).
I would be sad to see Gauntlets of Ogre Power go, though ...
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I like the limiter of two items, one physical and one mental, but I dont think they should be assign to specific slots. Belts make sense for Con and even for Str, but a belt that makes you more agile? That seems wonky. The head slot I can live with, but I'd say make the items be limited to belt or vest for Con, belt or gloves for Str, gloves or boots for Dex, head or amulet for Int,Wis, & Cha. So each stat has two possible slots it can take up. Other wise specific neat use magic items that are belts or head slots are going to become non-existant as no one will want to waste one of those slots on something kinda neat and sacrifice their ability to boost a stat.
I have only just began looking through Alpha 2 and this is one thing my fellow players are going to hate
They like to bump up there stats
I think this really screws the melee characters more then casters most good front line characters need multiple high physical stats but casters ussally only need one
In all the games we have played (multiples up to 20th level) this has never been a concern of the players or the DMs
In the item creation rules there are methods for applying stat boosts to other items that fit into other slots.
So, you can have your gloves of dex... so long as they were gloves of storing first and you put the dex on them. Which, in my view, is the perfect solution to the issue. Make it so that players can combine commonly sought after effects (stat boosts, AC boosts, save boosts) to more interesting items. (The Magic Item Compendium has rules for this similar to the crafting rules in Alpha 2).
The limit of only 2 items as a base seems arbitrarily limiting... and an unnecessary additional step to open up those item slots. If characters can already take that pair of gloves of storing they found and add a bonus to dex to them, then they don't necessarily have to sell the gloves of storing to keep their dex bonus.
My other concern here is with backward compatibility. There are a lot of 3.5 books by Wizards... and most if not all have magic items... many of which grant ability bonuses. How are those magic items going to be used in this system? And, as I said before, Magic Item Compendium covers this... so for a group that has that in their library... and the Alpha 2 rules... how does the conflict get resolved?
As for the 3 buffs at a time rule. As a wizard I don't like to spend a lot of time casting buffs on myself. But when I do, it's usually pretty easy to keep track of what is going on. So, I don't see how this rule solves a problem. Alternatively, it seems higher level encounters (I'm thinking of a one-shot session my group did against a Gargantuan Black Dragon) really need all the buffs you can get. Mage Armor, Grtr, Shield, Aura of Evasion and Energy Resistance would all be good to start... then what happens if someone casts contingency on themselves (lasts a week, if memory serves)... or fly to move around the battlefield. This just seems to be very limiting and likely to lead to a lot more character deaths. Although, now that a True Res. can be done for the price of 5100 gold, I guess that's no big deal.
I too am somewhat concerned about the limit of 2 ability boosters. I like that slots have been opened up for other items (it always bothered me that the Sorcerer would have to choose between a Cloak of Charisma and a Cloak of Protection, for example), but being unable to raise two physical or two mental stats hurts somewhat.
Perhaps the ability boosters should be changed just slightly. Have a "Belt of Physical Prowess" and a "Headband of Mental Prowess". Each has three slots to hold a magical gem, and is normally found with a single gem already embedded in the "center" position. Of course, each gem is tied to a specific attribute - Strength, Constitution, Dexterity for the belt, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma for the headband. Gems can be removed from other belts/headbands found to "combine" the attribute modifiers (for example, you could put magical gems in a belt that grants a +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity and +6 Constitution).
You could even get into some optional rules: The position and/or color of the gem determines which ability score is buffed (allowing you to move the gem around to your liking) and/or perhaps the position & size of the gem determines the bonus (central [big gem] grants +6, right position [average] grants +4, left position [small] grants +2). Perhaps the "gems" are a form of lesser ioun stones?
I really do not like this Rule since I tend to play alot of melee Characters and they need Con and Str or Dex depending on what Character. As usual the casters get it easy.
I like the limiter of two items, one physical and one mental, but I dont think they should be assign to specific slots. Belts make sense for Con and even for Str, but a belt that makes you more agile? That seems wonky.
While I'm not 100% certain on how I feel about the slot limits, I would ask how having a belt that makes you healthier and/or stronger innately "makes sense". At some point the explanation boils down to "its magic". I can see what you're saying, but I still have to disagree.
