SPOILERS!
Hi,
I'm running the STAP with my group and we're having loads of fun with it, although they only just left Parrot island. I have the magazines up to Here there be monsters so far and I like them all but there is one adventure which I'm just a little disappointed with, the Bullywug Gambit. It is very well written but there's just too much of fighting monsters for my taste in this adventure. The cove and the manor don't seem to be more than simple hackfests to pull the charaters up to fifth level.
What is the important campaign-specific information in this adventure? What has to happen in order for the rest of the path to progress without problems? I can see the following (but please correct me):
- the characters need a ship
- The characters have to learn that Vanthus got away and it is hopeless to follow him further
- The characters should learn something about the black pearl and such and meet Harliss
Now is it just coincidence that the tide is triggered? Or will the characters need the knowledge about this event in later adventures? I think the adventure somehow mentions that the character's fate is somehow tied to these events, which sounds like an excuse for a very strange coincidence.
Have any of you increased the roleplay elements in this adventure? If yes, how?
I'm thinking about changing of even skipping this adventure but I'd like to know what you think of it. Well, as you can see, Die Hard is not one of my favourite movies...
Thanks!
Well, I am inclined to feel ambivalent, in the sense that both arguments hold somewhat equal merit.
It is a seriously combat-heavy mod, and Mr. Logue does not pull punches. I have had a PC death in every single module of his that I have run. Even the ones which on the outside seemed more story oriented (for instance "Chimes of Midnight"), yet he weaves many opportunities for the individual DM to imprint his/her stamp throughout his mods.
The action outside and in the cove is exciting, challenging for the PC's and well paced, yet there are numerous opportunities for exposition and RP, especially if the party proceeds with caution and doesn't succumb to the "zombie-fighting" mentality. The encounter with Harliss provided a nice tactical combat with the Savage Pirates harassing her, as the Halfling Scout had doubled around and snuck in through the seaway, causing her great consternation for the briefest of moments. Ie: "where in the blazes did you come from, halfling?"
The RP with her afterwards had everyone glued to the edge of their chair and Logue's dialog for her proved entertaining and useful. THe party of course could not muster the Diplomacy check necessary to completely sway her, but they left feeling they had. Imagine their surprise later.
The several "random" encounters in the city are there for story development and color, and help add a little background if handled properly, but if not, its a nice break for everyone after all those savage yar-har's.
The mansion itself is rife with RP opportunities and if handled lovingly and carefully can provide some of the most entertaining and compelling combats & encounters of the mod (at least for me it did) with further background on Lavinia, Harliss, the Jade Ravens, etc. sureptitiously sprinkled throughout. It was mighty fun running Bullywugs again, something I haven't done since I ran my FR campaign.
The "slimy" personalities of the individual frog-men came through in Logue's stat-blocks, descriptions and scene settings. The PC's had a great deal of fun "infiltrating" what amounts to their home base, and the confrontation with the Half-Orc mate of Harliss was priceless.
However, I agree that the combats with the Savage Pirates seemed a little samey and offered little in the way of challenge except where they had surprise or terrain on their side, and the steady stream of combat left all but the most combat jonezing players a little exhausted. All in all, I would caution against skipping it, as the few elements that do tie in to the main plot are very important, and if possible the party hates Vanthus even more than when he trapped them under Parrot Island. If you want to adapt it to be less combat heavy simply omit some of the Pirates from the Cove and speed that part up. Make XP up later with side quests either before or after embarking on the Wyvern's Wake, and add a little more intrigue/color/RP in the city during the wormfall fest.
Our group doesn't like numerous combats, esp. ones of minimal challenge (my group has a fire-based spellcaster, a summoner, and an alchemist, so the DR of the savage pirates is no problem for them). I divided the adventure basically into two sessions--the cove and the rescue.
At the cove, I have one initial combat with the savage pirates (introducing the creatures), the savage dinosaur/phanaton, and the end fight with Harliss. The difficulty of these encounters has been increased somewhat to balance out cutting other encounters.
In the mansion, I'll do roughly the same--initial encounter with bullywug guards, "spot" encounters with the bullywugs that were fun to run (the "king" with his rust monster, for instance) then the final encounter (and in that one, they've got a chance to save Kora if they end the combat fast enough or take the time to heal her since I have her knifed just as the party enters).
