As I have done before, I will post draft versions of the rules for Round 4 to get your input. I know that given that it is Christmas we might not get the normal discussion. Sorry I didnt post these sooner but like everyone else I too was busy with my holiday preparation.
Clark
RPG Superstar Round Four Assignment: Design Three Thematically-Linked Monsters
For this round, contestants must create three thematically-linked monsters as might appear in a published monster supplement or as new monsters in the appendix of a published adventure. The submission consists of two parts with the second containing sub-parts. Each has its own word limit:
Part 1: The name of your submission, followed by any introductory text you may choose to include (this is optional) and a section with the mandatory heading “Thematic Link” followed by a brief explanation of the thematic link for the three monsters submitted. You have a total of XXX words for this part—the title, introductory text (if any) and the thematic link explanation. All of the content for Part 1 must be provided before Part 2 (the monsters). You may not put content from Part 1 after the monster stat blocks for Part 2. The point of this part is to show us the thematic link and introduce us to your monsters in whatever way you see fit but within the word limit. The name of your submission is up to you. It does not have to be simply the names of your three monsters.
Part 2: The three monsters entries. You must present new-monster-style stat blocks for each of the three monsters you are creating for this round. Like last round, the stat blocks themselves and the content therein have no word limit. New special abilities, feats, powers, etc., are considered part of the stat block entry and do not have a word limit, so long as they are contained within the appropriate portion of the stat block. Contestants are free to create new powers, abilities, etc., for their monsters, so long as those powers, abilities, etc., are derived from the SRD (which includes any content found at www.d20srd.org). You are NOT required to show your math. Following each monster stat block you must include descriptive text for the monster as would be found in a published book of monsters or a monster from the appendix of an adventure. This portion of Part 2—the descriptive text portion for each monster—has a word limit of XXX words for each monster (for a total of XXX words for all three monsters combined). Though the stat block portion has no word limit, you may NOT use the Tactics section or other sections of the stat block as a way to avoid the word limit of the descriptive text portion of Part 2.
A submission will have the following general outline:
[Part 1]
Title of Submission
Introductory text—optional
Thematic Link: Description of thematic link.
[end Part 1: total XXX words for all of Part 1]
[Part 2a: Monster 1]
New-monster-style stat block—no word limit
Descriptive text—total XXX words for this part of Part 2a
[end Part 2a]
[Part 2b: Monster 2]
New-monster-style stat block—no word limit
Descriptive text—total XXX words for this part of Part 2b
[end Part 2b]
[Part 2c: Monster 3]
New-monster-style stat block—no word limit
Descriptive text—total XXX words for this part of Part 2c
[end Part 2c]
[note: the fact that I used "XXX" for all the word limits does not imply that these numbers are all the same or even that they have three digits; "XXX" simply indicated redacted content --Clark]
Entries must be submitted through the submission tool at paizo.com/rpgsuperstar and must be received by noon Pacific time on December XXX, 2007. Fan voting for Round Four begins December XXX, and ends December XXX. The six (6) contestants advancing to Round Five will be announced December XX.
All prior contest rules apply, except as modified above. Full contest rules can be found here. The RPG Superstar FAQ can be found here.
The following monster style stat block is derived from recent Paizo products and is provided for use by the contestants, but is not mandatory:
New-monster-style Stat Block Format
[snip, full stat block with formatting provided]
Here is some of the proposed FAQ:
Round Four Rules FAQ
What is a “thematically linked”?
The training wheels are off. You know what that means—three monsters that go together for some reason. You tell us why they are thematically linked and be prepared to be judged for that choice.
Can you give us some examples of what “thematically linked” monsters are?
Nope. You are the Top 8 for RPG Superstar. You can figure it out.
Can we have a good-aligned monster?
Sure. That’s up to you. When we say “monster,” we mean “creature that could be found in a published monster book.” Angels, devils, red dragons, gold dragons—they are all fair game.
What content can we use?
