Pathfinder has changed specialist wizards in such a way that they no longer have to forego schools completely. They can still prepare spells from their prohibited schools and all they lose by doing so are their specialist benefits for that particular day. In effect, these wizards can function both as specialists and as generalists/universalists. As such, I think the generalist/universalist wizard becomes redundant and likely unbalanced, as he gets 'general/universal' benefits whatever spells from whatever schools he has prepared for the day. There is an easy solution to this: Remove the universalistgeneralist wizard. Sometimes less is more and this is exactly such a situation. Specialist wizards are more flavorful and if they can act as generalists/universalists by foregoing their specialization benefits for the day than there is nothing to lose from the removal of the universalist/generalist.
*Note: This comes from a regular player of wizards. In fact, non-specialized/universalist/generalist wizards are the most common character that I play, though I should mention that I am most frequently the DM.
I'd turn this round slightly.
Prohibited should mean prohibited - not spells you can get access to if you're having one of those days when only conjuration etc will do
I play generalist wizards all the time and whilst this rule change gives specialists some really great powers I think the notion that you can access banned schools is plain wrong.
I'd turn this round slightly.
Prohibited should mean prohibited - not spells you can get access to if you're having one of those days when only conjuration etc will do
I play generalist wizards all the time and whilst this rule change gives specialists some really great powers I think the notion that you can access banned schools is plain wrong.
Would you consent to allowing banned schools later on?
The thought that a 12th level Conjurer can't wrap their head around Magic-Missle is a tad silly after all.
In 3.5 a specialist traded extra spells per day for access to all spell schools.
In Alpha, a specialist trades a school power for access to all spell schools.
So, as an abjurer, I can either have resistance 5 to fire, or I can cast spells of all spell schools. The other abilities granted apply to the generalist/universalist as well... so that's not a benefit of being a specialist.
I like the idea of the Spell like abilities granted at various levels. But why not allow the Wizard to pick the spell? As a level 4 universalist, I get to cast levitation as a spell like ability. This isn't even a spell my character knows. In the six or so years I've been playing D&D (never said I was the most experienced of the posters here)... I can't think of a time I've ever used this spell.
Although, I suppose, I could play a generalist and pick any of the schools lists for spell like abilities and pick the one I prefer (and constantly give up the school power as the cost of being a generalist).
Personally, I would go back to specialists can't use their prohibited schools at all, and they gain an extra spell / level they can cast. Keep the Wizard spell like abilities, but build in some flexibility... allow the Wizard to pick a spell of x spell level (The first level spell like is a level 1 spell; the second level spell like is a level 2 spell and so on), that can be cast times per day based upon caster level. That seems to be the method behind the spell like abilities anyway... so why not make it player choice? That way the spell can fit the character.
Specialist wizards are more flavorful ...
Just wanted to disagree with that there. Frankly my gut feeling from playing 1st edition is that specialist wizards are nutty overpowered innovations, not really flavorful. But putting that aside, the "Master of all Magics" flavor of a Universalist is quite appealing - I'd never grant the title "Arch-Mage" to a specialist.
Specialist wizards are more flavorful ...Just wanted to disagree with that there. Frankly my gut feeling from playing 1st edition is that specialist wizards are nutty overpowered innovations, not really flavorful. But putting that aside, the "Master of all Magics" flavor of a Universalist is quite appealing - I'd never grant the title "Arch-Mage" to a specialist.
We will just have to agree to disagree (though I have not played 1st edition). Don't get me wrong, when I play wizards I do tend to play generalists/universalists, because I want to be able to do everything that magic can do rather than fewer things slightly better, but restrictions do create flavor and make for greater variety among mages. Besides, specialization mitigates the 'mage/wizard can do everything' problem that is apparently perceived by many groups.
With the new mechanics, all wizards can cast all types of magic, so all of them can function as generalists/universalists. Since that is the case, why have a dedicated generalist/universalist class? I see little reason to have one.
If I were to go back to restricting specialist casting of spells from prohibited schools of magic in order to make the dedicated generalist/universalist make sense in the ew context, I would not prohibit spellcasting from the prohibited schools completely. Rather, I would have spells from these schools be higher level spells for the specialist. One level higher would probably suffice, but more would be possible.
