I'm going to suggest that for the PRPG you guys change the gnomes favored class back to illusionist. Or wizard at least. Bard never sat well with me. So, yeah.. I house rule it. But, it'd be great to see it in print.
Thoughts?
I'm going to suggest that for the PRPG you guys change the gnomes favored class back to illusionist. Or wizard at least. Bard never sat well with me. So, yeah.. I house rule it. But, it'd be great to see it in print.
Thoughts?
To me, favored classes are very represantative of the member of a race : an elf is a potentialy wizard by his culture, a dwarf is a potentialy fighter by his culture.
I don't thinks all the gnome are bard !So, i prefer the ADD style : gnome favored class is illusionist, and they gains +2 Int instead of +2 Cha.
And the halflings gains +2 Cha instead of +2 Int ( Sam Gamgee and the other hobbit are more sympathic than intelligent - Gandalf is intelligent )
See.. we agree.
That's pretty much how we do gnomes now.
Any other thoughts on this? Anyone have reasons why Bard is a good class for gnomes?
If they give Bard as favored class for gnome, it should for give an interest for the class ( someone think bard is a poor class ) beacause gnome is a very good races (+2 CON, spell like ability, bonus to illusion ... bonus to alchemy !! )
Maybe because the gnome is closest to fey (pixie ...) ? Or beacause the gnome is a joker, like the bard ?
But the bard is more a menestrel (in english?), someone who bring news to the great cities, who make and tell the legend... And the gnome don't represent this to me ...
(excuse my english, it's not easy to say such idea with my poor vocabulary ... I haven't yet use any skill point in Linguistic ...)
I always thought that gnomes were assigned the bard as favored class rather arbitrarily...so that there is a class having a bard as favored class...flavor-wise I shuddered...
...so, I prefer illusionist as a favored class for rogue. On the other hand, a gnome of Golarion with her strong ties to nature might possibly favor a druid...or is this to far-fetched?
Greetings, Daniel
I'm going to suggest that for the PRPG you guys change the gnomes favored class back to illusionist. Or wizard at least. Bard never sat well with me. So, yeah.. I house rule it. But, it'd be great to see it in print.
Thoughts?
I agree. While we're at it, I think gnomes should get a +2 Int instead of +2 Cha. Give the charisma bonus to those shifty fast talking halflings.
though I generally dislike bards in the 3.5 SRD, I don't have a problem with gnomes having bard as their favored class. A favored class has always represented to me what a race might lean towards in terms of education and natura inclination, thus a gnomish socity based around music and its power to affect the world would very easily have bard as a favored class.
While we are on the race subject:
Why do elves have "unearthly beauty" but not a +2 to charisma? Come to think of it, why do elves with their inclination to things natural not favor the more organic sorceror over wizard?
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I'm going to suggest that for the PRPG you guys change the gnomes favored class back to illusionist. Or wizard at least. Bard never sat well with me. So, yeah.. I house rule it. But, it'd be great to see it in print.
Thoughts?
I agree. In my campaign gnomes can choose either bard or illusionist as a favored class, and they can get +2 in either Charisma or Intelligence.
just to edit my own post above:
I prefer illusionist as a favored class for a GNOME. On the other hand, a gnome of Golarion with her strong ties to nature might possibly favor a druid...or is this to far-fetched?
Greetings, Daniel
please make the Gnome have favored class towards wizard, better yet illusionist. I think we have a general consensus that WotC botched them up big time with their favoring of bard. I could live with sorcerer (or beguiler) but I think we all are feeling the +2 to Intelligence should go to the Gnome not the Halfling. Gnomes may have a prankster, fun loving side, but that does not indicate good personal skills (fey related creatures can be quite annoying to those who dont relate to their form of comedy)
second ed gnomes where tons of fun with awesome multi classing options and a bonus to Intelligence and a penalty to Wisdom. Im not asking for the wisdom penalty , strength makes sense, but give me a taste of back when gnomes rocked.
I also think they should get a at will prestidigitation spell like ability, the once per days are a bit weak. maybe a bonus to survival or knowledge nature to get at the forgotten fae/forest roots
DRUID, make the gnome favored class be a druid.
Just look at the flavor text of the gnome, it suggests strong ties to nature (and adapting it through Alchemy) and the Fey.
I know that they've long been associated with Illusionist classes, but really a Druid would fit better. It certainly fits better than a Bard.
As druids, they just seem to fit better with their Fey-like nature. Wild Shaping, summoning nature's allies and even their weapon selection seem to fit with gnomish qualities like Keen senses, boosting their land speed and their racial hatreds and defensive trainings (you know, because giants, goblins and reptillian humanoids aren't really nature friendly).
Or at the very least, give the gnome have to favored classes -- Druid and Bard to appeal to the two main drives of the Pathfinder race.
But what about their passion for devices? That's not very Nature-y or very Bardish. I think that's what tripped WotC up with building the Gnome for 4e. That's an aspect more appropriate for Dwarves, if you ask me.
I posted this on another thread.
"Just my individual opinion, but I think gnomes should be move away from the tinker gnome concept all together.
Instead I like the idea of gnomes with a fey-like attitude, whimsical beings who enjoy song and dance."
So I guess I'm the only one who likes the idea of gnome bards, in the end it's not a big deal, you ultimately create the character you want regardless of his favored class.
Tinkering works only well in steampunk/spellpunk settings, which D&D isn't by default.
And even then it's usually plain silly. Illusionist/Alchemist works just fine.
DRUID, make the gnome favored class be a druid.
Just look at the flavor text of the gnome, it suggests strong ties to nature (and adapting it through Alchemy) and the Fey.
I know that they've long been associated with Illusionist classes, but really a Druid would fit better. It certainly fits better than a Bard.
