The last two paths have ranged far and wide in terms of travel and have dealt with a very grandiose and/or cosmic themes. Why not have an adventure path that revolved around a place, preferably a small community.Based on our discussions to date, my gut tells me that this is where we're headed.
--Erik
Sounds cool...even from that little blurb...I love really developing a smaller area, so that the players really get to "know" the region/city/town whatever and feel like they're part of it. Recurring NPCs and villains are more meaningful then as well.
The last two paths have ranged far and wide in terms of travel and have dealt with a very grandiose and/or cosmic themes. Why not have an adventure path that revolved around a place, preferably a small community.Based on our discussions to date, my gut tells me that this is where we're headed.
--Erik
How very Hommlett of you ;) Dig it.
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I had two ideas that I thought would be interesting for adventure paths.
One idea was about the Shadar-Kai trying to end their shadow curse and return to the material plane. They aren't trying to invade the world they just want to come home but the local area doesn't want such violent fey in their area. There are a lot of shadow, shade, and darkness monsters in the different books that can be used.
The second idea was using the plots of the Yuanti. The snake people aren't trying to conquer the world, they are just trying to gain power in a region. In the beginning the party thinks they are fighting humans (the yuanti that look like humans) and later there are many reptile/serpant type of monsters to fight.
How about this for a provocative idea?
Instead of undead, dragons or outsiders, instead of mind flayers, yuan-ti or drow, instead of tarrasques (or do you really want your big bad end monster to be an intelligence 3 creature?), why not let the main enemy be ... human?
By the way, there was a similar thread on EN World about the next adventure path. Quite a few people suggested to have an adventure path up to level 12 instead of level 20. It would definitely be a solution to the "I don't know which high level monsters to choose as adversaries because the monster manual only has so many - and yes, they are always the same ones" problem.
It would also cater to the taste of many gamers - players and DMs alike - who generally prefer low and mid level play to high level gaming.
Since I hadn't really seen that in this thread, I thought I'd mention the idea. I, for one, am in favor of it.
I'd vote for that 'small town with a big human evil dude at the end'.
Make the town a frontier town, with a whole bunch of neat places to visit and explore. From temple ruins to mountain passes.
There would be tons of adventure possibilities for every level... From a caravan escort mission (just to get there) for those low levels, to clearing out the nearby wilderness of monsters for mid levels, to actually help in the building and even running a castle at high levels (and maybe even defend it against a horde of attacking giants).
Ultradan
I'd vote for that 'small town with a big human evil dude at the end'.
Make the town a frontier town, with a whole bunch of neat places to visit and explore. From temple ruins to mountain passes.
There would be tons of adventure possibilities for every level... From a caravan escort mission (just to get there) for those low levels, to clearing out the nearby wilderness of monsters for mid levels, to actually help in the building and even running a castle at high levels (and maybe even defend it against a horde of attacking giants).
Ultradan
Somehow, upon reading the first lines of your post, the movie "Quigley down under" suddenly came to my mind - perhaps because of Alan Rickman doing the "big evil dude" once again.
Stefan
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I'd vote for that 'small town with a big human evil dude at the end'.
Make the town a frontier town, with a whole bunch of neat places to visit and explore. From temple ruins to mountain passes.
There would be tons of adventure possibilities for every level... From a caravan escort mission (just to get there) for those low levels, to clearing out the nearby wilderness of monsters for mid levels, to actually help in the building and even running a castle at high levels (and maybe even defend it against a horde of attacking giants).
Ultradan
I second that! 20 levels of Keep on the Borderlands baby!
I would vote for an incursion of evil forces from the howling north, set in the wild northlands with a Scandinavian flavor. Adventures would have a lot of wilderness scenarios, role-playing opportunities for uniting various thanes in order to defend the clans, forgotten tombs to explore, and guerrilla attacks against the hordes, culminating in a strike to decapitate the leadership of the incursion (figuratively and literally!).
The adventure would feature lots of human/humanoid opponents, as well as monsters from Scandinavian mythos (linnorms, giants, deep gnomes, etc).
Having said that, there are TONS of campaigns I would love to see.
