Yesterday my players "finished" Skinsaw Murders. They were all 6th level (beguiler, cleric, duskblade, fighter and ranger) when entering the Shadow Clock. The Scarecrow wasn't that of a challenge for them, but consumed some recources. The three faceless stalkers were no problem, but Xanesha was. In fact she almost was a TPK! The party was able to deal around 30 points of damage. Not more. With an AC of 35 the melee combatants needed a natural 20 to hit her. Due to silence the spellcasters were almost not capable to cast and when they were the SR of the lamia matriarch and her more than good saves were more than a match. The whole encounter was ugly. Finally the PC fled the scene leaving Xanesha without a Skinsaw Cult to kill for her.
What is she going to do now? Wait for the heroes to gain some levels and make the fight more fun? What have you experienced in this encounter? Did anyone defeated the snake woman?
I guess first off, I like to take situations like this and talk about how the PCs could have used better tactics or at least learn from the situation. Help them brainstorm how they could have overcome the issues.
The first that you mention was the insanely high AC of this opponent. How could the PCs have gotten past this?
- True Strike - This option means you would only be hitting once every other round, but on those strikes you would be going against an AC 15 (effectively).
- Aid Other Action - This allows one PC who has little to no chance of hitting the opponent to instead make a strike using only their BAB against AC 10, if successful their friend who they are assisting gets a +2 to hit with their next attack.
I am sure your players are very creative and can come up with more as well. Do the same thing with either getting rid of silence (did she cast it on a stone? Toss it down the tower... you'll never hear it hit bottom... lol).
Anyway, more on point to your question, they PCs have still stopped the Skinsaw Murders. She will likely flee the area (perhaps to the fort that the PCs will visit in their next adventure), so as to not give them a chance to come up with a better plan to use against her. But they definately need to have a chance to face off against her again at some later point... in fact, if you are putting a fair amount of time in between each of the adventures you could actually replace the next Lamia Matriarch with this one all together.
Sean Mahoney
A few ways for the party to increase their chances of success:
-Buff spells (potions, wands) start becoming necessary against BBEGs and other "key" fights once the PCs hit middle levels (5th-12th); if the front-line fighters don't have aid, bull's strength, and divine favor (easily accomplished with potions/wands if spellcasters don't want to use up spells), then they are handicapping themselves by at least +4 on attack rolls, +3 on damage rolls, and 1d8+3 temporary hp
-Touch attacks (ranged-touch spells, etc.) are great equalizers against most high-AC opponents; hindrance attacks (grapple, trip) can also reduce AC and provide rogues sneak attack opportunities
-Conjuration (creation) spells such as Melf's acid arrow have no saving throw OR spell resistance check
As far as Xanesha goes, you can always have her retreat and show up later in the AP.
Perhaps I should begin with the encounter in the Seven's Sawmill. They followed the clues and asked "What day do we have? Oathday, by chance?" I replied: "No, I don't think so. But I will check it." So I switched on my notebook and opened the file (Thanks EP Healy!) with the calender of Golarion. "Okay... It is Oathday 10 pm and you have to hurry to get to Kyver's Isle in time!" The gnome beguiler rolled a 4 to determine the amount of time needed for the gather information check to find the correct sawmill. But the ritual is long so they caught the whole cult upstairs murdering an innocent man. They buffed up and used silence to great effect! None of the 13 clerics could cast a single spell (Oh my, I wish there was a spell list of spells without verbal components). It took them three rounds to finish them off.
After an magical interview with Ironbriar they went to bed and on the next day shopping. Well equipped and healthy they entered the Shadow Clock as described above.
IIRC they had the following spells up when stepping next to the angel statue: magic circle against evil, bull's strength, barkskin, silence and the power of the feat protection devotion. Xanesha was ready for them, the demon circling around the tower. Some arrows hit the illusion and the PCs were allowed to perform a couple of saves. The beguiler and the duskblade wanted to cast a spell and so thy threw the stone with the silence effect on the southern edge of the platform creating an almost totaly silenced environment. Too late they realized that their enemy had silenced the area in the first place. Only three squares or something remained where the cleric could heal and the others could cast or activate wands and such. In fear of the spellcasting capabilities of the lamia matriarch they left the stone with silence where it was. Due to mirror image the beguiler aimed her last dispel magic on the area instead of a single creature and so only haste was dispeled.
So, yes. They could have used true strike a bit more often (they did so only once). Aid another was no option due to the lack of fly or similar spells and the position of Xanesha. I guess they made a tactical error and ruined all their good efforts. Anyway this encounter is really hard! CR 11 for a group of 6th level "heroes".
But I like the suggestion with Xanesha in the next adventure quite a bit! Thanks!
EDIT: Near the end of the encounter they discovered Xanesha's "low" touch AC. So, yes (again). That's perhaps the way to go. Orbs and such...