Since that is the case, why have a dedicated generalist/universalist class? I see little reason to have one.Here's a reason: nine options for your character is better than eight.
Even if the ninth choice is redundant? And it is redundant in this case.
Still, I can see that there is not much support for expunging the generalist/universalist wizard. Hence it would be a bad idea to do so, even though I do believe it would be a good thing to do from a game design point of view. Having a redundant choice, while not optimal, is clearly better than antagonizing (probably) numerous players over its removal.
Given that fact, though, I would say that it is best to make the generalist/universalist wizard a meaningful choice again by restricting spellcasting from prohibited schools for specialist wizards.
How do you like my idea of making spells from prohibited schools one or two spell levels higher for the specialist wizard (rather than preventing their casting completely)?
Also, I would, in that case, advocate the removal or at least toning down of the generalist's/universalist's abilities - wish and limited wish.
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Rather than specific spells the Generalist can use, I'd create more generic powers, such as
"Rememorize: Once per day, regain a spell that you've already cast"
or
"Enhanced Spell: 1/day, you may cast 1 spell you've memorized as if you were 2 levels higher"
or
"Quick Memorize: By leaving 1 slot open, you may 1/day quickly glance through your spell book as a full round action and fill the slot with any spell of the appropriate level or lower from your spellbook."
or
"Call Familiar/Object: 1/day you may teleport your familiar/bound object to your hands, no matter where it is, if it's on the same plane."
Benefits like these are truly universal...
I want a generalist Wizard. I like it just the way it is.
Same here.
How do you like my idea of making spells from prohibited schools one or two spell levels higher for the specialist wizard (rather than preventing their casting completely)?
Also, I would, in that case, advocate the removal or at least toning down of the generalist's/universalist's abilities - wish and limited wish.
As to the first, I think prohibited schools should, in fact, be prohibited. Not allowed at a higher level; not allowed at the loss of the specialist ability. The allowed at a higher level thing makes a bit of sense, but I think it would be easier to just not allow (particularly for backwards compatability concerns).
As to the second... the entire purpose of the spell like abilities gained throughout the wizard's career is supposed to be an enticement to stay in the Wizard class. If you tone down the generalist's spell like abilities (or remove them) then you are telling players that if they want to play a universalist/generalist prestige out as soon as you can, because the base class has nothing for you. From a design viewpoint, this would seem to be counter to the purpose behind the spell like abilities.
Is wish that powerful (considering the new version in Alpha 2)? You can rearrange the stats of everyone in the group + or - 1. It takes multiple castings of Wish to really bump someone's stats up... which requires a significant material component cost (and actually using spells rather than a spell like ability).
Is Wish that powerful compared to the top abilities that some of the casting PRCs get? Is it that powerful compared to the specialist wizard lists?
As it is, the only reason to take a specialist wizard is because you want that little bonus power at the beginning or you prefer the choice of spell like abilities. That doesn't seem like a strong incentive to me to become a specialist (definitely not compared with the 3.5 rules).
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I am still unhappy with the generalist wizard's 20th level ability, Mastery of All Schools. I do not think that a generalist should be better at evocations than an evoker, better at illusions than an illusionist, etc.
My solution to this will probably be a houserule: 20th level specialists get +2 to their school DCs and +4 insight to overcome SR with their school of magic. The generalist would then have the advantage of all his magic being boosted, but not better than a specialist. I do not see this being an unbalancing change at 20th level, especially as I am still tweaking other classes' options at 20th.
One thing to keep in mine is that Pathfinder seems to be looking at options and the consequences of them. Both sorcerers and wizards (as well as clerics) gain spell-like abilities that they will likely loose if the enter a presitge class. Prestige Classes that offer addtional levels of spellcasting will NOT grant the spell-like abilities and other bonuses of these classes.
This seems to be a purposeful attempt to address the idea of playing a cleric/wizard/sorcerer just long enough to qualify for a prestige class that can offer the same level of spellcasting plus additional powers.
