Look at how well R-rated movies do compared to PG-13 ones on average.
Actually, R-rated movies do worse.
I really liked HMM and I'm looking forward to running it. The whole torture porn complaint was a little bit of a surprise to me. The ogres are vile and disgusting, and that's exactly how they should be. Paizo is doing a really good job redefining the classic monsters. After playing the adventure, the PCs are going to stop saying 'Sweet, ogres, easy xp, lets rush em' and start saying.. 'ogre infested mountains? I'm saving my last scorching ray for myself just in case I get grabbed.'.
Look at how well R-rated movies do compared to PG-13 ones on average.Actually, R-rated movies do worse.
Yeah, we covered that ground. My bad.
I really liked HMM and I'm looking forward to running it. The whole torture porn complaint was a little bit of a surprise to me. The ogres are vile and disgusting, and that's exactly how they should be. Paizo is doing a really good job redefining the classic monsters. After playing the adventure, the PCs are going to stop saying 'Sweet, ogres, easy xp, lets rush em' and start saying.. 'ogre infested mountains? I'm saving my last scorching ray for myself just in case I get grabbed.'.
Awesome! That's exactly what I was going for!
A good analogy is how Joss Whedon established the Reavers in Firefly. I love how you never even need to see one to be afraid of them thanks to the awesome set up they get (in the pilot, the first time we hear about them early in the episode, Jayne, who's pretty badass says "I won't go anywhere near Reaver territory!"...genius). Even the guy who kinda "goes Reaver" in the third episode is terrifying. That was my goal with the Grauls. They ain't ogres, they're only half...imagine how awful those ogres must be.
Damn, I go to work for ten hours and this thread goes all over the place.
I am afraid I am going to drag it back to page two, back to pres man asking if we "the readers" needed the detail level.
And I have to say again, that for me, the answer is "yes."
And in case it wasn't obvious in my other posts, I am not claiming anyone needs to agree with me. These are only my (jaded and cynical) opinions.
Killing dozens of people quickly and efficiently with no remorse may qualify as Evil to some. (And to them I say "God bless you. May you continue to have as kind of a life where that is the case.") But to me it doesn't.
There are far to many variables. Too much that I don't know to label that as Evil.
After all, how many tribes do the PC's of an average game have to slaughter before their actions count as Evil? (Killing dozens, quickly and efficiently, without remorse - and hey! Loot the bodies while your at it! ;-) )
For my last point on the subject, I give you Dr, Kevorkian. Killed dozens of people, quickly and efficiently, and with no remorse. We could argue for weeks on if his actions are Evil or not... And in the end that is up to the individual. But I would have a hard time accepting that the man himself is Evil. (Besides, I am certainly in no position to judge him.)
And that is why I (and perhaps, only I) need the gory detail to set the Ogres apart and show me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that these monsters are truly Evil and not possibly misunderstood.
And that, ironically, is the problem. Since none of this is apparent to the PCs or has any game effect, why did *I* have to read it? Unless the PCs start giving captive ogres psychotherapy, there is no way that any of this background fluff will come out. You have provided background information that the PCs are unlikely to discover and that does little to advance the plot, give the PCs clues, or drive the story. What purpose does it serve, then - other than to be gratuitous?
Keep reading the thread JSL, I don't think anything is objectionable in Hook Mountain Massacre. It's all implied, even the stuff for GMs eyes. Find me one specific example of descriptive rape please.
I have no problem with badguys being evil with a capital "E". In fact, I love the Nualia character from PF #1. Her backstory and motivation provide ample fuel to the adventure. As a DM, I can see where she has been and where she is coming from and I can reveal that to the players in meaningful ways that will help them ultimately piece the overall story arc together.The ogres at Hook Mtn., frankly lack any of that. They're are brutal because they are ogres. They rape and eat people because they are ogres. Hell, they could be lions, it would make no difference. Lions eat people too.
