Before you attempt to sway me here:
I honestly think WotC is shooting themselves in the foot here, because an enormous amount of the content in the D20 hardcovers was originally dreamt of in Dragon.
Obviously, Paizo has to couch what they say publicly to maintain a good relationship with WotC and can't say how long they've known this was coming; though I do feel for them and I'm willing to bet they had many very quiet and equally as many very loud lunches over the whole thing.
I'm quite likely to at least shell out the $2 to get a preview of the player's guide.
That all being said:
Pros:
The new book looks gorgeous (seriously, I was impressed, and I'm jaded and cynical).
The possibility of pdf documents mirroring the books.
New feats and prestige classes.
Potential expansion of Unearthed Arcana materials (whose OGL status is somewhat indeterminate?).
The thought that my wife (who also plays) won't be able to say, "Hey, your Spankit Magazine came in the mail today!" as the covers don't appear as racy.
Cons:
Lack of fresh community content.
Inability to use existing "canon" prestige classes.
It's well above my typical price point. More so if I decide to pick up GameMastery as well.
Dungeon has been getting very dark lately (torture, dismemberment, sexual fetishism and the like), and I'm worried the trend will continue into the new books. I get enough of that working as an EMT in Detroit; I play D&D to get "away" from it.
An all new Pantheon in yet another new campaign setting (hell, I'm just barely warming up to Eberron).
Possibility that Dragon and Dungeon will continue, just under a different publishing house (I'm very mercenary, so don't please don't flame me with your loyalism).
An entire book in the middle of the AP by an author I find to be monotonous and pedantic (No, I'm not naming them, because: 1. It's rude 2. I'd be flamed).
Unearthed Arcana isn't indeterminate in terms of Open Gaming Content. If you check in the front of the book it explicitly says what's open (most of the book) and what's closed (little, mostly just stuff pertaining to closed content monsters).
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Beeler, I too am on the proverbial fence, although I chose to transition my sub to Pathfinder to give it a chance. i agree with most of your pros and cons. here are some more.
PROS.
A monthly dose of solid material from which to draw inspiration. This, for me, is huge. I need my fix on a regular basis.
Great art. from the preview page, it seems that a lot of the same artists will be back and continue to do fantastic work for Paizo.
PDF format, although unsatisfactory for me if used exclusively, can save a lot of time cuttin' and pastin' for personal use. Don't get me wrong, I need the physical embodiment of the material, but PDFs could be useful. I hope Paizo understands this and makes them user friendly.
Addition of other material. Not only are they including the Ap, but a bunch of support that is, from what I have read, easily transferable.
CONS.
$$$. This could be the undoing of Pathfinder, although I hope not.
Mono-Adventurism. If you don't like the AP, it could hurt. But judging from the previous 3 in the now "Lame Duck Dungeon", I am not too fearful of that occurring. Also, one could still pullout cool monsters, scenes, ideas, etc even if you don't love the setting or arc.
Losing the liscence hurts. Not just monsters, but Paizo's use of new classes, prestige classes, and the like is some of the most interesting material in the pages of LD Dungeon. I will miss that for PC/ NPC inspiration as well.
Overall, I will probably renew my sub after I receive my initial 3 issues if Pathfinder is anywhere near as creative and interesting as its predecessor. If it sucks, I won't.
I am saddened by the loss of Dungeon and Dragon Magazines but I will look into Pathfinder. Why this wasn't done in conjuction WITH the magazines is beyond me...I'm sure for money reasons...
My only concern is the cost of Pathfinder. It's a little too pricey for a subscription.
Anyone else's thoughts?
Don't get me wrong, I need the physical embodiment of the material, but PDFs could be useful.
It's comforting I'm not the only person dependent on the "Dead Tree" edition. I've got a large number of pdf's for traveling, but you just can't relax in a bubble bath (I'm a sensitive guy, aight?) without a good D&D hardcover.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I am saddened by the loss of Dungeon and Dragon Magazines but I will look into Pathfinder. Why this wasn't done in conjuction WITH the magazines is beyond me...I'm sure for money reasons...
My only concern is the cost of Pathfinder. It's a little too pricey for a subscription.
Anyone else's thoughts?
$20 a month isn't that much cost for a hobby. Guys that golf can drop a $100 in one day. At $.67 a day that price isn't much more than a cup of coffee.
Even if I bought another $20 in other gaming stuff I'm barely spending over a $1 a day. Still doesn't seem too expensive to me.