One thing to keep in mine is that Pathfinder seems to be looking at options and the consequences of them. Both sorcerers and wizards (as well as clerics) gain spell-like abilities that they will likely loose if the enter a presitge class. Prestige Classes that offer addtional levels of spellcasting will NOT grant the spell-like abilities and other bonuses of these classes.
This seems to be a purposeful attempt to address the idea of playing a cleric/wizard/sorcerer just long enough to qualify for a prestige class that can offer the same level of spellcasting plus additional powers.
The question is, how important to 3.5 balance was that extra spell per level / day for specialists. The new specialist powers do not come close to matching the power taken away from those casters... particularly at higher levels (is resistance to one element of 10 really worth an extra 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st spell per day?). Do the prestige classes for specialists take this extra spell per level per day into account in balancing the prestige class to other classes in the game?
As a level 11 abjurer, I'd gladly give up the resistance 5 to elemental damage for an extra casting of dispel magic per day.
I'd turn this round slightly.
Prohibited should mean prohibited - not spells you can get access to if you're having one of those days when only conjuration etc will do
I play generalist wizards all the time and whilst this rule change gives specialists some really great powers I think the notion that you can access banned schools is plain wrong.
Would you consent to allowing banned schools later on?
The thought that a 12th level Conjurer can't wrap their head around Magic-Missle is a tad silly after all.
It's not a matter of not being able to get your head round it - the specialist conjurer is so interested in conjuration that evocation spells like magic missile or necromancy spells (for example) are of no interest to her. She's in love with conjuration.
To reiterate I love generalist wizards - please let's not take anything away from their flavour. This goes for bonded objects / familiars too. It's ok if they're options but I'd hate to be told you have to have one of these.
Samurai's post about generic powers to replace Universalist spell like abilities is a great idea:
Regaining a spell you've just cast (a la Pearl of Power)
Or keeping a spell slot open (a la Alacritous Cogitation)
Or how about Sudden Metamagic feat-like abilities.
These would certainly show the Universalist's flair for magic in general rather than picking out random-ish spells she can cast.
The question is, how important to 3.5 balance was that extra spell per level / day for specialists. The new specialist powers do not come close to matching the power taken away from those casters... particularly at higher levels (is resistance to one element of 10 really worth an extra 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st spell per day?). Do the prestige classes for specialists take this extra spell per level per day into account in balancing the prestige class to other classes in the game?
As a level 11 abjurer, I'd gladly give up the resistance 5 to elemental damage for an extra casting of dispel magic per day.
The extra spells for specialist still exist. They ARE now the spell-like abilities. Yes, they are set abilities and not a free spell you can pick, but they are still there.
Here is an example:
Divination school
2nd - true strike (1st level divination spell)
4th - see invisibility (2nd level divination spell)
6th - tongues (3rd level divination spell)
8th - Scrying Adept - permanent detect scrying (4th level divination spell)
10th - contact other plane (5th level divination spell)
12th - true seeing (6th level divination spell)
14th - greater scrying (7th level divination spell)
16th - moment of prescience (8th level divination spell)
18th - foresight (9th level divination spell)
It is not a perfect match for all of the school, but the equivalent bonus spells are there. The fact that universalist get these bonuses is the reason that specialist only loose the specialist bonus when preparing prohibited spells.
It's not a matter of not being able to get your head round it - the specialist conjurer is so interested in conjuration that evocation spells like magic missile or necromancy spells (for example) are of no interest to her. She's in love with conjuration.
But the new rules do support this love with a special school quite good. They don't take away the possibility to play a conjurer that despises evocations and would never ever cast one himself - even when it means death to her.
On the other side, sometimes a specialist may find some spell from one of those two "other" schools handy, maybe the circumstances are even of a kind that he needs a spell from a prohibited school at all costs. In such cases is makes really no sense why a specialist should not be technically be able to learn such a spell. I never saw it more than an artificial rule meant to balance the extra prepared spells.
I prefer the new Paizo way of handling specialists (I am not quite happy with a couple of the power choices but that's easily fixed). The system is more flexible without really taking away things.