Three combats in a session is about max for us, generally speaking.
I'm not sure the stilt-walker encounter will make it at all--the party will likely think it's silly rather than cool. I'm still feeling that one out.
Creative Director
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Savage Tide is designed to have as wide a range of adventure types as possible. That's why you'll see a range stretching from "hack-fests" like "Bullywug Gambit" to "yak-fests" like "Sea Wyvern's Wake."
But Bullywug Gambit isn't without roleplay. The encounter with Harliss is ripe with roleplay opportunity, as are some of the encounters in the city during the Wormfall Festival. And the last encounter with the bullywug cleric and the first mate doesn't necessarilly need to end in full-on combat if you have a gifted group of diplomats.
The most important things to develop in "Bullywug Gambit," if you choose to significantly adapt it or abandon it, are:
1: The PCs should gain an increased rapport with Lavinia.
2: The PCs should gain access to the Sea Wyvern.
3: The PCs should encounter Harliss and chat with her, since she plays a key role later in the campaign.
4: The PCs should try to stop Vanthus and fail, thereby generating more anger against him.
5: The PCs should witness the effects of the savage tide, and perhaps suspect that a shattered pearl had something to do with the troubles in the cove.
6: The presence of dinosaurs and phanatons helps to foreshadow the Isle of Dread.
7: The PCs should get an idea that the Crimson Fleet is up to something, but these should be little more than vague hints or concerns.
8: The PCs should interact with the Jade Ravens and develop a relatoinship with them (be it a friendly one or not).
Hi All!
Yeah, Bullywug is very combat intensive, the most-so adventure I have written to date, and the outline definately called for more than a little ultraviolence on this one. I think the Savage Tide is cool cause it is outlined (as James pointed out) to give a wide range of excellent adventure archetypes. For example Here There Be Monsters is the coolest overland travel adventure I have ever read and Tides is a stellar mass battle adventure, oh yeah, and Sea Wyvern is a really nifty RP heavy adventure too.
That being said, you can RP the heck out of Bullywug. First off, the adventure itself should lean on the players to RP with each other. Thrust into the strange cove surrounded by mindless savage cannibals whose bites infect people with the same hideous affliction, I know I'd be having Hudson moments left right and center if I was playing this adventure.
If you want to consider RPing up Bullywug I suggest the following:
1. Change the mechanic of the savage fever so that it sneaks up on you and can be concealed. There is another thread about this already, but the skinny of it is to have the disease act like this: As soon as an infected person incurs 6 Int damage, they turn and feast on their friends and neighbors. This way, if a PC gets infected it's much more terrifying. In this case, you would want to have Harliss have taken less Int damage than she has (so up her Int a bit...which makes her more dangerous to tangle with if the PCs get crazy with her).
2. Add a bugbear slave who has not succumbed to the illness yet, but is going to, and conceals his infection out of fear/denail. Make him a great NPC fun to roleplay, and try to play up him by having him helping the group right off the bat. Maybe during one of the combats when a PC is in danger, the bugbear suddenly steps from the shadows and clobbers a savage pirate with a driftwood club. There be his intro. Then he helps them navigate the cove and earns the party's trust. Then he goes ape-savage and tries to eat them. Or if the PCs see he is infected earlier they can save him and earn a cohort. Either way you got RP.
3. Milk Harliss' RP scene for all its worth. In my informal playtest, this scene was by far the most fun in the session. How the PCs deal with Harliss is very important in Tides of Dread, as she makes a second appearance there, and if the PCs have earned her respect or freindship, this may pay off later in the Path.
4. The manor is not at all meant to be a hackfest. Sure there is lots of fighting, but the goal is to save Lavinia and the Jade Ravens. Tons of RP opportunities abound with the Ravens, and of course those slimey slimey Bullywugs.
I don't really suggest skipping Bullywug, as seeing the effects of the savage tide makes things more dire and urgent in Tides of Dread when Harliss tries to smuggle one into Farshore. Actually, all the things James listed are important to the nurturing of the Path. If you really want to give Bullywug a miss, don't forget those things.
It might be worth running an abbreviated version of Bullywug, and just removing a lot of the fights. My homebrew campaign style is also real combat-lite RP heavy, so I know how you feel, too much battle and it all loses meaning. Fights should be intense. Go ahead and cut a few out of Bullywug, or skip it, but be sure to use James bullet-points in whatever you put in its place.
you can RP the heck out of Bullywug.
