I know it messes with backwards compatability a bit but personally i like the idea of paladin as a prestige class myself. If you think about it in real world terms how many Knights started off that way most served time as a squire of a knight or other noble. while this is not practical for a roleplaying game if paladin was a prestige class available at about 5th level for a fighter (and maybe cleric ect. depends on the game) it would feel like an achivement rather than a choice.
Check out the Prestige Paladin variant in the SRD. We've been using it for some time now and have no interest in going back to the paladin as a base class.
I know it messes with backwards compatability a bit but personally i like the idea of paladin as a prestige class myself. If you think about it in real world terms how many Knights started off that way most served time as a squire of a knight or other noble. while this is not practical for a roleplaying game if paladin was a prestige class available at about 5th level for a fighter (and maybe cleric ect. depends on the game) it would feel like an achivement rather than a choice.Check out the Prestige Paladin variant in the SRD. We've been using it for some time now and have no interest in going back to the paladin as a base class.
I personally like the idea of the Paldin and for that matter the Bard & Ranger being Presitge classes....However, backward compatability is an issue... the only reason that the Paizo versin of 3.5 is even viable is that there are enough people who don't want to switch to 4e (whatever their reason may be). If you take out any of the base classes and make them prestige classes your going to alienate the people who play those base classes. Though I wouldn't mind seeing those three as a sidebar in the prestige class section with a note saying that if you use them, you have to remove the base class as an option.
I personally like the idea of the Paldin and for that matter the Bard & Ranger being Presitge classes....However, backward compatability is an issue... If you take out any of the base classes and make them prestige classes your going to alienate the people who play those base classes. Though I wouldn't mind seeing those three as a sidebar in the prestige class section with a note saying that if you use them, you have to remove the base class as an option.
I agree, it's not for everyone, and backwards compatibility is high on my list of concerns as well. I'm a sucker for sidebar options, though! (In case that hasn't already been made obvious with regards to skills, action points, etc.)
|
I know I've already posted a long synopsis of how I would change the paladin to make it more 'heroic chivarly' and less of a fighter with spells. Along with the various auras (a la paladin in DDO or Marshall class type things) that i suggested, I'd like to add a few things to that:
1) DO away with spells. They aren't all that great anyways. Theres really only two paladin spells that are great 1st level Bless Weapon and 4th level Holy Sword.
2) Get rid of Remove Disease as a seperate ability (include in lay on hands )
3) to make up for spells, allow the paladin to do more types of healing with its lay on hands: Cure wounds, at first - as one levels he can do lesser restore, remove disease, neutralize poison, Restoration eventually.
4) Also make the Smite Evils more diverse. Not just damage. Some of the paladin spells should be incorporated into the things that the smite can do: Smite can act as Bless Weapon, bypass certain other damage reduction; act as holy damage etc. The smites Evils need to be more common of an action and be a little more diverse - again, in lieu of memorizing spells
5) Get rid of the mount. Most campaigns dont even ever make them worth the while. Instead of a mount - a bonded weapon that grows more powerful as he grows in level. The paladin can continue to make it powerful, imbue it with magical energy damage, etc.
(to overview the other changes I suggested - 4 skills - not two; Aura of Courage be diversified to allow a bonus to party's AC, or Saves, or Attacks, or damage, etc and gets more powerful, or more types added as he goes up, and finally the Divine Grace needs to be a low bonus at early levels that increase as one takes more levels of paladins, instead of allowing a 2 level pit-stop by charismatic characters to get that sudden +4 or 5 to all saves.)
Robert
As I said before, I like the idea of a customizable Aura.
Getting at... IDK... 4th level, a range of 30ft. and the first pick from the Aura list:
Courage: Self-Immunity to fear, allies +4 against fear effects
Fear: Self-Immunity to feat, enemies -4 to fear effect
Strength: Allies (and self) +1 AC and Damage
Weakness: Enemies -1 AC and Damage
Freedom: Allies (and self) +4 against Enchantment
Dominance: Enemies -4 against Enchantment
Determination: Allies (and self) +1 to-hit
Despair: Enemies -1 to-hit
and another pick every 4 or 5 levels or something similar.
(Aura range increasing per 15/30ft. with every pick).
I'm all about options. Being able to swap out auras, or get a weapon instead of a horse, are cool. Better options for smiting would be great. But ditching spells that the player gets to choose -- even if they're a bit lame -- in favor of assigned "spells" that you don't get to pick, is a step in the wrong direction, to my mind. The only way I'd be in favor is if I get the same number of abilities with the same number of options -- a pretty tall order.