- An Arabian-style campaign, with djinni and deserts
- An "investigative" campaign, where the party is on the trail of a criminal mastermind
- A time-traveling campaign, where the party has the ability to change the course of history, for better or worse
- An Underdark campaign, where the goal is to recover an artifact or rare material to thwart a surface plague
- A campaign that features an eroding barrier between the far-realms and the prime world.
- ... and more!
Sweet maple syrup! So many ideas. Many of my own ideas came out on other posts...so, my favorite so far are, in order:
1: Iuz--so appropriate after AoW, w/Redhand likely under PC control. Could even reference the wonderful backdrop by Richard Pett.
2: Tarrasque(s)--origin (within D&D realm), varieties of different CRs, etc. (God, a kaiju tarrasque...I gotta build me some o' dat!)
3: Time Travel--really, now. "Chronomancy," if you will, is always treated like the black sheep of fantasy-oriented material. Sure, it's challenging to try to integrate something as possibly chaotic as time travel into a well-established game world, but hey...can't make an omelet without cracking a few orbs of dragonkind. Paizo, I'll offer you a salute if you print/can refer me to a really good time travel adventure, let alone publish an adventure path dealing with the theme.
A few ideas I would like to see further explored include:
Space Travel--what's up there? Maybe Spelljammer? Or maybe mooncalves and moonbeasts! Break out the Lovecraft, it's Nyarlathotep!
Planar Adventuring--exploring the nature of the elemental planes, planes of shadow, Arborea, etc. Though, after seeing the preview for STAP, and what I know in passing of SCAP--though I missed that one--no Abyss, please. I expect I'll have had my fill. (Though, in truth, I'm still finding countless uses for the Fiendish Codex 1, and eagerly await 2. Great stuff.)
Some fantastic ideas floating around in here!
I really like the idea, that's already been mentioned, of the Adventure Path starting off with the PC's being part of a small resistance force in an area that was formally a human/elven/good guys(?) country/territory and has been conquered and it's people subjugated by the githyanki/yuan-ti/bad guys etc. It gives the chance for some guerilla warfare style play which would be fun.
Or even more extreme, only a few of the Players Hanbbook races survive in a post invasion world that has had huge climate change (possibly icy wastes) as a result of the invading forces magical asssault on the planet. These races band together in small mountain fortresses, underground caverns and generally remote places to try to survive. Perhaps no one has ventured out much in 100 years and all these isolated pockets of survivers don't know about each other let alone what is happening in the rest of the world. Maybe these places have breeding programs where they try to help the races survive by breeding superior exemplars of their races to either distill the essence of their race for further procreation, or to be used as the first ones to venture out and find out what the hell is happening out there. Perhaps they're breeding new and strange mixes of the races.
What about a world where the ruling power is a massive enclave of wizards and mages and then psionics arrive (somehow?) and allow the common people to suddenly gain significant power. After many years the psions gain more and more power and territory until the campaign is based around the struggle between these two forces. Each group fears the other as each is especially susceptible to the others powers (use the psionics is not transparent rule). Therefore they remain in their fortresses while getting others to take the battle to the enemy. This one might not suit an Adventure Path as it may be too specific.
I'm gonna run with the Iuz suggestion here. I know, I know, this would inevitably mean more demons but when you look at all the possibilities of an Iuz AP it could easily cover the whole spectrum of monster variety. More specifically, I'd like to see Iggwilv showcased at the climax of the campaign rather than trying to stomp out a fiendish demigod (pretty impossible if you've ever read Iuz's stats). Maybe even a return to the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth - exactly WHO was Tsojcanth anyway? I don't really have a plotline figured out, but I'd still like to see this happen.
The Old One has been dormant for too long...
The Horn of Iggwilv
Pierces the heart
Look over your shoulder
Before you start...
...etc.,etc.
Never in any post or any internal discussion did we consider an adventure path featuring a war between elves and orcs in which elves and orcs would be the sole combatants. The idea was to use a conflict between the elves of Celene, the savage humanoid armies of the Pomarj, and the folk of the Wild Coast as a _backdrop_ for a 12-adventure storyline, not the plot.
FYI.
--Erik
From subsequent posts it seems like this will not be the backdrop for AP4. Sad. Could you keep the idea alive for AP5 or perhaps a mini-arc like the Istivin trilogy? Thanks.