My player did not want to fight Xanesha up there. She apparently doesn't stay up there all the time (all those charmed young men, they aren't visiting her in the Clock Tower!) so they did a lot of sleuthing, found some of her victims, talked to locals, and set up an appropriate ambush. They also got some help from an NPC paladin of Sarenrae of about their level, and already had an NPC fighter/rogue of about their level so there were 7 of them.
I judge a fight too hard when the PCs show long-term "We don't want to do the next adventure, we feel inadequate" aftereffects. In my experience you can kill a game dead with too many of those, even if the PCs survive (this was the death of both SCAP games my husband's been involved with).
This one was still too hard, even with the better situation, surprise round, and NPC help. In the player's opinion his PCs could not have done it on their own. Most of the PCs were flatly unable to help: the beguiler, for example, does not have ignore-SR spells other than *glitterdust* (Xanesha made all her saves), and the fighters mostly could not hit her.
*True strike* might have been an option, but it was our observation that Xanesha could drop any PC in two rounds, so going toe-to-toe with her and only hitting once in every two rounds means a lot of dead PCs.
This is an encounter for highly optimized PCs using highly optimized tactics. If that's not what you have, it would be a good idea to tone it down.
Mary
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As a GM, I love encounters like this, (also such as Ellyrium, the goblin druid, etc.) not because I'm sadistic and I *want* to kill off the party, but I find too many players go into a fight *assuming* that they are preordained to win. Having a badass that actually makes them consider running away or having to try again another way is useful for a couple reasons:
1) Failure helps the players grow. Sure, you learn from success, but you learn *more* from failure.
2) It gives the players a proper sense of anxiety and risk, a proper wariness that makes an encounter exciting.
Of course, I am also the type of GM that tells my players up front before a campaign that just because a monster is there doesn't mean you *suppposed* to fight it. In fact, sometimes leaving something the hell alone is the *right* decision. Sometimes I don't want my players to kill something, or to even engage it.
For Xanesha, having read the encounter through a couple times, I honestly don't care if the players win the fight or not, because her death at that point is honestly irrelevant to the story, and in fact, her getting away might even allow for some great dramaticizing later on, with some of the later baddies having been properly warned of their presence. Maybe she gets sent after them again as punishment for failing to finish them off last time, but this time she doesn't get to pick her battle ground of a tall, unstable, treacherous-footing tower.
So, in summary, sometimes the story benefits more by the players actually *losing* a fight.
I am a bit curious how the OP's PCs managed to flee from the top of the tower without being killed by Xanesha. I agree that a survivable loss can be a great roleplaying opportunity, but that one did not look survivable to us. And we have not found TPK to be campaign-enhancing at all.
Mary
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I'm not sure how the OP's party handled it, but honestly, if a Lamia's going to lure me to the top of a tower, and then fly out at a distance to pelt me with spells, the first thing *I* would do is to duck back inside the tower for cover and make her come in after me if she really wants to get me. If she's flying, it's not like she's really going to be able to obstruct my movement back into the tower without risking the party actually getting melee swings on her.
But getting her into a confined space where her ability to fly isn't so much of an advantage is one thing, but killing her line of effect to the party is the main thing.
Of course, you also have to assume she's not completely stupid either, so it's not like she'll blindly fly in after them. That said, having been discovered, even if the party doesn't outright defeat her, the fact that her presence is no longer a secret, that the party can justifiably expect to scape and notify more powers to assist, she's left with the choice of following them to try and kill them off to silence them, or flee the area, if not the city, knowing the party's still out there - either one is basically a net-win for the party: fight on the party's terms, or face the anger and wrath of her boss for not finishing them off.
I am a bit curious how the OP's PCs managed to flee from the top of the tower without being killed by Xanesha. I agree that a survivable loss can be a great roleplaying opportunity, but that one did not look survivable to us. And we have not found TPK to be campaign-enhancing at all.
Mary
When the decision to flee (came suddenly) Xanesha was still fighting the party in melee. She still got 120 hp after all! The "heroes" from Sandpoint fled into the tower, the lamia matriarch trying to burn them to dust with her scorching ray spells.
She didn't follow them, of course. Rather being trapped inside she waited downstairs outside of the Shadow Clock. What did she got to lose? Her cult of killers was pretty sure gone as were her minions in the builing. She didn't want to engage the party in a fair fight, so when they ran out of the tower she threw ray after ray at them through the gloomy atmosphere of the Shadow. Burnt and humiliated they fled the darkness under the Irespan for the light of the rest of Magnimar. (To be honest I didn't try too hard to kill them on this run)Perhaps they have learned their part in this encounter, I really really hope so! :)
EDIT: What would you say: Does Xanesha leaves the gruesome list behind? Will Lord-Mayor Grobaras reward the PCs with 6,000 even if they ended the murders but didn't reveal the plot to kill himself?
What would you say: Does Xanesha leaves the gruesome list behind? Will Lord-Mayor Grobaras reward the PCs with 6,000 even if they ended the murders but didn't reveal the plot to kill himself?