On the other hand, since the Magic Item Compendium I've never had a "simple buff" item. The most "simple buff" item I had were a set of Gloves of Strength, Dexterity, and Knives (or something like that - I don't remember exactly). The Knives part was more of a "I've got a fallback if I'm disarmed" thing, so it didn't come up very often. Still, the new system allows you your basic boosters while still making magical items generally a lot more interesting than a "Naval Ring of Natural Armor +3". Okay, the belly-button ring of armor is kinda neat, but still... [URL=smurf][/URL]
On the other hand, since the Magic Item Compendium I've never had a "simple buff" item. The most "simple buff" item I had were a set of Gloves of Strength, Dexterity, and Knives (or something like that - I don't remember exactly). The Knives part was more of a "I've got a fallback if I'm disarmed" thing, so it didn't come up very often. Still, the new system allows you your basic boosters while still making magical items generally a lot more interesting than a "Naval Ring of Natural Armor +3". Okay, the belly-button ring of armor is kinda neat, but still... [URL=smurf][/URL]
Exactly! I've got 3 of the veils from the Magic Item Compendium's set of 7 Veils (forget what it's called now). The veil on my head gives me a bonus to Int, another has natural armor added to it, and then I have a pair of gloves of entanglement with Dex.
With easy rules for customization... the limit to 2 slots is completely unnecessary.
Director of Game Design
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Ah, I knew this thread would come. Although some groups certainly encourage pushing around your ability score boosts using item creation and other rules, many do not. This is especially true when you are running games out of published adventures. This rule was designed specifically with the mind to open up some of the other slots to allow all PCs to play with some of the cool items that are out there.
That said, I also understand the need for a fighter to have a better Str and Con. In the next release, you will see some belts and headbands that boost two or even all three stats. I am on it.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ah, I knew this thread would come. Although some groups certainly encourage pushing around your ability score boosts using item creation and other rules, many do not. This is especially true when you are running games out of published adventures. This rule was designed specifically with the mind to open up some of the other slots to allow all PCs to play with some of the cool items that are out there.
That said, I also understand the need for a fighter to have a better Str and Con. In the next release, you will see some belts and headbands that boost two or even all three stats. I am on it.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Crisis averted.
I was under the impression that after you wore the stat booster for 24 hours, it became a permanent increase (until it's inevitably dispelled *evil DM grin*), so a party could invest in one item of each stat boost, take turns wearing it, and boost all of their stats. Is that incorrect?
Cause if my reading was right, I was gonna have fun boosting hobgoblin raiding parties that all had worn their regiment's belt of giant strength.
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Director of Game Design
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I was under the impression that after you wore the stat booster for 24 hours, it became a permanent increase (until it's inevitably dispelled *evil DM grin*), so a party could invest in one item of each stat boost, take turns wearing it, and boost all of their stats. Is that incorrect?
Cause if my reading was right, I was gonna have fun boosting hobgoblin raiding parties that all had worn their regiment's belt of giant strength.
It boost as long as you are wearing it. The 24 hour delay it to prevent the Int headband from being passed around as a free bag of skill points.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ah, I knew this thread would come. Although some groups certainly encourage pushing around your ability score boosts using item creation and other rules, many do not. This is especially true when you are running games out of published adventures. This rule was designed specifically with the mind to open up some of the other slots to allow all PCs to play with some of the cool items that are out there.
That said, I also understand the need for a fighter to have a better Str and Con. In the next release, you will see some belts and headbands that boost two or even all three stats. I am on it.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Jason - I appreciate your chiming in on these discussions.
I have a question though... If the design of the game encourages customizing items to add stat boosts, won't that avoid the problem? For example, in the Wonderous items section, have a sidebar recommending addition of stat boosts and deflection and natural armor and resistance bonuses to equipment. Throw in your examples of equipment with multiple stats covered (great idea)... and then see what happens with game play? Starting off by both limiting and urging crafting seems to be testing two different theories of game design without isolating either variable to see how well it works at achieving the desired result.
Think of the power of the ion stones now (the plus two stat ones sure are looking alot better now)
I'm not worried about the magic item stuff - that's simple enough...
I must say the change to Wish is both very anti-backwards compatible, and doesn't mesh with D&D history at all. Not fond of the three spell thing either, but that's far more a flavor issue.
Thanks to the OP for bringing this to my attention.