Save the world from impending doom and fight the most powerful demons and dragons and sort. It is a nice storyline, but I'd hate to see it get repeated time and time again.
Seeing how a lot of stories, movies, tv shows, poems, songs, paintings ... are about love, it might be a good idea to use that quintessential emotion as the main motivator for a campaign.
I actually did it in a campaign I DM'ed a couple of years ago and it worked out great. It took five years to get from level 1 to level 12, and while the PCs did still save the world and fought some isolated demons and dragons along the way, it was really nice to have a real human emotion (and also mainly human NPCs) feature as the main focus of the campaign.
Hi Everybody,
First post on the boards, so here goes....
I had an idea for an oriental adventures style AP that I am planning to write up with time and play with friends. Here is my basic idea:
Dark Portents are beggining to show themselves once more, a shadow of a much darker, more evil age. The order of the spirit lands is in flux, and one word is whispered in dark corners.
Oni....
Who will fight for the side of light and freedom, stemming the tide of demonic corruption? How far does the taint go? What is really going on in the Emperors palace?
Many Dark Plots, 1 foul Oni, 4 heroic adventurers and 7 mysterious scrolls...
Welcome to the 7 scrolls adventure path!
Just my 2 pence.
"So what if there's a room packed full of zombies. This'll sort 'em" *appropriate sound effects as maximised, empowered fireball goes winging its way into their midst*
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I'd enjoy an Adventure Path featuring a major story arc that took place in the Underdark. (Not the whole AP, necessarily...but perhaps about a third of it.) It would need a dwarven outpost or an underground city to serve the needs of character development and resupplying, but I think it could be quite exciting to send a party into the depths for some important plot development, and then get them stuck/lost in there (by accident or malevolent design) for one or two consecutive adventures.
When the PCs finally see the light of day again, it should be an enormous relief--until they find the surface world terribly changed in some way. Politically, with a war raging or a massive shift of power? Environmentally, with the effect of some atmosphere-changing artifact? Chronologically, with the effect of some deep underdark emanation that slowed local time for the PCs while the rest of the world moved on without them? Biologically, with some sort of terrible plague that swept the surface world while they were away? In any case, it would be something dramatic and challenging that the heroes will be called upon to correct for the final stage of the Adventure Path.
Just some incidental thoughts. :)
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Well I might as well add my own ideas.
Instead of someone causing a cataclysmic event, mabey it occurs more... naturally? Perhaps the threat of a new ice age thrust our heroes in a race to save the planet though some means. Perhaps our PCs could try to accomplish this through more unconventional means (like opening a portal to the plane of fire or something). Perhaps this would bring about very dangerous creatures (like any of the abominations in the Epic Handbook, I especially liked the one that was bassiaclly a walking arctic continent.)
Or perhaps that death of magic that Boccob is always trying to pervent accually begins to happen and it's up to our PCs to stop it, or at least stave it of another millenia or two.
I'd enjoy an Adventure Path featuring a major story arc that took place in the Underdark. (Not the whole AP, necessarily...but perhaps about a third of it.) It would need a dwarven outpost or an underground city to serve the needs of character development and resupplying, but I think it could be quite exciting to send a party into the depths for some important plot development, and then get them stuck/lost in there (by accident or malevolent design) for one or two consecutive adventures.
When the PCs finally see the light of day again, it should be an enormous relief--until they find the surface world terribly changed in some way. Politically, with a war raging or a massive shift of power? Environmentally, with the effect of some atmosphere-changing artifact? Chronologically, with the effect of some deep underdark emanation that slowed local time for the PCs while the rest of the world moved on without them? Biologically, with some sort of terrible plague that swept the surface world while they were away? In any case, it would be something dramatic and challenging that the heroes will be called upon to correct for the final stage of the Adventure Path.
Just some incidental thoughts. :)
I like the idea, but I would almost say I would want to see more like 5-6 adventures (the later half of the path) take place in the depths. And just imagine (and if anyone can you can, Chris) the strange geography of the Underdark presented in such a campaign: lightless oceans, caverns so large that they have their own weather patterns, tunnels so tight you have to crawl for miles to get through. It could be a major plot point/theme (all the travel, the alien surroundings and such).
