I am 90% certain that the only way to get to Golarion's moons and neighboring planets will be via magic. And no magic flying ships. Probably portals, but that hasn't been fully decided yet.
Moons, you say? Hmmmm :)
Hi Everyone!
I'd also like to know what Golarion's moon is called, what it looks like, what color, if one of the unfortunate PCs spots the Sandpoint Devil's black silhouette in front of it...
And the two other worlds, are they close enough to Golarion to be seen with bare eyes? Not just spotted, actually seen? Size of an Orange perhaps? Or a green watermelon?
best regards, Daniel
Come on Jacobs: NAMES, NAMES!
We await your reply.
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In addition to the moon, which has a very interesting story behind it, two additional inhabited worlds loom large on the horizons of Golarion...
...We plan to publish at least one GameMastery Module on each of these worlds, and if there is a genuine audience for this type of play I could be very easily convinced to schedule more and larger products in this vein.
*Cartman Imitation* SWEEET!
So a green planet and a red planet are offered. Assuming Golarion is a blue planet, we could use an Orange, Yellow, Indigo, and Violet planets...this will fit the seven colors of the Rainbow and coincidentally the seven sins...
PERHAPS sin magic derived its energy from some sort of "blending" of energies from all these planets, allowing Thassilon...I mean green is the color of envy, red of wrath, right? LOL. Just a thought.
For the hell of it, let's make the sun "white" in appearance, a blend of all seven colors, and rather than a giant fusion reactor, it could be a giant ball of magical energy.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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You know, all of this talk is making me think of the game Lunar, where
But, that's just me. Tangent done.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I forgot that J1: Entombed with the Pharaohs includes some pretty substantial references to the 11th planet orbiting Golarion's sun, a ringed gas giant important to the history and mythology of Ancient Osirion.
My preference is that the red and green planets loom large on Golarion's horizon, taking on the appearance of moons when the orbits line up correctly. I haven't worked out the math or various other implications, but I do love that image of Luke Skywalker looking up at three setting suns in Star Wars, physics be damned! :)
--Erik
In addition to the moon, which has a very interesting story behind it, two additional inhabited worlds loom large on the horizons of Golarion. The green planet, which I'm currently calling Castrovel, is covered with swamps and forests and weird gaseous seas. The red planet doesn't have a name yet, but it will use Edgar Rice Burroughs and Otis Adelbert Kline's Mars novels as a basis in the same way Golarion proper is based on pulp sword and sorcery. Psionics will certainly be common on Castrovel, and perhaps on the red planet as well.
It will be possible to travel there by thought, or on some sort of beam, or whatever. Each of these worlds will certainly include airships, but it remains to be seen whether or not you can take a trip between worlds on them.
We plan to publish at least one GameMastery Module on each of these worlds, and if there is a genuine audience for this type of play I could be very easily convinced to schedule more and larger products in this vein.
Erik, You can count me in for adventures (and other products) set on these worlds with a "sci fi" orientation! This is another great idea that you should have folks jump on sooner rather than later.
I haven't worked out the math or various other implications, but I do love that image of Luke Skywalker looking up at three setting suns in Star Wars, physics be damned! :)--Erik
The shot you describe from Star Wars has been for me the most inspiring scene in A New Hope for 30 years.
And I agree about Physics...sometimes it's best left alone!
We plan to publish at least one GameMastery Module on each of these worlds, and if there is a genuine audience for this type of play I could be very easily convinced to schedule more and larger products in this vein.
O.o
Pwease? I'll send more biscotti! :D
Add to that the simple fact that if the universe looks remotely like our own, steam engines will work. There's no way around it. If heated gases don't expand, you have a world that we probably couldn't even perceive with human senses, never mind live in. (I find S.M. Stirling's "Dies the Fire" unreadable because he somehow arranges to deactivate electricity, gunpowder, and steam technology. I could accept the first and maybe the second, but not the third.)
I can't dispute your science--you are certainly correct. But I see it more as an anthropological/sociological issue. Sure, steam engines would work, but the real question is: would they ever be created to begin with? In a world where a few arcane words and gestures can allow one to fly, or summon a beast to carry you, or allow you to instantaneously appear thousands of miles away, where is the impetus to tinker around with steam? Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention. And once you introduce magic into the equation, there is no need to look to science to solve one's problems. So I think it would make sense for scientific knowledge as we know it to be stunted in any world to which the presumptions of D&D apply.