Or you can tell your lilly-livered, land-lubber PCs to fight like men instead of sniveling little girls!
El Skootro
3. Milk Harliss' RP scene for all its worth. In my informal playtest, this scene was by far the most fun in the session. How the PCs deal with Harliss is very important in Tides of Dread, as she makes a second appearance there, and if the PCs have earned her respect or freindship, this may pay off later in the Path.
Actually... She was supposed to reappear in Tides and was written into it, but James cut her because I think he has plans on using her a wee bit later.
Yay!
Great responses - thanks a lot everyone! I decided that we'll definitely play this adventure and I can see now there is quite some potential for memorable RP situations. I'll probably focus on the idea that the characters have to survive among the savage pirates, instead of having to fight them all off. You also pointed me in the direction that I just misunderstood the mansion part and it isn't really meant as a hack-fest.
Thanks Mr. Logue for those great ideas, they will be used in our game! I especially like the bugbear and I'm already thinking about what name I'll give him. Also thanks to James for pointing out what is important, it will still come in handy so I can focus on these points. Nevertheless I will cut out several of the creatures, just for time's sake.
Thanks, what a great community!
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3. Milk Harliss' RP scene for all its worth. In my informal playtest, this scene was by far the most fun in the session. How the PCs deal with Harliss is very important in Tides of Dread, as she makes a second appearance there, and if the PCs have earned her respect or freindship, this may pay off later in the Path.Actually... She was supposed to reappear in Tides and was written into it, but James cut her because I think he has plans on using her a wee bit later.
Talkin' about getting robbed of yerr pirate booty!
My group loves combat, and I am really looking forward to TBG. We also like role-playing, of course, and I will probably use some of the suggestions in this thread to increase that aspect of it.
Harliss is a really cool NPC, and looks like she'll be fun to play. We are using gestalt characters, and I had fun "gestalting" her. We ignore the "only 1 prestige class" rule for gestalt and I made her a Legendary Captain on one side and a Scarlet Corsair on the other. The swashbuckler/rogue in my group who is going into Scarlet Corsair used to sail with his uncle, a pirate captain, and I'm going to make Harliss have been a former first mate/lover of his uncle who left him due to philosophical differences. He wanted to mainly rob Thyatian slaving vessels and she wanted to rob anything they could. So that will be a fun tie-in for his character.
I can't wait for the PC's to see her hurl a dagger into a savage pirate's heart and then in the next round retrieve it from his body. I don't know why, but that's just a cool image to me.
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Creative Director
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Actually... She was supposed to reappear in Tides and was written into it, but James cut her because I think he has plans on using her a wee bit later.
Yup... as her character ended up developing in Bullywug (she's a mercenary who works for the Crimson Fleet, not a full-on member), it made no sense for her to show up in Tides of Dread. It made even less sense for her to suddenly be working FOR Vanthus, after her hatred of him in Bullywug made her send her first mate off to his doom.
Her role in a certain upcoming adventure is pretty nifty. Plus, it's looking like she actually gets to be on the cover of said issue!
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My group is about the same, the Dr has not been a problem yet for them.And I also ran the adventure is 2 sessions. !st they went to the cove and I put a few encounters together or backtoback.Then the rescue. Here I put all powerful Villians in the same room with the captives. It was like 2 powerful groups going at it. Each Pc had there own personal fight.My Pcs were 5th lvl vs 6th lvl villians.I was able to rap it up quickly and the players had lots of fun.I ran the stilt walker encounter just to put the mystery of (wait a second is someone hireing assassins to kill us) in the adventure and it worked very well .my pc s are still looking over there shoulders.
Our group doesn't like numerous combats, esp. ones of minimal challenge (my group has a fire-based spellcaster, a summoner, and an alchemist, so the DR of the savage pirates is no problem for them). I divided the adventure basically into two sessions--the cove and the rescue.
At the cove, I have one initial combat with the savage pirates (introducing the creatures), the savage dinosaur/phanaton, and the end fight with Harliss. The difficulty of these encounters has been increased somewhat to balance out cutting other encounters.