I agree with mwbeeler! I want my dead trees damn it! ~grins~
I agree with mwbeeler! I want my dead trees damn it! ~grins~
I'm in total agreement, but I also enjoy and use the maps, etc that we get from the PDF of each issue.
Vic Wertz mentioned that you can either purchase the paper copy for $19,99 or the PDF for 13.99. If you purchase the paper copy you will get the PDF for free.Problem is I want help my local gaming store and have never minded spending the extra few bucks at the store for Dungeon & Dragon. If I want to continue with this practice but still receive the PDF I have to spend 19.99 at the local gaming store and 13.99 for the PDF online. Not something I'm willing to do.
Like when your company tells you the health ins. co. they use is changing but you are not losing any benifits, it seems the employee/gamer always loses something in the end. Don't get me wrong I am excited about both pathfinder and the modules but there has to be a way I can support my local gaming store and still receive the PDF without spending $33.98 a month.
If I am misinformed on this issue or if there is a bright side I have not considered please enlighten me.
Thanks
Archer
Cut and paste from other thread:
I'm still very much on the fence about subscribing to Pathfinder. I know that it will have top-notch art, writing and cartography because I've come to expect the best from the folks at Paizo, but I just read the story outlines...and they're terrible. Maybe it's just the marketroid-speak that's leaking through but I don't see anything exciting about killing goblins, then ogres, then giants, then an evil lich. I thought you guys were going to go with all-new and original monsters? If you're unchained from the fetters of WotC why does the Pathfinder series seem so generic and bland?
I subscribed to Dungeon and Dragon because they offered several things: a huge variety of short adventures that I could select from (I disliked 50% of them, liked 40% and loved 10%); comics; news via First Watch and niche ads; a sense of community from the letters, rules answers, rule options, and campaign workbooks (loved the 101 of X collections); and detailed insight into D&D places (Planescape, Greyhawk) and things (Demons) that connect to existing D&D worlds. All for an incredibly low price!
Now all I would be getting is essentially a high-quality, serialized adventure book for a much higher price in a new untested world that has no connection to existing D&D lore. I already have plenty of long, large and high-quality adventures and I don't need any more. I want all the other things I mentioned, and it doesn't look like I'll be getting them in Pathfinder.
As for the new world, that's cool and all but I've already invested a lot of time in a) my own world b) Eberron c) Planescape and d) Greyhawk. I know that Paizo is doing their best with a bad hand, but Pathfinder seems so completely different from what I have come to expect from Dungeon & Dragon that I don't know if I'll be interested at all. The comparison to Red Hand of Doom is even worse since I recently played that module and it was one of the most hackneyed and boring bits of endless combat I've ever seen, pretty interior art notwithstanding.
So, I hope Pathfinder is a big success because I want Paizo to be successful, but it's something completely different from the two magazines I've grown to love. If anybody has good counterarguments to what I said, or if I'm mistaken about something, please let me know.
Here's my question about Pathfinder: What's in it for Players? Don't get me wrong, I DM like a lot of people here. But I don't DM all the time. My group has split up the current adventure paths between us, so I've only read AOW, but not SC or ST. For groups like mine, Pathfinder becomes a problem because if I'm not running that AP, then I don't need the book.
But here's a larger question from an economic standpoint: How is this supposed to appeal to everyone? Previously everyone in my group could subscribe to Dragon (even my wife read it and looked forward to it). Pathfinder is a DM only magazine so don't you lose some 75% plus of your total readers?
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Cut and paste from other thread:
I'm still very much on the fence about subscribing to Pathfinder. I know that it will have top-notch art, writing and cartography because I've come to expect the best from the folks at Paizo, but I just read the story outlines...and they're terrible. Maybe it's just the marketroid-speak that's leaking through but I don't see anything exciting about killing goblins, then ogres, then giants, then an evil lich. I thought you guys were going to go with all-new and original monsters? If you're unchained from the fetters of WotC why does the Pathfinder series seem so generic and bland?
I went here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderAnd pulled this info. Lot's of new monsters in every adventure:
Pathfinder 1
This installment of Pathfinder also includes extensive details on the town of Sandpoint, several new monsters, and information on the mysterious ancient empire of Thassilon, whose cruel and despotic rulers may not be as dead as history would have us believe.
