Welcome to the Alpha release 1 Forum!

[Jason Bulmahn]

Hello again,

Welcome to the Pathfinder RPG Alpha release 1 forum. This is the forum for posting specific observations, queries, and concerns about the rules in release 1.

When starting a thread, please list rules in question and a page reference in the subject line of the thread. Please take a good look through all of the threads first to see if there is already one in progress about the rules in question. As future Alpha releases become available, new forums will be created to support those releases.

Thanks again for checking out the Pathfinder RPG. I look forward to reading your feedback.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

[Dualwolf]

Wow this is great....
but.....
I tried to personalize it and it gave me an error message
please please please lemme download this exciting new whatever it is thingy.
EDIT:
Scratch that, it seems to work now

[ericthecleric]

Well, well, well. Fascinating! I wish Paizo all the best with their upcoming RPG!

[Watcher]

Heh...

3.5
4th Edition

Pathfinder RPG...

Either way, Watcher can't lose!

[Dark_Mistress]

Soon as I get a chance i will take a look and see if I can set a few play test games up and give feedback.

[Papa-DRB]

Hoo Yah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

david
Papa-DRB
Grognard
My better half and me

[Charles Evans 25]

Smurf, smurf smurf smurf smurf smurf SMURRRRRRRF!

[bullonir]

Wow!

This kicks @$$!

I am very happy.
I would have been torn if Paizo had gone with 4E all the way, cos I wasn't and I really respect your products!

Patrick

[Dragonhelm]

I wanted to offer my congrats to the fine folks at Paizo for taking this route. I think it can only benefit the RPG community.

[prashant panavalli]

From what I have skimmed through, it looks great! I am in the process of incorporating it into my Play by post savage tide game ( running almost 2 years) and will post a link here if anyone is interested.

[Blue_eyed_paladin]

Oh. My. Goodness.

I have had one of the worst weeks of my life this last week and reading this on the website made it all go away.

I love you guys.

This is fantastic. I've quickly read through my 65-page book and I'm highly impressed with the rules, the feel, and the revelation that all my hard work is not going to waste.

Thankyou, Lisa and everyone at Paizo. I am having an incredibly good night now thanks to you.

[Neithan]

I usually don't show any fanboy tendencies, but I just saw a link to Pathfinder and instantly had to create an account to download the Alpha. And I have to say, it's about everything I ever wished for! :D
Well, not completely, but since I'm actually asked to pick the tasty bits, this doesn't lessen its appeal in any way. I'm really looking forward to what will come out of this.

[reinbowarrior]

Well done guys.

This is what 4th edition should have been.

I've preordered the RPG and Beta already and have my group awaiting the playtesting.

Fixing the 3.5E niggles whilst maintaining backwards compatability with the 3.E product range?

You've done an amazing job lads, amazing.

[Heimdall]

Great news! Now tell me you'll also support PCGen and you'll have an instant buyer :)

[Lilith]

Heimdall wrote:

Great news! Now tell me you'll also support PCGen and you'll have an instant buyer :)

Zaister mentioned putting a bug in the dev's ear.

RPGXplorer would be nice too. :D

[Death_Jester]

I'm very happy with this turn of events and looking forward to getting to play more in the world you are creating. So far the Rise of the Runelords has shown nothing but quality work and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with a re-imagined 3.P.

Much like the poster above I have decided not to convert to 4.0 due to the sheer amount of money I have tied up in 3.5. Since this will be the logical successor to and compatible with that system you can guess where my money will be going.

Thanks for your time Jason it is greatly appreciated.

[ZeroCharisma]

Congratulations, Thank You and Kudos.

I am glad that you have firmly planted your lance in 3.5 territory and elated at the first glimpse of the product.

You have so rarely disappointed and I expect nothing but greatness from your endeavors. I look forward to introducing my group to the new ruleset and offering what I can in the way of feedback.

Thanks again Paizo for another class act!
-Sylvan

[tribeof1]

Jason and Paizo crew:
I'm excited about the decision and especially jazzed about the open playtest experiment you are embarking. I have a suggestion, however: how bout breaking the feedback forum into smaller chunks, ie Races, Classes, Combat, Magic, Meta, etc. I'm afraid the free-for-all posting is going to make it difficult to keep track of critiques and suggestions.

