So, my fiance (who is in my Pathfinder game as a player) and I are walking through the book store yesterday when I see the White Dragon/Drizz't(TM) pack, to which I exclaim "Oh, I'm gonna need to get that". Her response is "No. We're so not fighting a white dragon".
"Oh really?"
"Yeah, really." *Pouty face*
Now, this got me thinking. Seeing as I'm a kind and benevolent husband-to-be, I'm thinking about swapping the white (whatever age it is) with another environment-appropriate dragon such as a silver or chromium dragon. Now my question is this: Do Golarion dragons follow the "standard" dragon alignments, or are they like Eberronian dragons and do as they will?
Heh, this is pretty funny. Go James. :)
This is like ninja phylosophy!
Answer before the question is formed in the mind.
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DAMN! That's impressive! Thanks James. Looks like a chromium dragon (or something sinister and chilly) it is then...
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Why, exactly, doesn't she want to fight a white dragon?
Disclamer: the below is all in good jest.
either that or she was scared of the gnome getting eaten in one bite...
Now we just need gnomes for the perfect triumvirate. :D
*waves at the boss, cookie shurikens at the ready*
Why, exactly, doesn't she want to fight a white dragon?Disclamer: the below is all in good jest.
** spoiler omitted **either that or she was scared of the gnome getting eaten in one bite...
Nah... She just thinks they're stupid. However! She is playing a gnome jester, so the trifecta is complete without even realizing it!
EDIT: Capt, your first assessment, despite it's lack of gnomery, was more accurate...
Geez, if I gotta fight a dragon, I would prefer a white...
Stupid is a bonus when fighting large, scary, potentially magic-using reptiles.
Contributor
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*waves at the boss, cookie shurikens at the ready*
Excellent. Such a good ninja minion.
*sips sake*
Nah... She just thinks they're stupid. However! She is playing a gnome jester, so the trifecta is complete without even realizing it!
Thinks... gnomes... stupid? *quivery chin*
Well, thank you for forming the trifecta, at any rate. :)
Wow! I know you Paizo guys are quick with the answers, but this is freakin' incredible.
Here he is folks: James Jacobs, he answers questions before you ask them.
Zwhaaaaa?! ... how is that possible?
Thinks... gnomes... stupid? *quivery chin*
No, no, no... She loves gnomes, hence her playing the gnome jester. It's the white dragon she thinks is stupid.
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Zwhaaaaa?! ... how is that possible?Wow! I know you Paizo guys are quick with the answers, but this is freakin' incredible.
Here he is folks: James Jacobs, he answers questions before you ask them.
It's just one of the services offered by the great folks at Paizo.
Tell your friends, tell your family, there's something for everyone* in Paizoland.
Oh! Well that's better... Does she think all dragons are stupid, or just the white one? (Because, well, white dragons technically are stupid, so I can't debate that point!)
Just the white one. I told her that I'd happily replace the "stupid" white with something smarter. She of course responded with a smart-ass answer. That reminds me, are white dragons still the short-bus riders they are in other settings? I'd love to see my PCs roll up on one thinking that they could out-think it, only to realize that they're dealing with a predatory genius.
What size category will be the dragon? I'm about to carve my own miniature from a block of wood that would match a Huge sized creature. I was going to make a giant, but if it will work for the dragon, I'll sculpt that instead. Since it's not until late November/ early December I might even have enough time to finish it.
Oh! Well that's better... Does she think all dragons are stupid, or just the white one? (Because, well, white dragons technically are stupid, so I can't debate that point!)Just the white one. I told her that I'd happily replace the "stupid" white with something smarter. She of course responded with a smart-ass answer. That reminds me, are white dragons still the short-bus riders they are in other settings? I'd love to see my PCs roll up on one thinking that they could out-think it, only to realize that they're dealing with a predatory genius.
Remeber, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules. If you want to suprise them with a very smart White Dragon, then do so. What is shown is just the average of the race in question. Hell, make it a magic using dragon and everything would be fun. ~WEG~ Just have it play upon the "stupid" part until the party lets their guard down and then "WHAM!!!".
Edit to fix typo.
Said dragon is indeed Huge.
Thank You!!!! Now I'll get out the dremel and go to town on it (I'll probably just have time to get a basic shape, but the coloring should be easy since I still have my white acrylic). If I finish, I'd love to show it here.
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Just the white one. I told her that I'd happily replace the "stupid" white with something smarter. She of course responded with a smart-ass answer. That reminds me, are white dragons still the short-bus riders they are in other settings? I'd love to see my PCs roll up on one thinking that they could out-think it, only to realize that they're dealing with a predatory genius.
Fair enough.
The stats for our dragons are the same as for the core game. And yes, the dragon section of PF 4 does explain why whites are so damn stupid. (Here's a hint: family post.)
If you want to suprise them with a very smart White Dragon, then do so.... Just have it play upon the "stupid" part until the party lets their guard downa dn then "WHAM!!!".
This is my advice as well! :)
What size category will be the dragon? I'm about to carve my own miniature from a block of wood that would match a Huge sized creature. I was going to make a giant, but if it will work for the dragon, I'll sculpt that instead. Since it's not until late November/ early December I might even have enough time to finish it.
You can actually "carve" your own dragon?! Please post your results when you finish...though I think I am somewhat overawed already.
~shakes my head~ My poor white cousins. I swear, those damn rednecks are showing up everywhere!