Whether or not Xanesha leaves the list is your call. However, if the PCs don't get, I'd say Grobaras rewards them each with 1,000 gp. He doesn't know that his greedy ass is on the line, so he won't shell out the bigger gp reward.
Most of the PCs were flatly unable to help: the beguiler, for example, does not have ignore-SR spells other than *glitterdust* (Xanesha made all her saves), and the fighters mostly could not hit her.
Well, technically Vertigo is a no-SR spell, but with Xanesha's high will save, it's probably not going to stick.
That said, Dispel Magic is on the beguiler's spell list. A couple of targeted dispels can help even the odds.
From the above example, it seems that the thing that tripped the party up the most was the stone affected by Silence. Someone probably should have taken an action to throw the thing completely off the tower
Both of my groups will be running into Xanesha during their next sessions -- or actually, they won't, because I'm switching her with Lucrecia, her sister from Hook Mountain.
They are the same CR, but Lucrecia doesn't fly, doesn't have silence or haste, doesn't have the mask of turning-to-stone, and does less melee damage. So, I figure swapping the sisters' locations is an easy way to make the encounter a little easier without having to stat up anything or do much work.
And, when they meet Xanesha later in Hook Mountain, she'll be more of a challenge to higher-level characters than her sister. Her ability to fly will give the ogres of the fort an air force of sorts, should the characters try a "flying artillery platform" approach to storming the keep.
I am going to give Lucrecia a pair of slippers of spider climbing, to explain how she gets in and out of the tower. But that's the only tweak I'll make, I think.
Both of my groups will be running into Xanesha during their next sessions -- or actually, they won't, because I'm switching her with Lucrecia, her sister from Hook Mountain.
They are the same CR, but Lucrecia doesn't fly, doesn't have silence or haste, doesn't have the mask of turning-to-stone, and does less melee damage. So, I figure swapping the sisters' locations is an easy way to make the encounter a little easier without having to stat up anything or do much work.
That's a really good idea! I wish I'd seen it before I ran this....My PCs had an awful time with Xanesha and then killed Lucrezia before she got to take a single action. The other way around would have been much better.
Thanks for the suggestion. If I run Runelords again I will definitely use it.
Mary
I second the idea about using Lucrezia as being cool, but Lucrezia still has shield and mage armor on her spell lists. Putting that to onse side for a moment, I think it might be a thematically interesting fight to have Lucrezia cast Obscuring Mist just prior to the PC's reaching the top of the tower (since she does have access to cleric spell lists.)
I'll be honest, after reading all of this I'm still going to use Xanesha against my party. They have some decent ranged combat skills, a cleric of Desna with the Travel domain for fly, and have been fairly resourceful about overcoming obstacles. Besides, I want to give them a challenge. Not only that, they should be more worried about the half-orc's class-leveled orog brother than about Xanesha... >:-]
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First, I'm really glad I came across this post. Tonight my party faces off against Xanesha and I was struggling with how they would cope with their utter deaths. This advice is excellent (I was already going to nix the fly and silence, but this works excellent).
Oh my, I wish there was a spell list of spells without verbal components.
Indeed. A Dungeon Magazine article a while back (Power Word: Spell) had a list of the spells without somatic components, and my wife made a list of spells without spell resistance or that did not allow a saving throw, but none without verbal components!
-DM Jeff
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The Fly and Silence aren't so bad (the silence doesn't affect the whole rooftop, and if anyone is smart they can detect magic, find the piece of wood it was cast on, and throw it off). And the Fly really really adds to the flavor of the combat.
If you're going to drop spells, drop the Divine Favor and Haste especially, the Charm Person too (or at least only use Charm Person once)
This is by far our most memorable and challenging encounter, and we could not have survived it without action points. Having turned Ironbriar and his murderers over to the authorities, we decided to go after Xanesha immediately so that news of Ironbriar's defeat did not reach her ears. Thus, bruised and battered, we found ourselves on top of the roof about an hour before dawn. We were six 6th-level characters.
The first PC to "see" her was Sandoz, our warlock, who also saw through her illusion. She turned him to stone while floating calmly out of reach.
I unravelled many of her spells with dispel magic, but she just laughed and started buffing herself again.
Our monk took a flying leap through the air to try and grapple her (no, he could not fly and did not have feather fall, so we're not really sure why he did this), but she critically hit him with her AoO. Our scout had to catch him and pull him back onto the roof so that our cleric could heal him. Our fighter unlimbered his heavy crossbow.
As the scout and the cleric healed the monk, I used a scroll to cast fly on the fighter. Xanesha then shut us all down with silence.
As the fighter went toe-to-toe with her, we toppled the angel on her, shot arrows at her, and ran around trying to find a place where we could cast spells. She then dismissed the silence to taunt us.
That was when the warlock recovered and hit her with his eldritch blast (go touch attack!). This really turned the tide, as we struggled to keep both the fighter and the warlock alive. According to the DM, she would have escaped via dimension door after the fighter buried his axe in her (critical hit) had the warlock not blasted her twice with his last action point. It was an awesome fight, though we went way past when we normally end sessions.