[DM Mogney]

Can't say that I am all that excited by the general concept. Here are my concerns.

1. Is anybody still playing 2nd edition now? In a few years any variant on 3.5 will probably feel like an old game. I can't imagine playing 2nd edition now, 3.5 is soooo much better. If 4th-ed is anywhere near as big an improvement over 3.5 as 3.0 was over 2.0. I can't imagine this idea lasting very long.

2. If Paizo wants to stick with 3.5, more power to em, but I wish rather than re-inventing the basic game mechanics, they would put that effort into making their adventures better. Pathfinder is great, but there is still tons of room for improvement.

3. Most of my group is really looking forward to 4ed. I run store bought modules because I have neither the time nor the inclination to build my own campaigns, the same can be said for converting a module from super-secret variant 3.5 to 4ed.

4. If I did want to convert to 4ed, I suspect there will be conversion guides out there that will be rendered useless by this new ruleset.

anyway, that is just my opinion.

I appreciate the effort anyways.

[DeadDMWalking]

Hey Paizo staff.

I'm as excited as all get out. But I'd like to ask that you help us organize our feedback. How about subforums by chapter? Easier to make sure posts are seen at the relative time and endless threads with the same title aren't generated each week.

[Jason Bulmahn]

Hello Everybody,

Just a couple of quick announcements.

There is some talk of spliting the boards up by chapter or some such mechanism. I do not think we expected quite this level of feedback so quickly. I will know more on this soon.

I am just starting to go through this folder to look for feedback and suggestions. Please be patient. I have a long way to go.

Thanks and keep the feedback coming.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

[Mitch Brock of Boston]

So excited to hear you're staying 3.5! Solved my subscription dilemma and ensured me a place to get fresh published adventures for the game table! Thank you Paizo for sticking with the fans!

[ElmoFromOK]

Jason, I wanted to say thank you for taking the initiative on this.

For the past few months my gaming group has been very concerned about how the switch over to 4E would be handled and if this would cause us to spend a ton of money to keep up with a new curve.

But sticking with an old dying system did not seem like a good idea either, so I really think this is the best of both worlds. We will have a system that continues to evolve but does not require us to completely jump into something new.

I will be chiming in as much as I can once I fully grok the new system. :)

[Hypersmurf]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

There is some talk of spliting the boards up by chapter or some such mechanism.

One question...

I notice that a lot of threads that existed yesterday don't exist today.

Have they already been moved to new folders, or have they been removed as you read them, or does the board automatically discard threads as the number in a folder increases above 100?

When I try to follow links to threads I know were there (because they're in my browser history), I just end up at the folder index...

-Hyp.

[Stebehil]

Hypersmurf wrote:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

There is some talk of spliting the boards up by chapter or some such mechanism.

One question...

I notice that a lot of threads that existed yesterday don't exist today.

Have they already been moved to new folders, or have they been removed as you read them, or does the board automatically discard threads as the number in a folder increases above 100?

When I try to follow links to threads I know were there (because they're in my browser history), I just end up at the folder index...

-Hyp.

I had 101 or 102 threads at times, but it seems to be limited somehow. I guess that this is another of the bugs that plague the boards.

Stefan

[Hypersmurf]

Stebehil wrote:

I had 101 or 102 threads at times, but it seems to be limited somehow. I guess that this is another of the bugs that plague the boards.

Oh, marvellous.

I didn't bother keeping a copy of my two pages of feedback, since I knew it was available on here.

Gone now.

-Hyp.

[J S]

Hello! I posted this originally in http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/welcomeToThePathfinderRPG, and 'Kruelaid' was gracious enough to suggest posting in this feedback forum.

Dear Ms. Lisa Stevens, Mr. Erik Mona, Mr. Jason Bulmahn, and everybody else working on the new pathfinder RPG,

First off, I want all of you to know that i'm VERY excited about you guys releasing a 3.5 product at this particular point in time. i'm not planning to play 4E for a while, as I just started a new 3.5 campaign last month.

I've downloaded and read through the alpha version of your pathfinder RPG, and will give you my take on it, but first, I want to discuss what i've read online about initial reactions to your upcoming game.