Yeah, but Lions don't rape people. If you read the adventure with more of an open mind instead of shutting off, you'd see the ogres are a totally different brand of evil than Nualia, who is a villain we can sympathize with. These ogres are evil because they view smaller creatures as toys, playthings, sexual curiosities, and food. That's the evil they are.
I want the focus of the adventure to be PCs battling Evil, not a bunch of dumb brutes. Your excessive descriptions of the ogres actually detract from the heroic focus of the game by turning it into a gore-fest instead...
Ogres are dumb brutes. They are gory creatures by nature. They mash people up and eat them. They ain't bright. If you don't want your PCs to fight ogres then Hook's not for you obviously. Though there are other baddies in there for those who love enchantment magic.
Also, keep in mind charm monster is a 4th level spell, so a 7th level wizard has one or maybe two on hand (the PCs are 7th level when they hit the Grauls), unless they spend a considerable amount of money on scrolls buddy.
AND: Charm ain't dominate. So the ogre likes em, so what. Don't mean the ogre does what the spellcaster says, especially cause, as you pointed out, these ogres are really f#@@ing stupid. They may decide to display their affections, and that would result in much objectionable material, so you might have to ban charm monster entirely to protect your delicate sensibilities. ;-)
Yeah, but Lions don't rape people.
You know they want to though. You can see it in their eyes! I bet google will tell me different (Can I get a Rule 34?)!
By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for managing to keep this a largely civil discourse all the way onto page 5, with minimal smurfing. Even the war / troop / hitler references were disregarded. Most impressive.
Yeah, but Lions don't rape people.You know they want to though. You can see it in their eyes! I bet google will tell me different (Can I get a Rule 34?)!
By the way, I'd like to thank everyone for managing to keep this a largely civil discourse all the way onto page 5, with minimal smurfing. Even the war / troop / hitler references were disregarded. Most impressive.
You know this whole sm*rf thing is ridiculous, and I won't stand by it. I frankly find them very objectionable. I will never use the word sm*rf in any of my posts and see my avatar turned into something so obscene, cause then I might never recover.
Thank god there is no other way besides typing the word sm*rf to get your avatar marred in such a horrid manner. No other way.
AAAAAAAHHH! The goggles! They do nothing! My eyes!!!
Why do I get the unnerving feeling we're going to see Nick's next adventure feature these little blue things?
Ah smoof, he smoofed me in the smoof! Smoof his smoofy smoof, Rocko!
Then again, I can't say as I'd find flattening them into paste and then crammed into an ogre objectionable.
Why do I get the unnerving feeling we're going to see Nick's next adventure feature these little blue things?
Ah smoof, he smoofed me in the smoof! Smoof his smoofy smoof, Rocko!
Then again, I can't say as I'd find flattening them into paste and then crammed into an ogre objectionable.
HA! the italics is the best! :-)
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Damn, I go to work for ten hours and this thread goes all over the place.
I am afraid I am going to drag it back to page two, back to pres man asking if we "the readers" needed the detail level.
And I have to say again, that for me, the answer is "yes."
And in case it wasn't obvious in my other posts, I am not claiming anyone needs to agree with me. These are only my (jaded and cynical) opinions.
Killing dozens of people quickly and efficiently with no remorse may qualify as Evil to some. (And to them I say "God bless you. May you continue to have as kind of a life where that is the case.") But to me it doesn't.
There are far to many variables. Too much that I don't know to label that as Evil.
After all, how many tribes do the PC's of an average game have to slaughter before their actions count as Evil? (Killing dozens, quickly and efficiently, without remorse - and hey! Loot the bodies while your at it! ;-) )
For my last point on the subject, I give you Dr, Kevorkian. Killed dozens of people, quickly and efficiently, and with no remorse. We could argue for weeks on if his actions are Evil or not... And in the end that is up to the individual. But I would have a hard time accepting that the man himself is Evil. (Besides, I am certainly in no position to judge him.)
