I doubt the point is any particular word but more style and word choice. The author could have easily done things differently and kept the impact.
However, literature is filled with uses of foul language, often for the express purpose of communicating the viewpoint of a specific character, or for other literary purposes. Mark Twain's use of language, and particularly racially inflamatory language, in Huck Finn for example. The use of that language, as well as the development of the relationship between Huck and Jim makes a point about the common perception of african-americans in the time period. In Of Mice and Men, Steinbeck uses the language that migrant workers of the period used to both immerse the reader in the subject matter, and as a tool to show the personality of the characters. Those are just two examples.
One word: Prozac.
I find myself agreeing with you... The Nine Hells are surely freezing over. *Grin*
Ok, my two coppers on this is as follows: If any parent truely believes that their child isn't being exposed to language far worse than this, you are dilusional. I remember how Myself and my friends talked when we were EIGHT! and getting on to a child about their language teaches them one thing: Don't cuss in front of me!
This backwards morality is what sickens me about our culture. It's Ok to slaughter the goblin vilage down to the last child, just don't step in cow $#!+ when you do? Children are exposed to graphic violence all the time, but Gods forbid someone show a breast at the superbowl or the whole frigging world comes to a halt! (And I was watching that Superbowl. the flash happened so fast, I wasn't even sure I saw it. Thankfully we have a useless Media that replayed it like it was the towers falling for two F***ing weeks!)
If you children aren't mature enough to deal with profanity, then they sure the hell aren't mature enough to deal with the violence. If you don't want your kids to read Dragon, hey, how about you try something novle and be a parent! It's your job to filter what you child reads, not societys.
I'm going to go take a hot shower now, and see if I can get the vein in my head to stop throbbing.
Hah! Woo, I knew we could make it to page 4. We just needed a good push over the edge. Yah mule, yah...yah!
Oh shoot; I should probably contribute something here.
Well, one could point out that thanks to slow news days, the media has taken yellow journalism to an all time high. People just don't know what to get worked up over anymore, unless someone falls off the stage on American Idle [sic].
An old man was stabbed down the street...yawn...OMG'zors, someone in Dragon used the "baconfish" word! *GASP* Obviously you've contributed to the moral decay of society and should be ashamed of yourselves. Consider yourselves duly chastised. I hearby flagellate myself for overuse of contractions and passive sentences (not that I plan on letting up).
This thread has me laughing my ass off.
Tim, Sebastian is our loveable BASTARD on these boards. I think he may be the original unfrozen caveman lawyer. Surprisingly, he digs the GEICO caveman ad campaign.
To the other posters, I think Tim and Erik have cleared the air. No need to beat a dead horse.
bad language? really?
i buy... dragon for the pictures...
Really? Because that's why I buy Playbo... er, I mean, that's why I buy National Geographic. Yeah, that's it.
Surprisingly, he digs the GEICO caveman ad campaign.
So does ABC. ;)
Lucky the OP didn't notice the word "b*#++*#s" in last months Dragon ("The Privateers" review). Or is that not a cuss word in the US?
nope, most americans have no idea what that means. :) although the language filter did catch it...
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You know, I glanced at the story and read the first few paragraphs and completely failed to notice the expletive. Either I simply use such words as part of my natural rap (man) or it isn't really that big a deal. Or I'm a lousy reader.
By the way, what is nappy-headed? Nappy-headed where I come from suggests wearing a towling turban, but I suspect I am missing the cultural subtelty.
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nope, most americans have no idea what that means. :) although the language filter did catch it...
But they don't filter out "arse"!
Interestingly, what is "rude" in the English language varies somewhat between continents. I am led to believe that a certain word beginning with "w" and rhyming with "anchor" is considered fairly mild in the US, but is actually pretty offensive in the UK. Likewise, the above expeltive relating to the hind portions is fairly rude, whereas I suspect the American version is also pretty mild - my sister was told by a complete (and presumably lecherous) stranger that she had a "great ass", and wasn't with her donkey at the time. I can't think of any contra-examples, but I'm sure they exist, probably in a religious context where the UK is really not bothered but more people in the US are.