Have a lot of fun
Andreas
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It's unnecessary? Wow.. have you tried playing the new class yet? A Wizard doesn't need to rest nearly as much. You can go 3-5 ENCOUNTERS before a wizard needs to rest.
A wizard that gives up his school abilities for the day basically ends the day 15 minutes later for his party for whatever spell it was he thought he needed so much. Losing his powers are a BIG deal now.
What's the difference between a universal wizard and a necromancer? A necromancer gets a lot of extra necromancer spells while a universal gets a lot of commonly casted spells. A necromancer also gets a specialist ability, a universal wizard doesn't.
It's unnecessary? Wow.. have you tried playing the new class yet? A Wizard doesn't need to rest nearly as much. You can go 3-5 ENCOUNTERS before a wizard needs to rest.
A wizard that gives up his school abilities for the day basically ends the day 15 minutes later for his party for whatever spell it was he thought he needed so much. Losing his powers are a BIG deal now.
What's the difference between a universal wizard and a necromancer? A necromancer gets a lot of extra necromancer spells while a universal gets a lot of commonly casted spells. A necromancer also gets a specialist ability, a universal wizard doesn't.
I don't think they lose all that much.
Wizards may prepare and cast spells from their prohibited schools, but they do not gain the specialist bonus ability of their chosen school for that day if they do so.
They don't lose their school powers, just the bonus ability.
So... for example, the Abjurer's Specialist Bonus ability:
Specialist Bonus: You gain resistance 5 to an energy type of your choice, chosen when you prepare spells. This resistance can be changed each day. At 11th level, this resistance increases to 10.
Is losing Resistance 5 really that costly to end the day sooner? or is resistance 10 even worth having over being able to cast a 9th level spell of a prohibited school?
Or the Conjurer...
Specialist Bonus: You gain a +2 armor bonus to your armor class. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 caster levels you possess, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
So, at level 1 you get 1/2 of Mage Armor, and at level 20 you get as a Special Ability, Greater Mage Armor a 4th level spell. There's no durational limit, so at lower levels this helps when Mage Armor isn't up... but at hours per level, that's not a long-lasting problem. By the time you get a +4 (level 10), Mage Armor is up for 10 hours... so how is losing this special ability going to impact anyone?
Or the Divination School...
Specialist Bonus: You can always act in the surprise round, but you are still considered flat-footed until you take an action.
Handy... but not the end of the world if you give this up. There are spells, I believe, that allow you to cast as an immediate action and take a turn... which if available, nullify this special ability.
Or the Enchantment School...
Specialist Bonus: You gain a +2 enhancement bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 caster levels you possess, up to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Nice little bonus... but again, not the end of the world if you can't use it. And, in all likelihood someone else in the party is more charismatic and handling the bluff, intimidate and diplomacy checks (I'd say the Rogue or Cleric).
Or the Evocation School...
Specialist Bonus: Whenever you cast an evocation spell that deals damage, it deals +1 damage. This bonus only applies once to a spell, not once per missile or ray. This damage is of the same type as the spell. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 caster levels you possess, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
+5 extra damage at level 20 on evocation spells only... and this is better than casting spells in your prohibited school how? Honestly, I don't see the loss of this ability having any sort of impact.
Or the Illusion School...
Specialist Bonus: Any illusion spell you cast with a duration of “concentration” lasts an additional 2 rounds after you stop maintaining concentration. This bonus increases by 1 round for every 5 levels you possess, to a maximum of 6 rounds at 20th level.
Again, nice extended duration... not earth shattering if you don't have it though.
No need to go on... Transmuters gain a +1 to +5 enhancement bonus to a stat... so basically, a free 8000 to 36,000 gp item (well, not quite the 36,000 because it's a +5 instead of a +6). Necromancers get 8hd of undead per CL (nice army I guess).
Up above someone suggested that the specialists still get their extra spell per day. Just to comment on that.
Yes, they do... but so does the Universalist. Which means that they don't get an "extra" spell per level per day. They get the same number as the Universalist. The specialists in 3.5 got 1 more than the Universalist. They no longer get that. Thus, the advantage to specializing, if any, is simply to gain the benefits of the Specialist Bonuses discussed above... and most of them don't appear to be worth having (or can easily be skipped). Making every specialist line a universalist with different school power options.