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I had originally posted this in a post over in the General Section, but only because I couldn't seem to get the link offered to this thread working.
The following is a list of MOST of the non-verbal spells in the Player's Handbook & Spell Compendium, cause even I might have missed some.
PLAYERS HB: gaseous form, hide from animals (druid, ranger), hypnotic pattern (wizard/sorcerer), mislead, rainbow pattern (wizard/sorcerer)
SPELL COMPENDIUM: accelerated movement, aiming at the target, air breathing, amorphous form, amplify, animate breath, breath flare, breath weapon admixture, breath weapon substitution, buoyant lifting, corpse candle, desiccating bubble, dispelling breath, distract, dragonskin, dream sight, enervating breath, ethereal breath, hide from dragons, hunter’s mercy (ranger), ice knife, imperious glare, joyful noise, know opponent, launch item, mesmerizing glare, naturewatch, rebuking breath, silent portal, stalking brand, sticky fingers, stunning breath, greater stunning breath, telepathic aura, wings of the sea
There are enough spells in the Spell Compendium to easily get around Silence. Assuming, the players don't just huck the magick'd object to begin with. Heck, launch item is a cantrip for sorcerers & wizards which'll do just that!
a
Both of my groups will be running into Xanesha during their next sessions -- or actually, they won't, because I'm switching her with Lucrecia, her sister from Hook Mountain.
They are the same CR, but Lucrecia doesn't fly, doesn't have silence or haste, doesn't have the mask of turning-to-stone, and does less melee damage. So, I figure swapping the sisters' locations is an easy way to make the encounter a little easier without having to stat up anything or do much work.
And, when they meet Xanesha later in Hook Mountain, she'll be more of a challenge to higher-level characters than her sister. Her ability to fly will give the ogres of the fort an air force of sorts, should the characters try a "flying artillery platform" approach to storming the keep.
I am going to give Lucrecia a pair of slippers of spider climbing, to explain how she gets in and out of the tower. But that's the only tweak I'll make, I think.
I have this fight to run tomorrow, and Xanesha just looks too much like "splatterfest" to me. I can't justify it, even as a learning experience.
I am going to take Jason's suggestion quoted above...
Here's my question to ANYBODY out there more familiar with the rules than I am. If I gave her Slippers of Spider Climb, am I correct in assuming they found only function in her human/half-elf form?
Dumb question probably, but I am a little rusty on alternate forms / shapeshifting rules.. and the MM doesn't illuminate anything about what happens to items that require certain equipment 'slots' like footgear when the new form doesn't use it.
I think it would be kinda cool if she could slither around the outside of the tower, but I don't want to bust the rules to do it.
Thanks in advance for any help!
the survivors are regrouping and planning to go up the tower after her again. (My players have actually never beaten any of the "bosses". Elyrium still plots under sandpoint after driving off the party. The druid goblin is rebuilding his tribe for revenge on Sandpoint and the Barghest under Thistletop was never encountered.
Thats rough - at the end of every adventure they get the butts handed to them.
The Non-Dramatic Sweep.
The Player's in my party: 6th Lvl (Wizard, Barbarian, Sorceror, Favored Soul\Rogue) and their Bard Cohort, swept Xanesha, promptly. The Barbarian initially got thrashed by the invisible lamia matriarch, but came back with rage/heroism/bull's strength to deliver significant hits with his falchion. The wizard and the sorceror let loose scorching rays (one ray crit'ed) through the silence with the bard's countersong.
So after a round a half she was down to 38 hp, she flew out for the flying advantage. But fell soon after with a magic missile from the mage and another scorching ray from the sorceror.
At which point she promptly fell down the rubble strewn base where a crowd of dirty shadows dwellers, emerged to gawk in silence and cheer on the heroes when they emerged victorious and announced by their over excited bard follower.
Maybe not, but it was a spur of the moment decision, when the party realized they were silenced. I decided that if countersong worked against audial magic, than it could attempt to pierce the silence spell.
I ran this last weekend. We have three PCs so they are a bit higher level (7th) than a typical group would be. They also suspected that the tower was a trap. So they bought some potions of flying and avoided the lower levels altogether by going through the top. They caught Xanesha off guard, but it was still a very tough fight. One PCs was done, when she was brought under 20hp. I think I could have dropped another PC by staying in, but I played it by the book.
She fled, and now I can bring her back in Hook Mnt in all her buffed glory.
Xanesha is likely to be the final encounter of my Monday night session. Since I am taking her lethality seriously (on account of this great thread), I'm posting my understanding of Xanesha's "Before Combat" actions and asking my fellow GMs to please comment if I am missing anything.
Xanesha casts seven before combat spells in two "sets."