And that is why I (and perhaps, only I) need the gory detail to set the Ogres apart and show me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that these monsters are truly Evil and not possibly misunderstood.
Man, you really set the evil bar high, don't you? :-) I respect your elevated moral standards.
Yeah, like, give me a Hustler, 6 packs of smokes, two unusually small condoms....psstt..and a copy of "Pathfinder.""I'm sorry, son, we don't do that Pathfinder filth in these respectable premises. Here, have this snuff video instead."
::Nick sighs, caves, and then buys the snuff video::
Killing dozens of people quickly and efficiently with no remorse may qualify as Evil to some. (And to them I say "God bless you. May you continue to have as kind of a life where that is the case.") But to me it doesn't.There are far to many variables. Too much that I don't know to label that as Evil.
I know. I find it SO hard to condemn the Nazis as the scumbags that they were. Oh, hang on...I don't...
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After all, how many tribes do the PC's of an average game have to slaughter before their actions count as Evil? (Killing dozens, quickly and efficiently, without remorse - and hey! Loot the bodies while your at it! ;-) )
Just the one. When your PCs start slicing into the elderly, infirm, infants and cowering unarmed they're evil. And if the entire tribe is composed of combat ready adults then that's not the players' fault; it's the DM's.
That's why it's so much fun to have the PCs track into the mountains and find the whole tribe - not just the raiding party.
The adventure is specific on some atrocities. The female ogrekin's lovers for one
I dare ask you to point out where Pathfinder #3 actually spells out *all* atrocities. It suggests, but what we do see is par for the course for any D&D game I've ever been in since I was 17.
That someone has a lover outside the accepted norm, especially if the character is not supposed to be the norm, is not spelling out an atrocity. It is noting that an atrocity may have occurred offscreen.
Talking about size of organs, speed of insertion, and noises made by those involved in an act is "spelling out" an atrocity.
It's controversial because it has a bare boob in it. For some people that's a big deal.
But not for most people. And that's why we mention how common a nude breast is in out culture. It's proof most people don;t consider it a big deal. And that's important. Because some people are offended by women who don;t need their father's permission to marry, unwed sex, and people casting spells fer goodness sake. So we can;t ensure there is never anything to offend anyone.
A bare breast, or even full nudity in line art, is PG-13. If there's no penetration, nudity is not an R issue. Period.
The adventure is specific on some atrocities. The female ogrekin's lovers for one
I dare ask you to point out where Pathfinder #3 actually spells out *all* atrocities. It suggests, but what we do see is par for the course for any D&D game I've ever been in since I was 17.
That someone has a lover outside the accepted norm, especially if the character is not supposed to be the norm, is not spelling out an atrocity. It is noting that an atrocity may have occurred offscreen.
Talking about size of organs, speed of insertion, and noises made by those involved in an act is "spelling out" an atrocity.
It's controversial because it has a bare boob in it. For some people that's a big deal.But not for most people. And that's why we mention how common a nude breast is in out culture. It's proof most people don;t consider it a big deal. And that's important. Because some people are offended by women who don;t need their father's permission to marry, unwed sex, and people casting spells fer goodness sake. So we can;t ensure there is never anything to offend anyone.
A bare breast, or even full nudity in line art, is PG-13. If there's no penetration, nudity is not an R issue. Period.
Werd. Thanks Dungeon Grrrl. You really summed up what I meant by "off screen." I went out of my way to ensure there is no discussion of size of organs, speed of insertion, and noises made.
Well, mostly, and James caught the few instances that snuck out of my diseased mind. ;-)
This is fascinating! For someone who is outside the main cultural make-up of these boards (I'm a Brit), it really is interesting to read as a debate. My girlfriend is American and we are continually amazed by how different our cultures are (whilst having mostly the same language :D)
I think too much gore is silly, but I applaud attempts to try new things in writing.
@Mr Logue - have you seen any of Martin McDonagah's plays; they have some amazing stuff in them. I directed "A Skull in Connemara" and it was great fun!