Pathfinder 2
This issue of Pathfinder includes a detailed description of the city of Magnimar, several new monsters, and a detailed description of the goddess of dreams and travel, Desna, along with notes on her faithful.
Pathfinder 3
This issue of Pathfinder also features rules for maintaining and running a castle, a gazetteer of the wilderness region featured in the Adventure Path, and introduces several new monsters perfect for plaguing PCs who tread too far into these haunted mountains.
Pathfinder 4
This installment of Pathfinder also includes additional rules and information on the stone giant race, a detailed description of the goddess of monsters and her hideous minions, and several new monsters native to the rugged badlands of the stone giant realm.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Here's my question about Pathfinder: What's in it for Players? Don't get me wrong, I DM like a lot of people here. But I don't DM all the time. My group has split up the current adventure paths between us, so I've only read AOW, but not SC or ST. For groups like mine, Pathfinder becomes a problem because if I'm not running that AP, then I don't need the book.
But here's a larger question from an economic standpoint: How is this supposed to appeal to everyone? Previously everyone in my group could subscribe to Dragon (even my wife read it and looked forward to it). Pathfinder is a DM only magazine so don't you lose some 75% plus of your total readers?
As I understand it, Pathfinder isn't a magazine. It's an ongoing series of adventure campaign modules. I don't believe it is meant to appeal to everyone.
I may be wrong, but I believe Paizo will be selling this product to DMs. Said DMs will use the extra PC pieces (new gods, castle building etc) in the games and pass it on to players.
So yes, Paizo will lose some Dragon readers who were just players. But the players can still enjoy the extra bits (plus the player book for the campaigns) if they play the AP. And this product will sit on the shelves longer than a month (not a magazine) so word of mouth may get new buyers if it sells well.
If a DM doesn't run the AP, then the books will be less useful to the player unless the DM pulls out the player bits for them. The new world sounds interesting enough that I could see Paizo someday do more player stuff. But right now they are geared more toward the DM (battle maps, modules, monster minis etc.).
Obviously, if we're here, we're all big enough fans of the magazines and enough of their content to care about Pathfinder and wonder if it's worth it. While they won't be able to deliver the comforting usuals we're used to, I look at it as if they're just reorganzing how their creativity is presented.
I'm very excited to see what Paizo can do once they get the ball rolling. I envision an adventure path that they're allowed to devote an entire hundred pages to every month, free of the constraints of having to include material from multiple other published works and full of lovingly-crafted details usable in any setting.
If the introductory story arc doesn't sound exciting, I trust that the proven writers they've got working on it can make the most of things. Personally, it'll be nice to get a break from all the core elements they had to work with before, such as the standard pantheon and planes. I believe that creativity can go a long way in making the mundane exciting, and these guys have proven that they're ultra-creative inside a box; look what they've done with the Isle of Dread. What happens when you give them a whole world to create?
Sure, I was very surprised and saddened to read that the magazines were coming to an end, and I'll miss almost every bit of content, but what I loved most was how all those little things added up to a deep, enjoyable, and most of all fun game of D&D. I honestly think Pathfinder will be a labor of love from the industry's best, and even if I don't plan on running every six-month campaign arc, I'll eat up all the extra ideas they come up with along the way. It'll be like all the goodies of the hardbound books, but with a different creative group behind them. Two heads are better than one, as it were.
Okay! There's a ton of great questions here. Lets take all this on point by point.
Pros:
The new book looks gorgeous (seriously, I was impressed, and I'm jaded and cynical).
Everything you mentioned is true, plus a lot more we'll be revealing in the next few days. I promise you that we've only shown you all the tip of the iceberg and, in the coming hours, days, and weeks, we'll have a ton more for you to see. What I'm saying is that if you're on the fence already, you ain't seen nothing yet.
As for your concerns...
Cons:Lack of fresh community content.
Pathfinder will without a doubt have room for new authors to contribute. We don't have contributor guidelines up yet, as for months we've had to work on this out of the public eye, but expect those as we get closer to the first volume's release. One of the keystones of both Dragon and Dungeon, and what made both of those magazines so exciting, was knowing that your name had a chance to appear on the cover. We want people to feel the same way about Pathfinder and give our readers all the opportunities we can to play in our world.
Inability to use existing "canon" prestige classes.