Set One (triggers when faceless stalkers drop a bell)
Round 1 She hears bell, she casts fly
Round 2 She casts mage armor
Round 3 She casts shield
Set Two (triggers if Xanesha hears PCs approaching her lair)
Round 1 She casts mirror image
Round 2 She casts haste
Round 3 She casts invisibility
Round 4 She casts silence
Looking at the above, it seems that there's a strong likelihood that Xanesha will not get to complete her preparations--either by a trigger not activating or by the PCs rushing the rooftop and not allowing the minimum seven rounds it would take for her to attain 100% BBEG.
Comments? Experience?
Thanks!!!
Xanesha is likely to be the final encounter of my Monday night session. Since I am taking her lethality seriously (on account of this great thread), I'm posting my understanding of Xanesha's "Before Combat" actions and asking my fellow GMs to please comment if I am missing anything.
Comments? Experience?
Thanks!!!
The first thing that jumped out at me was if Xanesha hears the bell being dropped... the party still has to actually fight their way through the Faceless Stalkers in order to get to her.. which would seem to me to allow her all the time in the world she needs to cast those spells.
I ended up swapping Lucretia (with a pair of Slippers of Spider Climb) for Xanesha, and I got a tough fight that beat the party up and provided a good challenge, but no one died.
If I had used Xanesha, no one in the party would have hit her on much more than a natural 20, and even with Lucretia, it was hard to hit her.
You almost have to suspend some tactical disbelief on Xanesha's part in this fight. If this was reality, she'd probably hear the fighting with the Faceless Stalkers on the floor below and come and join them- thus really creaming the party but good. But obviously that isn't even a remotely entertaining challenge for the party.
I just caution you against going too simulationist with this finale. I'd bend a little in order to tell a good story, otherwise it might be the end of the story instead.
My party is a few weeks away from this encounter, so this advice is of great use to me.
Especially seeing as they have had all the tactical ability of a bunch of Milk maids so far in the Adventure Path. Seven characters in the group does not make the encounters easier, it is more like herding cats than guiding a group.
One thing that is important to remember for those of you who have had their parties defeated and forced to flee. The battle takes place in a shadowy area in the middle of a crowded area of a city. Showy spells are going to be seen by countless people in the area and even further afield. This means that even if she defeats the heroes, the DM could rule that her presence here is under mined and she will have to relocate. The authorities are not going to ignore a big flying snake woman blasting away at the tower and raining debris on the city. even if it is in the scummy part of the town and the falling masonry only crushed some worthless dregs of society.
...I ended up swapping Lucretia (with a pair of Slippers of Spider Climb) for Xanesha...
Very interesting sugestion!
What type of party do you have (social, combat heavy, magic)? Xanesha would seem quite at home with the Kreeg and cie.
Very interesting sugestion!What type of party do you have (social, combat heavy, magic)? Xanesha would seem quite at home with the Kreeg and cie.
To give credit where credit is due, that was an idea I mined out of this thread. If you read from the beginning, someone else posted it and I stole it from them. And it worked well. They were low on hit points and pretty scared and desperate before they killed her.. which for me, is all I expect as a GM. The threat was real.
It's a more combat heavy party to be honest.
(2) 6th lvl fighters
(1) 6th lvl Druid using the shapeshifter variant from PHB II
(1) 6th lvl Cleric
(1) 4th level Rogue / 2nd level magic user
I couldn't get anybody to play a magic user or a sorceror. It was like trying to get a cat to go in a toilet- they spread eagled and clawed every step of the way. The Rogue started multi-classing because he saw that the AP gave out a fair number of wands and scrolls.
This is very indicative of the changes that were necessary in the Pathfinder RPG. I have two groups. The one that is in Chapter 3 is a straight up 3.5 group. The playtest group is in Chapter One. The playtest group is loving the new cleric and wizard changes.
As far as the true Xanesha goes.. I reckon by the time they get to her, they'll be able to handle her true threat level a lot more realistically.
... I couldn't get anybody to play a magic user or a sorceror...
I had the same situation in a previous party. The rogue took up "Use Magical Device" and I included a +5 bonus magic-item (Elf-Hand Necklass, like boots of elvenkind but for Use Magical Device, made by Kobolds with an actual elf's hand) in a treasure. The no M.-U. dynamic was intetresting.
My RotRL party is fairly Combat and Lore Heavy (currently in the catacombs):
2nd lvl Dwarven(M) Cloistered Cleric of Irori (considering the mystic theurge career)
2nd lvl Varisan(F) Bard
2nd lvl Shoanti(F) Axe-Clan Barbarian
1st lvl Barbarian/1st lvl Fighter Half-Orc (F)
I gave a 32 point built and use Action Points witch might explain their going threw the encouters with little opposition so far (but the Action Points haven't made any serious difference in the encounters).
I hope for a change of pace with the Quasit but they geared up with Cold Iron after the Cleric researched it following Tsuto's mention of it, so... Can't blame them for being smart.
I plan to use Lucrezia with a ring of feather fall for escape
She doesn't need the slippers since she can climb the stairs when in human form .
I think the slippers are for running around on the outside of the tower.