In the mansion, I'll do roughly the same--initial encounter with bullywug guards, "spot" encounters with the bullywugs that were fun to run (the "king" with his rust monster, for instance) then the final encounter (and in that one, they've got a chance to save Kora if they end the combat fast enough or take the time to heal her since I have her knifed just as the party enters).
Three combats in a session is about max for us, generally speaking.
I'm not sure the stilt-walker encounter will make it at all--the party will likely think it's silly rather than cool. I'm still feeling that one out.
this is actually a fun adventure. my party just finished it last night and had a lot of RP with the jade ravens and lavinia. and mr. logue, thanks for the savage monkeys. 3 weeks later and my players are still talking about that fight. i plan on using them in other places on the isle of dread with the HTBM adventure. excellent stuff, man!
We finished BG the day before yesterday and it was GREAT! My players hated those savage creatures. We had lots of roleplay during the trip to and from Blood Bay, with Harliss and in the city of Sasserine. The Wormfall Festival was really nice connecting the APs and the incident with the alchemist's fire-hurling stiltwalkers and the skeleton woman was surely one of the best encounters ever. I also liked the once peaceful haven of Vanderboren Manor being overrun by frogmen! And there were great roleply scenes with the Jade Ravens, Churtle and Miss Vanderboren, too.
After all I think BG is a great adventure! There may be modules that favor roleplay and there my be those favoring other aspects of the game but its you the DM and your players setting the style of your session after all!
Yay!
Great responses - thanks a lot everyone! I decided that we'll definitely play this adventure and I can see now there is quite some potential for memorable RP situations. I'll probably focus on the idea that the characters have to survive among the savage pirates, instead of having to fight them all off. You also pointed me in the direction that I just misunderstood the mansion part and it isn't really meant as a hack-fest.
Thanks Mr. Logue for those great ideas, they will be used in our game! I especially like the bugbear and I'm already thinking about what name I'll give him. Also thanks to James for pointing out what is important, it will still come in handy so I can focus on these points. Nevertheless I will cut out several of the creatures, just for time's sake.
Thanks, what a great community!
Awesome Talon! Hope it works out great for ya! Good gaming!
Actually... She was supposed to reappear in Tides and was written into it, but James cut her because I think he has plans on using her a wee bit later.Yup... as her character ended up developing in Bullywug (she's a mercenary who works for the Crimson Fleet, not a full-on member), it made no sense for her to show up in Tides of Dread. It made even less sense for her to suddenly be working FOR Vanthus, after her hatred of him in Bullywug made her send her first mate off to his doom.
Her role in a certain upcoming adventure is pretty nifty. Plus, it's looking like she actually gets to be on the cover of said issue!
Yea! Harliss is my cover girl! Happy dance!
this is actually a fun adventure. my party just finished it last night and had a lot of RP with the jade ravens and lavinia. and mr. logue, thanks for the savage monkeys. 3 weeks later and my players are still talking about that fight. i plan on using them in other places on the isle of dread with the HTBM adventure. excellent stuff, man!
It is James' infinite Wisdom that saw them kept in. At one point they were in the cut pile and James, put em back in! Awesome! Long live the savage monkeys!
I LOOOOOOVE Here There Be Monsters!!! It's my favorite of the Tide so far (I haven't read Tides of Dread yet...Hawai'i, so far away, Dungeon come slow), I really want to run it!
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Creative Director
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It is James' infinite Wisdom that saw them kept in. At one point they were in the cut pile and James, put em back in! Awesome! Long live the savage monkeys!
Don't sell yourself short, Nick! I was ready to cut them down. They were actually OUT of the adventure till the very end, when your skill at wordcraft convinced me they should go back in and that what's-his-name the blackscale lizardfolk should get the boot instead. And you were 100% right. Savage monkeys are awesome.
And I should point out that while Harliss is indeed appearing on a cover... she's the cover girl for "Serpents of Scuttlecove," which technically means that she's Richard Pett's cover girl too...
It is James' infinite Wisdom that saw them kept in. At one point they were in the cut pile and James, put em back in! Awesome! Long live the savage monkeys!Don't sell yourself short, Nick! I was ready to cut them down. They were actually OUT of the adventure till the very end, when your skill at wordcraft convinced me they should go back in and that what's-his-name the blackscale lizardfolk should get the boot instead. And you were 100% right. Savage monkeys are awesome.