This all depends on your definition of "canon." If your idea of canon means using rules that come from just publisher X, and we're not publisher X, then no, we're not canon. Rather, we'll be creating our own canon, specifically developed with a campaign and world in mind, while being portable to any other game of your choosing. That’s one of the great things about D&D and the OGL, you get to decide what's canon for your game, no matter if its from publisher X, Y, or Z.
It's well above my typical price point. More so if I decide to pick up GameMastery Modules as well.
Something that you're going to start seeing here as we show off more of Pathfinder is what a massive undertaking this is. Pathfinder is meant to give you everything you need to run an entire campaign. Take a moment and think about that. Everything. All the rules, all the plots, all the characters, handouts, art, background, details, handouts, supplemental quests, side plots, new monsters, character options and tools, and an Entire World. All this, in two formats, print and PDF, allowing you to customize and cherry pick as you like as no other product I know of has ever allowed.
Pathfinder is also meant to last. We know many roleplayers are both collectors and bibliophiles, so each volume is built to not only look amazing, but to keep looking amazing the fifth time you've run the adventure 10 years from now. Things like paper and cover quality aside, at 96 pages, full color, with writing and art by the best in gaming, and with a free PDF, potentially delivered to your door, and for all less than $20 bucks (much less if you transition your Dragon and Dungeon subscription), it starts sounding pretty fair.
Keep in mind, Pathfinder is not a magazine. This isn't just some PR or branding screed we're trying to feed you, it's true. It won't look like a magazine and it won't feel like one. It's going to feel like a substantial medical journal or the larger soft-cover products put out by other gaming companies, which usually retail around $25 bucks (and don't come with PDFs or show up at your house). The only thing that makes it like a periodical at all is that we're masochists and we're going to be doing one of these every bloody month.
Don't worry, though, we'll be sure to keep our blood, sweat, and tears off your shiny new book. ^_~
Dungeon has been getting very dark lately (torture, dismemberment, sexual fetishism, and the like), and I'm worried the trend will continue into the new books. I get enough of that working as an EMT in Detroit; I play D&D to get "away" from it.
Yeah, do an Adventure Path like Savage Tide, which is largely involved with demons and the like and turns out you get some of that. I know its shown up in other adventures, but even in Dungeon that sort of material is the exception, not the norm. Pathfinder makes a decisive effort to get to the heart of what fantasy roleplaying is, with heroes and villains, dragons and dungeons. This isn't saying that the adventures won't be as nuanced as you've come to expect and love from Dungeon, but our thinking is that dungeons should involve more kobolds and traps and fewer whips and harnesses.
That being said, our adventures are not always going to be rated G. There's a dark side to fantasy and there are very real evils that need thwarting. Sometimes it’s getting a taste of this depravity that makes the need to conquer it all the more urgent. There's a big difference between ending the villainous careers of "Malacar: The Black Scourge, Genocidist of the Shining Lands, and Father of Fiends" and Mr. Jones from down the street who throws shoes at cats. The hard part is that we give you the villains and the plots, and thus tend to focus on the dark side of the adventures, since its up to individual PCs and GMs to really let their heroes shine. Overall, expect a pretty baseline PG-13 rating, but know that for all the dark that might be in our world, there's at least an equal share of light, and even more once your PCs head into the fray.
An all new Pantheon in yet another new campaign setting (hell, I'm just barely warming up to Eberron).
As we're creating a new world we need deities for its people to worship, hence the new pantheon. In many ways, our gods will be like those in the core pantheon—a group of good and evil deities that a variety of characters can use and that allow you to customize your pious PC as you like. We're not doing anything weird, like making our world monotheistic or animistic or saying that everyone gets spells merely by thinking happy thoughts. As such, if you've got your own gods you want to use instead, go for it and have fun!
On the other side of the coin, though, we've already put a lot of work into our pantheon and what we've got—and will be showing off in the next few months—is pretty impressive. Cool enough, in fact, that we're going to be dedicating on average two supplemental chapters per Adventure Path to detailing a specific deity and his or her church. If you don't like what you see, use whatever you and your players will enjoy the most. If you do, though—and I really think you will—use it and enjoy.
The first look at our entire pantheon will appear in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide.
Possibility that Dragon and Dungeon will continue, just under a different publishing house (I'm very mercenary, so don't please don't flame me with your loyalism).
It's that sort of fan dedication that kept Dragon and Dungeon alive and strong for so long and made working on them such a delight. I have no doubt that, 20 years from now, I'll look back on the last four years of working on the magazines as one of the high points of my life. So, quite good on ya!