I can't dispute your science--you are certainly correct. But I see it more as an anthropological/sociological issue. Sure, steam engines would work, but the real question is: would they ever be created to begin with? In a world where a few arcane words and gestures can allow one to fly, or summon a beast to carry you, or allow you to instantaneously appear thousands of miles away, where is the impetus to tinker around with steam? Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention. And once you introduce magic into the equation, there is no need to look to science to solve one's problems. So I think it would make sense for scientific knowledge as we know it to be stunted in any world to which the presumptions of D&D apply.
Stunted, maybe, but only up to a point.
D&D magic is inherently elitist and not subject to mass production. Non-magical physics is neither. I cannot make myself believe, no matter how hard I try, that a steam locomotive and tracks are less efficient and less expensive than an Eberron lightning rail system. (The best bet might be a hybrid, using a bound fire elemental to heat the boiler of an otherwise conventional train.)
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In addition to the moon, which has a very interesting story behind it, two additional inhabited worlds loom large on the horizons of Golarion. The green planet, which I'm currently calling Castrovel, is covered with swamps and forests and weird gaseous seas. The red planet doesn't have a name yet, but it will use Edgar Rice Burroughs and Otis Adelbert Kline's Mars novels as a basis in the same way Golarion proper is based on pulp sword and sorcery. Psionics will certainly be common on Castrovel, and perhaps on the red planet as well.
It will be possible to travel there by thought, or on some sort of beam, or whatever. Each of these worlds will certainly include airships, but it remains to be seen whether or not you can take a trip between worlds on them.
[...]
IIRC, astral projection is the traditional method of reaching Barsoom.
I'd also ask that you include a neutron star in the Golarion system, so that the occasional conjunctions and transits include wild gravitational lensing effects. Since they're so small and dim, most people would attribute the weirdly magnified views to the stars being right, or the gods. That would be awesome. Especially if you make its rotation perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic.
Stunted, maybe, but only up to a point.
D&D magic is inherently elitist and not subject to mass production. Non-magical physics is neither. I cannot make myself believe, no matter how hard I try, that a steam locomotive and tracks are less efficient and less expensive than an Eberron lightning rail system. (The best bet might be a hybrid, using a bound fire elemental to heat the boiler of an otherwise conventional train.)
It is true that not everyone can use magic, but it seems like most people would be able to benefit from it in some way--and to the extent that the drive to create some of our real world technologies would not be realized for perhaps thousands and thousands of years. Just my opinion. And my preference, I guess. YMMV.
I certainly won't try to defend the notion of Eberron's lightning rail. Or Eberron's anything, frankly. It's an odd setting and I do not care for it.
But I think your point is well taken. I think it could go either way, depending on a number of factors too numerous and esoteric to expound upon right now. I guess the most important issue is what one prefers. I like low tech, so perhaps I'm biased to rationalize it that way.
Over the years I've lost my ability to suspend disbelief in a setting that doesn't progress at all. Or worse, that regresses from a Golden Age and never recovers.
This was what made me a fan of the Wheel of Time, before Jordan lost control of his narrative: Randland had, to be sure, lost nearly all of the awesome magic/tech of the former Age, but they were getting it back and even making completely new discoveries.
Add to that the simple fact that if the universe looks remotely like our own, steam engines will work. There's no way around it. If heated gases don't expand, you have a world that we probably couldn't even perceive with human senses, never mind live in. (I find S.M. Stirling's "Dies the Fire" unreadable because he somehow arranges to deactivate electricity, gunpowder, and steam technology. I could accept the first and maybe the second, but not the third.)I can't dispute your science--you are certainly correct. But I see it more as an anthropological/sociological issue. Sure, steam engines would work, but the real question is: would they ever be created to begin with? In a world where a few arcane words and gestures can allow one to fly, or summon a beast to carry you, or allow you to instantaneously appear thousands of miles away, where is the impetus to tinker around with steam? Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention. And once you introduce magic into the equation, there is no need to look to science to solve one's problems. So I think it would make sense for scientific knowledge as we know it to be stunted in any world to which the presumptions of D&D apply.