If you don't like the idea of paladins having spells, rename them "divine abilities" or "maneuvers" or "1/day class features." But what they are, mechanically, is an easy way to provide a lot of options for a fairly large number of abilities. [On that note, remove disease is already a spell. So roll it into the paladin's spells. If he needs to remove a disease, he can prepare the spell; if not, why waste a class feature on it?]
|
|
A few months ago, I posted this suggestion for a ground-up rebuild of the paladin. It's a non-caster, aura-using type class. Archade has kindly submitted his version of the class (we game together), but there are some fundimental differences in our philosophy of approaching the rework. My opinion is that the class is too weak to be playable as it stands in 3.5/SRD and needs a major overhaul (see below).
I've had the opportunity to play test it in my AoW game and it works great! The player does not miss spellcasting, but it is not overpowering the rest of the party. Here is the class in its entirety:
Paladin
Alignment: Lawful good.
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills:
The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: The Paladin
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Class Ability Auras Known
1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite 1/Day (Magic) -
2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands -
3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Divine Health, Holy Conviction -
4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Holy Aura +1 1
5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Smite 2/day (Lawful or Good) 1
6 +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Companion, Lay on Hands (Improved) 1
7 +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Bonus Feat 2
8 +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Holy Aura +2 2
9 +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Lay on Hands (Greater) 2
10 +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Smite 3/day (Cold Iron or Silver) 3
11 +11/+6/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bonus Feat 3
12 +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Holy Aura +3 3
13 +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Lay on Hands (Superior) 4
14 +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Holy Conviction (Share With Allies) 4
15 +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Bonus Feat 4
16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Smite 4/day (Adamantine), Holy Aura +4 5
17 +17/+12/+7/+1 +10 +5 +5 - 5
18 +18/+12/+7/+2 +11 +6 +6 - 5
19 +19/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 6
20 +20/+14/+9/+4 +12 +6 +6 Smite 5/day (Epic), Holy Aura +5 6
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the paladin.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura of Good (Ex)
The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.
Smite (Su)
A paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her paladin level attack and damage rolls, and the weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction or harming incorporeal foes. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, then Smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up. A paladin may Smite 1 + Cha bonus (if any) times per day.
At 5th level, a paladin’s smite attack counts as good or lawful aligned for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. A 10th level paladin’s smite counts as silver or cold iron. At 15th level, the paladin’s smite attempt counts as adamantine, and at 20th level the paladin’s smite attempt counts as Epic.
Divine Grace (Su)
At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Lay on Hands (Su)
Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level × her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. She may also sacrifice 5 points of healing to remove 1 point of ability damage or remove the Dazed, Fatigued or Sickened condition from one individual. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
At higher levels, the Paladin may use Lay on Hands to have additional effects. At 6th level, a paladin may sacrifice 10 points of healing to remove the Exhausted, Nauseated, Poisoned or Stunned condition. At 9th level, she may sacrifice 20 points of healing to remove a negative level or Blinded, Deafened, Diseased or Paralyzed conditions. At 13th level, she may spend 40 points to restore 1 point of ability or level drain or remove a Curse, Domination or Geas effect.
Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
Holy Conviction (Su)
Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). At 14th level, the paladin may share this ability with all allies within 30’ as long as she is alive and conscious.
Divine Health (Ex)
At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Holy Aura (Su)
Starting at 4th level, a paladin can begin to project the favour of their in the form of a magical aura (see Holy Auras sidebar). These auras can protect her companions or demoralize evil foes.
Projecting an aura is a swift action, and a paladin can only project one aura at a time. An aura remains in effect until the she uses a free action to dismiss it or project a new one in its place. It may be active continuously, and may be in effect even before an encounter begins. Auras affect all allies (including the paladin) within a 30’ radius with line of effect. It is automatically dismissed if you become unconscious or dead, but remains active if you are otherwise incapacitated and unable to act (eg. Paralyzed),
The bonus granted by the aura is +1, and increases by +1 every 4 levels (8th, 12th, 16th, 20th). The paladin may only learn a limited number of auras and cannot change them once they are selected.
Paladin Holy Auras:
Succour: Allies gain fast healing equal to the paladin’s aura bonus. Characters may only heal until half of their original HP are recovered.
Steadfastness: Allies gain a morale bonus to their saving throws equal to twice the paladin’s aura bonus.
