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DR is an interesting concept that I feel falls flat in it's presentation in 3.5. Why should I have to carry around a +1 silver weapon and a holy cold iron weapon, and a bludgeoning weapon for skeletons. My character you be able to be sucessful as an adventurer by using the same non-magical weapon throught his career. Here are two suggestions for fixing DR:
1) Make all DR flat DRX/-. Most of the time that's what it amount too any way unless its a simple DR 5/magic or 5/bludgeoning.
2) Get rid of all DR and give monsters or barbarians 1 extra hit point per hit dice for every 5 points of DR.
I on the other hand like DR the way it is in 3.5 and think it should stay.
I on the other hand like DR the way it is in 3.5 and think it should stay.
Alchemical Silver weapons need to be fixed: Cold iron has no penalty. Silver, however, reduce damage. Therefore, no one carries silver weapons, except perhaps as a non-enchanted backup weapon. Instead, they carry silversheen. There is no reason why Alchemical Silver needs to have a damage penalty.
Also, I feel that demons and devils should be able to hurt each other. People have gotten upset about Pseudodragon vs. imp. What about Imp vs. Imp? I think that DR/alignments should be based on an axis, rather than a specific end of that axis.
Other than these two issues, I think the DR system from 3.5 works great, both mechanically and flavorfully.
Yes i love DR myself it works very well
I'd like to see the return of "magic +1", "magic +2", etc. Magic is just to common not to put a qualifier on the minimum plus required to get through it.
And I agree about alchemical silver.
I think the 3.5 DR was one of the best changes from 3.0 to 3.5 please keep it the same
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I agree with cwslyclgh that 3.5 DR is a perfectly workable system. Cold iron has a pretty hefty drawback in that it makes enhancement damn pricey with the +2000gp add on. As long as the DR values are 5/10/15 and only go higher for truly epic encounters then it should work out just fine.
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I agree with cwslyclgh that 3.5 DR is a perfectly workable system. Cold iron has a pretty hefty drawback in that it makes enhancement damn pricey with the +2000gp add on. As long as the DR values are 5/10/15 and only go higher for truly epic encounters then it should work out just fine.
I'm personally not a fan of 3.5 DR, because it encourages the party to carry around the "golf bag of weapons". We once had a TPK due to DR, because we had just converted our 20th level PCs from 3.0 to 3.5, and nobody (except the DM) knew that the DR rules had changed. We were battling vampires (20th level NPCs, I think?), and my paladin (as always) cast 'Holy Sword' on his +5 Great Sword. It took quite a few rounds to realize that I should have cast 'Align Weapon' to make my sword 'Good'. The DM failed to mention that my damage was visibly reduced by DR (15 points per strike). The cleric was equally surprised to find this out, and the rest of the guys didn't stand a chance once the healers were down. It wouldn't have mattered anyway, since I assumed that 'Holy Sword' would punch through any DR and hadn't prepared 'Align Weapon'. Maybe it was our own fault for not reading those spell descriptions, but the DM should have made this rule change very clear since the adventure included monsters with DR.
That said, I'm a fan of DR in 3.0, because you only need one decent weapon and not a bunch of "aligned" weapons made of different materials.
I'm 100% in agreement with Monte Cook on this one: the "material" DRs are cool, but work a lot better if "+X" will also overcome them. Thus:
+1 weapons beat DR/magic
+2 weapons also beat DR/silver
+3 weapons also beat DR/cold iron
+4 weapons also beat DR/any other material (other than adamantine)
+5 weapons beat all special material DRs.
This system makes +5 weapons valuable again (in 3.5 they're practically worthless; you're always, 100% of the time, MUCH better off with a +1 weapon with special abilities).
DR/alignment or type (bludgeoning, etc.) remains as in 3.5, because it adds some cool flavor, IMO (and because a +5 slashing sword really shouldn't fully harm a creature that's resistant to slashing weapons).