True enough, but aside from the other points made about magic being elitist*, you have to keep in mind that your average fantasy setting for RPGs has a recorded history going back a couple thousand more years than we have recorded history on Earth.
So while the magical option would certainly stunt innovation, especially since those with high Intelligence are probably predisposed towards wizardry, you still have dwarves and elves (and maybe humans) having several thousand more years of civilization with metalworking skills, engineering, etc than we have in real life earth example.
And you also have the demi-human races having their huge lifespans, which would also help to increase innovation. (All you need is that one Leonardo, Archimedes, etc figure who also happens to have an extra 500+ years to tinker with his inventions, work on his calculations, etc)
IMHO, it isn't a big deal for their to be some level of technology approaching steamworks, etc. But then again, I like a little sci-fi in my fantasy, at least sometimes.
*It does take 5 levels of Wizard or 6 of Sorceror to be able to fly with "just a few words." Fly being the inbetween example of the 3 spells you mentioned, along with Mount and [i]Teleport[i].
True enough, but aside from the other points made about magic being elitist*, you have to keep in mind that your average fantasy setting for RPGs has a recorded history going back a couple thousand more years than we have recorded history on Earth.So while the magical option would certainly stunt innovation, especially since those with high Intelligence are probably predisposed towards wizardry, you still have dwarves and elves (and maybe humans) having several thousand more years of civilization with metalworking skills, engineering, etc than we have in real life earth example.
And you also have the demi-human races having their huge lifespans, which would also help to increase innovation. (All you need is that one...
Those are very good points. I guess I just feel like as long as there are enough, or even nearly enough, people around who can do some of these things, that the prevailing line of thought would be, "How can we use magic to do X?" As opposed to, "How can X be accomplished using technology?" So I think you could easily have a scenario in which civilizations carry on quite well for thousands of years without ever attempting to use steam technology, or hot air balloons, or what have you. It isn't necessarily so, but it certainly seems to be one plausible scenario.
but I do love that image of Luke Skywalker looking up at three setting suns in Star Wars...
--Erik
?
Dude. Turn in your nerd card.
Why, is it two?
What am I thinking of that has three suns?
Also, I'm willing to turn in my Star Wars-related nerd card. It expired around "Attack of the Clones" anyway.
--Erik
*Guffaws with laughter.* A great many things expired with the ... prequels <last word said in Vaderesque voice almost visibly dripping with disdain>.
" Perhaps we shall have to find new ways to motivate them. "
Those are very good points. I guess I just feel like as long as there are enough, or even nearly enough, people around who can do some of these things, that the prevailing line of thought would be, "How can we use magic to do X?" As opposed to, "How can X be accomplished using technology?" So I think you could easily have a scenario in which civilizations carry on quite well for thousands of years without ever attempting to use steam technology, or hot air balloons, or what have you. It isn't necessarily so, but it certainly seems to be one plausible scenario.
True enough, but aside from the other points made about magic being elitist*, you have to keep in mind that your average fantasy setting for RPGs has a recorded history going back a couple thousand more years than we have recorded history on Earth.So while the magical option would certainly stunt innovation, especially since those with high Intelligence are probably predisposed towards wizardry, you still have dwarves and elves (and maybe humans) having several thousand more years of civilization with metalworking skills, engineering, etc than we have in real life earth example.
And you also have the demi-human races having their huge lifespans, which would also help to increase innovation. (All you need is that one...
Yeah, I can see it going either way. While I wouldn't want all my fantasy settings to have, say steam engines, I don't mind if *some* of them do, because to me its plausible given the setting.
Why, is it two?
What am I thinking of that has three suns?
Also, I'm willing to turn in my Star Wars-related nerd card. It expired around "Attack of the Clones" anyway.
--Erik
Well, the name of the Musical Score for that scene is "Binary Sunset" after all (my favorite piece of Star Wars music btw) :).
Why, is it two?
What am I thinking of that has three suns?
Also, I'm willing to turn in my Star Wars-related nerd card. It expired around "Attack of the Clones" anyway.
--Erik
Touche, Mssr. Mona.
In any case, the idea of having alien worlds visible in the Golorian Heavens is a good one. The idea had never occured to me before, but it seems like a great way to give the place a really unearthly appearance without having to figure out all the weird lycanthropic ramifications of multiple moons. It's a very slick idea, thanks for offering it.