Peace: Allies gain a morale bonus to Diplomacy and Heal Checks equal to twice the paladin’s aura bonus
Defiance: Allies gain DR/Evil equal to twice the paladin’s aura bonus.
Puissance: Allies gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to the paladin’s aura bonus.
Lifekeeping: Allies may ignore negative levels inflicted by necromantic effects and energy drain. Each ally may ignore one negative level per point of the Paladin’s aura bonus. Once the maximum number of negative levels have been cancelled, the ally may not take advantage of them again that encounter, even if the paladin projects the aura again.
Wrath: Evil foes suffer a morale penalty to their saving throws equal to the paladin’s aura bonus. Undead suffer double this penalty and it applies to turn resistance too.
Companion (Ex)
At 5th level, a paladin attracts a special follower. They may choose from a Mortal or Celestial Companion. All companions are Lawful Good. Calling a Companion takes 24 hours of uninterrupted prayer and meditation.
A Mortal Companion is a fighter of the paladin’s race. They begin play 2 levels lower than the paladin and progress as a regular NPC Cohort (see the Leadership feat). Celestial Companions are extraplanar magical beasts (celestial template) or outsiders that are sympathetic to the Paladin’s cause. The ECL of a celestial Companion is 2 below that of the paladin. If the paladin calls upon a celestial magical beast that is willing to serve as a mount, ignore the LA of +2 when calculating its ECL.
If a Companion dies, the paladin may attract a new one immediately. If the paladin ceases to be Lawful Good or looses her class abilities, the Companion departs and a new one must be called if her status is restored. A paladin may still select Leadership as a feat, but the Companion counts as a familiar, for the purposes of determining the other cohort’s level.
Bonus Feat:
At 7th, 11th and 14th levels, a paladin may select a bonus feat from the following list. They must still meet the feat’s perquisites in order to select it: Cleave, Extra Smiting, Great Cleave, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus (Ride), Spirited Charge, and Trample.
Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates
While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin auras and abilities (including their Companion, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies or bonus feats). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.
A Note Regarding Divine Feats:
The notable absence of Turn Undead from the paladin’s class abilities would appear to make them no longer qualified to take divine feats. To remedy this, count the Smite ability as the prerequisite instead of Turn Undead. Obviously, divine metamagic (any metamagic feats, really) are not useful to the class as they are no longer spellcasters.
Hello, this is actually the first time I posted anything but I am a Paladin player and figured I should get my 2 cents in when the new one is designed. There are a few things I noticed when I was studying the work in the pathfinder 3.75 classes, that you never really wanted to remove anything, only add make a class worth taking to the end. As we all know the existing paladin is worthless after level 5 (3 if you take prestiege paladin). I love the existing 3.75 classes they have done and studied and tried to see where they may want to take my beloved class.
As hard as it is for me to say it is time that paladin become flexible, base classes arnt ment to be so rigid. So my version of a paladin is used like a cleric where any alignment is choosen and a character will be held to a code of conduct based on their faith and moral/ethical position. In an alignmentless system paladin could not exist being that they are the avatars of such alignments.
Requirement: Paladins must be of an alignment other than true neutral.
Hit Die: D10
Skills: 4+int (This is due to more training in a particular field unlike a fighter whis completely devoted to a weapon. Paladins tend to take more skills like diplomacy, and sense motive, and more chaotic paladins may take deception.)
Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Ride (Dex).
Paladins also gain additional skills based on their alignment.
Good: Diplomacy
Evil: Intimidate
Lawful: Sense Motive
Chaotic: Deception
(The encourages paladins to take an extreme alignment.)
Base Attack: Good
Good Saves: Fort and Will (Because a Paladin should have the greatest conviction of any class, and rangers get two good saves, why cant we?)
Level/Special
1: Aura of (choosen alignment), Detect (opposed alignement), Smite (opposed Alignment)
2: Divine Gift, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
3: Domain Aura, DR 1/(Opposed Alignment)
4: Turn/Rebuke Undead, Divine Gift
5: Special Mount, Smite (Opposed Alignment)(Magic)
6: Divine Gift, DR 2/(Opposed Alignment)
7: Domain Aura
8: Divine Gift
9: DR 3/(Opposed Alignment)
10: Divine Gift, Smite (Opposed Alignment)(Silver/Cold Iron)
11: Domain Aura
12: Divine Gift
13: DR 4/(Opposed Alignment)
14: Divine Gift
15: Domain Aura, Smite (Opposed Alignment)(Adamntine)
16: Divine Gift
17: DR 5/(Opposed Alignment)
18: Divine Gift
19: Domain Aura
20: Divine Gift, Smite (Choosen Alignment), Enlightenment
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Same (I would like to suggest that we convert completely to the weapon group system, in that case this would be 3+Basic weapon groups)
Aura of (Choosen Alignment): you choose the alignment inwhich your character is the avatar of, i.e. Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos may pic ethical or moral but not both. Otherwise this functions like aura of good
Detect (Opposed Alignment): like detect evil but is against the axis opposed to your choosen alignment.