Hmmm....
It appears that once again, I find myself in the wrong camp. I never thought of myself as a backward, prudish, over-sensitive moron, but apparently, those of us don't like the direction of RoTL has gone are just that.
You've convinced me.
I guess I'll cancel my subscription today.
Whoa, nobody called you a backwards, prudish, over-sensitive moron! I don't think doppelganger or pres man or anyone else here is any of those things either! Just discussing the issue at hand - is the stuff in Hook objectionable, and my personal opinion is...not even close. Look at any other genre of expression and you'll find far worse that is not even considered objectionable or "for Mature Audiences" at all.
All I'm saying. Not making judgment calls on you fine folk. I learned long ago not to judge, less someone decide to start doing the same to me...and then I'd be in deep deep s+&!.
If I made you feel like I was calling you any of those things Stunty, then I apologize. Seriously. I'm sorry.
Sorry, Hook and Pathfinder didn't work out for you, and I hope you find excellent gaming experience and good fun elsewhere.
This is fascinating! For someone who is outside the main cultural make-up of these boards (I'm a Brit), it really is interesting to read as a debate. My girlfriend is American and we are continually amazed by how different our cultures are (whilst having mostly the same language :D)
I think too much gore is silly, but I applaud attempts to try new things in writing.
@Mr Logue - have you seen any of Martin McDonagah's plays; they have some amazing stuff in them. I directed "A Skull in Connemara" and it was great fun!
DUDE! The Pillow Man is amazing. I love The Cripple of Innishmaan too! He's a genius. When I teach at uni (I switched to your slang just for you FabesMinis), I'll totally direct The Pillow Man.
The Irish are amazing playwrights. I mean you guys get Shakespeare and Sarah Kane (I'm starting rehearsals for a production of Crave next month), but the Irish have soooooo many good-uns! Observe the Sons of Ulster Marching Towards the Somme was one of my favorite shows ever. I played David Craig, it was an awe-inspiring production. Great times.
Good to meet a fellow theatre junkie on the boards Fabes!
@Nick Logue
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Hmmm....
It appears that once again, I find myself in the wrong camp. I never thought of myself as a backward, prudish, over-sensitive moron, but apparently, those of us don't like the direction of RoTL has gone are just that.
You've convinced me.
I guess I'll cancel my subscription today.
Disagreeing with your opinion, and even making a case for another point of view, is not to make a personal attack upon you.
However, I suppose you could choose to interpret it like that.
But then I could choose to interpret what you've written as an accusation that I, along with many others, am an insensitive git who makes personal attacks on other peoples' character on internet forums.
But I'm sure that's not your intention. right?
If you'd like to reconsider the cancellation, you might wish to note the staff posts stating that HMM is the goriest part of RotRL and the rest of the AP will be milder than Skinsaw.
Gawd I guess my only source of violent reading is going to have to be the local newspaper since pathfinder is to dark and depressing. I wonder if all these criminals read pathfinder before they committed a crime. Such week willed individuals not being able to decern reality from fantasy or right from wrong. We all have fantasies and dreams, its what moves some of us to strive harder towards happiness. Since im a bleeding heart libral extremist I guess these poor criminals were just looking for a scrap of happiness and since their absentte parents never taught them right from wrong when they were younger they learned everything they needed to know about life from pathfinder modules or startrek. What a shame.
Hitler, Charles Manson, The DC Sniper, Huesan, the guy that runs north korea and is worshiped as a god if they played DnD maybe they wouldn't have done those horrible things.
If i was a real life DnD character and people were being plucked off in my village everyday i would want to take down the sniper and bring him to justice. If a bard in Sharn was getting blonde barmaids to worship a fiend and committe crimes on its behalf, I would want to track him down. If a Dictator in control of the dale lands started putting elves and worshipers of mystra into a giant blender or doing weird magical experiemnts to them - I would want him overthrown. Is that not the right attitude? oh wait im a polymorphed sheep.