You are limited to using content (1) from the d20 SRD (see d20SRD.org), (2) content that is in the public domain (such as mythological references, etc.), or (3) content from earlier rounds of this contest whether you created it or not. You may NOT use any content owned by Paizo Publishing, Wizards of the Coast, TSR, or any other company, or content from any source other than the three sources mentioned above. In this round you can create new content derived from those sources.
Can we create new abilities, feats, spells, powers, items, etc., for our monsters?
Oh yeah! The gloves are off. Create whatever you want, so long as it is derived from the SRD (as found at www.d20srd.org).
Do we have to use that new-monster-style stat block format?
Well, we want monsters that would appear in a published book of monsters, so it is probably a good idea to follow that format. But if you have a compelling reason to change things up, be our guest.
Is there really no word count restriction on stat blocks, even for new abilities or powers?
That’s right. No limit to the content in the stat block portion of the entry. Of course, be ready to be judged on what you do.
Do we have to “show our math” this round?
No need to show your math this round. We had enough math last round. That said, we are sure that the fans at home will be checking to make sure you did things right. And they can ding you for it if you don’t.
Can I “borrow” words from the word limit from one monster’s descriptive text and use it for another monster? For instance, one of my monsters is pretty basic and I can describe it in 300 words. Can I use the “left over” 300 words from that monster to have 900 words for the primary monster?
No. Each monster has a word limit for its descriptive text portion of 600 words. If you don’t use it all for one, you can’t “lend” those unused words to one of your other monsters.
Please submit any questions or comments here that you want. I welcome your input. Anyone's input. You dont have to be in the contest to ask questions and make suggestions.
Also please be advised for any top 16 who may be reading this, all of it is subject to change. :)
Oops! I can see I already forgot to cut and paste an important part of the rules:
Each of your monsters must be CR 20 or less.
And yes, this means that each submission is going to be pretty large. We have already tested the boards to make sure they accomodate big submissions by cutting and pasting one of the wordier villain entries three times into one submission and attempted to post it to the message boards in the judges chambers. It appeared to work. :) Fingers crossed...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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This is exactly what I was hoping for, right there in the very first FAQ:
What is a “thematically linked”?
The training wheels are off. You know what that means—three monsters that go together for some reason. You tell us why they are thematically linked and be prepared to be judged for that choice.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.
I told one of my friends the other day that the two-week window between 'Round Begins' and 'Submission Due' for this round was probably not on accident - that a real Superstar would need every ounce of that time to get all the work done.
Guess I was right!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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What about a section referring to plot hooks or typical encounters at the end?
The country and villain rounds separated those parts out. At the moment the only place someone could put a unifying plot idea behind their monsters is at the beginning before we know what the monsters are about.
Good question!
My guess is that you'd want to build three distinct hooks for the three distinct monsters and place each of them after their respective monsters while looping back on earlier material.
Por Ejemplo:
I, Boomer, have created the completely unique, never-before-seen, non-SRD monsters "The Slaadi", of which there are three different types, differentiated by . . . color!
In my Part 1 big block, I talk about the race as a whole.
In my Part 2(a), I detail & discuss the "Red Slaadi", and give hooks at the end.
In my Part 2(b), I detail & discuss the "Blue Slaadi", and give new hooks while elaborating on the hooks begun in 2(a).
In my Part 2(c), I detail & discuss the "Green Slaadi", playing with the information from the previous two monsters and giving new hooks - like the mysterious "Grey Slaadi".
EDIT: oh, and then I lose the contest. BADLY, and DESERVEDLY.
Because no one is voting for the Slaadi.
What about a section referring to plot hooks or typical encounters at the end?
The country and villain rounds separated those parts out. At the moment the only place someone could put a unifying plot idea behind their monsters is at the beginning before we know what the monsters are about.
Cheers
Yes, that is a bit of a difficulty. It is one of the hurdles for this round. Good, tight, thematic design should fix that though.
I see the plot hooks, etc, part as being a part of the descriptive text of each monster--or perhaps it could be part of the Part 1 introductory text. Its up to each contestant.