Smite (Opposed Alignment): The attack remains the same but is no longer times per day but has a recharge time of 5 (or so) rounds. The ability also gains material properties for the purposes of overcoming DR at certain levels.
Divine Grace: Unchanged
Divine Gift: Just glorified bonus feats, but count paladin levels as fighter levels for the purpose of take weapon feats associated with diety's favored weapon.
Lay on Hands: May spend points (as suggested by another poster) to remove other conditions. (by the way this was a great idea refer back a few pages and they have complete details.)
Domain Aura: These are a list group of special auras projected depending on which god you worship or which alignment you repersent (will post list later).
Divine Body?: DR 1/(Opposed Alignment) increases ever 4th level hereafter.
Mettle: Never suffer effects that happen when you pass a fort or will save against a spell, ie damage even if you pass or such.
Turn/Rebuke Undead: May need work but could stay
Special Mount: Same but may take planar versions at higher levels (acts like druids upgrading companions)
Enlightenment: You become an outsider, and gain some special features of you particular alignment or diety (more to come).
Its rough but I will post more from my laptop in class.
Im back, so last time I left some holes in the build and now is time to clarify.
1: Lay on Hands, the gentlemens post directly above my original post is possibly the best I have seen to handle lay on hands.
2:Domain Aura, this ability basically allows you to choose domains of your diety or idealogy and gain specific abilities as such. Though you may want to work on the amount I am starting to think three is a good number, five is alittle over the top (I was really just trying to not leave any levels blank). Here are some examples of domains translated into paladin auras:
Air = Aura of the Wind (Can use run while flying, you and allies gain +4 to fly checks)
Animal = Aura of Fury (Badger Rage 1/day but the effect extents to your allies)
Artifice = Aura of Construction (conjur spells are treated as 1 level higher, you and allies gain +4 to craft checks)
Blight = Aura of Blight (turn plants, +4 vs spells and abilities of fey)
Chaos = Aura of Resolve (immune to charm and compulsion, allies gain +4 to saves vs effects)
Charm = Aura of Temptation (immune to charm and complusion, enemies must pass DC or be fascinatied for a round or so)
Creation = Aura of Creation (Conjur spells are treated as 2 levels higher)
Darkness = Aura of Shadow (darkness at will, you and allies gain +4 to stealth checks)
Death = Aura of Death (immune to death effects, dieing enemies must pass DC or be subject to death knell)
Destruction = Aura of Destruction (you and you allies are considered to have improved critical)
Earth = Aura of Fortitiude (immune to poison, allies gain +4 vs poison)
Evil = Aura of Despair (immune to fear, enemies must pass DC or become shaken)
Fire = Ward of Flame (you and your allies have resistance 10 vs fire)
or Aura of Flame (+1d6 of fire damage, allies deal +1 fire damge)
Design note: of course there will be more for the other elements ie acid, cold, electricity and sonic (the almost forgotten element)
Glory = Aura of Command (gain leadership, or leadership score is increased by 2, you and followers within aura gain +4 vs fear charm and complusion)
Good = Aura of Courage (immune to fear, allies gain +4 vs fear)
Healing = Aura of Health (immune to Disease, allies gain +4 to saves vs effects)
Inquisition = Aura of Truth (zone of truth at will, you and allies gain +4 sense motive)
Knowledge = Aura of Insight (you and allies are treated as having improved iniatitive)
Law = Aura of Conviction (immune to charm, and complusion, allies gain +4 to saves vs effects)
Liberation = Aura of Freedom (freedom of movement, you allies gain +4 to saves vs effects)
Luck = (once per round you may influence any one roll by + or - 4 within the auras effect)
Madness = Aura of Insanity (immune to charm and complusion, enemies must pass DC or become confused)
Magic = Ward of Arcana (lesser globe of invurniblity, allies gain +4 vs arcane spell effects)OR Aura of Arcana (Arcane spells cast within the effect of the aura are treated as 2 levels higher and their DC increases by 2)
Design note: could create and intresting group of paladins to an arcane god who are mage defenders, kinda like the knights of Thay.
