Masterwork dogslicer?!?!!!1!one!


Rise of the Runelords


A dogslicer is a jagged piece of metal poorly attached to some kind of handle, right? So when the adventure text says "masterwork dogslicer", does that mean "dang, that's a fine looking shiv" or "its still a piece of junk, just a sturdy one, and we're using the game term masterwork... even though nobody in their right mind thinks this is an example of craftsmanship and skill".

Just having a hard time wrapping my head around a masterwork piece of junk.

Liberty's Edge

cr0m wrote:

A dogslicer is a jagged piece of metal poorly attached to some kind of handle, right? So when the adventure text says "masterwork dogslicer", does that mean "dang, that's a fine looking shiv" or "its still a piece of junk, just a sturdy one, and we're using the game term masterwork... even though nobody in their right mind thinks this is an example of craftsmanship and skill".

Just having a hard time wrapping my head around a masterwork piece of junk.

I'd say that it was made with an unusually high-quality chunk of metal, which holds an edge better than normal for a dogslicer and which has a better balance. It might not even be prone to breaking like normal dogslicers.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A dogslicer is clearly more than just another name for a badly-made dagger; there isn't another weapon in the game with identical combat stats.

For our game (where the PCs are all goblins) I made three qualities of weapons available: goblin quality (10% of normal price, virtually unlimited quantities available), standard quality (SRD prices, limited selection and availability), and masterwork (only a couple choices). This list included a bunch of normal weapons plus ogre hooks and dogslicers. Goblin quality weapons are the kind that break on a natural one.

Liberty's Edge

tbug wrote:

A dogslicer is clearly more than just another name for a badly-made dagger; there isn't another weapon in the game with identical combat stats.

For our game (where the PCs are all goblins) I made three qualities of weapons available: goblin quality (10% of normal price, virtually unlimited quantities available), standard quality (SRD prices, limited selection and availability), and masterwork (only a couple choices). This list included a bunch of normal weapons plus ogre hooks and dogslicers. Goblin quality weapons are the kind that break on a natural one.

You have a good point and an excellent idea. Goblin-grade weapons are the sort of thing apprentices throw away as uselessly flawed - like a failure between 5 and 10 on a Craft check (ruining the material) actually produces goblin-grade items.

It adds a whole new level of amusing ideas... Armor that gets destroyed if hit by a critical-threat blow (even if the crit isn't confirmed), weapons that break on a natural one, food that causes nasty side effects such as the runs or stomach cramping, and so on. Anyone who regularly purchased such to save money would likely be getting Greed points like mad along with the other unfortunate side effects of such shoddy production.

I like this idea.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber

For the record on page 13 of the first Pathfinder book it states under Goblin Weaponry: Goblin weapons that aren't magic or masterwork are poorly made - on a natural one they break.

Therefore some goblin weapons are masterwork, i.e. not junk, and they don't break easily as their counterparts.


Wicht wrote:

For the record on page 13 of the first Pathfinder book it states under Goblin Weaponry: Goblin weapons that aren't magic or masterwork are poorly made - on a natural one they break.

Therefore some goblin weapons are masterwork, i.e. not junk, and they don't break easily as their counterparts.

QFT

I figured unless there was a sidebar somewhere, I treat all NPC weapons as listed. If they're *masterwork*, then they're +300gp to the cost (or 1/2 price for resale), or they're +2,300gp if they're listed as *+1*.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I'd treat a masterwork dogslicer as a dogslicer that doesn't break on a 1 and that's about it. :)


I figure a masterwork dogslicer is a combination of 3 things:

1. Slightly above average materials (at least for the metal). But it's still just scavenged junk. It's not like a goblin smith with 100 gp is going to go out and buy some good steel from a smithy in a human town. I suppose you could argue that they could trade the gold to some other critters and get a broken piece of a masterwork sword. But it seems more likely to me that they would just find 100 gp worth of broken stuff that qualified as masterwork. But you're still left with the concept of 100 gp piles of junk waiting to be scooped up by goblins. This probably would bother the OP as much as the MW slicer. So on to my next two ideas.

2. You need a "lucky" craft attempt that was more successful than usual. Like rolling a 20 or something. This explains why it doesn't break easily. The little freak got it right for a change.

3. And most importantly (in role play terms), you need constant care from an experienced goblin warrior. I'm pretty sure that the only masterwork slicers are in the hands of elite goblins, the rangers and such. So you can assume that some of the bonus and toughness comes from the amount of care that the owner gives the weapon. The little freak has a few character levels, and he knows enough to put in plenty of time sharpening the blade and keeping the handle and attachment points well maintained.

The more you concentrate on #2 & #3, the less you have to think about the junk aspect.


Michael F wrote:
The little freak got it right for a change.

Thank you. This is what I was thinking--the "masterwork" is just shorthand for "+1 damage, bub". It doesn't mean the goblin suddenly grew a forge and some skill.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There's a counter-example.

Spoiler:
Ripnugget has a "+1 dogslicer". To me, this implies the existence of what even longshanks would consider "masterwork" dogslicers.


cr0m wrote:
Michael F wrote:
The little freak got it right for a change.
Thank you. This is what I was thinking--the "masterwork" is just shorthand for "+1 damage, bub". It doesn't mean the goblin suddenly grew a forge and some skill.

I think you mean "+1 attack, bub."


Err, right, +1 attack. Thanks, bub! :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dogslicers are a new weapon; they're detailed in the Player's Guide to Rise of the Runelords, but basically, they're identical to short swords except that they do slashing damage instead of piercing damage. A skilled smith could easily make a normal dogslicer that doesn't break on a natural 1 by using standard sword-making skills, but most goblins don't have that type of hand-eye coordination or patience or artistry to pull that off. And goblins are traditionally the only ones who use dogslicers, so that's why it's so uncommon to see a well-made one.

As for masterwork dogslicers... these ARE created by goblin smiths. They're rare, but they exist. A masterwork dogslicer probably doesn't look much different than a normal dogslicer, but it's much more cunningly put together and strong and sharp and well-balanced. It costs a lot more too. But otherwise, it functions fine; doesn't break on a 1, and gets the standard masterwork bonus of +1 to attack rolls.

Magic dogslicers also exist (as seen in the case of Ripnugget). You have to have a masterwork dogslicer before you can make it a magic dogslicer, though, and since this basically means you need a goblin smith AND a goblin spellcaster with Craft Arms and Armor... magic dogslicers are pretty rare.


Since Goblins get "-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma" stat adjustments, I'd figure the only thing holding them back would be their ADD/ impatience. They still possess the same faculties as humans when it comes to a craft check based on Intelligence. Unless Golarian Goblins have a different mock-up in their crunch (i.e. Goblins get a -2 to their WIS or INT), a Goblin should have the potential to making a good item. It's not like the rank and file get these weapons.

From Goblin raids, I don't see Goblins only *always* being limited to dump diving for metal junk.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Hmm A Holy Avenger Dogslicer...


I know this is old, but this is what I envision a Masterwork Dogslicer to look like: http://www.zombietools.net/shop/rat-bastard/.

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