If every wizard can effectively pick a chain of spell like abilities and other "school powers" and be a universalist... why not just do the school powers the way the Rogue gets talents? For each "School Power" have a choice... a bonus metamagic application, a spell of x level as a spell like ability (player's choice), etc. Even split them up, advanced powers and normal powers (ala the Rogue class).
Then make the specialists truly be specialists and prohibit the 2 schools... and give them their extra spell / day back (I'd rather have those extra spells than a lackluster Specialist Ability, as most appear to be (and having played an abjurer specialist under this system... I can say I haven't used the Specialist Bonus in 4 sessions).
My 2 cents.
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Here's what I'd do:
Specialists: In addition to your Specialist Power, at each odd level you may memorize 1 additional spell from your chosen school, so long as you do not memorize any from your prohibited school. Like your Specialist power, these spells vanish if you decide to memorize a spell from a prohibited school that day.
Universal: Change their bonus powers/spells into generally effective powers, as I said above... rememorize a spell just cast, some spontaneous metamagic, perhaps some kind of Immediate Action counterspelling ability, etc. Bonus spells belong to specialists, not universalists.
I was thinking how nice it'd be if Diviners were the Generalists, seeing as they are one school you are not allowed to drop.
And Conjuration if you went to school at the Acadamae of course. :P
The boni for Generalists are too powerful, I think. Especially the Metamagic Mastery lets him outshine the Evocer in... well... evocation spells, and that should never happen. Tone him down a little, or even remove the boni altogether. Loosing everyday access to two schools is quite a restriction; the reward for living with that should be greater than that given away for free.
Loosing everyday access to two schools is quite a restriction; the reward for living with that should be greater than that given away for free.
Yet, that restriction does not exist in Alpha. You can voluntarily give up access to 2 schools for a single Specialist Bonus Power, most of them aren't all that great.
If the school restrictions go back to being actual restrictions... then the specialists should get something close to the extra spell per day under 3.5.
As it stands, I think the 3.5 specialists are probably more powerful than a Alpha specialist.
If generalists/universalists are to stay, I think it is more meaningful for specialist to have some restrictions on prohibited schools, but I think a complete loss of access is too much. I would favor making the spells from prohibited schools higher level for the specialist.
While I admit that I might be opening myself up to a world of backlash-hurt here.
Do you REALLY need to have a prohibited school at all?
Why not make specialst more of a "focus" concept.
You can have historians that study world history but are experts at say the middle-ages or world war II. Same with an american historian that is a specialist on the civil war.
Both still are knowledgable at their broader fields but they are BETTER in their focus.
For a wizard just have them able to use all schools but focus on a specific one that they get their special powers and skills on.
The boni for Generalists are too powerful, I think. Especially the Metamagic Mastery lets him outshine the Evocer in... well... evocation spells, and that should never happen. Tone him down a little, or even remove the boni altogether. Loosing everyday access to two schools is quite a restriction; the reward for living with that should be greater than that given away for free.
I agree, the Universalists' powers are too powerful. The specialists give up 2 schools of magic and gain weaker powers so something isn't right here. Also, compare the universalists powers to the sorcerer arcane bloodline (the default sorcerer) and you see the universalist is very much overpowered in that comparison too.
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Here's what I'd do:
Specialists: In addition to your Specialist Power, at each odd level you may memorize 1 additional spell from your chosen school, so long as you do not memorize any from your prohibited school. Like your Specialist power, these spells vanish if you decide to memorize a spell from a prohibited school that day.
Universal: Change their bonus powers/spells into generally effective powers, as I said above... rememorize a spell just cast, some spontaneous metamagic, perhaps some kind of Immediate Action counterspelling ability, etc. Bonus spells belong to specialists, not universalists.
I'll 2nd this idea(s) ;)
How about this...
In addition to their Alpha bonus, Specialists gain the following:
- Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in their school.
- At 20th level they gain an additional +2 bonus to DCs that stacks with those feats.
- Capable of memorizing any spell from the Specialist school without the aid of a spellbook, as if they had Spell Mastery with those spells.