The gloves are really off in this round.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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And yes, this means that each submission is going to be pretty large. We have already tested the boards to make sure they accomodate big submissions by cutting and pasting one of the wordier villain entries three times into one submission and attempted to post it to the message boards in the judges chambers. It appeared to work. :) Fingers crossed...
I wonder if perhaps a certain evil mutant horsey may have been the 'wordier' entry with its gonzo stat block... :)
Viva la gonzo!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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This is exactly what I was hoping for, right there in the very first FAQ:
What is a “thematically linked”?
The training wheels are off. You know what that means—three monsters that go together for some reason. You tell us why they are thematically linked and be prepared to be judged for that choice.
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.
I told one of my friends the other day that the two-week window between 'Round Begins' and 'Submission Due' for this round was probably not on accident - that a real Superstar would need every ounce of that time to get all the work done.
Guess I was right!
Glad you pointed that out. I had forgotten the longer time span and was preparing for a full-on freak-out this week/weekend to work on monsters if I make it through.
I can also tell that I am going to want to go over my linking premise, because the initial linking concept was pretty basic and I think I can make it richer. We shall see...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Oops! I can see I already forgot to cut and paste an important part of the rules:
Each of your monsters must be CR 20 or less.
But other than that, no stipulation on level range? So it could be three CR 1 monsters or three CR 20 monsters (in theory). Interesting...
Theme.
Theme.
Theme.
Think theme.
On the one hand it could be a goblin theme like in Pathfinder one--the new look goblin plus the goblin dog plus some other goblin thing. I dont remember. Or it could be a higher level combo like githzerai, yanki and mind flayers. That is a nice trio. Or even say gnolls and hyenas and some other type of monster that all go together.
Or you could go fire giant, hell hound and some other cool fire monster perhaps. (it goes without saying those have been created of course, i was using them as examples)
What this round is NOT for is NPCs or villains. Its just monsters. Not unique monsters. Just monsters.
Its up to you what the theme is. But you better have one.
But other than that, no stipulation on level range? So it could be three CR 1 monsters or three CR 20 monsters (in theory). Interesting...
Yep.
Unless between now and when the final rules are posted Erik and Wolfie decide to overrule me.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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What this round is NOT for is NPCs or villains. Its just monsters. Not unique monsters. Just monsters.Its up to you what the theme is. But you better have one.
Theme:
Two female monsters (one with high Int., one with high Cha.) live in a lair owned by a wacky Advanced Roper - then a male monster moves in and has to pretend that he's gay.
And each week they have hilarious adventures full of goofy misunderstandings!
I call it "Three's a Pair"
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What about a section referring to plot hooks or typical encounters at the end?
The country and villain rounds separated those parts out. At the moment the only place someone could put a unifying plot idea behind their monsters is at the beginning before we know what the monsters are about.
Cheers
Yes, that is a bit of a difficulty. It is one of the hurdles for this round. Good, tight, thematic design should fix that though.
I see the plot hooks, etc, part as being a part of the descriptive text of each monster--or perhaps it could be part of the Part 1 introductory text. Its up to each contestant.
The gloves are really off in this round.
This feels like the KILLER round. A bit like the magic item.
Gloves off, two weeks preparation and the results will be something that everyone can use in the very next game session.
Countries, villains, encounters and an outline are all more likely to require a bit of effort, but I could use a monkey goblin pretty much off the bat.
One thought - Clark you could get the 8 to submit a synopsis of the theme and monsters (behind the scenes) after week one, critique it on the quiet (like an editor would usually) and then see how they respond to advice etc before the round closes.
Telling someone they should have done this or that after the event isn't so useful, is it? It would be closer to reality.
Cheers
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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One thought - Clark you could get the 8 to submit a synopsis of the theme and monsters (behind the scenes) after week one, critique it on the quiet (like an editor would usually) and then see how they respond to advice etc before the round closes.Telling someone they should have done this or that after the event isn't so useful, is it? It would be closer to reality.
Cheers
. . . wow, that's a really good idea.
I call it "Three's a Pair"
Wow... I'd forgotten about the show you're parodying. Is that still on in syndication? Wow....