By the way, what is nappy-headed? Nappy-headed where I come from suggests wearing a towling turban, but I suspect I am missing the cultural subtelty.
"Nappy-headed" refers to the tendency of most Africans and people of African-descent to have very tightly-wound naturally curly hair. i'm not quite sure what the definition of "nappy" is, but some black people use it alternately as a term of endearment for their hair or as a complaint against how difficult it is to manage their hair when compared to a person of a different racial background. when white Americans use this term to describe black people, it is often derogatory, however. (not as serious as the N-word, but you get the idea.)
"Ho" is a shortened form of "whore", which of course is never a nice thing to call a woman.
so, when a middle aged white radio host refers to a group of young, college-educated black women as "nappy-headed hos", it would not be hard to imagine why people might take offense to that. :)
I am led to believe that a certain word beginning with "w" and rhyming with "anchor" is considered fairly mild in the US, but is actually pretty offensive in the UK.
yes, calling an American a "bloody wanker" is not likely to inspire much ire. ;) some might be confused by it, many would realize it's some sort of insult, but few are likely to be anywhere near as affected by it as a Brit might.
also, i don't think "bugger" means much to the average Yank either. ;)
I officially label this thread the Dog's B$&#&+&s (which I've been led to believe is a good thing, as opposed to simply b@@@!!~s, which is...bad..somehow)!
Here's the link to the study from the BBC I mentioned earlier. Warning, severe language enclosed:Delete Expletives?
Bugger and wanker are pretty low on the offense list in the States, but if you really want to confuse an American, call one of us a "Chav." No one knows what the crap that is over here...
As an Australian i can pretty much say we are pretty open when it comes to swearing. S#@t, F&(k can be commonplace words in a sentence. As for my son (2yrs old) i guess he picks up the language (my wife and i do swear, me more than occasionally i guess... the words are just so flexable they fit any situation! :) ) but i believe it is up to my wife and i to correct him. It would be naive for me to think he doesnt know the words exist or to a small extent what they mean, so i teach him that they are inapproprite for him to say. Yes we did have a week where he thought it funny to say the f word, and yes it was slightly embarresing, but he now hasen't said it in 3 months. Its funny to see how different each country reacts to swearing, here even our ad campaigns have them "So where the bloody hell are ya!"
Is it irony that "shit" is censored by the software on the website?
To add my tuppence to the debate, I generally dislike seeing "modern" language in fantasy stories. However, sometimes it is appropriate. A survey of sci-fi and fantasy from the past shows a wide variety of crude langugae, sometimes from very well-regarded authors.
Of course, I also appreciate when an author develops his own words as slang. That goes for game designers as well too. I may have despised Planescape's slang, but I adored (and still pepper my speech) with Shadowrun slurs.
Ultimately, I find the occasional swear in an article inoffensive. Sometimes it really fits the literature; sometimes it doesn't (or is an example of poor writing). But when it is rare, it is acceptable.
As for standards at Paizo, well, they filter the word on the website, so I hardly think their standards are dropping.
nope, most americans have no idea what that means. :) although the language filter did catch it...The filters caught it because at least one American (i.e., me) knows what it means and put it in as a filterable word when we set up these boards. :)
Someone edumacate me! I still can't figure out what word it is...
I'm sorry, Anna. I got distracted once you mentioned breasts...
:P :P :P
Director of Sales
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Someone edumacate me! I still can't figure out what word it is...nope, most americans have no idea what that means. :) although the language filter did catch it...The filters caught it because at least one American (i.e., me) knows what it means and put it in as a filterable word when we set up these boards. :)
B@*~&**s.
As in "Nevermind the B%**&!~s, Here's the Sex Pistols".
Warning: Evidently, that album title (and, therefore, link) is offensive if you're British.
Contributor
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Someone edumacate me! I still can't figure out what word it is...
Now that I go back into the thread, I see the lads were talkin' about a different offensive British slang term that starts with "b" than the one I was thinking of. I think Jeff Alvarez probably submitted that one to the filter, as he knows many things about international swearing.
The one Cos and the others are talking about, Zherog, is right here.