1. various people at various forums have pointed out that the pathfinder RPG may be marketed to be one of the following:
a. an 'in print' version of 'core 3.5' rules,
b. a 'variant player's handbook'.

regardless of which one pathfinder RPG is marketed as, it may not appeal as much to customers of the other group. there's a possible solution, though: MAKE PATHFINDER RPG DO BOTH. allow me to explain...

you know how there are various options listed for character advancement on page 9 and starting hit points on page 11? I say make more options like that, but keep the 'core game' as close as possible to 'regular 3.5'. In this manner, pathfinder RPG will function as a replacement for 3.5 AND a variation of 3.5, simultaneously, in one 'core book'. later books could have not only new equipment, spells, and feats, but also new OPTIONAL RULES. It is my opinion that this will give the pathfinder RPG the absolute broadest appeal to customers of BOTH groups.
this approach is similar to 'grim tales' put out by badaxe games, and their book has received VERY good reviews [it's also hard to find].

now, what do I like about the alpha version?
1. racial abilities and favored classes redone
2. three speeds to advancement, no more skill points, additional skills and feats gained at later levels
3. cleric domain powers, at will orisons, turn undead that damages bad guys and heals good guys
4. various options for hit points
5. fighter armor and weapon training, weapon groups
6. better HD for the rogue, rogue talents, sneak attack works on more monsters
7. better HD for the wizard, wizard schools, at will cantrips
8. SOME skills being rolled together.
WHY do I like them?
1. these options tend to simplify various aspects of the game; together, they help a great deal.
2. these options tend to increase character options, so PC's are more diverse
3. these options tend to increase character durability/survivability

now, what do I NOT like about the alpha version?
1. barbarians get more trained skills than clerics, fighters, paladins, sorcerors, and wizards
WHY I don't like it; barbarians, fighters, and paladins seem fairly closely balanced to one another combat wise; why give one class more trained skills than the other two? why not give them 3 trained skills each?

2. cross class trained skills
WHY I don't like it; it's an additional thing to keep track of, and thus not a simplification, but a complication

lastly, these are some suggestions that I have that I think may make your pathfinder RPG more versatile and appealing to a broader audience. most of these [the ones that say "SUGGESTION; optional rule - "]are additional optional rules, similar to your 'three rates of advancement' and 'hit points', i.e., the DM running the campaign chooses which ones to use. this is in keeping with the philosophy of 'pathfinder RPG is 3.5 core AND variant rules in one book'.

1. SUGGESTION; remove the category 'cross class trained skills'; let skills picked at later levels be trained class skills instead of trained cross class skills.
EFFECT;
a. less bookeeping; ALL skills either trained or not.
b. characters slightly more powerful
c. easy to plug in to 3.5 material
d. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's

2. SUGGESTION; optional rule - allow more 'trained skills' at first level, perhaps 1, 2, or 3 more; let this/these skills be anything the player wants, NOT just a skill listed for that class, let it be treated as a class skill in every way; optionally, reduce amount of new skills gained at later levels, perhaps a new skill every three levels? every four levels?
EFFECT;
a. slightly more front loaded
b. low level characters more versatile.
c. characters slightly more powerful
d. easy to plug in to 3.5 material

3. SUGGESTION; optional rule - damage and AC increases, similar to HD and BAB, i.e., good/fair/poor increases? fighter gets best AC and damage increases? Also, at character creation, player chooses what KIND of damage, i.e., melee, ranged, magic, or 'special attacks'...only choose one.
EFFECT;
a. less reliance on magic items
b. characters more powerful
c. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's
d. easy to plug in to 3.5 material

4. SUGGESTION; optional rule - multiple 'elite arrays'; three for 25 point buy, three for 28 point buy, three for 32 point buy.
EFFECT;
a. different 'power levels' for different games
b. no dice rolls needed to generate stats
c. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's
d. great for tournaments
e. easy to plug in to 3.5 material

5. SUGGESTION; roll a few more skills together; include list that shows what '3.5 skills' were rolled into pathfinder rpg skills.
climb, swim, survival, heal into survival plus?
diplomacy into linguistics?
disguise into deception or stealth?
disable device into theft?
escape artist into acrobatics?
handle animal, diplomacy, intimidate, ride into [new social skill]?
EFFECT;
a. fewer skills
b. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's
c. easy to plug in to 3.5 material [with old vs new skill list]
d. characters slightly more powerful