Now back to the thread.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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Clark, is there any reason that the word limit on each monster is hard and can't be spread amongst the three as needed? Not only does this seem to me that it will limit the amount of 'simple' monsters that are part of the theme (since who's going to waste words), but also, I imagine that you could have a short description on each individual monster, and then a section talking about them as a group, society, culture, etc. Unless there's a reason that the judges have which I'm not thinking of, I'd suggest a single word limit for the three monsters, to be divided up any way the contestants want.
Looks good to me, nothing to add.
On the one hand it could be a goblin theme like in Pathfinder one--the new look goblin plus the goblin dog plus some other goblin thing. I dont remember. Or it could be a higher level combo like githzerai, yanki and mind flayers. That is a nice trio. Or even say gnolls and hyenas and some other type of monster that all go together.Or you could go fire giant, hell hound and some other cool fire monster perhaps. (it goes without saying those have been created of course, i was using them as examples)
Of course, according to the FAQ they don't need examples of “thematically linked” monsters because they are the Top 8 for RPG Superstar. They can figure it out. :P
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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What this round is NOT for is NPCs or villains. Its just monsters. Not unique monsters. Just monsters.Its up to you what the theme is. But you better have one.
Theme:
Two female monsters (one with high Int., one with high Cha.) live in a lair owned by a wacky Advanced Roper - then a male monster moves in and has to pretend that he's gay.
And each week they have hilarious adventures full of goofy misunderstandings!
I call it "Three's a Pair"
ROTFLMAO
I heart Boomer. You rule, man!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Of course, according to the FAQ they don't need examples of “thematically linked” monsters because they are the Top 8 for RPG Superstar. They can figure it out. :P
On the one hand it could be a goblin theme like in Pathfinder one--the new look goblin plus the goblin dog plus some other goblin thing. I dont remember. Or it could be a higher level combo like githzerai, yanki and mind flayers. That is a nice trio. Or even say gnolls and hyenas and some other type of monster that all go together.Or you could go fire giant, hell hound and some other cool fire monster perhaps. (it goes without saying those have been created of course, i was using them as examples)
Hey, don't get snarky with the judges!
If in the immortal words of Dr. Evil they want to "throw us a frickin' bone," who are we to fuss them out over it! We take em where we can get em.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Theme.
Theme.
Theme.
Think theme.
On the one hand it could be a goblin theme like in Pathfinder one--the new look goblin plus the goblin dog plus some other goblin thing. I dont remember. Or it could be a higher level combo like githzerai, yanki and mind flayers. That is a nice trio. Or even say gnolls and hyenas and some other type of monster that all go together.
Or you could go fire giant, hell hound and some other cool fire monster perhaps. (it goes without saying those have been created of course, i was using them as examples)
What this round is NOT for is NPCs or villains. Its just monsters. Not unique monsters. Just monsters.
Its up to you what the theme is. But you better have one.
Those themes are pretty basic, so maybe I'm not as far off as I might have thought.
Okay 3 (and a half) questions:
1. Just to make sure, "not unique monsters" means don't create a tarrasque, demon lord, water horse, or similar nonesuch, where there is only one of it in the whole wide world (as opposed to don't be unique and creative in your entries, of course).
2. No NPCs would also suggest don't create things with class levels, but what about a new humanoid race (which is usually presented as a 1st level warrior of that race)?
3. If you have a creature concept that advances inherently within its concept, like say a barghest*, should you have both 'basic' and 'advanced' versions presented or is just listing the method of advancement sufficient?
3a. Would basic/advanced versions count as 2 monsters or 1?
* As opposed to an advanced version of a base monster with class levels (like the Troll Hunter from the Monster Manual) or a template (like the Lammasu Golden Protector from MM) or just using advancement by HD rules (like a Dread Wraith or Truly Horrid Umber Hulk).
What about templates?
I would like to see templates in this stage of the competition as well as regular monsters.
I dont see why a template couldnt also be one of your three monsters. I;ll check with the judges.