Nobility = Aura of Influence (you are treated one step closer to helpful when rolling diplomacy, you and your allies gain +4 diplomacy)
Plague = Aura of Filth (immune to negative effects of disease, enemies must pass DC or become diseased)
Plant = Aura of Growth (Control plants, you and allis gain fast heal 1)
Protection = Aura of Protection (Add your Cha to AC, allies gain +1 to AC)
Repose = Aura of Sancity (immune to death effects, allies gain +4 saves vs effects)
Rune = Aura of Mystery (detect secret doors at will, you and allies gain +4 search)
Scalykind = Aura of Reptilia (immune to poison, gain reptile mount, can command animal(reptiles))
Strength = Aura of Power (Wield oversized weapon, you and allies gain +2 on str checks)
Sun = Aura of Light (daylight at will, you and allies gain +4 to perception)
Travel = Aura of Expediance (+10ft movement, allies gain +4 to saves against fatigue)
Trickery = Aura of Lies (immune to illusions, you and allies gain +4 to deception checks)
Water = Aura of the Waves (can run while swimming, you and allies gain +4 to swim checks)
Weather = Aura of Endurence (immune to negative effects of enviroment, allies gain +4 to saves vs effects)
Of course there can be multipule for each domain which would allow gods with few domains to have enough aura options to support higher level paladins.These auras are abilities designed to offset a character not taking another class, so a true paladin of his ideals will stick to this class. Aurs are about equal with cleric domain powers which are usually alittle stonger than a feat, sometimes equal to two. Since paladins dont gain the domain spells (maybe the first 4 but not all of them) there domain aura is stronger than a clerics domain power. This also falls in line with a paladin eminating the raw ideal. In 3.5 this was lawful good courage and valor but here it may become flexible, like the death knight or the green knight. Each is a paladin of another cause or ideal.
Enlightenment: Most likely is see this ability making the character an outsider and giving them specials like a saint or even making them a saint if thats the direction you dicide to go. heres some suggested abilities:
Type: Outsider (Native)
Special Attacks:
-Divine Touch (Su): +1d6 damage vs opposed alignment
-Divine Power (Su): DCs vs opposed alignment increases by 2
Special Qualities:
-Resistance (Ex): Resistance 10 vs elements
-Damage Reduction (Ex): DR 10/opposed alignment (either add in class DR or not)
-Spell Resistance (Ex): SR Level + Cha
That should be more than enough to keep a player on the course. This sould also make the character at equal footing with characters who shopped around for prestiege classes or templates. Though you can make prestiege classes that enhance a paladin towards a particular cause by sacraficing class ability progressions for ones more suited for their character.
Questions, comments, concerns?
|
|
1: Lay on Hands, the gentlemens post directly above my original post is possibly the best I have seen to handle lay on hands.
Glad you like it. Can't take full credit though; the dragon shaman was my inspiration.
I'm impressed by the amount of thought you put into your idea for domain auras. I think that it's too many options though. If I were to grant more options, something like the Domain Devotions from Complete Champion would be a better approach IMO.
The other question is, of course, the idea of a non-LG paladin. Many people seem opposed to the idea. It just goes against their idea of what the word paladin represents. Fair enough.
If there were to be "paladins" of different alignments, I'd make them NG, NE, LN, CN so that the extremes can be represented in a warrior of pure good, ultimate evil, total law and complete chaos. That really isn't a paladin anymore so much as some sort of temple warrior, or "Templar" if you will. :)
Agreed, but I am afraid to say that the room for a base class with such a narrow view is gone. Classes are moving towards flexiblity, and this option give people the space needed to create any paladin vairent they need. I will always play my paladin as lawful good and follow the original code but it is not fair for us few to hog the role. I see they old paladin becoming a prestiege class. Being a first level paladin has always felt kinda like being a first level assassin or something with more title and prestiege than I deserve at first level.
So, yes I hate to say it but we are becoming Templar and can earn the right of paladinhood later in our career.
I've been working on a paladin "variant" called a Chosen One. The Chosen one can be of any alignment, so you can have from LG to CE. "Paladin" might just be a title the LG version uses to describe himself, while the CE might call himself a "Blackguard".
The main changes were to up the Smite ability to deal 1d6/2 levels and to change the Warhorse to a Planar Ally ability. That way, the Chosen One can select a mount or change it to a "battle companion" as he sees fit.