How do you candy coat and censor a roleplaying game?
How do you candy coat and censor reality?
Sorry for the rant but it just strikes a cord - I feel like im on another planet.
@Nick Logue
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, a lot of the stuff in Hook I view as darkly comic truth be told. It's horrifying, so we hate and need to destroy the ogres, but it's also sort of silly really.
Great to meet you Fabes! Kindred spirits! In fact my wife is a director too! She runs her own theatre company in Honolulu and Manhattan called Cruel Theatre. She's an amazing actress too in fact, though she doesn't have the time to it much anymore. She did just finish a show with the Living Theatre here in New York though, so that is pretty sexy-crazy-cool! If you don't know their work, google them, they are amazing. If you ever want to chat theatre email me: nflogue@hotmail.com
Who knows if I travel out UK way, mayhaps we can even do a show together. That would be awesome. Anyone who respects/enjoys McDonagah is good theatre peeps in my book. Ever read/see any Sarah Kane...she's pretty intense. I've done one of her shows (4.48 Psychosis) and I'm really looking forward to doing Crave.
Gawd I...be...from...another planet.Hey! I'm from another planet, too!
** spoiler omitted **
Ha! Awesome Andrew! :-)
If you'd like to reconsider the cancellation, you might wish to note the staff posts stating that HMM is the goriest part of RotRL and the rest of the AP will be milder than Skinsaw.
Correct! Cookies all around!!!
Also, Curse of the Crimson Throne is a totally different AP with a totally different feel, and decidedly less gory/freakish than HMM.
More theatre talk, the last time on these boards I promise...
More theatre talk, the last time on these boards I promise...
** spoiler omitted **
Sweet! To be continued over emailage!!!
To answer the original question:
No, HMM doesn't feel like torture porn to me. That would be specifically about showing all the disgusting details, and as has been mentioned already, all the nasty details are implied, not shown.
However, the nasty details are there outside the frame. It's not difficult for players or DMs alike to imagine them.
And they certainly push me towards the edge of my comfort zone. Which is why I intend to use them as-is. These evil monsters should be scary, and nasty, and do bad things.
If every adventure dialled up the evil to 10, I'd have a problem. But as part of a balanced diet of Adventure Path? Hook Mountain suits me just fine.
It's a progression and different type of evil, nothing more. Allow me to explain:
Burnt Offerings
The Skinsaw Murders
On the other hand, the cultists know EXACTLY who they're worshiping, taking the PCs from "Wow, I feel bad for what happened to him"-type evil to "We've got to stop them for the good of the populace" kind. The lamia at the end further cements this.
Hook Mountain Massacre
And yes, I realize that the main complaint is WHAT the ogres and their kin did to the victims while they were still alive, but for the most part that's DM flavoring and is subject to change by said DM. If you want the ogrekin to simply be inbred and disgusting hillbillies, go right ahead and leave out any implied violations of the victims. I, on the other hand, intend to be as graphic as my player's will let me be in terms of descriptions and encounters because I want my party to be downright TERRIFIED of the thought of being captured by these things. They're not just three giant-type hit dice of Xp waiting to be killed, they're a degenerate blemish upon the land that needs to scoured clean. And when my PCs find out that the main bad guy actually approved of using them (whether he did or did not), I hope that will put just a touch more fear into them.
All told, great job Mr. Logue, keep up the good work.
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One of the things that has happened from both the depravity in the adventures and this discussion of it has been to raise my awareness of my own GMing style. I have, in the past, been accused by my players (including my wife!) of being a bit too free with the gore and slaughter in my antagonists, particularly in one-shot games that I put together quickly; I'm fond of insane cultists (I used to run a whole lot of L5R, and my tsukai would get, ah, "creative" at times), and it often seemed that the PCs would inevitably wander into some scene - or the aftermath thereof - of savage brutality and blood-spattered wickedness.