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I am led to believe that a certain word beginning with "w" and rhyming with "anchor" is considered fairly mild in the US, but is actually pretty offensive in the UK.yes, calling an American a "bloody wanker" is not likely to inspire much ire. ;) some might be confused by it, many would realize it's some sort of insult, but few are likely to be anywhere near as affected by it as a Brit might.
also, i don't think "bugger" means much to the average Yank either. ;)
James Marsters said 'b*$+&!#s,' 'bugger' and 'wanker' in almost every episode of the unstoppable Buffy, and you might be hard pressed to find a 9-90 year old who hasn't seen the show, which (I know, long sentence) comes on something like four channels at all hours of the day...didn't really know these were 'bad words'...
...but after previewing this post, I now know that 'b%%~@!*s' must be a pretty 'bad word'.
I must use it more often.
The one Cos and the others are talking about, Zherog, is right here.
Never knew that had... unsavory meanings. I, too, must start using it more! :D
So what word were you talking about, Mike?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Interestingly, what is "rude" in the English language varies somewhat between continents.
You remind me of a trip I took to the UK where one of our companions went barhopping and lost her... well, in the UK, I gather it's called a "hip pack." I was with her the next day when she went back to the bars, and the horrified/amused reaction she got from bar staff when she asked if anyone had seen her "fanny pack," well... it was classic. After about three bars I finally told her that over there that's a fairly rude term for female genitals.
Contributor
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The one Cos and the others are talking about, Zherog, is right here.
Really? I assumed it was this one or this one. As in never mind the...
Slight difference.
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Using the word s!%~ to describe feces isn't cussing. It's crude, it's vulgar, it's colorful (if you feel like being charitable), it's almost certainly impolite. But it isn't cussing, it's accurate English. Anglo-Saxon, if you wish to be precise, as opposed to the polite Latinate. (To digress briefly, most "rude" words in the English language are Anglo-Saxon. Just a little legacy of Roman imperialism.)
More likely a legacy of Norman imperialism, since they spoke Norman French, a latinate language, and had taken over an Anglo-Saxon kingdom.
you might be hard pressed to find a 9-90 year old who hasn't seen the show
/raises hand.
Thankfully, I've never seen an episode of Angel, that Youngish Superman spin-off, Friends, or American Idol either.
Imagine all the pop culture references I'd be missing if I bothered to hang out with the people that did.... the horror! ;)
Speaking of god-awful programming, what do those of you in the UK think of the title for the new movie, "Knocked Up?" Very different connotations over here, somewhat more is implied with the visit...
Really? I assumed it was this one or this one. As in never mind the... Slight difference.
On a side note, I'm very impressed that the language filter not only gets multiple spellings of..well...I'm sure it has been written plenty now, BUT it also managed to nab the link. Not too shabby.
Also, at least one of the people in this thread has been busy updating the Wikipedia entry on profanity, lol!
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you might be hard pressed to find a 9-90 year old who hasn't seen the show/raises hand.
Thankfully, I've never seen an episode of Angel, that Youngish Superman spin-off, Friends, or American Idol either.
Imagine all the pop culture references I'd be missing if I bothered to hang out with the people that did.... the horror! ;)
Sorry to make a culturally-biased remark. I loved both Angel and Buffy. I don't know what I'd do without my weekly dose of Smallville, as for AI, I watched something like three episodes over in Iraq, other than that I'm not interested, and I don't get that channel on the dish up here in Alaska. Friends...I've never made it through a single episode, and really can't stand the show...I can't believe it lasted ten years, but then, I don't really enjoy any of the 30-min sitcoms.
Was I the only person who was entertained when the Planescape line frequently used the words "berk" and "sod"? I even wrote a letter to TSR (remember them?) at the time, saying that I'd rather have the demons and devils back than this kind of profanity. Hey, now I think about it, it must have worked!
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have an immature troll to feed...
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James Marsters said 'b%@&&@~s,' 'bugger' and 'wanker' in almost every episode of the unstoppable Buffy, and you might be hard pressed to find a 9-90 year old who hasn't seen the show, which (I know, long sentence) comes on something like four channels at all hours of the day...didn't really know these were 'bad words'...
...but after previewing this post, I now know that 'b%@&&@~s' must be a pretty 'bad word'.