Also, to give them a bit of customization in their abilities, they gain Cleric domain abilities instead of some of the standard abilities, like Lay on Hands and such
Chosen One
Over the ages, the gods of Amberos have always employed mortal champions for their causes. Where it is generally the job of the clergy and clerics to spread word of a god and inspire worship of these divine beings, Chosen Ones are the warriors and champions of the gods, fighting against enemies and foes of the divine in a deities name.
Abilities: Strength and Wisdom are the primary attribute of a Chosen One, as most are known for their martial prowress and their link to the divine power they champion. Also, Dexterity figures in prominently as helps the Chosen One to avoid blows and affects the ability to control a mount in motion. A good Charisma is highly prized, as an influential Chosen One can lead armies to battle, and it fuels several of his divinely linked abilities. Constitution is important as a high score as the extra hit points keep the knight alive a bit longer. Finally, Intelligence plays its part off the battlefield in the political arena so many Chosen Ones are thrust into.
Alignment: Chosen Ones may be of any alignment, though they tend more towards alignment extremes such as Lawful Good, Chaotic Evil or True Neutral. Like clerics, a chosen one’s alignment must be within one step of his diety’s (i.e., only one step in the Lawful-Chaos axis or one step in the Good-Evil axis, but not both).
Religion: All chosen ones must chose a diety that the chosen one champions. Unlike paladins or some clerics, chosen ones MUST choose a diety or pantheon from which they draw their power. Note that if a chosen one ever ceases to promote the diety or pantheon he has chosen, he will not be able to advance in this class ever after again – even if the character chooses a new diety or pantheon to follow later on.
Background: Chosen ones are exemplary models of the god they champion, and come from a wide variety of backgrounds. Most chosen ones have taken up their cause after a particularly close brush with the presence of the diety of their calling. Some claim to have spoken directly to or have been spoken to the diety they champion, while others claim to have been marked in some way during their life – many claiming to have been marked at birth – to champion their diety.
Races: Chosen ones come from all races excepting those with gods that tend to be aloof of mortal affairs or those lacking gods – such as among elves on Amberos.
Other Classes: Chosen ones tend to defer to clerics of the same diety, though some have been known to clash with clerical sects who abhor combat. Lawful Good chosen ones may find common ground with Paladins of the same diety, though chosen ones of differing alignments or chosen deities may find themselves in direct conflict with such champions. Chosen ones tend to be reserved around other classes; friendship or enimity tends to be based on their usefulness in the chosen one’s cause.
Role: The chosen one is a front line fighter capable of holding his own in combat. His ability to cast divine spells is generally designed to augment his ability to destroy the hated foes of his diety and tend to be less beneficial to others.
Hit Dice: 1d10
Starting Money: 200 gp + (6d4 x 10 gp)
Class Skills
The chosen one’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Int), and Ride (Dex). Additionally, the chosen one gains the following additional skills as class skills based on alignment: Lawful - Diplomacy (Cha) and Sense Motive (Wis); Chaotic - Bluff (Cha) and Escape Artist (Dex) ; Good - Heal (Wis) and Knowledge (Any one) (Int); Evil - Appraise (Int) and Intimidate (Cha); Neutral - Gather Information (Cha) and Survival (Wis). See Chapter 4: Skills in the PHB for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at first Level: (2 + Int modifier) X 4
Skill Points as Each Additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier.
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Chosen One.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Chosen ones are proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons. They are proficient with light, medium and heavy armors, as well as shields. Note that armor heavier than leather apply to the skills balance, climb, escape artist, hide, jump, move silently, sleight of hand and tumble. Also swim checks suffer a –1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armor and equipment carried.
Alignment Aura (Ex): The power of a chosen one’s aura of Law/Chaos and Good/Evil equals his chosen one’s level, just like the aura of a cleric.
Detect (Su): At will, a chosen one can detect Law (if chaotic), detect Chaos (if lawful), detect Good (if evil) or detect Evil (if good). Nuetrals may detect for the presence of either form. Only one form of detect may be used at a time.
Smite (Su): At 1st level, the chosen one must take the ability to Smite Law (if Chaotically aligned), Smite Chaos (if Lawfully aligned), Smite Good (if Evilly aligned) or Smite Evil (if Good aligned). Only one form of smiting may be chosen, even if the character qualifies for more than one form. A True Neutral chosen one may choose one of the four abilities listed above. Thereafter, the chosen one may attempt a smite with one normal melee attack. The chosen one adds his Charisma modifier to her attack roll and deals 1d6 extra point of damage per two chosen one levels. For example, a 11th level chosen one with a 16 Charisma (+3 modifier) would deal an additional +6d6 points of damage with the smite attack. If the chosen one accidentally smites a foe that does not meet the alignment requirement, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 5th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the chosen one may smite one additional time per day as indicated on the class chart.