When I read HMM, though, I found myself getting somewhat uncomfortable with what I was reading, and trying to get into the mindset of the GM who would be running it was not an entirely pleasant experience. In a sense, I think I got a glimpse of what it's like to be a player in one of those games I mentioned - and I wasn't really okay with it.
None of which means that I don't intend to run the game more or less as written, though since one of my players is an exceptionally precocious 14 year old, I do intend to take a little time to talk things over with her mother before we run. What it means for me, though, is that I will be more thoughtful about how and when I use those elements, to make sure that the discomfort is enhancing the game experience rather than just being slapped on it. It's been something of an education, and in that regard, I really appreciate it.
Tangent: this is the kind of spoiler thread title I would love for my players to read...
All told, great job Mr. Logue, keep up the good work.
Damn right! You did a fantastic job Nick.
I ran through HMM last night just the first leg of the journey. They took out the Grauls but damn, they where begging for Mind Blanks or some form of concussion based Amnesia.
One things for sure, they will NEVER see an Ogre or Ogrekin in the same light as before. And they have vowed to cleanse the ogres from forest and mountains. Once they are finished with the more dire situations, to protect the nearby towns.
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Nick, I think Rise of the Runelords is a pretty kickass flagship, too. I just think it could be better in spots and that the first part of the third book has a "giggling juvenile" approach to its subject matter. The first book was much more adult in how it presented its evil opponents. I subscribed to the series after buying and reading the first book. I even purchased the pdf so I could sneak read it on my work computer. The second was creepy as hell without being silly in its presentation. The third book is great in spots, and if you ignore the "immature mature" tone of the descriptions and backstory, it is quite a good romp all around. The teenage gross out factor seriously drains the credibility of the adventure when reading it. I will be able to filter it to non silly levels for my players when they get to it, but the whole section is like encountering stick figure flip-book animation in the middle of an expensive cgi movie. It may be good on its own and tell a great story, but it doesn't mesh well with the other high quality components and is lacking in substance when compared to them.I've seen some of your other work (Library of Last Resort, especially), I know you can do great exposition in adventures. I just think you and your editor just really dropped the ball here. I realize that it's already published and you guys can't say...
I have to step in once again here. Why do people always assume more graphic means less mature? Gross out is not just for teens. Gross out is not a metaphor for immature. If anything, most people consider well-written depiction of violence and debauchery to be quite adult. What this tells me is that Paizo, and Nick in particular, have enough RESPECT for their reading audience to take the adventure to a MORE adult level. I'm sorry if you don't like it but disturbing concepts like incest and deviant lifestyles are just as relevant as normal and Strawberry Shortcake-like innocence; at least in fiction.
I am afraid that if we remain in this cloyingly conservative environment we now find ourselves in much longer, the attitudes of the zealous purients, who know what is 'right' for all of us, may finally achieve its desire to censor such ficticious endeavors. Man, this is starting to feel like V for Vendetta and 1984 territory to me. I mean, who would have ever thought that a Pathfinder adventure would have garnered the 'torture porn' tag so quickly. As Buffy would say, "Overreacting much?"
To Nick and James, I ask as Oliver Twist did: "Please sir, I want some more."
Hmm, I'm quite surprised at the complaints directed HMM. I, for one, am glad that Pathfinder is somewhat dark and gritty. Heck, you see equally or even more gruesome things on the nightly news.
Nick, keep up the good work. HMM rocks. Pathfinder or not, it's one of the best modules I've read in a long time period. It's rare that I read a module and say "this would be so awesome at the table!"
Tangent: this is the kind of spoiler thread title I would love for my players to read...
My fiance, who is playing a gnome jester in my game, first saw this thread's title and quizzically asked "WTF are they talking about?" However after I asked her to put "Deliverance" on our NetFlix queue ("No reason sweety..."), she saw the back of HMM and read the "Them Ogres Ain't Right" tagline. The look of "Dear Lord..." on her face was priceless!