I agree with cwslyclgh that 3.5 DR is a perfectly workable system. Cold iron has a pretty hefty drawback in that it makes enhancement damn pricey with the +2000gp add on. As long as the DR values are 5/10/15 and only go higher for truly epic encounters then it should work out just fine.I'm personally not a fan of 3.5 DR, because it encourages the party to carry around the "golf bag of weapons". We once had a TPK due to DR, because we had just converted our 20th level PCs from 3.0 to 3.5, and nobody (except the DM) knew that the DR rules had changed. We were battling vampires (20th level NPCs, I think?), and my paladin (as always) cast 'Holy Sword' on his +5 Great Sword. It took quite a few rounds to realize that I should have cast 'Align Weapon' to make my sword 'Good'. The DM failed to mention that my damage was visibly reduced by DR (15 points per strike). The cleric was equally surprised to find this out, and the rest of the guys didn't stand a chance once the healers were down. It wouldn't have mattered anyway, since I assumed that 'Holy Sword' would punch through any DR and hadn't prepared 'Align Weapon'. Maybe it was our own fault for not reading those spell descriptions, but the DM should have made this rule change very clear since the adventure included monsters with DR.
That said, I'm a fan of DR in 3.0, because you only need one decent weapon and not a bunch of "aligned" weapons made of different materials.
I liked 3.0 DR too, but not quite as well as 3.5 DR, the TPK described above sounds like it was the DM's fault to me... when my group switched from 3.0 to 3.5 I sat down with them and explained how DR changed, among other things.
as a side note Holy Sword says This spell allows you to channel holy power into your sword, or any other melee weapon you choose. The weapon acts as a +5 holy weapon
Holy Weapons are good aligned for the purposes of by passing DR
from the SRD: Holy: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction.
actually I too think that "alchimical" silver weapons doing -1 damage is lame, and ignore it in my games. (in fact I didlike the concept of alchimical silver... I would have prefered just the plain old silver weapons of by-gone eras of gaming).
As with many others, my problem with DR is the "golfbag of weapons" syndrome. It seems there are just too many different materials/aligned weapons that are required at higher levels of play.
DR would be much more simple if it was either DR x/- (which tends to screw the archer type characters) or if it reduced the damage inflicted by a percentage (say something like: DR 5 = 3/4 damage from attack, DR 10 = 1/2 damage, DR 15 = 1/4 damage). This would probably be pretty brutal at higher levels, but would at least give everyone a chance of actually doing some damage if they hit.
I like the 3.5 DR system. I find that it does not really cause much of a problem.
I will admit that I added a new material in my Planescape game called Greysteel. The idea came from an old dragon magazine. Greysteel counts as cold iron and silver.
Even with this, I only had a few instances where a character carried more than two weapons of different materials. Of course, sure striking was a common weapon enhancement.
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I don't know why everyone harps on the "golfbag of weapons" because you don't absolutely need them. The point of lowering the DR values was that if you DIDN'T have the correct weapon you could still inflict damage to a creature. By the time a PC faces a monster with 5, 10, or 15 points of DR the fighter or barbarian should be able to do much more than that. Power Attack, Smite, Sneak Attack, Favored enemy damage, etc should all help to put others over the top as it were.
Compare to 3.0 where 10, 20, and 30 points of DR made it nigh impossible to combat a creature if you didn't have the correct weapon. Even the best built fighters or barbarians have trouble when 30 points of damage is negated.
3.5 DR is better. It makes an encounter that would've been impossible doable with some effort. PC's shouldn't always have the right tool for the job. If they do, good for them. If not it's a fight they'll likely remember!
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I don't know why everyone harps on the "golfbag of weapons" because you don't absolutely need them.
I agree with you but the folks I know that play the fighting types want every point to count. You also have to remember the poor archers. Even a small amount of DR can make them useless because they rely on volume of fire rather than big hits.
As for DR being replaced by extra HP - I would agree with this if it were not for the fact that DR does nothing against energy attacks.
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I don't know why everyone harps on the "golfbag of weapons" because you don't absolutely need them.I agree with you but the folks I know that play the fighting types want every point to count. You also have to remember the poor archers. Even a small amount of DR can make them useless because they rely on volume of fire rather than big hits.
Well a 'golfbag of arrowheads' is cheaper than swords. Because of the big advantage of not being close, I think it balances out.
Or just get an elemental quiver and convert the arrows to energy ;-)
My concern is DR really hoses the fighter types with the new, limited, power attack.
Alchemical Silver weapons need to be fixed: Cold iron has no penalty. Silver, however, reduce damage. Therefore, no one carries silver weapons, except perhaps as a non-enchanted backup weapon. Instead, they carry silversheen. There is no reason why Alchemical Silver needs to have a damage penalty.