And I should point out that while Harliss is indeed appearing on a cover... she's the cover girl for "Serpents of Scuttlecove," which technically means that she's Richard Pett's cover girl too...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
She's MINE! ALL MINE!!! I created her! You remember the meeting and subsequent emails about her! Harliss is my girl!
Man, I finally get something of mine on the cover, and it has to be all about the Pett. Pett always gets the cover. Nick never does. 6 adventures this year, no covers for me. Why do you hate me so James?!? We won't even go into how you ghouled me in the There is No Honor playtest... ;-)
Seriously though, I'm so stoked to read more Harliss, even if Pett's got his filthy paws all over her lucious...
piratical nerve...what did you think I was gonna write, booty? Get your minds out o' the gutters readers!!!
Can't wait for Scuttlecove! Actually can't wait for Tides of Dread too! C'mon Mr. Postman! Bring me a Dungeon!!!
Actually can't wait for Tides of Dread too! C'mon Mr. Postman! Bring me a Dungeon!!!
I cannot help but wonder about the U.S. mail. I´ve got my copy sometime last week (I´m living in Europe), and it still didn´t arrive in Hawaii ? Strange... I guess it´s an european conspiracy headed by Mr. Pett to keep Mr. Logue from reading the mag.
Stefan
Actually can't wait for Tides of Dread too! C'mon Mr. Postman! Bring me a Dungeon!!!it is completely unfair! pett getting his filthy paws on your girl! and a cover of her to boot! why of all the injustice in the world! for this one i am in your corner mr. logue. its okay though, because deep down, you know that you are the only one who can write her, and i'm sure mr. pett's attempt will be half hearted at best.
keep up the good work. and HTBM is one of the best adventures in this series to date. all of you writers are doing fantastic on this AP.
for this one i am in your corner mr. logue. its okay though, because deep down, you know that you are the only one who can write her, and i'm sure mr. pett's attempt will be half hearted at best.
HUZZAH!!!
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has a geeky crush on Harliss. :)
It is James' infinite Wisdom that saw them kept in. At one point they were in the cut pile and James, put em back in! Awesome! Long live the savage monkeys!Don't sell yourself short, Nick! I was ready to cut them down. They were actually OUT of the adventure till the very end, when your skill at wordcraft convinced me they should go back in and that what's-his-name the blackscale lizardfolk should get the boot instead. And you were 100% right. Savage monkeys are awesome.
And I should point out that while Harliss is indeed appearing on a cover... she's the cover girl for "Serpents of Scuttlecove," which technically means that she's Richard Pett's cover girl too...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
She's MINE! ALL MINE!!! I created her! You remember the meeting and subsequent emails about her! Harliss is my girl!
Man, I finally get something of mine on the cover, and it has to be all about the Pett. Pett always gets the cover. Nick never does. 6 adventures this year, no covers for me. Why do you hate me so James?!? We won't even go into how you ghouled me in the There is No Honor playtest... ;-)
Seriously though, I'm so stoked to read more Harliss, even if Pett's got his filthy paws all over her lucious...
piratical nerve...what did you think I was gonna write, booty? Get your minds out o' the gutters readers!!!
Can't wait for Scuttlecove! Actually can't wait for Tides of Dread too! C'mon Mr. Postman! Bring me a Dungeon!!!
Hmmm...now just WHAT did I do with her...muhahahahahaha.
Can't wait for Scuttlecove!
Well 'Mr Logue', your admiration and anticipation is almost touching...but now I think about it - Harliss who?
Hahahahahahahahaha.
...Well I, I wanna be...
...and sorry James, I'm sure I should know - and don't think I'm ungrateful, being at opposite poles to Bullywug's Badbit - but what exactly is a 'yak-fest?' (although you know, it gives me an idea...).
...and sorry James, I'm sure I should know - and don't think I'm ungrateful, being at opposite poles to Bullywug's Badbit - but what exactly is a 'yak-fest?' (although you know, it gives me an idea...).
Yak - to vomit, to purge one's digestive tract due to excessive nausea, and also in the cases of certain adventures - excessive boredom.
Yak-fest - A festival of vomitousness, brought on by a Richard Pett exclusive.
Does that about cover it James?
Well, let me tell you, I am looking forward to the next big yak-fest, Scuttlecove! Woo-hoo, gonna drop me like ten pounds reading that one.