This comes at a cost towards the opposing schools. You lose the ability to use the opposing schools spells in any fashion other than the most basic way.
Instead of losing access to abilities when casting or memorizing a spell from the opposing school, opposing schools have the following penalties at all times:
- Reduced spell DC by 2.
- Increased casting time by one step (exactly like a sorcerer casting with metamagic).
- Cannot apply any metamagic feats, even through special abilities or magic items.
- Cannot be used as a prerequisite for crafting items.
Basically, because you focus so greatly on your chosen school, the opposing schools are barely learned at all, to the point of just barely being able to be cast.
The Generalist would then be able to cast all schools normally. They'd be the best Magic Item Crafters since they wouldn't be restricted from any particular spell. They'd also cast any spell with no penalty, and gain more benefit out of their metamagic feats.
I'd let them keep their bonus abilities. First, it means staying Wizard without Prestige levels has a point. Also, no reason to give even more towards the Specialists.. they are already getting a major bonus at a cost, giving extra spells and abilities on top of the unversalist would be unbalancing.
I've never understood why a Specialist Wizard doesn't get a freebie School Focus feat in his school.
The Universalist Wizard could pick up something comparable like Magical Artisan Scribe Scroll reducing those scroll costs or Skill Focus Concentration.
Personally, I like the idea of specialists not being able to cast opposed schools, though I would limit to 1 school. I would want to keep the idea of specialist vs. general wizard if at all possible.
I'm not a fan of the SLA abilities given by the specialists though. I would rather the benefits for sticking with your core specialist class be enhancements to your known spells, with an extra spell "per spell level" that must be of your specialized school.
For example, for a Conjurer the special benefits should allow the character to do things with their Summoning spells that a sorcerer or "Universal" wizard could not. Things like advancing summoned creatures by 1-2 hit dice, giving them an additional template, granting them additional HP or ability modifiers, granting additional creatures summoned per spell, and extending the duration.
So, as an example for the Conjurer
Specialist ability - AC bonus per Alpha rules (I don't like it though)
1st - Acid Dart
2nd - Summoning spells last an additional 2 rounds
4th - Cast Monster Summoning spells as standard action - 3/day
6th - Summoned creatures gain +1 HD
8th - Dimensional Steps (because it is a cool ability :) )
10th - Can summon 1 additional creature with the Summon Monster spell or treat the spell as maximized when summoning creatures from a lower-level list - 2/day
12th - Summoning spells with a duration of 1/round per level are now 1 minute/level (+2 minutes for the 2nd level ability)
14th - Summoned creatures gain +2 HD (replaces 6th level ability)
16th - Can attempt to Banish (as Banishment spell) all summoned creatures within a 30' radius - 1/day
18th - Summoned creatures can bypass spells that would normally block them such as Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil
20th - Summoning Master (as Alpha document)
Obviously this is just a rough idea, but it focuses on the specialist's chosen field and improves on it, instead of just giving out "random" SLA abilities like Stinking Cloud and Wall of Iron. It would also alleviate the issue of granting spells like Gate or Wish as SLA abilities.
It all boils down to wanting specialist wizards to stand out. Thannar the Conjurer should be able to do things with a simple Summon Monster II spell that no other "generalist" or wizard of another specialty could do. Oooh, I can cast Stinking Cloud one more time per day at 6th level, yippee :( Wouldn't it be more interesting and "specialized" to be able "summon a black bear with a few simple words" (standard action vs. 1 round), have it be "larger and more ferocious" (+1 HD), and last longer than an equivalent "common" wizard?
I'm not a fan of the SLA abilities given by the specialists though. I would rather the benefits for sticking with your core specialist class be enhancements to your known spells, with an extra spell "per spell level" that must be of your specialized school.For example, for a Conjurer the special benefits should allow the character to do things with their Summoning spells that a sorcerer or "Universal" wizard could not. Things like advancing summoned creatures by 1-2 hit dice, giving them an additional template, granting them additional HP or ability modifiers, granting additional creatures summoned per spell, and extending the duration.