That being said, Wizards of the Coast has given us no inclination that they'll be publishing Dragon or Dungeon through any other outlet nor what form their online offerings will take. You'll have to stay tuned with them to see what's next on that front.
As for us, Pathfinder is not meant to be a clone or amalgam of Dragon and Dungeon. That being said, having worked on the magazines for so long, the staffs that brought your Dragon and Dungeon know how to do a few things very very well and love producing what we hope is considered some of the best gaming content available. We're incredibly excited that we have an outlet to keep doing our favorite parts of our old jobs and try some exciting new things, and, without a doubt, that enthusiasm will show through into Pathfinder.
We've been keeping a lid on Pathfinder for months now, so it's been a huge buzz to finally get to talk to you all about it and we can’t wait to show you more! Just check out our blog today and everyday in the coming weeks for more of us gushing about all the cool stuff we've had bottled up.
Mono-Adventurism. If you don't like the AP, it could hurt. But judging from the previous 3 in the now "Lame Duck Dungeon," I am not too fearful of that occurring. Also, one could still pull out cool monsters, scenes, ideas, etc even if you don't love the setting or arc.
It's true, if you don't like the whole Adventure Path that's a sad thing. But with each adventure, if you want to pull it off an Adventure Path and run it as its own stand alone, that's a completely viable option as well. There's also going to be tons of monsters, players’ stuff, and world building info. While all of our Adventure Paths will try their hardest to appeal to everyone, even if you don't like the over-arcing story we're dedicated to making sure that there's still plenty of supplementary info, portable elements, and just plain awesome extraneous stuff that you'll find something viable to your game and just downright fun to read.
Overall, I will probably renew my sub after I receive my initial 3 issues if Pathfinder is anywhere near as creative and interesting as its predecessor. If it sucks, I won't.
I love the films of John Carpenter. I know what to expect from him, like what I've seen the past, and I know that his creative choices mesh with my tastes. If he makes it, I'll see it.
I hope you'll think of Pazio and the Pathfinder staff in the same way. You all know us, you've seen what we've done in the past with Dragon, Dungeon, the Adventure Paths, and hundreds of articles, and we hope you've loved it.
If you like what you've seen up to now, check out what’s next, especially on our daily blog on the Pathfinder page, where we're totally opening the flood gates on more and more cool stuff everyday. I promise you: it won't suck.
Maybe it's just the marketroid-speak that's leaking through but I don't see anything exciting about killing goblins, then ogres, then giants, then an evil lich. I thought you guys were going to go with all-new and original monsters? If you're unchained from the fetters of WotC why does the Pathfinder series seem so generic and bland?
What it comes down to is that we really haven't said anything about the Adventure Paths yet. We will be in the coming day and week, but we have a lot of secrets that we're still trying to keep and we'll tease you with as we get closer to the first volume of Pathfinder's release.
As for sounding bland, this is summary text. All the past Adventure Paths sound bland when you distill them down to one sentence too. In that mindset, The Shackled City was just "Visit a city in a volcano," Age of Worms is "Fight worms and an evil deity," and Savage Tide is "Sail a boat and fight pirates and demons," but in actuality it turns out that there’s worlds more to each of those than just that blurb. I promise that in the six massive adventures and the dozens of supplementary appendices that are going to make up the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path (all written by the best minds in gaming), there's going to be a little bit more going on than fighting four SRD monsters.
And if you don't think we can make even that cool, check out our blog a little later today on goblins.
Now all I would be getting is essentially a high-quality, serialized adventure book for a much higher price in a new untested world that has no connection to existing D&D lore. I already have plenty of long, large and high-quality adventures and I don't need any more. I want all the other things I mentioned, and it doesn't look like I'll be getting them in Pathfinder.
You’re right in many cases here. Pathfinder is not going to be a trade magazine. Pathfinder is not going to have much in the way of comics (though, that's not to say there won't be a few familiar cartoonists onboard). Pathfinder is not going to tell you about new products from other companies. Pathfinder is not going to have access to much of D&D's mythology.
That's all part of not operating under license from Wizards of the Coast any more, but while in many cases that's a sad thing, that not to say that Pathfinder isn't going to have any of the D&D lore you love. There's still plenty in the SRD—from the rust monster to the gelatinous cube to the owlbear—that we can use and are deeply invested in the heart of what D&D is.