Talkin' about getting robbed of yerr pirate booty!3. Milk Harliss' RP scene for all its worth. In my informal playtest, this scene was by far the most fun in the session. How the PCs deal with Harliss is very important in Tides of Dread, as she makes a second appearance there, and if the PCs have earned her respect or freindship, this may pay off later in the Path.Actually... She was supposed to reappear in Tides and was written into it, but James cut her because I think he has plans on using her a wee bit later.
LOL!
I somehow didn't see this the first time around!!!
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has a geeky crush on Harliss. :)
HA! Nope. Nick has been geeky crushing on non-existent woman-folk waaaaay back since Kei and Yuri of the Dirty Pair. Yuri...so cute! Kei...such a bad bad girl, droooool!
Harliss is a hottie, and more importantly (to me at least), she is mean with a cutlass, and has a dirty dirty mouth.
I like her dirty mouth. I've been trying to write up her scandalous tirade against Vanthus, but my rule is no modern cussing, at most using words like "arse." More getting the feel of a cussing tirade, rather then just using modern (anachronistic) cusswords. It's fun, but difficult.
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I like her dirty mouth. I've been trying to write up her scandalous tirade against Vanthus, but my rule is no modern cussing, at most using words like "arse." More getting the feel of a cussing tirade, rather then just using modern (anachronistic) cusswords. It's fun, but difficult.
Just remember that most "modern" swear words are quite old.
I like her dirty mouth. I've been trying to write up her scandalous tirade against Vanthus, but my rule is no modern cussing, at most using words like "arse." More getting the feel of a cussing tirade, rather then just using modern (anachronistic) cusswords. It's fun, but difficult.
Well - according to the expert cussers at Deadwood the really bad curse words seem pretty innocuous today. In fact, Milch (Deadwood's creator) alegedly had to punch up the swearing since it sounded silly for the characters to go around saying 'crap' all the time. (Which was a nasty word back in the day).
More here if you are really interested - Caution contains some nasty words!
I like her dirty mouth. I've been trying to write up her scandalous tirade against Vanthus, but my rule is no modern cussing, at most using words like "arse." More getting the feel of a cussing tirade, rather then just using modern (anachronistic) cusswords. It's fun, but difficult.Well - according to the expert cussers at Deadwood the really bad curse words seem pretty innocuous today. In fact, Milch (Deadwood's creator) alegedly had to punch up the swearing since it sounded silly for the characters to go around saying 'crap' all the time. (Which was a nasty word back in the day).
More here if you are really interested - Caution contains some nasty words!
I have the dirtiest mouth of anyone I know, and yet, my ears bleed when I watch Deadwood. I LOVE IT!
The casual and varied means of referring to the female reproductive system on that show is CRAZY!
From what I've read, theres a lot of random combat encounters in Dungeon (partly how D&D is structured) that I'd cut out as fairly meaningless and dull.
For example, the Lotus Dragons looks like a fairly long winded dungone crawl- if my PC's wanted to kick ass there, I'd probably run it more like the Crazy 88's scene in Kill Bill- none stop frenetic action against the whole guild thieves, before going to a climatic battle with the boss.
Equally, Bullywug Gambit would be better as a Hostage Rescue movie than interminable number of fights in seperate rooms.
SJE
Hey, Nick, maybe I'm trying to wring everything out of my art school education as possible, but was Diamondback and the festival sequence in The Bullywug Gambit influenced at all by the film Black Orpheus? Similarities: street festival in a tropical region and a deadly, graceful, silent figure dressed head-to-toe as a skeleton.
I'd recommend the film to anyone that hasn't seen it. The instructors at SVA in charge of the course "History of Illustration: Myth and Symbol" use the film to show us fledgling illustrators how an ancient myth can be updated and recontextualized; a good viewing option for any Dungeon Master that needs a movie evening with a spouse/significant other/friend that's sick of swords and sorcery, but will still get the adventure writing wheels turning.
From what I've read, theres a lot of random combat encounters in Dungeon (partly how D&D is structured) that I'd cut out as fairly meaningless and dull.
For example, the Lotus Dragons looks like a fairly long winded dungone crawl- if my PC's wanted to kick ass there, I'd probably run it more like the Crazy 88's scene in Kill Bill- none stop frenetic action against the whole guild thieves, before going to a climatic battle with the boss.