Those themes are pretty basic, so maybe I'm not as far off as I might have thought.
Okay 3 (and a half) questions:
1. Just to make sure, "not unique monsters" means don't create a tarrasque, demon lord, water horse, or similar nonesuch, where there is only one of it in the whole wide world (as opposed to don't be unique and creative in your entries, of course).
2. No NPCs would also suggest don't create things with class levels, but what about a new humanoid race (which is usually presented as a 1st level warrior of that race)?
3. If you have a creature concept that advances inherently within its concept, like say a barghest*, should you have both 'basic' and 'advanced' versions presented or is just listing the method of advancement sufficient?
3a. Would basic/advanced versions count as 2 monsters or 1?
* As opposed to an advanced version of a base monster with class levels (like the Troll Hunter from the Monster Manual) or a template (like the Lammasu Golden Protector from MM) or just using advancement by HD rules (like a Dread Wraith or Truly Horrid Umber Hulk).
1. Not quite. Monsters that are singular monsters are fine. YOu can find those kind of monsters in a monster book (terrasque, tiamat, etc). What we dont want are villains or NPCs. We want what you might find in a monster book.
2. Right, but as you mention new humanoid races are done as 1st level warriors usually and we arent changing that.
3. Just list the method of advancement. There is a section in the monster stat block for that.
3a. Since I said to do it in the stat block in my answer to 3 you dont need an answer to this question. :)
I dont see why a template couldnt also be one of your three monsters. I;ll check with the judges.
Actually, that sounds like a good idea. For instance, Vampires and Vampire Spawn are related, one is a template, the other a monster. Or wolf, dire wolf, werewolf. Things like that.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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3. If you have a creature concept that advances inherently within its concept, like say a barghest*, should you have both 'basic' and 'advanced' versions presented or is just listing the method of advancement sufficient?3a. Would basic/advanced versions count as 2 monsters or 1?
* As opposed to an advanced version of a base monster with class levels (like the Troll Hunter from the Monster Manual) or a template (like the Lammasu Golden Protector from MM) or just using advancement by HD rules (like a Dread Wraith or Truly Horrid Umber Hulk).
3. Just list the method of advancement. There is a section in the monster stat block for that.3a. Since I said to do it in the stat block in my answer to 3 you dont need an answer to this question. :)
As a DM, I often find myself referencing 'Advanced' versions of creatures - from the Displacer Beast Pack Lord to the Werewolf Lord to the Greater Stone Golem, I like seeing the math done for me.
Would I be penalized for presenting two stat blocks for one monster?
Por Ejemplo, I have created the "Monstoro!" creature, which comes in three flavors.
Monster X is critter that advances by HD from one size to another.
Monster Y is like a person, and can take class levels.
Monster Z is a template, which can be applied to regular SRD creatures to make them more "Monstero!"-ish.
Thereby, I might have five or six Stat Blocks: Monster X, Super-HD Advanced Monster X (Monster XXX, if you will), 1st-level warrior Monster Y, 15th-level Sorcerer Monster Y, a Monster Z-infected Black Pudding, and a break-down of the template.
Is that just way, WAY outside the intent of the contest?
If I read Clark correctly, your Monster XXX and 15th level Monster Y would be outside the rules of the contest. Saying 'This monster advances by HD' and 'This monster is presented as a first-level warrior, and advances by class' is sufficient.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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If I read Clark correctly, your Monster XXX and 15th level Monster Y would be outside the rules of the contest. Saying 'This monster advances by HD' and 'This monster is presented as a first-level warrior, and advances by class' is sufficient.
That's cool. I just wonder if it would be acceptable to go beyond 'sufficient' - and the rules of the contest - and provide DMs with the sort of things that I always like to see in a monster entry.
Would that be a DQ, or is that sort of decision up to the contestant . . . and, ultimately, the voters?