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Well, again the issue is context. I certainly don't think a liking for violent imagery makes you all big and grown-up all by itself. High School shooters like that sort of thing but it doesn't make them "mature" (no matter what they might think) (and, before you mention it, I'm not suggesting that it is a cause for their behaviour either).And it's a continuum, not an either/or choice: gore drenched on the one hand or strawberry shortcake on the other (and pretending otherwise is extremely dishonest). If I thought that the stuff was necessary, or added to the plot, I wouldn't mind. Instead, it just seemed that the author was getting off on his own ingenuity at writing something nasty (sorry, Nic, but it does). If you like that sort of thing, then fine. But don't paint me as some utopian, fluffy...
Don't worry Aubrey, I would never paint you that way! :)))
But remember, Nick said that this was the worst that this particular AP was going to get. If we were led to believe that every Pathfinder was going to be this sick and (wonderfully-) twisted; I could more than understand the offended's concerns. However, this AP is all about sin, and one way to look at sin is as unapologistic excess. That's what these inbred Ogre-hybrids are all about. A good DM can tone down the darkness if he wants. And there was a complaint that 'Oh my gawd, the DM HAS to read this filth as well!' Good Lord, has it scarred your mind for life? You're a DM for Mystra's sake! You are supposed to think like a BBEG so you can give your player's a decent challenge for their XP! Nick Logue has just made your job easier! His bad guys are really, really bad! I mean if this stuff bothers you so much, don't ever watch CNN or MSNBC; that's real blood on there. Can you save your players from that imagery?
HMM is a lot like The X-Files episode Home. You can skip that episode if it really bothers you and plug in another Side Trek. Or use the maps and scenarios but just make the baddies 'Butterfly-Chasing Ogres' who listen to Hannah Montana and Regis and Kelly.
Did we really need such a heavy-handed thread for this? James' Intro told me what to expect before I ever started reading the module.
And once again, Aubrey; this was not directed at you. Yours is one of the more reasonable voices here, even if we don't see eye-to-eye on this particular issue.
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Sure, I deleted the above post you quoted as I didn't want to seem indignant. I think we have kept it pretty civil, which is nice.
On the intro - it was about the last bit I read of the book, so I wasn't very prepared. And you are right, it isn't going to ruin my life, and I'll gloss over stuff I find distasteful when I run the adventure. And, of course, not all of it is entirely gratuitous, either.
Sure, I deleted the above post you quoted as I didn't want to seem indignant. I think we have kept it pretty civil, which is nice.
Ah, here I was refreshing my browser thinking it had gone invisible on me, lol.
By the way, don’t paint me into the offended category. Porn makes the internet go ‘round, and “torture porn” no doubt has a contribution to make as well.
I’m in the “adventure should indicate it’s not for kids” category. Hell, even a “May be inappropriate for younger players” would be perfect.
[I’m not claiming to be the arbiter of what might be inappropriate for your children either, so don’t get all frothy on me.]
Yeah, we covered that ground. My bad.Look at how well R-rated movies do compared to PG-13 ones on average.Actually, R-rated movies do worse.
Sorry, Logue. I had one eye on Paizo and one eye on Project Runway. Now that's torture porn!
But remember, Nick said that this was the worst that this particular AP was going to get. If we were led to believe that every Pathfinder was going to be this sick and (wonderfully-) twisted; I could more than understand the offended's concerns.
Note that Nick said this well after this thread began.
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Note that Nick said this well after this thread began.
But remember, Nick said that this was the worst that this particular AP was going to get. If we were led to believe that every Pathfinder was going to be this sick and (wonderfully-) twisted; I could more than understand the offended's concerns.
This is true.
It's a ruse. He's all hopped up on foofie yuppie drinks and he's driving to your place right now.
Hide...the...huh...um, everything I guess. Straws, kids, orifices; matter of fact, make sure your neighbors are out working in the yard so he'll get tired out.