Also, being that so much of D&D lore is built off of real world legends and folklore, we have access to many of the same characters. Right off the bat, characters like Baba Yaga, Lamashtu, Dagon, Pazuzu, and Asmodeus all come to mind, with a few already playing a role in our upcoming adventures.
And you might be surprised what creatures are OGL. Do a little digging and you'll find familiar names like Fraz-Urb'Luu, Kostchtchie, Orcus, demodands, necrophidius, thessal monsters, the ever-maligned flumph, and the list goes on, and on, and on. This is on top of the OGL content from dozens of the most imaginative companies in gaming. Yeah, expect to see some familiar faces (and claws, and maws, and tentacles, and…).
As for Pathfinder being in yet another new campaign setting, we've all invested a lot in the lore of old campaign worlds and have strong feelings about all of our old loves. Personally, though, one of my favorite parts of D&D is exploring a whole brand new realm and knowing that my players and I will get to participate in and influence it through our adventures. Keep checking in with us in the coming months, in Pathfinder, and in the GameMastery Modules, and let us show you one more. We're building it off of what we’ve loved in the past 30+ years of gaming and are really excited about it. And we think you will be too.
The comparison to Red Hand of Doom is even worse since I recently played that module and it was one of the most hackneyed and boring bits of endless combat I've ever seen, pretty interior art...
The comparison is purely in general size and feel, not in content. The guts of Pathfinder will be radically different from those in Red Hand of Doom.
An entire book in the middle of the AP by an author I find to be monotonous and pedantic (No, I'm not naming them, because: 1. It's rude 2. I'd be flamed).
Hey, to each his own. I'm most pissed that the first one is by James Jacobs. That guy's a hack.
I hope that addresses many of you guys’ initial concerns. If you want to know more, again, keep checking in with the Pathfinder page, the Pathfinder blog, and right here on the messageboards. And, if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. We’re totally listening and are happy to share as much as we can with you. Thanks for the initial groundswell of interest in enthusiasm too. The last few days have been a rush!
click here - it's that simple
Oh, yeah. And that. Wayne Reynolds has dibs on the first 12+ covers.
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As far as i am concerned, 'Pathfinder' will be the new 'Dragon.' That's my glass overflow'ith mindset.
With Pathfinder, Paizo, once again, you've proven yourselves to go above and beyond when taking care of your flock--us, your loyal followers. I, for one, thank you.
Game on!
Thoth-Amon leaves his mental signature
click here - it's that simple
Nothing says "Pett" adventure better than that masterpiece of WAR's. I can't wait to read Skinsaw Murders in all its glory (Rich has given me a taste, and believe me, we are in for a gut-wrenching, sanity-shattering descent into the kind of darkness that makes D&D glorious to play).
F. Wesley Schneider, I like what I am hearing. All I can say is that I have already subscribed and I will try out the first 6 issues. I have no doubt that I will continue my subscription, however, I will know what I think of Pathfinder after seeing the AP completed. On the plus side, Paizo has done good so far. Keep up the good work!
click here - it's that simpleOh, yeah. And that. Wayne Reynolds has dibs on the first 12+ covers.
Okay, I'm sold. :)
I look at it this way--it's the creative talent that matters in adventures, not the license, the format, or even the game system for that matter. If WotC yanked all OGC rights and Paizo had to invent a whole new rules system, I'd still be on board with them if people like James Jacobs, Richard Pett, and Nick Logue were writing the adventures. Coupled with the customer service we've come to expect from Paizo, that's gospel. Point-blank: Paizo has ALREADY convinced me, even with the new format, etc. "sight unseen."
Thank you for replying to all our concerns. This is certainly a difficult decision, and WAR artwork makes it all the harder! I'll be reading more about the world and story of Pathfinder...
I look at it this way--it's the creative talent that matters in adventures, not the license, the format, or even the game system for that matter. If WotC yanked all OGC rights and Paizo had to invent a whole new rules system, I'd still be on board with them if people like James Jacobs, Richard Pett, and Nick Logue were writing the adventures. Coupled with the customer service we've come to expect from Paizo, that's gospel. Point-blank: Paizo has ALREADY convinced me, even with the new format, etc. "sight unseen."
Kirth,
This is the nicest thing I have ever read that I am included in. I think I'm going to cry. Thank you. I intend to keep delivering the very best material I can for you and all the great fans that support this wonderful company. Paizo really ressurected the hobby for me, and I am proud to be able to contribute to the greatness they put out.