Equally, Bullywug Gambit would be better as a Hostage Rescue movie than interminable number of fights in seperate rooms.
SJE
The problem with the non stop action sequence for low-level characters, like those in TINH or even TBG, is that they can't handle it. They run out of hit points and spells very quickly. That's why they need to be able to make return trips to the guildhall.
The problem with the non stop action sequence for low-level characters, like those in TINH or even TBG, is that they can't handle it. They run out of hit points and spells very quickly. That's why they need to be able to make return trips to the guildhall.
Not the way I'd run it. I'll explain momentarily.
For anyone reading who believes in "playing D&D by the rules" is a good or desirable thing in itself, please skip this message as I'm sure to cause you physical pain, and I would prefer to avoid a flamewar.
My approach to D&D is a bit more cinematic- I'm trying to have a cool and fun time by emulating cool and fun movies, books, ideas or stories. D&D doesnt always emulate that, so I'm not afraid to throw away the rulebook and judge it myself.
So if I was running the Lotus Dragons like the Crazy 88's from Kill Bill, this is what I'd do.
First off- forget using battle maps with grids- miniatures on a cool map with lots of scenery to use and abuse is fine, but dont get hung up on movement or range- just use the map to illustrate who is surrounded and who is next to a table they can roll along, while attacking half a dozen people.
Second, I'd be flexible with the rules - not just letting PC's quaff potions without going for the AoO, but also things like encouraging badass fighters and barbarians to give the thieves such a stare that the surrounding mob back off and face him one at a time (call it a free action Intimidate if you will). I would reward innovative and dramatic actions- want to roll along a dining table, parrying the flashing blades of 6 thieves to surprise the guild leader at the end an impale her? Sure- call that a Full defence, and get a sneak attack if you succeed on yer Tumble.
Third, while I'd make it a challenging fight (22 thieves vs. 4 PCs) I wouldnt be afraid to drop a thief if the way they were injured was particularly cool. Equally I might not use every Lotus Dragon crit if it wasnt cool or didnt advance the drama.
Essentially I'd hope to judge the combat, so by the end of it, 3 of the PC's are maybe unconcious and the last PC is barely standing and holding a blood drenched katana surrounded by 22 dead Lotus Dragons!
SJE
The problem with the non stop action sequence for low-level characters, like those in TINH or even TBG, is that they can't handle it. They run out of hit points and spells very quickly. That's why they need to be able to make return trips to the guildhall.Not the way I'd run it. I'll explain momentarily.
For anyone reading who believes in "playing D&D by the rules" is a good or desirable thing in itself, please skip this message as I'm sure to cause you physical pain, and I would prefer to avoid a flamewar.
My approach to D&D is a bit more cinematic- I'm trying to have a cool and fun time by emulating cool and fun movies, books, ideas or stories. D&D doesnt always emulate that, so I'm not afraid to throw away the rulebook and judge it myself.
So if I was running the Lotus Dragons like the Crazy 88's from Kill Bill, this is what I'd do.
First off- forget using battle maps with grids- miniatures on a cool map with lots of scenery to use and abuse is fine, but dont get hung up on movement or range- just use the map to illustrate who is surrounded and who is next to a table they can roll along, while attacking half a dozen people.
Second, I'd be flexible with the rules - not just letting PC's quaff potions without going for the AoO, but also things like encouraging badass fighters and barbarians to give the thieves such a stare that the surrounding mob back off and face him one at a time (call it a free action Intimidate if you will). I would reward innovative and dramatic actions- want to roll along a dining table, parrying the flashing blades of 6 thieves to surprise the guild leader at the end an impale her? Sure- call that a Full defence, and get a sneak attack if you succeed on yer Tumble.
Third, while I'd make it a challenging fight (22 thieves vs. 4 PCs) I wouldnt be afraid to drop a thief if the way they were injured was particularly cool. Equally I might not use every Lotus Dragon crit if it wasnt cool or didnt advance the drama.
Essentially...
I'm also a big fan of the montage...a couple of rolls leads to a lot of cool narration of the combat. I LOVE fights of 4 PCs versus tons of expendable thugs! Those are the fights that really make the PCs feel cool!
I've also never once used a battle mat or minis. Though, I have a good time playing in games that do often enough, it's just not my personal DMing style. I hear you SJE.