Wha..huh? Please elaborate.Yeah, but these limits would make the stat boosting spells more useful at higher levels.Up until you encounter the max number of spells rule they suggested
I think he's talking about the Optional Rule: Limiting Enhancement, on page 65.
The thing people seem to be forgetting is that even with stat boosting items being limited to two slots, you can still add a second or third stat to the items in question.
If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a
character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability
to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character
adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection
+2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating
a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
So you can still have your belt that increases you Strength, Dex, and Con. It will just cost more in the long run.
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I think he's talking about something else, that doesn't seem to be relevant to his comment.
It is relevant. The initial problem was "I can only boost 2 stats with items!"
The reply was "That just makes Bull's Strength (or whatever) more useful!"But then comes the optional rule of limiting the active spells on a person to 3.
If a fighter wants to boost Str and Con, he must choose which one to buy an item for. If he wants to boost the other with a spell, he might be put in a position where he has to give up another buff in order to get the stat buff he wants.
For example, a fighter wants to increase Con. He's wearing a Belt of Strength, and has had Freedom of Movement, Waterbreathing, and Resist Energy: Acid cast on him for the upcoming battle with the black dragon in its watery lair.
If the DM is utilizing the limited enhancement optional rule, the fighter must choose which boost he wants to give up in order to boost his Con.
Now, admittedly, the rule is optional, and having 3 buffs on you at a time doesn't happen regularly until high levels, and I'm not even sure what side of the argument I'm on. :-p
However, it is relevant.
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I'm sorry I misunderstood, I thought when he referenced the optional rule on pg. 65, that he was talking about the same thing he then posted below that. I'm a dofus for not reading fully.
Two things, one; thats an optional rule. Two; if you have two items that boost your stats AND up to three boosting spells, you can still boost 5 of your six ability scores, if you were so inclined.
Plus with Jason having now said that he will be including multi-boost items, the problem basically disappears.
Going back to the concern of what item makes "sense" for which item slot, I'm not just making this up, there are established rules/limits concerning this: Body Slot Affinities
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Hmmm... so you can wear *both* a headband and a helmet? Or did I misunderstood it?
As a DM I certainly like that you can only get boosts to two stats, and I don't think my players will complain about it, either.
By the way, Jason, instead of getting a stat increase at every 4th level, would it be possible to get a +1 bonus to *all* stats at 8th and 16th level and +1 to a single stat at 4th, 12th and 20th level? Thoughts?
Hmmm... so you can wear *both* a headband and a helmet? Or did I misunderstood it?
As a DM I certainly like that you can only get boosts to two stats, and I don't think my players will complain about it, either.
By the way, Jason, instead of getting a stat increase at every 4th level, would it be possible to get a +1 bonus to *all* stats at 8th and 16th level and +1 to a single stat at 4th, 12th and 20th level? Thoughts?
What that section is talking about are the affinities associated with items. The items are then allocated to their relative body slot (headband & helmet = head slot - OR - Vest and shirt = Torso slot - ETC.)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Ah, I knew this thread would come. Although some groups certainly encourage pushing around your ability score boosts using item creation and other rules, many do not. This is especially true when you are running games out of published adventures. This rule was designed specifically with the mind to open up some of the other slots to allow all PCs to play with some of the cool items that are out there.
That said, I also understand the need for a fighter to have a better Str and Con. In the next release, you will see some belts and headbands that boost two or even all three stats. I am on it.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Was there any consideration given to abandoning stat bump items and slotting in more stat bumps as part of character progression generally? If you gave a +1 to any stat every other level with a cap, that'd probably get you pretty close. Then you could reduce treasure per level to take out the stat bumping items. Stat bumping items are so dull. Granted, Paizo has shown a flair for making them more interesting (the snakeskin vest in a recent adventure is a good example).
I guess ultimately I'd rather have some more exotic and flavorful stat bump items that cost a little more but came with some ancillary abilities.
Ok, you could use the Saga rule of two +1 bonuses every 4 levels, that can't be applied to the same stat at any given level.
That is a thought, though I think if someone should gain an additional abilty boost should be the fighter...
An additional +1 every 4th level (the same as the regular stat progression all characters get), which may only be applied to either Str, Dex, or Con.