<snip>
Obviously this is just a rough idea, but it focuses on the specialist's chosen field and improves on it, instead of just giving out "random" SLA abilities like Stinking Cloud and Wall...
I wholeheartedly agree. I agree there needs to be some benefit to sticking with the class, but I don't want it to be pre-packaged spell-like abilities. I want there to be more flexibility in the classes and thus prefer the idea of prepping bonus spells per level out of any number of school specialty spells. I would much prefer general improvements to school spells in the school list.
The question then remains how to balance the universalist. How about we give him an extra spell-slot per level as well, that can be filled with any spell, no school restriction.
I wholeheartedly agree. I agree there needs to be some benefit to sticking with the class, but I don't want it to be pre-packaged spell-like abilities. I want there to be more flexibility in the classes and thus prefer the idea of prepping bonus spells per level out of any number of school specialty spells. I would much prefer general improvements to school spells in the school list.
The question then remains how to balance the universalist. How about we give him an extra spell-slot per level as well, that can be filled with any spell, no school restriction.
Well, I would prefer the bonus spells to be the realm of a specialist, isntead just giving the Universalist special abilities. Things like easier metamagic (but not too easy), maybe allow him to pick up spells not from the wizard/sorcerer spell list, shoose a school to gain a +1 to spell DCs, etc.
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I like the idea of the Spell like abilities granted at various levels. But why not allow the Wizard to pick the spell? As a level 4 universalist, I get to cast levitation as a spell like ability. This isn't even a spell my character knows. In the six or so years I've been playing D&D (never said I was the most experienced of the posters here)... I can't think of a time I've ever used this spell.
If used correctly, Levitation can be an interesting spell from a tactical standpoint. In the game session I played in today, our party's Warmage use Levitation to lift one of our opponents 20 ft in the air and then all of our ranged combatants hammered him while he was helpless to retaliate. Sometimes it just takes a little creative thinking to find inventive ways to use a spell. Oh and by the way, I have been playing D&D since the late 70's and I had never thought of using Levitation that way either.
If used correctly, Levitation can be an interesting spell from a tactical standpoint. In the game session I played in today, our party's Warmage use Levitation to lift one of our opponents 20 ft in the air and then all of our ranged combatants hammered him while he was helpless to retaliate. Sometimes it just takes a little creative thinking to find inventive ways to use a spell. Oh and by the way, I have been playing D&D since the late 70's and I had never thought of using Levitation that way either.
OT but - The creature affected by the Levitation spell has to be "willing" per the spell description. Just wanted to point out that someone made a minor mistake :)
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OT but - The creature affected by the Levitation spell has to be "willing" per the spell description. Just wanted to point out that someone made a minor mistake :)
If used correctly, Levitation can be an interesting spell from a tactical standpoint. In the game session I played in today, our party's Warmage use Levitation to lift one of our opponents 20 ft in the air and then all of our ranged combatants hammered him while he was helpless to retaliate. Sometimes it just takes a little creative thinking to find inventive ways to use a spell. Oh and by the way, I have been playing D&D since the late 70's and I had never thought of using Levitation that way either.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll make sure and let my DM know.
Well, I would prefer the bonus spells to be the realm of a specialist, isntead just giving the Universalist special abilities. Things like easier metamagic (but not too easy), maybe allow him to pick up spells not from the wizard/sorcerer spell list, shoose a school to gain a +1 to spell DCs, etc.
The thing is, we need some way to keep both specialists and universalists willingly in the class, something they can't get just with a prestige class giving them an increase in spellcasting. So, either the bonus spells have to be available only if you actually take a level in the class or you have to offer other benefits (I do like the ones that were suggested farther up the thread... though perhaps not advancing summoned creature hit dice. Too much recalculation - bonuses to hit and or hit points would probably suffice).
Once you offer other benefits to the specialists, and you do it to the universalists too, the universalist ones have to be a LOT better to balance out the extra spell slots. I don't think loss of a couple of schools really makes up for it. That's why I'd say to make the extra benefits reasonably comparable level by level whenever they are given out, give the specialists the extra spell slots (rather than pre-set spell-like abilities), and then give the universalist the extra slot as well.I'm not necessarily fixated on the idea. If someone can come up with something better, great. But I'm not too keen on spell-like abilities that are too specifically defined. Since a bunch are once a day, might as well just be a spell slot and let the player pick the spell.