The penalty of cold iron is monney! ^^
I would so love to simply have my cold iron blades make -1 damge instead. ^^
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Well a 'golfbag of arrowheads' is cheaper than swords. Because of the big advantage of not being close, I think it balances out.
Or just get an elemental quiver and convert the arrows to energy ;-)
My concern is DR really hoses the fighter types with the new, limited, power attack.
Oh, if that were only true. Cold iron arrows are not cheap, and adamantine arrows are just silly expensive. I already need two quivers of Elhona just to keep from running out of arrows as it is.
Remember, when you hit with an arrow it simply breaks and can no longer be used so the cost adds up fast.
As for the elemental quiver - I have never seen one. What book was that from?
As for the power attack problem - fighter now do more damage as a part of their class so I don't see that as a big deal.
In my games, I use 3.5 DR with a twist: "Pluses" on the weapon bypass 5 points of DR/Magic. So if its a critter with DR 10/Magic, a +1 sword shears through 5 points of that, leaving it with "effectively" DR 5/- relative to you. A +2 sword would shear through the whole amount.
This revalues pluses for my group, and retains a bit of the old school "you cant hurt it unless you have a +"x" weapon" feel, without being completely punishing.
I might combine this with some of what Kirth Gersen posted for my own games.
Although, to be honest, basic "pluses" don't actually need revaluing. Two math majors at my college ran the numbers, there is hands down NO enchantment better overall for your weapon than another "+". Of course, that assumes a game where you encounter a wide variety of monsters. Undead, orc, dragon, or whatever heavy games tilt the math.
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In my games, I use 3.5 DR with a twist: "Pluses" on the weapon bypass 5 points of DR/Magic. So if its a critter with DR 10/Magic, a +1 sword shears through 5 points of that, leaving it with "effectively" DR 5/- relative to you. A +2 sword would shear through the whole amount.
This revalues pluses for my group, and retains a bit of the old school "you cant hurt it unless you have a +"x" weapon" feel, without being completely punishing.
I might combine this with some of what Kirth Gersen posted for my own games.
Although, to be honest, basic "pluses" don't actually need revaluing. Two math majors at my college ran the numbers, there is hands down NO enchantment better overall for your weapon than another "+". Of course, that assumes a game where you encounter a wide variety of monsters. Undead, orc, dragon, or whatever heavy games tilt the math.
The math majors of course were ignoring that spellcasters can pull +5 weapons out of thin air with the Greater Magic Weapon spell, so anything past +1 is almost always a waste of money.
Personally, I think 3.5 introduced too many DR types. Neither players nor DMs can remember which DR type the weird monsters have, and manually testing each combat (with so many options to pick from) is just not very conducive to fun. DR/magic is too easy to overcome; DR/chaotic and bludgeoning is too difficult to guess. I'm not proposing a fix for this, just agreeing the 3.5 system has way too many DR types.
The one house rule I use is that mithril weapons count as silver for bypassing DR -- spend a little bit more money and you don't get the -1 damage penalty.
Alchemical Silver weapons need to be fixed: Cold iron has no penalty. Silver, however, reduce damage. Therefore, no one carries silver weapons, except perhaps as a non-enchanted backup weapon. Instead, they carry silversheen. There is no reason why Alchemical Silver needs to have a damage penalty.
Isn't that because alchemical silver is a softer metal then steel? Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm 100% in agreement with Monte Cook on this one: the "material" DRs are cool, but work a lot better if "+X" will also overcome them. Thus:
+1 weapons beat DR/magic
+2 weapons also beat DR/silver
+3 weapons also beat DR/cold iron
+4 weapons also beat DR/any other material (other than adamantine)
+5 weapons beat all special material DRs.This system makes +5 weapons valuable again (in 3.5 they're practically worthless; you're always, 100% of the time, MUCH better off with a +1 weapon with special abilities).
I agree with Monte & Kirth on this one. That's how I roll... Monte Cook's Damage Reduction Redux
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The only change I would make is to add a second level of DR/magic.
DR/Magic +3. Other then that I like the current system.I have never seen 3.5 DR kill a group, and I play a lot.
I have ... at least it came close. In Living Greyhawk there was a series of mods where the critters had DR/nonmagic in increment of 5, 10, and 15. I think the party had like 1 non-magic weapon. It happened to be cold iron and they were convinced that was it. A couple of fights came close to a TPK.