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What that section is talking about are the affinities associated with items. The items are then allocated to their relative body slot (headband & helmet = head slot - OR - Vest and shirt = Torso slot - ETC.)Hmmm... so you can wear *both* a headband and a helmet? Or did I misunderstood it?
As a DM I certainly like that you can only get boosts to two stats, and I don't think my players will complain about it, either.
By the way, Jason, instead of getting a stat increase at every 4th level, would it be possible to get a +1 bonus to *all* stats at 8th and 16th level and +1 to a single stat at 4th, 12th and 20th level? Thoughts?
Ah, my bad -- I only briefly read it through. Thanks for the clarification!
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That is a thought, though I think if someone should gain an additional abilty boost should be the fighter...
An additional +1 every 4th level (the same as the regular stat progression all characters get), which may only be applied to either Str, Dex, or Con.
If you're going to do this, I'd give it to everyone. I don't see how fighter is in anymore need of high stats than anyone else.
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If you're going to do this, I'd give it to everyone. I don't see how fighter is in anymore need of high stats than anyone else.That is a thought, though I think if someone should gain an additional abilty boost should be the fighter...
An additional +1 every 4th level (the same as the regular stat progression all characters get), which may only be applied to either Str, Dex, or Con.
I agree, it should definitely be for everyone. Yet what if it wouldn't be a boost to every stat, but rather to three "class-related" stats, such as STR, CON and WIS for Cleric, STR, DEX and CON for fighter, etc.?
Actually, I like it.
I guessed something like this would happen: The races are more powerful now. The classes are more powerful. Characters get a couple of extra feats. Personal power is on the rise.
Now, magic items and other permanent boosts are being toned down as compensation. If it's done right, the overal power level could stay the same, but it would be more because of your abilities, not the stuff you own.
And bull's strength and its brethren spells are more useful now (especially since I think they stack with magic items now, since items are enhancement bonuses, while the spells grant temporary bonuses.
And beyond that, it's true that with this change, items that are interesting instead of just powerful get another chance.
And you can still get gloves of dexterity and so on - you just have to pay a bit more for them. It's not a 4e-like restriction. It's choice and consequence, with some options discouraged - but never forbidden.
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Actually, I like it.
I guessed something like this would happen: The races are more powerful now. The classes are more powerful. Characters get a couple of extra feats. Personal power is on the rise.
Now, magic items and other permanent boosts are being toned down as compensation. If it's done right, the overal power level could stay the same, but it would be more because of your abilities, not the stuff you own.
And bull's strength and its brethren spells are more useful now (especially since I think they stack with magic items now, since items are enhancement bonuses, while the spells grant temporary bonuses.
And beyond that, it's true that with this change, items that are interesting instead of just powerful get another chance.
And you can still get gloves of dexterity and so on - you just have to pay a bit more for them. It's not a 4e-like restriction. It's choice and consequence, with some options discouraged - but never forbidden.
Good thought - and well said - with the onus on making characters more powerful and needing less magic is something I've often contemplated. It was one of the only things that attracted me to upcoming 4th edition.
here's something that I had flirted with trying in my next campaign I'm beginning at the start of 09 (probably be AoW).
keep in mind that my homebrew world has sub-races of elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and humans.
What I was going to do is have each race and/or sub-race have two stats to start off with a +2 bonus. One stat is arbitrary (Con for Dwarf for instance) and the bonus to the stat is players choice.
The difference mainly is that these bonuses are "Enhancement Bonuses" At every 4th level, each of these stats increase by +1 "enhancment".
This does two things - its cuts down on needs/uses of buff spells, and stat-boosting items; and it cuts down on the power increase seen by stacking an enhancement item on top of a stat that has been being raised every 4 levels.
If you had a character with an 18 at 1st level - raising it to 20 with the racial mod would end his career with a 25 in that stat.
If you compare that to an elf that starts with a 20 dex, and improves it to 25 via his stat increases and then wears a +6 Gloves - would have a 31.
Finally magical items of enhancement wont stack of course - but I intended to change the STAT BUFF spells (Bull Strength) to a 1 rd / level duration of Competence bonus. So it doesn't last very long - but could for very short durations boost that enhanced stat up a little more.
Ultimately - it's cutting down on the magic items. Which sounds like a theme game-publishers are headed.