Actually, in the lexicon of rudery in the UK, b$##&~~s is probably not that rude, compared with shit, f%~% and so on. A mild expletive, not one to use in front of your mother, but not pulsating with rudeness. "W-anchor" is a lot worse, since it is effectively an insult, and "bugger" similar to b++~+&%s.
For interest, here's the list of words in the research undertaken by the BBC, ranked in order of how "severe" the interviewees perceived them to be.
WARNING: This spoiler contains strong language that may offend some.
Cunt
Motherf!%*er
F#!!
Wanker
Nigger
Bastard
Prick
B%&!$&#s
A+!$+~!!
Paki
Shag
Whore
Twat
Piss off
Spastic
Slag
Shit
Dickhead
Pissed off
Arse
Bugger
Balls
Jew
Sodding
Jesus Christ
Crap
Bloody
God
So what does "Knocked up" mean in the UK? Here in the states it means a woman is pregnant.
And "shag" is an offensive word over there?
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To knock someone up, in it's innocent version, simply means to go and visit someone (i.e. knock on the door). Alternatively, knocked up could also mean beaten up (i.e "That car looks a bit knocked up"). But it also means to get someone pregnant.
Shag I would term vulgar rather than rude per se - not one to say in front of the vicar, maybe, but unlikely to start a fight. There was an American group which, in all innocence, decided to invent a dance called "the shag". So we had the song, a hit in the UK, "There Ain't Nothing Like Shagging" by this group (the name of them escapes me), with the immortal lines:
There ain't nothin' like shagging
It's something you can't get tired of
Not entirely true, I suspect.....
Plus, of course, shag is an entirely normal term when discussing carpet.
It is possible to get carried away with the profanity filters: in (admittedly, fairly obscure - I didn't find out about this meaning until I was about 30) English slang, "flange" can be a reference to female privvy parts, and one email profanity filter at a place I worked didn't like like it. However, the term is pretty difficult to avoid in an engineering firm, for example.
Has anyone in this post mentioned JJ's softcore porn adventure in Dungeon 95--our intro to scuttlecove, wasn't it?
Why stop there? Eventually, Dragon will just be hardcore snuff porno, which will erode society's morales to the point where we fling feces at each other and rape children rather than saying hello and being friendly. Yes sir, here it is, the final downfall and corruption of Western Society - Dragon printed the word s*%@. All is lost!!! Nooooo!!!!
Woo hoo hoo, finally the d20 snuff periodical I've been searching for! I'll even pick up a copy for Tim Kosinski so he doesn't have to trouble himself with it.
That all said, and yes I realize I, too, am contributing to it, there's always at least one person who wants to see what sort of ruckus they can cause being all up in arms about whatever "salacious" content was printed that month, be it a "racy" cover, "explicit" content or, gods forbid, some fiction (for those who hate fiction and swear they won't buy another magazine that has a story in it instead of more game information.) Not only do I doubt the sincerity of Tim Kosinski's concern I doubt any and all posts that are thrown down here or any other forum in regards to the indecencies being heaped upon us all. Instead I find the posts (of Tim's and all others) to be nothing more than attention-makers for those who've nothing else to stir a pot with. Besides, we don't need saving and if we did I'm pretty sure my Will is good enough to make it on it's own.
Now if you'll excuse me the latest issue of Chicks in Chainmail who Scream Expletives & Massacre Kittens just came in the mail and I've got an enjoyable afternoon of reading ahead of me.
- Chris Shadowens
Using the word s#@! to describe feces isn't cussing. It's crude, it's vulgar, it's colorful...
...and yet Crayola has yet seen fit to include a Shit-Brown crayon in my box of 120. Fascists! ;P
- Chris Shadowens
Using the word s#@! to describe feces isn't cussing. It's crude, it's vulgar, it's colorful......and yet Crayola has yet seen fit to include a s&~~-Brown crayon in my box of 120. Fascists! ;P
- Chris Shadowens
Heh. I had a car that I described the color as "shit brown." It looked like, well, shit - but it ran wonderfully... 350 engine, 4-barrel carb, duel-exhaust... *sigh* I miss that shit brown car...