Divine Grace(Su): At 2nd level, the chosen one gains a bonus equal to his charisma modifier on all saving throws.
Power of Life And Death (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, the chosen one gains the ability to cure wounds (if good or neutrally aligned) or cause wounds (if evilly aligned) on himself or others by touch. If used in combat, this requires a touch attack to be successful. The chosen one can cure or cause a total number of hit points equal to his chosen one level X his Charisma bonus.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, the chosen one gains immunity to disease, including supernatural and magical diseases (such as mummy rot or lycanthropy). Evil chosen ones can choose to be carriers of disease and not be affected by them.
Planar Ally (Su): At 4th level, the chosen one gains the assistance of a specific planar ally. The chosen planar ally can be summoned to the chosen one’s presence once per day for up to one hour/2 levels of chosen one. Consult the table below for a list of planar allies that can be summoned.
If the summoned planar ally is slain, it may be replaced after the chosen one makes prayers to his or her diety for a 24 hour period.
If a chosen one uses a Planar Ally spell to summon his planar ally, he does not need to expend any experience when casting the spell for the first time that day. The chosen one cannot use the Planar Ally spell to summon his planar ally if the ally is slain or if the planar ally’s HD exceed that which can be called by the spell in question.
Spells: Starting at 4th level, a chosen one can begin casting a handful of spells from the cleric list. The chosen one’s spellcasting ability is Wisdom-based, and he must possess a minimum Wisdom of 10 + spell level to cast spells of any given level. A chosen one’s caster level is ½ his level in chosen one.
The list of known spells for a chosen one is 2 at 4th level (if Wisdom is 14 or higher), plus one additional spell per level. The additional spell can be from any level the chosen one can cast.
[Spell advancement as Paladin]
1st Domain Power (Su): At 4th level, the chosen one gains one of the domain abilities of the god he worships. The chosen domain ability cannot be changed once chosen. If the chosen one desires and is of good alignment, he may take the ability to Turn Undead instead of taking a domain power. If the chosen one is of evil alignment, he may choose to take the ability to Rebuke Undead instead of taking a domain power.
In addition to gaining the domain ability, the chosen one may add the spells on his chosen domain list to his spell list. If the chosen one takes the ability to turn undead, he adds the spells from the Good domain to his spell list. If the chosen one takes the ability to rebuke undead, he adds the spells from the Evil domain to his spell list. The chosen one does not gain an additional memorized domain spell per day, however.
2nd Domain Power (Su): At 7th level, the chosen one gains one of the domain abilities of the god he worships. A chosen one may choose the same domain that he chose at 4th level. In such a case, the effect granted by the chosen domain is doubled, or performed twice as often – the former if the domain ability is a constant use ability, the latter if the domain ability has a number of uses per day. The chosen domain ability cannot be changed once chosen. Turning or Rebuking undead may be taken as a choice instead of a domain power, as noted in the 1st Domain Power ability.
In addition to gaining the domain ability, the chosen one may add the spells on his chosen domain list to his spell list. If the chosen one takes the ability to turn undead, he adds the spells from the Good domain to his spell list. If the chosen one takes the ability to rebuke undead, he adds the spells from the Evil domain to his spell list. The chosen one does not gain an additional memorized domain spell per day, however.
Power Over Disease (Su): Starting at 6th level, the chosen one can Cure Disease (if good or neutrally aligned) once per week as the spell. Evil chosen one can cast Contagion as per the spell once per week. At 9th level, and every three levels thereafter, the chosen one can use this ability one additional time per week.
The casting level of this ability equals the Chosen one’s class level. The save against the Contagion version of the spell is equal to 13 + chosen one’s Charisma modifier.
A chosen one may expend a feat to gain a Fighter Ability pool. By expending the feat, the chosen gains a pool of 2 + Con modifier (minimum of 1) and one Fighter pool ability. The chosen one may choose to spend future feats on fighter abilities, but does not gain an automatic Fighter pool ability at 5th, 10th or 15th level as the fighter does.