"You know you are a redneck if you owe your taxidermist more than you make in a year!"
"You know you are a redneck if your 3 year old child has more teeth than you do."
"You know you are a redneck if your local junk yard comes to you for spare parts."
What size category will be the dragon? I'm about to carve my own miniature from a block of wood that would match a Huge sized creature. I was going to make a giant, but if it will work for the dragon, I'll sculpt that instead. Since it's not until late November/ early December I might even have enough time to finish it.You can actually "carve" your own dragon?! Please post your results when you finish...though I think I am somewhat overawed already.
Yes, that is one way to "carve" out a nitch for yourself! Yuk! Yuk!
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Oh! Well that's better... Does she think all dragons are stupid, or just the white one? (Because, well, white dragons technically are stupid, so I can't debate that point!)Just the white one. I told her that I'd happily replace the "stupid" white with something smarter. She of course responded with a smart-ass answer. That reminds me, are white dragons still the short-bus riders they are in other settings? I'd love to see my PCs roll up on one thinking that they could out-think it, only to realize that they're dealing with a predatory genius.Remeber, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules. If you want to suprise them with a very smart White Dragon, then do so. What is shown is just the average of the race in question. Hell, make it a magic using dragon and everything would be fun. ~WEG~ Just have it play upon the "stupid" part until the party lets their guard down and then "WHAM!!!".
Edit to fix typo.
And there are doofy silver dragons, ergo there Must be at least one smart white dragon...
And there are doofy silver dragons, ergo there Must be at least one smart white dragon...Oh! Well that's better... Does she think all dragons are stupid, or just the white one? (Because, well, white dragons technically are stupid, so I can't debate that point!)Just the white one. I told her that I'd happily replace the "stupid" white with something smarter. She of course responded with a smart-ass answer. That reminds me, are white dragons still the short-bus riders they are in other settings? I'd love to see my PCs roll up on one thinking that they could out-think it, only to realize that they're dealing with a predatory genius.Remeber, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules. If you want to suprise them with a very smart White Dragon, then do so. What is shown is just the average of the race in question. Hell, make it a magic using dragon and everything would be fun. ~WEG~ Just have it play upon the "stupid" part until the party lets their guard down and then "WHAM!!!".
Edit to fix typo.
~gives a sarcatic drawl~ Oh, and there are certain were-creatures that make morons seem smart, so any dumb white dragons are bound to be percieved as smart!
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I've got the icingdeath mini and I like it, but it's Gargantuan instead of Huge. Huge is what apparently the dragon will be in adventure 5.So too big to use the Large White Dragon mini, and too small to use the Gargantuan White Dragon mini. Of course.
Actual vs perceived size my friends - the party's eyes widen at the dragon being there, that they exaggerate it's size in their heads so it seems bigger then it is.
Creative Director
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You can certainly use Icingdeath's mini for the dragon, but yeah, that'll be too huge. There are plenty of other properly sized dragons available from a wide range of minis producers, though. Limiting Pathfinder adventures to WotC's D&D prepainted mini choices is NOT a path we'll be treading.
Absolutely. It should be a while before we have a Dragon-fest like AoW, but its time we have some more Dragons.
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I suppose I should have pointed out that we don't actually use minis for sizing, or strategic combat. Heck, this might be the first time we actually use minis in real D&D at all. For us, they're just a thing we can get to add cool to the game. We visualize everything else in our heads.
Hmmm, maybe I'll just get the colossal red, too...
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I've got the icingdeath mini and I like it, but it's Gargantuan instead of Huge. Huge is what apparently the dragon will be in adventure 5.So too big to use the Large White Dragon mini, and too small to use the Gargantuan White Dragon mini. Of course.
Since I was digging arond on ebay this morning, I thought I'd mention that the Aspect of Bahamut is the right size (and roughly the right color).
I'd never really seen white dragons as stoopid per se. I'd usually played them as more animal than other dragons--more like Reign of Fire than Bubba got a banjo. Personally that's one thing I enjoy about drakes in pathfinder--they make a great choice for those of us who would prefer to keep the wings and breath weapons but have savage beast-dragons rather than snooty lizards with spectacles who don't have time to kill you right now, because they are annotating their memoires...so why don't you just run along.
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Er ... why do people think that White Dragons are stupid? Not as smart as the genius + level intelligence of many true dragons sure, but (at least once they reach adult age) not stupid.
A Huge white dragon will probably have an intelligence score of 12-14; smarter than the "average" pc. Very likely smarter than the party fighter, with every chance of being smarter than the cleric and the rogue as well.
A white dragon should have a level of reasoning, skills and tactics on par with most adventuring parties.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Er ... why do people think that White Dragons are stupid? Not as smart as the genius + level intelligence of many true dragons sure, but (at least once they reach adult age) not stupid.
A Huge white dragon will probably have an intelligence score of 12-14; smarter than the "average" pc. Very likely smarter than the party fighter, with every chance of being smarter than the cleric and the rogue as well.
A white dragon should have a level of reasoning, skills and tactics on par with most adventuring parties.
I've always played the "average" white dragon akin to smarter versions of the velociraptors in Jurassic Park. Extremely cunning hunters, but a far cry from being philosophy majors.
And Mothman is right, the older and bigger they get, the smarter they get, until they're smarter than the "average" PC.
In some ways though, a more feral dragon can be more dangerous than an intelligent one.
White Dragons are my favorite.