My group actually managed to beat her, even though they generally needed to get around 19-20 to hit her. They got a lot of lucky hits on her and had the healing they needed to keep themselves up and fighting when she was meleeing with them. It was a long fight, and they used up all their resources.
The only difference between the stats and Xanesha as I ran her was that I accidentally missed out the spell resistance - I completely missed it in the stat block. That would have made a difference once she leaves the tower again to throw spells, but by the time I noticed, it was too late :-p. I did bump up her AC as it should have been with the buff spells.
I'd intended to run her as written, as my party have chewed through everything with ease so far.
I have a barbarian in my party that really hits hard when he lands an attack, and three party members capable of casting heals (with one also having restoration spells prepared). I also have 6 players, all of whom are experienced D&D players. :-p. Nearly got a player death at the start, as the druid wildshaped into an eagle to meet her before she entered the tower. She used her mask on him, but he passed his fort save to avoid being petrified. The cleric managed to figure out when the silence was coming from and threw the wooden plank off of the tower, allowing all the casters to use their spells too.
My group consists of:
Dwarf barbarian
Elven ranger (dual-wielder)
Human druid
Halfling rogue/wizard
Human cleric/sorceror
Human paladin (with a level of cleric)
My group seems to have gone for a multiclassing approach this time :-p. I was quite pleased with how it went, as I was looking for a good fight rather than a complete TPK
Yeah, this is a tough one. It's just as hard for the DM as it is for the party. Unless you want a TPK. But here are a few ideas to keep in mind if you don't want one.
First off: Don't let them get to the Shadow Tower without fully resting. Be sneaky, if they are using the ravens to find the Shadow Tower, have them lose the first few, suggest it's too dark to see. During the daytime, they can follow the bird and reach the place.
If they are using information from the uncharmed Ironbriar, then not only do they know how tough she is, but also give them a few ideas of how to fight her. Work together, she's a powerful spellcaster and a tough fighter, and so forth.
How to hit her:
AC 26 +Mage Armor (AC29), + Shield (AC33) + Haste (AC34). To effectively hit her you'd need a +19 to hit.
The hope is that your PC's are 6th or maybe 7th level, so at best you could hope for a +7BAB +4STR +1WF +1 Weapon = +14. So even rolling a 19 is a miss.
Option One: Teamwork. Flanking bonus +2, Charging bonus +2, Aid Other bonus +2. Now one Fighter could have up to +20 to hit, meaning a roll of 14 or better hits. Not prefect, but can be done. To set this up, use this kind of teamwork on the PC's when they're fighting the Skinsaw Cultist and make certain they know where the bonuses are coming from. The two fights are really close together and it will make the cultist fight more fun anyways.
Option Two: Touch attacks. Even with her insane AC, she stills has only a Touch AC of 17. You could Trip her, a little odd considering her snake body, but still, she'd lose 4 points of AC. Or grapple. To set this up, use a few touch attacks on the party fighter or cleric. Goblins can make use of this in the Glassworks fight or in Thistletop.
Option Three: Buffs. Once you've figured out a way to get past the Silence spell, the cleric is going to want to put the bless on, aid, whatever. Again, use the Skinsaw cultist to show the PC how this is done.
Option Four: Dispel Magic. Once you've gotten past the Silence spell, dispell her Buffs. Sure she can recast them, but it'll take time to get them back up. And if she's flying at the time, she might fall to the ground as well.
Fighting the flying ability:
Flying isn't as bad as some people make out, her tactics suggest that she loves melee. She doesn't start flying around and casting until taken down a bit. By then hopefully the party is doing alright.
Fighting the silence:
Option One: leave the area. She can follow and now you've got more spells and abilities. But then she can cast Silence again.
Option Two: Have a Bard in the party. Countersong doesn't effect Silence in the rules, but the 1st level spell Joyful Noise from Complete Adventurer does. Suggest to your bard way back in Burnt Offerings to consider taking Joyful Noise, or at least give them the ability to buy a scroll of it well before this fight happens. If they forget to use it, oh well, but I love seeing the Bard look good.
If you don't have a Bard in the party, try a scroll of Joyful Noise in a shop and let the party Rogue see it. You can do this as far back as in Burnt Offerings, maybe it belongs to Ameiko. The point is to get it in their hands. A successful Use Magic Device roll can get it to work.
Joyful Noise lasts as long as the caster concentrates. Make certain the party wizard understands the beauty of Dispell Magic by this point. Give Justice Ironbriar two scrolls of Dispell magic and use one on the party. It'll make the Ironbriar fight a bit more difficult, but not super hard.
Option Three: throw out the timber. This doesn't seem a good option to me, since most likely your PC's will never know where the silence is coming from.
Option Four: spells without words. There aren't many spells without words in the player's, so ease the spells you think the party could use for this fight from other sources slowly as you go, drop a scroll of Ice Knife into the game somewhere.