6. SUGGESTION; optional rule - the heal skill allows pc's to recover from light damage. requires herbs, bandages, magic?
Number of times heal skill can be used per day = .6 x HD + skill rank ?
HP healed = level + .6 x HD?
EFFECT;
a. less '5 minute adventure day'
b. combat less deadly
c. characters more powerful
d. less reliance on magic items
e. less reliance on cleric

7. SUGGESTION; [and optional rule to the suggestion] add the following feat 'skill focus: x; all checks made with this skill are at +3 [optional rule - +4 or +5]', and remove all '+2/+2' feats.
EFFECT;
a. reduces feat count
b. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's

8. SUGGESTION; optional rule - increase rate of attribute increases to +1/every other level or +1/every three levels.
EFFECT;
a. less reliance on magic items
b. characters more powerful
c. easy to generate NPC's or high level NPC's
d. easy to plug in to 3.5 material.

9. SUGGESTION; optional rule - characters receive 70% of their hit die instead of rolling, rounded up. for example, fighters receive 7hp +con bonus every level.
EFFECT;
a. goes good with elite array stat generation
b. better than rolling a one for hit points.
c. easy to generate NPC's or high level PC's
d. easy to plug in to 3.5 material
e. characters slightly more powerful

[yellowdingo]

1. Cultural Templates for Core Classes.

2. A broader selection of Core Races (human, elf, Gnome, Dwarf, Halfling, Goblin, Kobold, Araena, Dopplganger).

[Adam Laux]

I love it but i do see some small glitches

The cleric has more opportunity to have at will, 30ft blasty abilities.
solution: give the elemental domains a at will ability to either, craft a elemental melee weapon which does 1d6 +1 elemental damage (+1 every two levels, or allow them to give their weapon a +1 elemental damage with a additional +1 every five levels (lets keep the auto blasty to the arcane folk, k?)

The conjurer, not the abjurer has a armor ability. look I know that mage armor is conjuration and shield is abjuration, maybe they need swapping ( I summon forth a magic shield or I weave an abjuration ward to protect my body)
solution: give the Abjurer the Conjurers armor specialty bonus and swap out their 1st level 10ft armor buff for a 10ft 5 point resistance buff that last as long as concentration is maintained (10 points at 10th level). give the conjurer a specialty bonus such as a +2 to the strength and Constitution of summoned entities, as well a a +1 to caster level for all conjuration durations. its really what conjurers and abjurers want to do

The Invokers Specialty bonus is a touch weak
solution: simply allow their bonus damage to add to their at will Fire Ray, its okay for the Invoker to have a slightly mightier at will ability, it breaks nothing (as far as I see)

Gnomes, Halflings and Elves stats and favored classes. are not living up to the thematics that people are asking for
solution: Gnomes and halflings need to swap intelligence and charisma. first, we dont need two core races being dexterity intelligence primary. secondly Gnomes need favored class Wizard, or preferably Illusionist specifically. 3.0 and 3.5 nearly killed our gnomish friends and we need to look back at the healthier times of tricksy Gnomish Illusionist. Half elf and Orc got beefed, no love for the Gnome? anyways Halfing rogues will still be a prefered rogue race even if the elf has traditionally better rogue stats ( a bonus to charisma makes them better feinters and actually having favored class in rogue give them a +2 hitpoint bump per level over their Elven counterparts.)
elves are a touchy subject so this is said lightly, I prefer for elves to gain +2 dex +2Cha -2 Con. and have favored class being sorcerer. they should be blessed with natural magic, and have easy access to fey heritage abilities. this is not as necessarily of a issue, Elves are not my strongest point. (I know if I had my way I would have negated my previous rant about two similar stat builds, I would argue for elves to have +2 to their wisdom, but that has had no real presence on the message boards)

more to come...

[Vic Wertz]

Stebehil wrote:

I had 101 or 102 threads at times, but it seems to be limited somehow. I guess that this is another of the bugs that plague the boards.

If forums get more than 100 threads, the older threads get pushed into the archive, which is searchable but not browsable. It's important that this not happen in the playtest forum, so we'll either need to keep subdividing forums or change the archiving behavior.

[Vic Wertz]

JL wrote:

Hello! I posted this originally in http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/welcomeToThePathfinderRPG, and 'Kruelaid' was gracious enough to suggest posting in this feedback forum.