GGG
One complaint others have already noted is the lack of ""downtime" in the APs. The party is hustled along at considerable speed with no time off to craft items or pursue sidetreks.
Therefore I would like to see 3 arcs. Something like a Low-level (1-5), Mid (7-14) and High (18-20). Yes, I left deliberate gaps. The idea is that the end of each arc has a solid "mission accomplished" feel. The subsequent arcs should have hints that connect to the prior arcs, but have much more independance between them. Still they would evoke a "Loose Ends Reconnect" feel, like how escaped apprentices to earlier bosses have recovered or the broken conspiracy has been rebuilt. The downtime and side treks gave these other foes time...
This provides some of the advantages of an Adventure Path with plenty of options for a DM to adapt to their players. There would be plenty of suitable adventures in Dungeon to fill the gaps for the lazy DM that just wants 1-20, but it should provide a sufficient difference to distinguish it from the current APs.
EDIT: Belated addition. There could be an Epic(21-24) arc in support. There appears to be interest in such but it would be nice to have a break, allowing some folks to ignore it.
Of course, an issue would be the subsequent compilation hardcover. I expect the gaps to be filled with blatant side treks (or campaign seed) material plus good suggestions of how down time might be spent.
Cheers!
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I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents.
I'd like to see something along the lines of a dramatic failure. The PC embark on a quest intending to save the world. They succeed in doing what they thought would save the world, but sadly, during the moment of triumph, the world is rent with cataclysm, Krynn-style. The PC's are left to pick up the pieces and redeem themselves.
For instance:
The Fellowship of the Ring made it to Mt. Doom and tossed in the ring of power. But, uh-oh!, instead of destroying the remainder of Sauron's life force, it releases it from confinement. Turns out the old legends and prophecies were a load of crap, lies planted by Sauron's agents over the centuries, and Sauron doubles his power almost instantaneously.
I would imagine the AP to be about 8 or 9 adventures (enough time to wrap up one AP over the course of a subscription with just enough time left to get you hooked on the next), with the cataclysm taking place at the end of the third adventure.
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Also, why does an AP have to go from levels 1-20? It sounds awesome in theory, but I don't think many gaming groups that start an AP from the first adventure actually make it all the way to the twelfth. Mine sure hasn't, and come to think of it, I haven't really ever spoken with someone whose group made it all the way through any of them. People lose interest.
Why not do a series of 9 adventures that take a group from level 1 to level 14?
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I'd like to see something along the lines of a dramatic failure. The PC embark on a quest intending to save the world. They succeed in doing what they thought would save the world, but sadly, during the moment of triumph, the world is rent with cataclysm, Krynn-style. The PC's are left to pick up the pieces and redeem themselves.
For instance:
The Fellowship of the Ring made it to Mt. Doom and tossed in the ring of power. But, uh-oh!, instead of destroying the remainder of Sauron's life force, it releases it from confinement. Turns out the old legends and prophecies were a load of crap, lies planted by Sauron's agents over the centuries, and Sauron doubles his power almost instantaneously.
I really like that idea. It would make a great twist. However, I could see some players getting hacked off by being led up the garden path to disaster, and may not see the redeeming part as sufficient pay-off. But you could have the PCs in a support role for the REAL heroes, and then have the latter screw up and leave it to the PCs to clear things up. Again, some plyers may not like playing second fiddle initially, but I could nevertheless see it working as a good surprise.
Also, why does an AP have to go from levels 1-20? It sounds awesome in theory, but I don't think many gaming groups that start an AP from the first adventure actually make it all the way to the twelfth. ....spoken with someone whose group made it all the way through any of them. People lose interest.
My gaming group, focusing on the Realms, consists of 5 to 6 guys (ages 30 to 54), who meet once a week on a Saturday afternoon; we have completed SCAP; we are currently slugging our way through AoW with 14th to 15th levels PCs and we are contemplating STAP in the near future; my nom de plume was a single class human warrior in STAP who finished the path as a 20th level PC; in AoW, I play a 15th level human Favored Soul of Waukeen who is becoming well known for his use of the Bolt of Glory spell (Spell Compendium); in STAP, I am planning on a water genasi cleric of Deep Sashelas though I am not happy the Realms version of STAP borders on a yuan-ti area or that Talona and Savras are the dominant temples in the area....