Handling the Flesh to Stone: Remember that she goes for someone near the edge, not the best target. So don't use this spell the best way you could, don't go for the Rogue or Wizard. This is Fort save DC 15. If you use it on a fighter or cleric they have a fair chance of saving from this spell. If you can, always shoot for a Cleric. First off, at the begining of the combat, he can't cast spells, so if you take him out of the fight for 10 rounds, it isn't the end of the world. Just make sure to show how close he is to the edge so that the rest of the party can think about how best to protect their healer.
Handling Spell Resistance:
Spell Penetration: Even if you get past the silence spell, you have to beat that SR. With Spell Penetration, a 6th level caster has a 50% chance of pulling this off. Considering the amount of SR in the game and adventure, this is a really good feat to consider for any spell caster. Play up the Sinspawn's SR in the first adventure as much as you can, make your spell caster feel useless and frustrated in those fights, where the party has a good chance of winning anyways so that he might take the Feat and finally feel good about having it now.
No Resistance: Find spells that beat SR naturally like acid arrow and use them against the party in earlier fights. Anything to keep these spells in the party wizards head.
There are other ideas, and if I can think of them, I'll try to post them up.
I think the slippers are for running around on the outside of the tower.I plan to use Lucrezia with a ring of feather fall for escape
She doesn't need the slippers since she can climb the stairs when in human form .
Jeremy is correct. Either works.
"You say toe-may-toe, I say ta-mah-toe"
A shout out to Mike Smith! That was a good post...
Hi, Mike. Nice to meet you.
I really like your suggestions here. You don't make the fight with Xanesha easier, you make it fairer by encouraging the players towards developing characters that play to her relative weaknesses.
I liked it too.. I don't want to knock it.. But beyond suggesting rest before the encounter (which my players never question, because if I'm suggesting they rest they can read between the lines).. I'd be leading them by the hand.
It's a good tactical manual to demonstrate how she could be defeated at a certain level, but as a GM I think I'd be still doing too much deus ex machina in order to orchestrate it on the player's behalf. Changing some tactics on the monster's part I have no problem with.. But when I'm pushing certain Feats, hinting at spells in a Non-SRD sourcebook, and otherwise grooming the characters to survive the enounter it is still essentially making Xanesha easier. Even considering Mike's ideas, I'd still rather just yank the encounter and bring it back later then stage the fight over time.
Not everyone may agree, and I respect that.
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Well, I was expecting a big 'ol TPK of my own when my group went against Xenesha. I even had the players bemoaning their probable deaths.
Then the players proceeded to gain a combined total of 6 criticals in two rounds - mostly from the Paladin (with her dwarven waraxe) and the two multiclass rogues. I was floored. And so was Xenesha: she was chopped cleanly in half trying to fly away.
Well, I was expecting a big 'ol TPK of my own when my group went against Xenesha. I even had the players bemoaning their probable deaths.
Then the players proceeded to gain a combined total of 6 criticals in two rounds - mostly from the Paladin (with her dwarven waraxe) and the two multiclass rogues. I was floored. And so was Xenesha: she was chopped cleanly in half trying to fly away.
Ah.. that was the fate of Malfeshknor in my game. I try not to have a vested interest in the outcome but that fight was kind of a let down. I was willing to let them have an AOO so he could use a spell like abilities and Critical-Bam!
My players chased off Xanesha tonight---but not before she toppled the paladin off the tower to his death for 70 points of damage.
Sometimes, GMing is so fun. :)
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With some prep work - knowing that they were going to be facing a lamia matriarch, they bought a CL 10 dispel magic scroll, and with a corsair's eyepatch, they had no troble spotting Xanesha when they reached the tower top. The scroll flattened all her buffs, and then the group surrounded her before she could start putting them back up again. With readied actions to disrupt spellcasting from the rogue, the swashbuckler/sorcerer and the cleric/barbarian proceeded to put a serious hurt on her. The final blow was a bull's strength'd, raging, Destruction-domain-sponsored smite that critted - total of 48 points of damage in a single shot, more than enough to put her down for good.
I really love the way these combats are playing out, thanks for sharing them. In the playtest I'm affraid everyone escaped, but there was at least one player telling me he's going to run a rogue with vertigo next time.
I think I'll have to make the next baddie a bit tougher to make it more fair>)
Oh hang on, did I already do that?
Mnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnar.
Rich
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I am running Xanesha in all her glory next week. I think my group can at least make it interesting. I have given them lots of info on her through Ironbriar's Journal and through a knowledge check in the 40's for Lamia Matriarchs. They know they are in for a hellish fight and are taking the appropriate measures to strengthen themselves for it. I am really looking forward to it.
The cliffhanger we ended on last night last occurred as they climbed the stairs directly above the bronze bells to find the faceless stalkers there disguised as Lord Mayor Grobraras and another Chief Justice of my own design. They completely bought it, even after facing the other two stalkers in the forms of Aldern and Iesha. I left as they were arguing about which one of them figured out first that the Lord Mayor and his Justices were behind all of the murders all along. I can't wait to see their faces when an elastic arm from a stalker, disguised as the fat arm of Grobraras, reaches out 10' and slashes them.