As druids, they just seem to fit better with their Fey-like nature. Wild Shaping, summoning nature's allies and even their weapon selection seem to fit with gnomish qualities like Keen senses, boosting their land speed and their racial hatreds and defensive trainings (you know, because giants, goblins and reptillian humanoids aren't really nature friendly).Or at the very least, give the gnome have to favored classes -- Druid and Bard to appeal to the two main drives of the Pathfinder race.
But what about their passion for devices? That's not very Nature-y or very Bardish. I think that's what tripped WotC up with building the Gnome for 4e. That's an aspect more appropriate for Dwarves, if you ask me.
Agreed, and Gnomes, via those alchemical leanings and ability to adapt nature while sharing its strengths brings new flavor to Druids, a more pragmatic, scholarly aspect that might bring players who had ignored the class back to it.
Why not have mechanically minded Druids? why not have them plan great feats of engenearing to make feilds more fruitfull around gnomish setelments and so reduce the impact upon the wilds.
Keep the rule changes small, change the fluff.
I think this may be my refrain on these boards from now on.
El Skootro
Gnome - like the idea of Druid. But why not Druid or Illusionist?
Elves - Sorceror seems more fitting, esp. with +2 Cha instead of +2 Int
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I always liked the idea of the Bard as a favored class for the gnome, in fact my 3.0 gnome was rewritten into the bard class long before the 3.5 switch (omg, they made Roondar an Iconic!). I have never looked at the Bard class as a "traveling musician." That role is filled by levels of expert with the right skills.
The Bard is the ultimate example of a Pathfinder, one who's thirst for knowledge has led to a hodgepodge of abilities and a worldly demeanor. A little arcana, a little trickery, and a little martial prowess, and a little group-think in one convenient package. Links up pretty well with a gnome's illusion focus, prankster nature, seemingly martial inclinations (+1 to hit, +4 dodge, hooked hammer) and small stature (get the biggun's to deal with the ogre, it looks messy).
If I had to change one thing about the Bard it would be to give them a small boost to their combat. Perhaps a focus on Use Magic Device or a lean towards Warrior-Scribe would fit well.
In all, I think that the move for illusionist is more seated in the longings for the past and the weakness of the Bard class tacticly, not the meshing of the race and what the class could be. With the bump to d8 hit die and whatever other wonders the brains at Paizo think up it could be a match made in heaven.
just my thoughts,
Roondar Kith Jaroo Nubar Akari Winfred Gillow Turen
storyteller, troublemaker, Pathfinder
I like the idea of Gnomes getting to choose Bard or Druid for a favored class to make up for them being shafted in that other game system.
For the people wanting elves to get a charisma bonus instead of intelligence, please keep in mind that their unnatural beauty is often countered by their legendary douchebaggery.
my vote is for illusionist or druid since they have a fey bent to them . it makes sence to me that both paths would be open to them and make them unique at having 2 favored classes but either class would suit the new flavor .
The Bard is the ultimate example of a Pathfinder
Yes, and we have a bard in the current pregen list of characters. But, it's not a gnome. It's a halfling. I find that much more fitting.
Funny, but I always thought halflings should be changed to secretive individuals who would do anything to protect their families. Like adding a darker edge to Bilbo from The Hobbit. A homebody who values close family ties, but overall as a race are very secretive to outsiders, and willing to do anything to protect that home and their way of life, hence why it’s common for many of them to pick up rogue levels. I guess it would be like adding a little of the old Darksun halfling into the mix.
For the gnomes being fast talker and having a friendly nature suites them better. Halflings pull away from the rest of the world while gnomes embrace it.
I guess an argument could be made for sorcerer, druid, illusionist, or bard but you can always house rule-it. The gnomes are closer to fey than the elves and the elves have way more time on their hands to be studying so I can see the logic behind making wizard favored class for them and as
For the people wanting elves to get a charisma bonus instead of intelligence, please keep in mind that their unnatural beauty is often countered by their legendary douchebaggery.
the +2 in charisma is negated by the +2 in douchebaggery
While I kind of like the idea of gnomes going back to having illusionist as their favored class, and having +2 int, +2, con, and -2 str, it does kind of fly in the face of the backwards compatibility thing. Anything that strays too much from that concept concerns me, as it feels a bit like the focus of the project is off a bit, even though it would actually be "backwards compatible" with older editions.
So I guess I'm in favor of keeping things the way they are, to make it mesh better with 3.5 material, especially since the initial Golarion information on gnomes was written with 3.5 in mind.
And if I use them in the Realms I can houserule gnomes back to the illusionist mode.
I like the idea of a fey descent to have a CHA bonus and with that bonus be a bard which would come naturally to a race of storytellers and song singers. The natural abilities that they have would work. They could still have illusionist as well but it just doesn't fit as strong as it once did. And the new fluff they have added make them slightly less incline to be a wizard now as well but not totally. They still can and you can still do a house rule. No matter what Paizo does the house rules will all still be around. That is why they are house rules something as sacred cow like as a party of Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard.
That being said I think that for the most part the feel they are going for so far have been done well with these rules with a few exceptions. This isn't the thread for them this is just for Gnomes so I'll leave this at that.
I believe the reason they moved gnomes away from illusionist as a favored class is because illusionist is a subset of wizard. If elves have wizard, and gnomes have illusionist, then elves are able to specialize in the same thing gnomes are supposed to excel at.
Bard for gnomes has never sat well for me; it doesn't fit with how I've long seen them (which is somewhat stereotypically Jewish, if the truth be known [gnome?]). If Pathfinder gnomes are going fey, I can see it working, but the musical aspect of the bard still seems like an uncomfortable fit.
I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that disagreed with gnomes.... the classic flavor is illusionist, but if it made rules easier the preferred class of wizard would be fine.