Kirth, you and all of paizo's fans are really amazing. We live in a day and age when hard work, dedication and customer service gets ignored by so many people, but not so for the good people posting here. Your support of Paizo only fuels my inner fire to work even harder for them and never let them or you down. Thanks again Kirth, you just made my day!
This is the nicest thing I have ever read that I am included in. I think I'm going to cry.
Usually, I make people cry because I'm the "token mean guy" at work. But I just tell the truth as I see it. You guys have revitalized a hobby that I honestly thought was on the way out. And your presence on the message boards is inspired: to be able to actually TALK to the people who are providing us with so much entertainment is almost too good to be true. Nick, you've gotten to be almost a friend over the past months, and it means a lot to me and the other subscribers. We're behind you 100%.
I look at it this way--it's the creative talent that matters in adventures, not the license, the format, or even the game system for that matter. If WotC yanked all OGC rights and Paizo had to invent a whole new rules system, I'd still be on board with them if people like James Jacobs, Richard Pett, and Nick Logue were writing the adventures. Coupled with the customer service we've come to expect from Paizo, that's gospel. Point-blank: Paizo has ALREADY convinced me, even with the new format, etc. "sight unseen."
Agreed. It's why I signed up sight unseen too. :)
Me too! And Third!! and Fourth!!! I am just glad that the SPIRIT of these great magazines is still alive and kicking. WotC made a very foolish mistake, and we are trying to make sure the hobby does not take too much of a blow because of it.
You are all awesome! Thanks for the support guys!
Kirth! Here's hoping we get to throw some dice together someday soon my man!
You are all awesome! Thanks for the support guys!
Kirth! Here's hoping we get to throw some dice together someday soon my man!
That'd be sweet! If you're still on Maui, I'll look you up when I visit my friend Bryan Smith... hopefully soon. If nothing else, I'd be proud to buy you a "barley soda." (By the same token, if you're here on the mainland and anywhere near Houston, give me a "heads-up" by all means.)
Me too! And Third!! and Fourth!!! I am just glad that the SPIRIT of these great magazines is still alive and kicking. WotC made a very foolish mistake, and we are trying to make sure the hobby does not take too much of a blow because of it.
I actually think it's going to send the hobby to new heights. The community that Dragon and Dungeon created won't just disperse; with the internet (not to mention the OGL and companies like Paizo utilizing it), there are lots of ways for the hobby to expand. WotC closing the door on the magazines will only create a vacuum that'll be filled by countless independents, and probably bring a lot of the pre-existing independents more to the fore.
A lot of different groups of motivated, creative people working to expand the hobby is better than one company running everything. It's the spirit of competition and the old 'two heads are better than one' combined, and hopefully Pathfinder will be the start of something really special for a lot more people than just the fine folks at Paizo.
That'd be sweet! If you're still on Maui, I'll look you up when I visit my friend Bryan Smith... hopefully soon. If nothing else, I'd be proud to buy you a "barley soda."You are all awesome! Thanks for the support guys!
Kirth! Here's hoping we get to throw some dice together someday soon my man!
That'd be awesome, sadly I leave Hawai'i next month already...GAH! Moving on to New York...s#@!! Now Wolfgang knows where to find me!!! Curse my type-happy fingers! ;-)
If you make it out to New York City anytime after July (I'll be doing a lot of honeymoon traveling between here and there) let me know. Dice we'll throw! Beer will flow!!! A'gaming we shall go!
If you make it out to New York City anytime after July (I'll be doing a lot of honeymoon traveling between here and there) let me know. Dice we'll throw! Beer will flow!!! A'gaming we shall go!
Dammit! I'll be upstate (Albany) in July! To go to a wedding, actually... Hey! Congratulations, my good friend (and may happiness find you even in NYC)! My own honeymoon was in the Finger Lakes, and it was sublime.
Thanks Kirth, I am very excited to tie that knot!!!
Chief Technical Officer
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An entire book in the middle of the AP by an author I find to be monotonous and pedantic (No, I'm not naming them, because: 1. It's rude 2. I'd be flamed).
Just so you know, the named authors are generally only writing the 50 or so pages of adventure for each volume. The other content will be written by other folks you may or may not hate. :-)
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Think before you go to Pathfinder, guys.