The system isnt perfect and isn't playtested yet - but I think the concept has merit.
Robert
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I didn't realize Bulls Strength and the like would now stack with enhancement bonuses. That changes my opinion a bit. I also hadn't thought about putting stat boosts on other items at 50% greater cost, although every game I have ever played in hasn't allowed that sort of combining of magic items. In truth I only usually invest in 3 stat boosting items in any given game. The specific stats depend on the character, but when I play a fighter I always want my Str, Dex, and Con to be as high as possible. With Wizards I usually want Int, Dex, and one of Con or Cha depending on the type of wizard I am playing. If I want a battle mage I take Con and if I am playing a scholar/diplomat I want Cha. For Clerics I always want Wis, Cha, and Str.
All of that said, if Jason says he is working on making items that boost multiple stats in the core line that is good enough for me. It solves my concern and allows them to control the availability of such items based on price relative to other item options. I still wish (ha ha) that the Wish Spell would do that, but I understand removing that power as a balance issue now that Wish is a per day ability for Universalist Wizards.
And bull's strength and its brethren spells are more useful now (especially since I think they stack with magic items now, since items are enhancement bonuses, while the spells grant temporary bonuses.
KaeYoss, what are you basing this on? In 3.x, Bull's Strength grants an enhancement bonus.
I think there is an implied contraction between page 109 and 115 - the former implies there are no off-slot stat boosters, but the latter doesn't explicitly exclude them.
I guess it'll come down to playtesting, whether it's worth having the off-slot items like good old gauntlets of ogre power at +50% cost.
PS - I like the optional rule to cap the number of buffs at 3, and the nice thing is that DMs could move that cap around based on their campaign, players, and preferences. I could also see a feat that increases that limit by +2. Interesting and unexpected to limit buffs based on the target, not the caster.
If you're going to do this, I'd give it to everyone. I don't see how fighter is in anymore need of high stats than anyone else.
Well, the reason I recommended it for the Fighter is with the recent upgrades to other melee classes (Paladin & Barbarian), it seems the Fighter is still being viewed as suboptimal.
I offered this option for the Fighter to give it a little more "omph" to compensate for some of the other perks the others gain. Such as the Str and Con boosts from rage. Or a Paladin's spellcasting or "companion spirits".
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Rule Zero is always your prerogative. Don't like the more limited stat affinities? Leave them as-is and let your players make their Gloves of Dex or Cloaks of Cha.
I don't like it when rules decisions are based on this sort of logic.
"Well if you don't like it, then change it to how you want it for your game". The idea I would hope, is to make the game that has the highest utility to the largest number of groups as written. I know that our group does not make many "house" rules because we want to play the game the way it is written to be played. More to the point, house rules mean more to keep track of and it starts to get silly when you apply it to everything. Don't like the way Wish is written, change it. Don't like how fighters work, improve them. If we all had the time to do that sort of thing, we wouldn't be buying a published RPG at all. We could just make up our own games and house rule everything.
It boost as long as you are wearing it. The 24 hour delay it to prevent the Int headband from being passed around as a free bag of skill points.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
If that is your intent Jason, I think that this section should be reworded, because I read the same thing as Vigil. I thought that after 24 hours, the effects became permanent.
KaeYoss, what are you basing this on? In 3.x, Bull's Strength grants an enhancement bonus.
In Pathfinder Alpha 2, it doesn't.
Glossary, Page 116, under Ability Bonuses.
They now only grant "temporary bonuses", since they have a duration of less than a day.
I'd say that enhancement bonuses and temporary bonuses stack, unless it's supposed to be a temporary enhancement bonus that counts as an enhancement bonus for stacking purposes.
The whole thing is still a bit unclear.
KaeYoss, what are you basing this on? In 3.x, Bull's Strength grants an enhancement bonus.In Pathfinder Alpha 2, it doesn't.
Glossary, Page 116, under Ability Bonuses.
They now only grant "temporary bonuses", since they have a duration of less than a day.
I'd say that enhancement bonuses and temporary bonuses stack, unless it's supposed to be a temporary enhancement bonus that counts as an enhancement bonus for stacking purposes.
The whole thing is still a bit unclear.
Really not sure what's unclear here.
This belt has a large iron buckle, usually depicting the image of a bull or other strong animal. The belt grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Strength of +2, +4, or +6.