I'm excited about material coming out for the moon and the green & red planets! It sounds like a lot of fun.
Additionally, you should give J. Sutter the reigns on a few modules or some source material because I'd love to see some "science" in my fantasy. Of course, in an optional or somehow unobtrusive way that wouldn't interfere with others' enjoyment of the setting.
In the game, we can already cure diseases with magic, create light, channel the elements (lightning gun anyone?), etc. Why is there an expectation to stop there?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I had a nice long chat with Sutter yesterday wherein I believe we agreed that a science fantasy planet like the ones we're discussing might actually be a GREAT home for some of the "scientific" adventure ideas he's had, as my suspicion is that players interested in science fantasy don't mind guns and machines as much as people who like to view D&D as a middle ages history simulation.
So, yeah.
--Erik
I had a nice long chat with Sutter yesterday wherein I believe we agreed that a science fantasy planet like the ones we're discussing might actually be a GREAT home for some of the "scientific" adventure ideas he's had, as my suspicion is that players interested in science fantasy don't mind guns and machines as much as people who like to view D&D as a middle ages history simulation.
So, yeah.
--Erik
I don't think those people are playing the same game I've been playing for the past 20 years. ^.^ But one man's meat, and all that...
I have no particular problem with playing in a preindustrial setting. But if it's been stuck in the preindustrial state for a long, long time, I'd want a really good reason why...
I had a nice long chat with Sutter yesterday wherein I believe we agreed that a science fantasy planet like the ones we're discussing might actually be a GREAT home for some of the "scientific" adventure ideas he's had, as my suspicion is that players interested in science fantasy don't mind guns and machines as much as people who like to view D&D as a middle ages history simulation.
So, yeah.
--Erik
Awesome. I look forward to seeing this.
Likewise. A few airskiffs and ray-pistols don't ruin the flavor, they just change it a tad. :)
(Mulls over the possibilities of a War of the Worlds scenario...)
I'm definitely interested in some science-fantasy planetary romance, too, Erik. Just letting you know we are out there!
By the way, if readers are generally interested in "sword and planet" stories a la Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars and Venus novels, I highly recommend Michael Moorcock's City of the Beast, which is a direct homage to Burroughs. Robert E. Howard's Almuric, a classic of the genre from the creator of Conan the Barbarian. Both are early releases in our new Planet Stories line of science fiction and fantasy trade paperbacks. We are really excited to bring these classic works back into print, and I'm really hoping Paizo readers give the line a chance.Thanks!
--Erik
I highly recommend the Samurai Cat series, the first two books in particular, where that genre is mercilessly spoofed, and spoofed again.
Ooooh, yes. Porquas Erntpt, Jad of the Wazoo horde! Ships powered by the Aldo Ray! And Shiro's dad unleashes the most awesome version of gun fu in the history of history itself!
I need to go reread the series now. :)
Having a little "science" and having it far away seems like a great compromise. Now it feels there are four whole worlds to explore ... yipee! A great moment will come for PCs when they arrive on the moon through some arcane portal, or the green and red planets, only to look up towards the heavens and make out a sphere of water ... and land ... and the shape of the Chelish Empire ... what the @#$%! That will be priceless!
My thoughts on the green planet would be to have a "forest moon" idea -one vast emerald swamp, forest and freshwater planet with green, irridescent algae in all of its water. A small alien twist, such as a MINOR increase in gravity, or supernatural fog, or permanent effect on inhabitants and visitors would set it apart.
As for the red planet, a more "dune" idea of reddish sands and volcanic rock. Chlorophyl would need only one change in chemical composition to be red - why not red leaves and plants of every hue? And to make it just alien enough, a black and starlit sky, day and night ... with a brief and blinding sun an hour a day. Don't get caught outside!!!
What about the red & green planet names?
I read a lovely article in the New York Review of Books hilighting how clever JK Rowling's name for Voldemort is (French for theft, flight, death and mold) and was thinking about getting the messageboard readers to try the same with our heavenly bodies.
For the Red Planet I was thinking Marcanus (Mars + Volcano)
For the Green Planet: Verdanis, Vertune or Verdunis (French Green +
Venus)... um, something more feminine to counterpart a more masculine Mars?
Anyone?
Cheers
Just read Seven Swords of Sin, and any campaign setting with a magical nuclear reactor and nanite swarms is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. :) I hope to see more such... oddities of magitech in future Paizo releases.