If you don't like one of the Campaign arcs, that's 6 months of nearly useless material. Oh, and $84! Sure, some of the campaign arcs will be good. Heck, all of them will have good parts. But just like our beloved Dungeon mags, not all of it will fit in your campaign.
More importantly is the time consideration. Before you could really start AoW or STAP you had to get almost all the adventures first. Meanwhile you still had the rest of the magazine to get ideas from. Not so with Pathfinder.
If you use an element or two from the campaign you're probably not going to be able to use the campaign as it is later. I mean, if you use Vhalantru or Balabar Smenk in your homebrew it would be pretty hard to do AoW or SCAP a few months later.
It seems to me that the Gamemastery modules will take the place of Dungeon: small advntures from the Paizo editors, some we can use, some we can't. But you'll be able to peruse them in your spare time and add them to your campaigns without too much fuss.
Pathfinder seems way too big to do anything. Can we grab it on the fly for quick ideas we need immediately? No. Will we get a variety of different locales, as different as The Styes, Waterdeep, Cauldron, Ravenloft? No. Monster Ecologies? No. Mt. Zogon? Don't bet on it. Dungeoncraft? Doesn't sound like it...
Pick up a Pathfinder on the newsstand if you want but I'm not going monthly till I've seen it.
-W. E. Ray
First of all, much thanks to the excellent staff here who not only took the time to address my concerns, but also moved the thread to the proper forum instead of deleting it (5000 bonus gargoyles!).
and Mr. Jones from down the street who throws shoes at cats
Do we live on the same street, or are there more of these guys than I'd imagined?
Pathfinder will without a doubt have room for new authors to contribute.
Just so you know, the named authors are generally only writing the 50 or so pages of adventure for each volume. The other content will be written by other folks you may or may not hate. :-)
That's terrific news, I feel more motivated already.
click here - it's that simple
The one that really sold me isn't up anymore; it was the female caster inserted into the pathfinder transition text. I have high esteem Mr. Reynolds' talent as a graphic artist.
check out our blog a little later today on goblins
I just have this odd picture of all the little green guys from Gremlins 2 singing the theme song off key.
One last question on my part:
Is there any chance of a "pick up the pilot" offering instead of a full blown subscription (not withstanding just signing up and then dropping it, which would work too, obviously...)? Maybe like some kind of bundly thing (I'm so descriptive, eh?) that includes the first book, the pdf, the player's guide, and boudoir photos of Bea Arthur?
Thanks!
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Creative Director
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We've thought a LOT about what to do once the magazines move back to WotC, and Pathfinder, from every angle, seems to be our best bet. I'm full aware of the fact that for those who aren't interested in a particular Adventure Path that it'll be tough for them to pick up the book, but that's why each volume is also going to have a fair amount of other material in it. Stuff that supports the adventure that's in the other half of that volume, but which also supports the game in general.
Just a short list of the types of support articles that we're planning on for Pathfinder:
City/regional backdrops (including a variety of locations)
Additional optional encounters (possibly short adventures now and then)
Sections that explore the gods of the world in great detail (we're aiming for a cross between Core Beliefs and Demonomicon style here)
Discussions of key monsters in the adventrue path, including details on their society, their ecology, their lairs, their insides, etc.
Lots of new monsters
Support articles, such as new types of magic, how to run a castle, and other unique rules bit not sufficiently covered by the SRD.
And more. But I don't wanna scoop one of this weekend's Pathfinder blog entries TOO much; keep an eye there and we'll have the full scoop on what ELSE is in Pathfinder, apart from the adventure path.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Is there any chance of a "pick up the pilot" offering instead of a full blown subscription (not withstanding just signing up and then dropping it, which would work too, obviously...)? Maybe like some kind of bundly thing (I'm so descriptive, eh?) that includes the first book, the pdf, the player's guide, and boudoir photos of Bea Arthur?
Like you said, go ahead and just sign up for the sub, and you'll get all those things (well, except for the Bea Arthur thing. We've got Harvey Korman instead). If you don't like it, drop it. (We just happen to think you'll choose to keep it going once you get your hands on it.)
We've got Harvey Korman instead
I had no idea Blazing Saddles was considered OGL material! Excellent.
Yeah, I have a feeling I'll break down and buy the darn thing, totally love it, and be stuck with another recurring subscription. Sigh, C'est la vie. At least I think I have my wife convinced that we should use our tax return to buy two lifetime sub's to LOTRO (I really hate recurring payments, can you tell, lol?).