One of the coolest things about D&D to me is how many ways you can get down on it!!! You can bust the battlemap out and have a really thrilling tactical-strategy encounter (letting that part of your brain go wild!) or you can let all the range/movement/modifiers go liquid into cinema-action land and just focus on the wildly chaotic fun of combat that's narrated like a seriously awesome action movie sequence.
D&D SO GOOD! Gotta get me some more!!!
I've also never once used a battle mat or minis. Though, I have a good time playing in games that do often enough, it's just not my personal DMing style.
I worship at the altar of the Warped Xorn! Many thanks for writing adventures that don't require dolls to play. My Dungeon subscription gives me WAY more than $40/yr. worth of entertainment, but $40 worth of miniatures and battle mats would only get donated to the Salvation Army.
I like her dirty mouth. I've been trying to write up her scandalous tirade against Vanthus, but my rule is no modern cussing, at most using words like "arse." More getting the feel of a cussing tirade, rather then just using modern (anachronistic) cusswords. It's fun, but difficult.
Personnaly, I have a similar problem. I'm going to run Savage Tide in French. Translating the accent and the cussing is very difficult! Anyone have suggestions?
Personnaly, I have a similar problem. I'm going to run Savage Tide in French. Translating the accent and the cussing is very difficult! Anyone have suggestions?
I'm having the same problems with translating it into German. Besides "Arrrr" I don't know of the right piraty tone.
Personnaly, I have a similar problem. I'm going to run Savage Tide in French. Translating the accent and the cussing is very difficult! Anyone have suggestions?I'm having the same problems with translating it into German. Besides "Arrrr" I don't know of the right piraty tone. [/QUOTE
I tried looking at translations of movies like Pirates of the Carribean, but it is no help. The dubbers did not translate the piraty tone. It is simple French.
Just wanted to let you know that the characters have reached the cove and the adventure is running fine. I emphazised the atmosphere of paranoia and kept reminding everyone of the strange howling and moaning noises they could hear through the tunnels. It was still rather battle-intense but only started to feel repetitive when they reached Brissa. I simply cut her of some of her hitpoints and it was no problem.
What they really fell for was the Sea Wyvern. I wish there had been a more detailed room-by-room description of the ship in the adventure, cause I really could have used that.
The deadliest encounter was Ripclaw as he managed to sneak to the rogue and almost tore him apart in one round. Sometimes it's really fun to be DM when your monsters are as deadly as this guy.
As Nicolas Logue encouraged I included the bugbear but the characters didn't bother to talk to him. Unfortunately they haven't reached Harliss yet but I'm already anticipating this encounter.
Personnaly, I have a similar problem. I'm going to run Savage Tide in French. Translating the accent and the cussing is very difficult! Anyone have suggestions?
If it's not too late to help, to my amateur ear, piratey speak sounds a bit like a bad Scottish accent. I don't know why, but I wonder if you could emulate it by speaking French with a bad Scottish accent.
Personnaly, I have a similar problem. I'm going to run Savage Tide in French. Translating the accent and the cussing is very difficult! Anyone have suggestions?If it's not too late to help, to my amateur ear, piratey speak sounds a bit like a bad Scottish accent. I don't know why, but I wonder if you could emulate it by speaking French with a bad Scottish accent.
That's genius! I wonder if it works! :-)
When I ran the Cove, it was very well received, but the Vanderboren Manor got tedious rather quickly. "Hey, it's a new room. More bullywugs. Roll initiative again."
(Although they were genuinely horrified at what the bullywugs were doing to Lliamae, the Jade Raven sorceress)
Bullywug Gambit is the one issue I've missed so far, so I can't speak on the specifics, but I find it hard to believe that the party can invade a house full of critters and have all the critters just wait in their rooms for the characters to find them.
After the first couple fights, I would assume they'd all come flooding out to the now-audible comotion.
That's how I plan on running the Lotus Dragon lair in TINH, anyways. For BG, it sounds like it'd be better off thinking of it as an explosive hostage situation and "Shadowrunning" it, rather than just a room-by-room dungeon crawl.
That whole thing with Lliamae is 'special'...
It was the first thing that shocked me in Dungeon.
Yeah one player even said, "Okay this is weirdness on par with the Japanese..."