So for the first 24 hours it is a temporary enhancement bonus and for the rest of the time worn it is a permanent enhancement bonus.
Granted, the difference between permanent and temporary need clarification (does a temporary enhancement to con give you a bonus to hitpoints?).
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You know perhaps the 3 buff limiter doesn't go far enough to enhancing the game. I like the idea but as many have said its not often you see characters running round with multiple buffs until higher levels.
Now buffs are limited, perhaps it would be a good time to retroactively fix buffing spells back to 3.0. bull strength, cats grace and the like would not be so overpowered with longer casting times anymore. this would make the spells more effective at lower levels again. Not only that but with the XP cost gone, low level mages are more likely to stock up of buffing spells through scrolls for their allies (scrolls of mage armor for the monk springs to mind).
You know perhaps the 3 buff limiter doesn't go far enough to enhancing the game. I like the idea but as many have said its not often you see characters running round with multiple buffs until higher levels.
Now buffs are limited, perhaps it would be a good time to retroactively fix buffing spells back to 3.0. bull strength, cats grace and the like would not be so overpowered with longer casting times anymore. this would make the spells more effective at lower levels again. Not only that but with the XP cost gone, low level mages are more likely to stock up of buffing spells through scrolls for their allies (scrolls of mage armor for the monk springs to mind).
Without the buffs, won't TPKs increase at higher levels against tougher monsters designed to fight parties with every conceivable buff and ability enhancement?
I wouldn't want to go up against a Colossal Red Dragon with only 3 buffs and 2 stat boosts.
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My knowledge of the game past 12th is limited since I havent had a game last much past 12th since 2nd edition. What I have seen though is the low level games find it hard to justify pure spellcasters and favors the martial classes almost exclusively.
If the 3 buff limit would be too limiting at higher levels perhaps incorporating feats or even a unique progression to add more buff slots (though the last option would hinder backwards compatability).
I think a better way would be to follow Jason Bulmahn's Thoughts that new higher level magic items would provide multiple stat boosts, theres nothing stopping them from doing the same with spells.
Why not have an advanced version of bark skin that provides a boost to strength as well, or a spell that increases all physical stats?
My knowledge of the game past 12th is limited since I havent had a game last much past 12th since 2nd edition. What I have seen though is the low level games find it hard to justify pure spellcasters and favors the martial classes almost exclusively.
The first game I played in was the Shackled City Adventure Path... and I remember that last fight at about level 20. Every character had every possible buff imagineable going... and we lost badly. We tried it again, the DM played a bit nicer... and it was again a near party wipe.
More recently, we did a one-shot adventure a group of level 20 against a Gargantuan Black Dragon. Again, multiple buffs were used, and we faced a fairly difficult fight.
My problem here is I've never had a problem with the way the buffs work normally... so I don't know what problem this change is trying to fix. The biggest problem with buffs is tracking how long they stay up (at least for me). If we eliminate the rounds per level and just make the duration = encounter duration, I think that'd help a lot.
As for the equipment... I still don't get why it's necessary to use 2 methods to encourage players to use different types of gear when 1 method alone works just fine.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I'm not worried about the magic item stuff - that's simple enough...
I must say the change to Wish is both very anti-backwards compatible, and doesn't mesh with D&D history at all. Not fond of the three spell thing either, but that's far more a flavor issue.
Thanks to the OP for bringing this to my attention.
Agreed. The change to wish breaks a lot of older stat blocks. I'm not sure it is needed, the increase to your stats is balanced by the bags of gold shoveled at raising them.
In a game I play in we play that the maximum you can increase a stat by stat bump/wish or book is 5 points total. The advantages are:
1. If you have an odd stat to start with you can in theory end up with the same level of bonus as a person with an even number above you
2. If you want to spend a stat bump point on a non major stat you are not in any way handicapping yourself for high level play
3. We avoid massive stats (such as int) which casue those saving throws to become pretty hard to make.
4. you can get say 3 points from stat bump at 12th level then get a book of +2 and you are done with that stat.
My fear with the stat enhancement restriction is that this disadvantages certain classes (monk, bard, ranger, paladin) which need more stats than some other classes. These classes already do it tough due to the need for many decent stats - they therefore benefit more from multiple stat enhancers.