Clark, is there any reason that the word limit on each monster is hard and can't be spread amongst the three as needed? Not only does this seem to me that it will limit the amount of 'simple' monsters that are part of the theme (since who's going to waste words), but also, I imagine that you could have a short description on each individual monster, and then a section talking about them as a group, society, culture, etc. Unless there's a reason that the judges have which I'm not thinking of, I'd suggest a single word limit for the three monsters, to be divided up any way the contestants want.
I'll run it by the judges.
That's cool. I just wonder if it would be acceptable to go beyond 'sufficient' - and the rules of the contest - and provide DMs with the sort of things that I always like to see in a monster entry.
Would that be a DQ, or is that sort of decision up to the contestant . . . and, ultimately, the voters?
We really only want 3 stat blocks. So I will talk with the other judges but my guess is that each "version" counts as a monster (ie like displacer beast and displacer beast pack lord). My preference (but maybe not the final decision on the matter) is that you simply list how they advance and then in the description text you could say "Pack Lord: some displacer beasts blah blah blah."
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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We really only want 3 stat blocks. So I will talk with the other judges but my guess is that each "version" counts as a monster (ie like displacer beast and displacer beast pack lord). My preference (but maybe not the final decision on the matter) is that you simply list how they advance and then in the description text you could say "Pack Lord: some displacer beasts blah blah blah."
Very cool. Hey - and Merry Christmas and stuff.
You take darn good care of us and give us a wonderful community. Thank you.
What about a monster with alternate form or shapechanging abilities? Should they stat the different versions of the monster? Similar to the Lycanthrope? Or just mention it in passing, like the Vampire? What if the different forms are not standard monster forms?
(My entry would have included some related shapechangers that are usually encountered in 3 different arrays.)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8
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Would it be acceptable to source via hyperlink certain material from the SRD: eg. a Spell as a theme, the description of aberration or undead with all immunities and SQ's, or even the monster entry for goblin if we were to create the goblin dog, goblin snake and goblin mongoose for voters to use as a point of reference rather than reiterating SRD material in our word count?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Would it be acceptable to source via hyperlink certain material from the SRD: eg. a Spell as a theme, the description of aberration or undead with all immunities and SQ's, or even the monster entry for goblin if we were to create the goblin dog, goblin snake and goblin mongoose for voters to use as a point of reference rather than reiterating SRD material in our word count?
This brings up a good point:
For creature abilities/traits/qualities that are based on their type, do we need to spell them out in the stat block or just list "construct traits" or "undead traits" or whatever under their SQ section (and perhaps under 'resistances' and 'immunities' in their DEFENSE section, if the stat block reads similarly to the villain stat block form) in the stat block and leave it at that?
Update:
Templates are a go. Counts as a monster.
You can now lend words from one monster to another. There will be a total of XXX words for all three monsters' descriptive texts, if you want to break that down as AAA for monster 1, BBB for monster 2 and CCC for monster 3, so long as it is XXX or less you are fine.
Big no on advanced versions. Dont do new stat blocks for them. Just list how they advance and then if you want you can use some of the descriptive text word count to detail advanced versions. We only want 3 stat blocks.
For creature abilities/traits/qualities that are based on their type, do we need to spell them out in the stat block or just list "construct traits" or "undead traits" or whatever under their SQ section (and perhaps under 'resistances' and 'immunities' in their DEFENSE section, if the stat block reads similarly to the villain stat block form) in the stat block and leave it at that?
You can do it either way. Since there is no word limit for content in the stat block, I dont know why you would link.
HOWEVER you shouldnt use a link to bootstrap in content in your intro section. That said, there is nothing wrong with referring to content without fully spelling it out. You see that in published material all the time. If you refer to the dazed condition or the light spell, you dont have to reprint that content.
Thats right--I'm here updating you on Christmas Eve!!!
Update:
Templates are a go. Counts as a monster. <snip>
While I'm not going to be one of the eight making the monsters but reading this made me cheer. I love templates, it's the one thing that I actually liked right off about 3rd edition. I hope at least one of the Eight will have a template in there.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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I dig templates, though templates might be hard on word count, so be careful, supserstars!
advice for how to get my vote is in the 'dreaming of monsters' thread.
good luck and see the round's winners today!