I personally like the way PF organizes the Universalist vs. Specialist issue. I cannot see universalists going, as imo schools are not just game mechanics but also a matter of campaign background. You need to define orders and academies of specialists and also possible generalists.
Another good idea is the access to metamagic to universalists. In my campaigns, spellcasting-character players tend not to choose metamagic feats, especially those who prepare spells: giving away your highest spell level choice tends not to be a very good strategic move (even if you get maximized or empowered spells), especially with many published modules, which at times require access to a certain array of spells according to the level range of the adventure. So, in the 3.5 campaigns I have run, metamagic is only used by enemies and by a PC with a metamagic rod. Incorporating metamagic in the universalist wizard's choice seems a good option to me.
One problem: Hand of the Apprentice can be heavily abused by players. It could be used to trigger traps (from a distance). That's ok once or twice (we should not penalize smart thinking), but not if you go around triggering every other trap in the dungeon! I would like to see its usages per day limited (I could not find a limitation in the Alpha 2 text, maybe it's just me).
As for "extra-spell" specialists, I could see some rule similar to the "advanced specialization" in the 3.5 Towers of High Sorcery Dragonlance supplement. A specialist of a certain level could choose a feat to further especialize in his school. The feat would lead to extra spells and increased DC and force him to forsake all access to prohibited schools' spells and spell effects. So, you can keep together the "first tier" specialization and the hardcore full-blown specialist.
For the sake of backwards compatibility, and not taking anything from the game, keep them in. With some fine-tuning, the balance issues will be resolved, and all's well.
Well, yes, ultimately I came to the same conclusion for the sake of compatibility and retaining options rather than removing them (even if they are somewhat redundant).
I really like the thoughts of Samurai and Grey,
On the idea of “specialization” representing a focus as opposed to prohibition.
You get to be a specialist and as such gain your specialist abilities however, your may not prepare any of your “prohibited” schools in you highest level spell slot.
This represents that you are advanced in your learning of your chosen school, but at the cost that you just plain do not know the higher level magic due to a combined lack of study and understanding of those schools.
Second,
I do not care for the flavor of a specialist universal school caster. It simply is too ironic for my taste. Consider that the universal school is where spells are placed that do not fit into the other schools. As well as spells that are iconic to what it is to be a learned sage of spell casting. Wizards should always have the Universal school; this is the school I would say could not be dropped.
Here I salute Samurai again as those ideas show something more in keeping with a “generalist”
Third,
I have always enjoyed the divination school and would love Pathfinder to give this school a little love in the form of additional spells. Spells that cause not in game affects but circumvent the player needing to roll. Ignore a miss chance, auto-confirm critical, rework imitative order, and other spells along the flavor of “playing with fate”
I never understood why Contingency was considered an Evocation spell. It seemed more a spell any wizard would use for all sorts of reason, not just something Evokers would do better. I understand it's "evoking" the spell, but the purpose of the spell seems much more "universal" to me.
Same goes for Mnemonic Enhancer. I guess you are altering your magical ability or brain somehow? This one seems even more flimsy.. and it's not like Transmutation needed the extra spell.
This one definitely feels like a universal spell.
Much more universal than Teleport or Fireball. I could see a few others being replaced too. Is PHB2 OGL? Cuz Mystic Surge is a universal spell that could be appropriate for this line.
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Overall, I still like the idea of making opposed schools not useable with metamagic and item creation (or even further detriments) to make it more important a factor.
Giving the Universalist Item Creation or Metamagic feats on top of a few abilities would be good too. Get rid of the random assortment of spells that a wizard might or might not use (Shield, Levitate, Fireball, Teleport, etc). Add in the extra feats, or maybe greater use of those feats (like an ability for Item Creation similar to the Metamagic bonus they have).
Then you can warrant lowering the bonus from Master of Schools, so a Universalist doesn't become better at casting spells in all schools than any specialist (with regards to DCs). That's a little odd.