Chosen One Planar Ally
A chosen one’s planar ally may be one of the following creatures initially
[code]
Creature Alignment
Quasit CE
Lemure (Devil) LE
Vargouille NE
Lantern Archon LG
Homonculus CG,CN
Fomorian Worker LN
Celestial Warhorse LG, NG, CG
Fiendish Light Warhorse LE, NE, CE
Anarchic Light Warhorse CG, CN, CE
Axiometric Light Warhorse LG, LN, LE
Elemental Light Warhorse N
[/code]
Advanced Planar Allies
[code]
Creature ECL Align
6th Level (level – 2) 4
Elemental, Small 4 Any
Gibbering Mouther 4 Any Chaotic
Fiendish Spider, Medium 4 Any Evil
Celestial Black Bear 4 Any Good
Dretch (Demon) 4 CE
Celestial Hippogriff 4 CG
Imp (Devil) 4 LE
Celestial Lion 4 LG
8th Level (level – 4) 6
Elemental, Medium 6 Any
Mephit 6 Any
Yeth Hound 6 Any Evil
Shadow Mastiff 6 Any Evil
Night Hag 6 Any Evil
Avoral Guardinal 6 Any Good
Unicorn 6 Any Good
Dretch (demon) 6 CE
Blink Dog 6 CG
Hell Hound 6 LE
Hound Archon 6 LG
10th Level (level – 6) 8
Elemental, Large 8 Any
Fiendish Annis (hag) 8 Any Evil
Unicorn 8 Any Good
Babau (Demon) 8 CE
Bralani Eladrin 8 CG
Hellcat (Devil) 8 LE
Celestial Gold Dragon Wyrmling 8 LG
12th Level (level – 8) 10
Elemental, Huge 10 Any
Hell Hound 10 Any Evil
Lammasu 10 Any Good
Vrock (Demon) 10 CE
Lillend 10 CG
Bone Devil 10 LE
Hound Archon 10 LG
Noble Djinni (Genie) 10 N, CG
Efreeti (Genie) 10 N, LE
14th Level (level – 10) 12
Elemental, Greater 12 Any
Devourer 12 Any Evil
Leonal (guardinal) 12 Any Good
Zelekhut (inevitable) 12 Any Lawful
Retriever (demon) 12 CE
Celestial Juvenile Copper Dragon 12 CG
Barbed Devil 12 LE
Lammasu 12 LG
16th Level (level – 12) 14
Bebilith (Demon) 14 Any Evil
Celestial Silver Dragon 14 Any Good
Kolyarut (inevitable) 14 Any Lawful
Abyssal Greater Basilisk 14 CE
Ghaele 14 CG
Fiendish Blue Young Adult Dragon 14 LE
18th Level (level – 14) 16
Fiendish Beholder 16 Any Evil
Leonal 16 Any Good
Marut (Inevitable) 16 Any Lawful
Celestial Charger (Unicorn) 16 CG
Fiendish Old White Dragon 16 CE
Celestial Adult Brass Dragon 16 CG
Ice Devil 16 LE
Celestial Half-dragon Lamamasu (lammasu) 16 LG
[/code]
|
|
to me there are two/2 things that bother me about paladins,
#1 a paladin Is a defender of a cause or an object, the nature of this object has no meaning, in other words, LG paladins are good for LG causes, but that do not must bind paladinhood to LG. ex: a defender of a king, the king may be LE or NE, but the paladin protec him. the paladins should probaly be bind to the legality factor but not to good. they should be allowed to be: good, neutral or evil, any of those, and legal.
#2 the mount, do I have till this moment,to give my reasons????
again to the paizo team from VENEZUELA, thankyou soooooooooooooo much!!!!
Proposal:
1. Limit Detect Evil to the same number of uses per day as Smite Evil.
2. Remove the Mount and make it a feat requiring Paladin Level 5 (oh, look, all characters gain a feat at that level).
3. Add, "Domain Powers (Su): Each paladin must choose a Lawful Good deity. Each deity has a number of domains associated with its faith, and its paladins must choose two of these domains to focus on (at least one of which must be either Law or Good). Each domain grants a number of domain powers dependent upon the level of the paladin (paladin levels count as caster levels for the purposes of domain powers. See the Spells and Magic Chapter for more information. A paladin gains both of the listed powers granted by his domains."
Now, there's something to look forward to beyond 6th level.
yeah nothing that would keep anyone on paladin past 5th im afraid and paladin mount is kinda what we do, its like druid with no animal companion. Aside paladin is a very frontloaded and underpowered class that the only thing it brings to table is roleplay. Looking at the new classes, if we start cutting down paladin there will be even less people playing it. I say go with a templar build and make people earn paladinhood as a prestiege class.