Thank you, Mr. Pett for a wonderful adventure. My players and I have really enjoyed it. They have commented that they really feel caught up in a tense story of intrigue and mystery.
Yikes! I guess I'll chime in, as my players encountered Xanesha last night. I was expecting a tough battle, consuming all of their resources. I even lowered a few stats, notably the SR and AC, to make it more feasible.
Of course I should have anticipated the Druid flying in solo at the roof to check it out. =P Xanesha spots him coming and goes invisible, waiting and watching. When he transforms, she sees an opportunity to Charm him. It fails, and she is revealed. Druid summons a constrictor snake which fails to do anything meaningful. Xanesha uses her petrify power, it fails. The druid is on a roll and gets cocky. Casts an enhancement on himself and shifts to predator (cat) form to do melee against this obvious caster. Oops.
Meanwhile, the group below knows he's in trouble, hearing him call out from above. Climbing will take too long, so they burst through the door and encounter the Scarecrow. *gulp* It starts mowing through them, taking no damage from the Wizard's spells or the Cleric's puny hits. The fighter lays in some damage, but with DR it's gonna take a while.
Druid goes in for the kill and discovers that oh crap, this chick is brutal with her spear. He rethinks his strategy and flies down the inside of the tower, taking an AoO that drops him to 1 hp. As he descends, he looks up and realizes that Xanesha is flying down after him.
The group meets up at the bottom floor and decides that retreat is a great option, as they watch Xanesha multiply into five forms. They stone shape the door behind them so the Scarecrow can't chase them down.
No deaths, but it would have been a certain TPK had they stayed to prove their bravado. I had the sinking feeling in my stomach when they said they were going in the front door. It was really their only option to help, but ouch, it was gonna be painful. Funny thing, they know I'm eager to play some 4e, but a TPK wasn't my planned method of conversion.
Human Warlock 6
Wood Elf Ranger 6 (archer)
Human Cleric 6 (gorum)
Half-Orc Dragon Shaman 6 (gold)
Human Fighter 3/Rogue 3
So, my players annihilated the skinsaw cult at the sawmill, killed Ironbriar before getting any information, but never got into the bottom level... Subsequently, 3 cultists escaped to the clocktower and warned Xaneesha- then she killed them for their failure... The PC's let loose the messenger ravens, which fly straight to the tower as well, followed by the rangers eagle companion... Eagle comes back and explains where the tower is (speak with animals). PC's think "Well we know where the secret hideout is, lets take a week to buy stuff, make items, etc... They get to the tower, which now has a second bell rigged to fall, along with 3 dead cultists... They take out the golem before he can escape, start ascending the stairs... They quickly figure out the dangerous nature of the stairs (warlock flying up the middle to avoid stairs) and are promptly assaulted by the first bell, which (rolled randomly) hits the warlock, but doesn't take her down. Pc's start to freak out, moving double time up the stairs and utilising grappling hooks and ropes to avoid large gaps. Second bell falls and hits the other 4 PC's. Ranger and Dragon Shaman fail their reflex saves and fall to the bottom, reducing the Shaman to 3hp, the Ranger to -17. Thanks for coming. The three cultists are thrown down with little effect. They get to the bell room, take out the Faceless Stalkers (bullrushing one into a hole to fall to his death) and proceed up the outside to the final battle. Xaneesha is well prepared. As the PC's are worrying about the succubus flying around the tower, Xaneesha (invisible) uses her medusa mask on the warlock (still flying) who fails her save and falls to her shattery death. She gets the highest initiative and full attacks the Shaman (who had healed up to nearly full), dropping him to -7. The party grab his body and flee, Xaneesha laughing all the while, planning their demise for later. (I would have had her chase them down the tower, but I wanted to avoid a TPK)
After a raise dead on the Ranger (and a new human fighter wielding a fullblade to replace the warlock), the other party members level up to 7, the ranger having enough stored xp to keep him at 6th even after the raise dead. We then convert players to new Pathfinder rules.
Xaneesha has charmed 2 Gargoyle Ftr3's which spot the PC's coming and wait for them to start climbing the inside of the tower before swooping in for death dealing. They are killed reasonably quickly, and the PC's get to the top to find Xaneesha waiting for them, Spear in hand, relishing the thought of reducing the PC's to perforated corpses... The new fighter wins the initiative, and charges in with a power attack that becomes a critical power attack and takes off 75 hit points! Xaneesha then drops him to -3hp with a full attack. The shaman gets off a breath weapon, the ranger peppers her with arrows, the ftr/rog manages a decent sneak attack, the cleric heals the fighter. Fighter full attacks xaneesha, taking another 30 or so hp from her. Xaneesha flys outside (nobody scored an AoO on her) and casts scorching ray on the ranger. Between the ranger and the fighter (now using his +4 strength bow) they kill her before she can dimension door the hell outta there...
The fighter also took out Jaagrath in 2 rounds, in the next adventure... Stupid +1 Keen Fullblade...