I would also love to hear some info on the Moon and Planet names, what is the moon's color, general topography, etc.
The more world flavor I can give my players the better!
bump.
names?
the moon is called 'the moon'?
Castrovel (The valley of Castro?-j/k)and ?
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Foolish backwoods Varisian slip kissers! The moon is not a world, and it does not have a topography. It is a gateway, an eye into the heavens that allows otherworldy creatures, both good and evil, miniscule and mighty, to travel to our green lands. Look closely into a pool of moonlight and you shall see the shadows of creatures come across and creatures returned. The moon is a tear in a conjurer's hat and the path all new souls take to the womb. It is the gods' knothole.
A rock? Pish posh! Dreadful nonsense.
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In addition to the moon, which has a very interesting story behind it, two additional inhabited worlds loom large on the horizons of Golarion.
Meaning that, if I look to the sky at night while in the beach in Sandpoint, I'll see a moon, a red planet and a green one...
Do they also appear along with the big yellow ball? or the Sun has a different color?
I love this whole idea, both the theme and the separation.
In addition to the moon, which has a very interesting story behind it, two additional inhabited worlds loom large on the horizons of Golarion. The green planet, which I'm currently calling Castrovel, is covered with swamps and forests and weird gaseous seas. The red planet doesn't have a name yet, but it will use Edgar Rice Burroughs and Otis Adelbert Kline's Mars novels as a basis in the same way Golarion proper is based on pulp sword and sorcery. Psionics will certainly be common on Castrovel, and perhaps on the red planet as well.
It will be possible to travel there by thought, or on some sort of beam, or whatever. Each of these worlds will certainly include airships, but it remains to be seen whether or not you can take a trip between worlds on them.
We plan to publish at least one GameMastery Module on each of these worlds, and if there is a genuine audience for this type of play I could be very easily convinced to schedule more and larger products in this vein.
By the way, if readers are generally interested in "sword and planet" stories a la Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars and Venus novels, I highly recommend Michael Moorcock's City of the Beast, which is a direct homage to Burroughs. Robert E. Howard's Almuric, a classic of the genre from the creator of Conan the Barbarian. Both are early releases in our new Planet Stories line of science fiction and fantasy trade paperbacks. We are really excited to bring these classic works back into print, and I'm really hoping Paizo readers give the line a chance.
Thanks!
--Erik
It is a gateway, an eye into the heavens
I KNOW, right? Last month Belmer's daughter said she'd seen the moon wink at her. She said it took a full month to do it, but I believe her.
You hear the story of them goblins what went to prove their bravery by spitting in the eye of the great moon god? They all built up their courage, went to the top of a tall lump, and spit at the moon. They cavorted for a couple seconds at their bravery but went inside when it started raining. The story says they claimed that was the moon god crying, but I just think it's a bad idea to stand anywhere where a score of goblins are spitting in the air.
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It is a gateway, an eye into the heavensI KNOW, right? Last month Belmer's daughter said she'd seen the moon wink at her. She said it took a full month to do it, but I believe her.
You hear the story of them goblins what went to prove their bravery by spitting in the eye of the great moon god? They all built up their courage, went to the top of a tall lump, and spit at the moon. They cavorted for a couple seconds at their bravery but went inside when it started raining. The story says they claimed that was the moon god crying, but I just think it's a bad idea to stand anywhere where a score of goblins are spitting in the air.
Best joke-post ever!
Or the Seven Runelords of Sin eh? ;-)
Your mad insights must be Malkavian in nature! :D
Hey now! I buy your books which pays your salary. That means you work for me, right?Er... that philosophy works for elected officials, but not employees of companies. :D
Really? Because there's a really cute secretary working for the city here. I'll have to order my "employee" to go out we me! ;-)
Oh, concerning the topic you're actually disgussing:
A wee bit of sci-fi thrown in is acceptable, but it shouldn't be a big part of the setting. As much as I like Roland of Gilead, I don't want him strolling around on Golarion.
Really? Because there's a really cute secretary working for the city here. I'll have to order my "employee" to go out we me! ;-)lol, only if she was elected...?
She works for a guy who's elected. She wouldn't work there if the other guy was elected. Maybe. Well, probably not. You had to destroy this, didn't you?