It would be best to break any feedback up into the appropriate categories, and post in the appropriate subforum, not in this general discussion "Welcome" thread.

[DeadDMWalking]

Arggh.

Last night I had a long post that gotten eaten by the boards. It wasn't so long that I expected it to happen, and I thought I had it in my browser cache. Always annoying. But the point of the post is probably best situated here.

I think it would be a good idea for each suforum to have a sticky thread where Jason can tell us briefly what the status is. Obviously over the next year you're going to be working on different things. By trying to discuss the thing you're currently working on, we can make our feedback more timely and informative. For example, I'm mostly talking about skills right now. Once skills is ironed out (at least as far as the Alpha 2 release is concerned) I would happily move on to a different subject. Or, if you're not willing to consider skills now, work on something else that needs work (like combat feats).

If we produce weeks of material on something you're not interested in looking at, you're going to have more trouble reviewing it and determining what is worthwhile. This would also be a good place to put design constraints. Since you want to aim for compatability, you might state what is required and what is optional. For example, saying that the new system will use classes will avoid a poster coming up with a super-cool best ever classless system that you couldn't consider because to too many of your fan base it 'wouldn't be D&D'. By sharing what you think is the design criterion, we will be better able to help you.

In addition, it might not be a bad idea to run some kind of 'design competition'. Tell people on Monday that you're looking for a skill system that does x, y, and z, and that to submit their idea for consieration it must follow format a, b, c and two weeks later you will review the various proposals. Allow the community to vote for the one they think is best and explain why, but retain the choice. The best poll would have everyone rank proposals from best to worst. Thus if the two most popular are hated by the other group, but everyone has the same second choice, that might be the one to choose.

[Hypersmurf]

Vic Wertz wrote:

If forums get more than 100 threads, the older threads get pushed into the archive, which is searchable but not browsable.

Sounds good in theory, but the threads I'm talking about don't appear to have made it into the archive either.

-Hyp.

[KnightErrantJR]

Maybe I'm just being a pain, but after seeing yet another round of new threads on skills, and yet another round of threads on skills turn into a list of alternate skill system, and seeing even more threads pop up without any reference numbers for the topic at hand, I was just wondering if, maybe, the header for this section is just too easy to miss:

When starting a thread, please list rules in question and a page reference in the subject line of the thread. For example, New Combat Feats - Page 34. Please take a good look through all of the threads first to see if there is already one in progress about the rules in question. As future Alpha releases become available, new forums will be created to support those releases.

I think it would be a lot more helpful if we kept out thoughts a little more consolidated. I know I didn't provide reference pages in my playtest report, but I'm not sure how that works for playtests, but I do know that a lot of threads have been on the same topic, and have really just proliferated to where its hard to find a given comment that relates to a given topic.

[Steven T. Helt]

I really dig Pathfinder so far...thinking there has to be a better skill system, but then I thought the old one was almost perfect.

Looking for a forum on wizard specialist abilities..

[Vigil]

I'm reaaalllly looking forward to Alpha 2, and a great deal of that excitement is the expectation of virgin, clean forums that aren't so cluttered up with every Tom, Dick, and Harry's house-rules. I hope we'll see some actual play-testing feedback!

[cottonedge]

I love this concept! It fixes many frustrating glitches in previous editions and keeps the flexability I like. The Magic Item fix is worth the cost already.

I have a question though. How are all these suppliments and modules being sold wben the ink hasn't hit the paper yet? I am reticent to drop money on campeign settings and modules if I can't even get the player's guide yet.

I know it is on PDF and it looks great, but I really prefer to have a book in front of me while playing than a pile of copy paper.

Any suggestions as to how I can get this started prior to May... June ... August (???!) Is there a previous version that I didn't see?

Thanks,
Cottonedge

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hello again,

Welcome to the Pathfinder RPG Alpha release 1 forum. This is the forum for posting specific observations, queries, and concerns about the rules in release 1.

When starting a thread, please list rules in question and a page reference in the subject line of the thread. Please take a good look through all of the threads first to see if there is already one in progress about the rules in question. As future Alpha releases become available, new forums will be created to support those releases.

Thanks again for checking out the Pathfinder RPG. I look forward to reading your feedback.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer