Creative Director
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I suppose I should have gone into more detail about how the goblins pulled this stunt off... but basically, they managed to knock the horse unconscious in the initial fight (at great cost to their raiding party). The goblins were just as surprised they were able to accomplish that as anyone else, and working together, threw it into the cart. It took probably a dozen goblins, but they're persistent when it comes to setting up horses for torture. When they got to Thistletop, they probably had to abandon the wagon and carry or drag the horse; a tough job, but not impossible for a band of a dozen or more goblins eager to see their chief kill a real live horse. A on-its-side horse can fit through the Thistletop tunnels fine, especially if it's unconscious. And the rope bridge can be reinforced and tied off to be more stable with a little bit of work—the goblins keep it loose most of the time, but when it comes to getting horses into the fort, they can reinforce it.
All of it is basically a fantastically bad idea in the end, of course. The idea I was trying to get across is that goblins are very industrious when it comes to some ideas, but have a hard time looking forward to anticipate the likely outcome of their plans. Such as bringing a still alive horse into their home...
As for the wagon... it ended up in the same place most discarded wooden materials do in goblin society. They lit it on fire and danced around it while it burned.
Gotta love those little buggers.
Stupid little freaks. :)
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The whole story about it strikes me as odd (and apparently they often bring horses to the island)???
I do understand your concern, but this did make me titter.
This island is actually the head of a giant statue, used as an observation post in an ancient war. It contains a trapped demon, someone with angelic blood who has magically corrupted herself, giant lizards and goblins.
And the oddest thing is the horse?!
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No one said they had an easy time of it. Pathfinder goblins seem tenacious and exceptionally prone to being caught up in the moment of unwise plans, however.
Speaking as someone who grew up around horses, I can say that if the horse is out cold, trussed up to keep the rear legs folded and the forelegs splayed, it takes up a great deal less space than an alert, standing-upright horse would. As I doubt the goblins would be taking much care with the creature's health, dragging it right through tight corners of the brambles without concern for the side effects, such as an angry druid. (No doubt some of the ones who had that bright idea got fed to the bunyip...)
The part that bugs me is the ropes. Even tied to quadruple their weight, they really shouldn't hold a heavy warhorse - that's essentially akin to a Clydesdale in terms of bodymass, I'd think...
And the oddest thing is the horse?!
I know this whole thread is filled with spoilers and it's marked as a GM reference, but maybe marking the rest of your post with spoiler tags wouldn't be a bad idea.
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I know this whole thread is filled with spoilers and it's marked as a GM reference, but maybe marking the rest of your post with spoiler tags wouldn't be a bad idea.
And the oddest thing is the horse?!
aw, dammit.
you're right - but the hour has passed and i can no longer edit my post.
Is the postmaster general about - if you're reading this please do the honourable thing :D
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Creative Director
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The title of the thread says "GM Reference" so I would think that spoilers are expected...
ANYway... getting the horse off the island likely requires that the bridge be reinforced, which basically equates to simply disabling the trap. So you could reinforce the bridge with a DC 15 Disable Device check (since the DC is below 20, and since Disable Device is usable untrained, you don't even need a rogue to do this; it's just an Intelligence check for someone who has no ranks). Most people could take 20 on this check and the bridge'll be fine for leading or even riding the horse across it... although you should probably also throw in a Handle Animal check or Ride check in this case.
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I found the level 2 druidic spell Reduce animal, which could ba a good way for the PCs to get him out of the low tunnels.
I would say Gogmurt could have used a similar tactics, while an uncoucious horse could probably be considered "willing". Otherwise, he could have charmed the horse to make it willing to be reduced.
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The title of the thread says "GM Reference" so I would think that spoilers are expected...
ANYway... getting the horse off the island likely requires that the bridge be reinforced, which basically equates to simply disabling the trap. So you could reinforce the bridge with a DC 15 Disable Device check (since the DC is below 20, and since Disable Device is usable untrained, you don't even need a rogue to do this; it's just an Intelligence check for someone who has no ranks). Most people could take 20 on this check and the bridge'll be fine for leading or even riding the horse across it... although you should probably also throw in a Handle Animal check or Ride check in this case.
Besides, it's a great bit of gobliny texture. You can take too deep of a hit off the realism crack pipe trying to think this all the way through.
To illustrate:
My 10 year old, "Hold it Daddy. How did the horse get across that bridge?"
My eight year old responded, "The goblins did some crazy goblin thing. They're big DUMMIES. Where's that punk Tsuto?"
Etc. etc.
By the way, Kill Gull. Awesome. My boys got SOOOO mad at the goblins for that.
I didn't find it in the threat and it's no big thing either but I found that the Goblin Warchanter (pg. 12) has been given a melee attack with a dogslicer while his statblock includes a short sword under "Other Gear". I assume the short sword is meant to be said dogslicer.
Technically, a goblin warchanter isn't proficient with a dogslicer but is proficient with a short sword. For my campaign I ruled that the goblin warchanter PC could be proficient for free with the dogslicer, since it seemed so much more in character.
Maybe during the creation of the stat block there was some disagreement over whether standard Pathfinder goblin warchanters should be given the extra proficiency for free.
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Creative Director
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I didn't find it in the threat and it's no big thing either but I found that the Goblin Warchanter (pg. 12) has been given a melee attack with a dogslicer while his statblock includes a short sword under "Other Gear". I assume the short sword is meant to be said dogslicer.Technically, a goblin warchanter isn't proficient with a dogslicer but is proficient with a short sword. For my campaign I ruled that the goblin warchanter PC could be proficient for free with the dogslicer, since it seemed so much more in character.
Maybe during the creation of the stat block there was some disagreement over whether standard Pathfinder goblin warchanters should be given the extra proficiency for free.
More likely, we were all scrambling to get Burnt Offerings and the player's guide all out the door at once.
The best solution: All goblins are automatically proficient with dogslicers.
The PCs approached Thistletop last night by boat, timing it during a worship service after dark, avoiding guards. One noticed the variation in the tide and discovered the sea cave with the giant helmet, and after some consultation they sent a scout swimming in. She looked around, saw everything and decided to take back a sample piece of loot to the rest of the boaters. Then, of course, the hermit crab attacked.
It was scary, but everyone was so impressed with the imagery that we just stopped the game for a minute while they praised the adventure. We couldn't continue until I'd promised to log onto the boards today and tell the author (James Jacobs) how much they loved that encounter.
You rock, Mr Jacobs, sir!
Question about Gresgurt: It says he's a ranger but no favored enemy is listed. I'm assuming that it's either dogs, horses, or longshanks. Anyone have thoughts on this?
other then being named, Gresgurt is just like all the other goblin commandos which would make his favored enemy: Animals (this can be found in the goblin commando write up on page 13).
(No reason you couldn't change it to humans or anything else though... just remember to apply the bonueses when appropriate.)
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Creative Director
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Yeah, and also keep in mind that this is pretty much an instant kill for a low level PC. It should be tough for the goblins to pull this off if even 1 PC is still up and fighting. Fortunately, just the idea that the goblins are trying to pull this tactic off should be enough to put the fear of fire into the party and should be enough to get across the goblins' devious evil; you don't actually NEED to murderize a PC for it to do its job.
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Yeah, and also keep in mind that this is pretty much an instant kill for a low level PC. It should be tough for the goblins to pull this off if even 1 PC is still up and fighting. Fortunately, just the idea that the goblins are trying to pull this tactic off should be enough to put the fear of fire into the party and should be enough to get across the goblins' devious evil; you don't actually NEED to murderize a PC for it to do its job.
Yeah, I had 3 of them successfully pick up a downed PC and bring him to the furnace, then the PCs noticed their friend about to burn and the fact they couldn't reach him in time... so they healed him (he'd already stabilized)
If you want the PCs to acquire an inconvenient girlfriend, I think Lyrie the wizard is a much better choice. It's a stretch, but workable:
Picture, if you will:
The PCs defeat Lyrie, knock her out, and take her prisoner. Even though she tries to fight to the death because the killed Tsuto. Who wasn't really her boyfriend anyway. She is dejected and forlorn, but the PCs are kind to her during questioning (like I said, it's a stretch). Then the whole Stockholm Sydrome thing kicks in, and she falls for one of the PCs.
So they probably have to take her to jail, but maybe she pines for the PC and asks him to visit her. Maybe she gets out, because they don't know about the murders in Magnimar, and the only other thing she did was toast a few goblins. So she gets out of jail and tries to turn over a new leaf and pursue a relationship with a good aligned hero. And she'll probably want her new boyfriend to get her wand and spellbook back from the party's arcane caster. Because you KNOW the PC won't pass up that loot!
So you wind up with a PC who has a Chaotic Evil girlfriend. And let's face it, in real life, we've all seen that before, right?
Excellent idea, I was able to pull this off with my group after they defeated Lyrie without killing her. She managed to talk them into letting her live and even keep her stuff! Well, she had to lie and pretend to be a Pathfinder for real and the let the wizard learn from her spell book. She's now trying to endear herself to the wizard. :)
I waited to the last minute to ask this question, so hopefully someone can chime in.
I start my Saturday afternoon session (12-29-07) with the party walking into Malfeshknor's prison room.
Here's my question: Binding as a spell can be set up a couple different ways.. hence the confusion.
Does, or is, the act of opening the door with the Arcane Lock the condition that actually frees Malfeshknor from the room (and therefore be able to pursue the party into other chambers)?
Or is Malfeshknor still stuck in the room, even if the door is open?
If he's still stuck even with the door open: For Extra Credit Bonus Helpfulness, what criteria would free Malfeshknor from the Binding?
I might have him try to tempt the party. Not very Barghest like, but after 10,000 years, you might try bargining. I doubt they'd go for it, but I'm exploring options.
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Here's my question: Binding as a spell can be set up a couple different ways.. hence the confusion.
Does, or is, the act of opening the door with the Arcane Lock the condition that actually frees Malfeshknor from the room (and therefore be able to pursue the party into other chambers)?
Or is Malfeshknor still stuck in the room, even if the door is open?
If he's still stuck even with the door open: For Extra Credit Bonus Helpfulness, what criteria would free Malfeshknor from the Binding?
I might have him try to tempt the party. Not very Barghest like, but after 10,000 years, you might try bargining. I doubt they'd go for it, but I'm exploring options.
The Binding spell that was used was the Hedged Prison version. No release conditions were specified, so you're going to need an Antimagic Field or Mage's Disjunction to free him.
The Binding spell that was used was the Hedged Prison version. No release conditions were specified, so you're going to need an Antimagic Field or Mage's Disjunction to free him.
Great, thanks for the link Tbug! I tried a search but I evidently was misspelling his name.
My pleasure.
Hi guys!
Language question: Thassilonian is described as the language of ancient magic. Which language do arcane casters use/need for their spells - Draconic or Thassilonian? Is Thassilonian possible as a PC language? Are there still people speaking it and how could a PC have learned it?
Thanks!
As far as I can tell, speaking Thassilonian is like speaking Ancient Egyptian. Only scholars who've carefully studied it can do it, and they're probably struggling every step of the way. It's certainly not required to cast magic.
Another thing that's come up while reading PF 1 to 4:
Is the name "Thassilon" itself common knowledge, even if even the slightest details about that realm are not? For example, would your run-of-the-mill PC know that the mysterious ruins that dot the landscape are of "Thassilonian" origin, or would he just remember that they are the remnant of "an empire that's been dust for a long time"?
Just curious, since many of the Ecology style articles feature the name, and I'm wondering if these are safe for my players to read.
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Creative Director
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Hi guys!
Language question: Thassilonian is described as the language of ancient magic. Which language do arcane casters use/need for their spells - Draconic or Thassilonian? Is Thassilonian possible as a PC language? Are there still people speaking it and how could a PC have learned it?
Thanks!
Magic in Golarion works the same as in the core rules: it uses the Draconic language as a base. Thassilonian is simply an ancient language.
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Creative Director
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Another thing that's come up while reading PF 1 to 4:
Is the name "Thassilon" itself common knowledge, even if even the slightest details about that realm are not? For example, would your run-of-the-mill PC know that the mysterious ruins that dot the landscape are of "Thassilonian" origin, or would he just remember that they are the remnant of "an empire that's been dust for a long time"?
Just curious, since many of the Ecology style articles feature the name, and I'm wondering if these are safe for my players to read.
The name "Thassilon" is probably about as common knowledge as "Mu" or "Lemuria" in our world, but in Varisia, the Hold of Belkzen, and other modern regions that now exist where Thassilon did long ago, that common knowledge is probably about the same as we have for "Atlantis." A fair number of folks know the name, and know some legends, but those legends are vague and often false.
But yeah... there's enormous monoliths all over Varisia. They can't be ignored, so the name "Thassilon" is pretty well known. The first few adventures in Runelords were a little weird there, since we skewed things a little bit more obscure regarding Thassilon since, for the first groups playing Runelords hot off the press, both Thassilon AND Varisia are equally mysterious. By enhancing the mystery of Thassilon like we did, the hope was to make it MORE mysterious than Varisia.
Now that Golarion's pretty well established, players who start up a new Runelords game already have a lot of background material on Varisia and Golarion. In which case, you can throw the word Thassilon around with more ease.
Thanks for clearing that up! :)
My players have gone to Thistletop twice and retreated twice. They were slow to get below the Glassworks, so Ameiko and Tsuto are both at Thistletop. I crave opinions on two issues:
1. Since Brunkel (the Thistletop jailer) survived in my game, would Ameiko be around longer? It's currently three days after the PCs received the crumpled parchment from Bethana. The adventure says that "if the PCs don't rescue [Ameiko] in a few days, she is eventually sacrificed to Lamashtu". (p. 24) There was a religious ceremony today, and the next one's in three days. Maybe she was just tortured or something?
2. How is Tsuto going to react to Nualia sacrificing his sister? Granted he's smitten, and he just fought with Ameiko, but that doesn't mean he wants to watch his sister get brutally murdered (or even tortured). I know he's insane and we can pretty much go in any direction with him as a result, but aside from his reaching out to her in an attempt to get her to join him in hating Sandpoint have we seen any sign of brotherly affection from him?
Thanks.
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Creative Director
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You should probably skew things so that the PCs have at least one chance to save Ameiko, no matter how long they take to get to her (as long as they ARE trying to get to her... if they instead decide to go to Magnimar to shop and then get into some crazy adventure against a bunch of graverobbers or something there... Ameiko's doomed).
One option, of course, is that seeing what a bad place Ameiko's in, Tsuto has a change of heart and tries to save his sister. Maybe he hides her in Thistletop somewhere and sets up a false set of clues to make it look to Nualia like Ameiko's escaped? That certainly introduces a new level of complexity to Thistletop for the PCs to play around with!
I really like the hiding idea. Thanks! I think I'll also have Tsuto lure one of his childhood "friends" (actually someone he's always hated, and firmly established in our campaign already) to Thistletop so that his sweetie can have someone else to sacrifice. Maybe he could make some sort of deal with Orik that he'll give Lyrie some sort of permanent brush-off (theoretically sending her fleeing into Orik's waiting arms) if the mercenary will protect his sister and possibly sneak her out of Thistletop.
I agree about giving them a chance to save Ameiko. They haven't been the brightest in their approaches, but they keep trying.
SECRET HINT POST: Cool, since I'm 99% sure that Ameiko's going to play a pretty important role in a future Adventure Path...
Hmmm.. I have a PC that is trying to date her. I'm not inclined to shut him down if he role-plays it out and does a fair job.
This group has pretty much signed on to play out future AP. They like their Pathfinder. Yay.
I'm not asking for future secrets you haven't fully developed yet-
But, here's a request/suggestion for that future AP when you do develop it; include a sidebar that touches on the 'legacy' effect of having characters from a previous AP involved with Ameiko.
In my case I announced that after the Runelords AP is over, the PCs will essentially be retired, and we make new ones for the next AP. And even though the APs can be played in any order and don't interelate in offical text- since I could have the same exact players with new characters, I plan on having some continuity just within my games. Since it's the same campaign world, it should be the same Ameiko.
Think it over!
Really basic question about weapons in stat blocks in ROTR #1. As an example on page 28 in Koruvus' stat block his longsword says "+1 longsword +3 (1d8+5, 19-20)". What are the +1 before the weapon name and the +3 after the weapon name for?
+1 is the enchantment bonus; +3 is his total attack bonus with that weapon.
+1 is the enchantment bonus; +3 is his total attack bonus with that weapon.
Wow, so Elyrium's "+1 returning dagger +12" has a total attack bunus of +12! That little things gonna get thrown all over my party!
Thanks for the answer Revan!
The Quasit and the Goblin Chief were among the toughest fights my players had..
(Double Crits from the figher and cleric cut Malfeshknor down quickly, unfortunately for him)
Whoa, does she really have a +12? I wouldn't be surprised if that was a typo...on the other hand she is a 'bonus boss'...
+1 is the enchantment bonus; +3 is his total attack bonus with that weapon.Wow, so Elyrium's "+1 returning dagger +12" has a total attack bunus of +12! That little things gonna get thrown all over my party!
Thanks for the answer Revan!
No; Erylium has a +12 to hit with that weapon (her BAB plus stat bonuses plus size bonuses plus the weapon's +1 bonus). A PC will have their own BAB, stats, etc. and then the weapon is +1 on top of that.
Mary
+1 is the enchantment bonus; +3 is his total attack bonus with that weapon.Wow, so Elyrium's "+1 returning dagger +12" has a total attack bunus of +12! That little things gonna get thrown all over my party!
Thanks for the answer Revan!
No; Erylium has a +12 to hit with that weapon (her BAB plus stat bonuses plus size bonuses plus the weapon's +1 bonus). A PC will have their own BAB, stats, etc. and then the weapon is +1 on top of that.
Mary
Understood, what I meant was Elyrium is going to throw that dagger all over my party. Thier first encounter with her I was only using a +1 to hit against them (lucky for them).
I know if they end op getting the dagger it's just their individual BAB +1.
When the PCs rescue Ameiko, with her father now deceased, she is the owner of the Glassworks as well as a large manor and an inn. Any ideas on what she does after the PCs clear out the Glassworks? Does she sell her father's business? Does she move into the manor or sell it too? Has anyone done anything interesting with this part of the story? I like to add side stories for the PCs on what NPCs have done while they were gone to keep the place alive and changing.
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Creative Director
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When the PCs rescue Ameiko, with her father now deceased, she is the owner of the Glassworks as well as a large manor and an inn. Any ideas on what she does after the PCs clear out the Glassworks? Does she sell her father's business? Does she move into the manor or sell it too? Has anyone done anything interesting with this part of the story? I like to add side stories for the PCs on what NPCs have done while they were gone to keep the place alive and changing.
Yup; Ameiko does indeed become the legal inheritor of the Glassworks and the family mansion. As I've hinted elsewhere, Ameiko's very likely going to be one of the main NPCs in an upcoming Adventure Path in Pathfinder (one that's still a few years away, though); in that adventure, she'll start off as one of Sandpoint's more successful business owners/nobles; in other words, she does indeed keep the glassworks in the family.
Thank you. That's exactly what I needed. And with that in mind, Ameiko will drift away a bit from my PCs.
We had her go down to Magnimar (with PC escort) to look for a husband among the Minkai expat community. Her sense of duty finally got the better of her once she was the only one to uphold her family name. The PCs met her and her new husband later, and helped with getting the Glassworks running again--between #3 and #4.
(She has a starring role in our heavily modified version of #5, unfortunately for her; I'm not sure she will be in good shape for her planned appearance in a later AP....)
Mary
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This question's in hindsight, but I may as well ask: Is taking a full -10 for Mafeshnekor's Power Attack feat not the best idea for party longevity? Adding that to his Mass Bull's Strength and Rage spells, he has a huge strength bonus, and, as far as I can tell, the +10 damage applies to all of his attacks as they are natural weapons.
Anyway, the fact that he was under the effects of rage as per the writeup influenced me to do so, resulting in an almost-TPK and the barghest locked back up again. Heh. I always wish in hindsight that I would have made the villain speak a little more, but oh well!