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But you could have the PCs in a support role for the REAL heroes, and then have the latter screw up and leave it to the PCs to clear things up. Again, some plyers may not like playing second fiddle initially, but I could nevertheless see it working as a good surprise.
but this is also a way for the PCs to bypass the mentioned "first 2 levels of manditory orc bashing" as the NPC heros are most likly higher level...
also a similar book to this type of "we tried to save the world, but in doing so we may doom it" is Villians By Necessity By Eve Foreward. (she is also the one who paints the preveiw D&D minis.) its one of my favorite books, set after good has 'saved the world' from the evil army. In upsetting the balance between good and evil, the world is on a course to implode, so 6 villians must reset the balance.
How about one set in Greyhawk. PC's are involved in the War against Iuz on the Furondian front 1st-10th levels. Later on they are sent/asked to go on a mission deep into the Lands of Iuz to destroy Iuz's SoulHusks. One of the party members is a spy/sleeper cell working for Iuz. Which informs one of the BoneHeart members, which slowly involves the others for their own causes. They are ambushed/captured, change hands between one group of Boneheart to the other, eventually escaping,due to civil war between the Boneheart.Finishing their mission and then fighting their way back home.
Although the realms is my favorite place to adventure, Krynn was extremely fun years ago and still bring fond memories of my earlier gaming days. I feel that an AP based similar to the roles of the heros of the lance could be an exciting AP with enough variations though not too difficult to adapt to the different prefered campaign worlds.
What about an adventure path that used the World Serpent Inn?
Wouldn't Darguun make for some nice Drachensgrab Hills in Eberron? The Earth Dragon could be a Khyber cult and the proximity to Valenar would make for the elf/evil humanoid (not all orcs but goblinoids and such) conflict. The Wild Coast could be part of former Cyre or so.
Haven't read everyone's comlete suggestions, but here's my two cents:
We've seen Demodands (with a demon lord end boss), Undead and Demon Lords featured already. I'd love to see a campaign against Iuz, but he's too tied with demons for that to work (and he's probably too closely tied to Greyhawk for it to fly anyhow.)
I hoping that we see a campaign against the plans of the Scarlet Brotherhood, if they were structured like an Indiana Jones style adventure with the suel imperialists standing in for the nazis. Needless to say, this racially motivated evil organization could probably be easy to swap with similar organizations in other campaigns, as long as they could accomodate evil monks and assassins. I'm not sure if The Father of Obedience would make a suitable end of the campaign boss, though.
When Eric mentioned that a war between celene, ulek states and pomarj would provide a backdrop I immediately thought of the puppet masters behind turrosh mak. The whole earth dragon thing always seemed like a branch of the elemental evil cult to me, and its formed the basis of two adventures already... And the piratical Slavers are very reminiscient of the current AP. Then again, perhaps its time for a foray to the Vault of the Drow?
Haven't read all the posts so apologies if this has been said...
How about something that involves the City of Sigil?
Lets have something even more different than just changing the source of the threat.
Let's change the MO of the group and thus make the game taste different for a change.
How bout a taste of what it feels like from the other end of the spectrum, to be the ones with the driving ambition to develop an army to eventually conquer all?
Doesn't that sound cool? To have a group start from humble beginnings and through force of arms and diplomacy amass a force the region hasn't seen for millenia.
Basically you get to be the bad guys.
Now, some might say theirs a problem with alignment (ie: people can't work together if their eveil or at least don't want to).
Well, this sort of game doesn't have to be limited to just evil PC's. Say the surrounding lands are ruled by corrupt and evil dictators themselves and in reality you are just the heads of a revolution. That sort of game could cator to all alignments.
The game would also be dungeon crawl light and allow for more dynamic encounters (ala umber hulk and tax riot from SCAP) and roleplaying.
What do you guys think?
Cheers,
Sam
I think an all Frostburn/ Arctic setting primarily would be quite awesome. Low-level adventuring would require survival against the very elements and easily set up quests for resources like food, fire and shelter. This would kind of make for a more personable game, with PCs able to help people simply by literally giving them the clothes off their backs. There are a host of cool cold monsters that never get used in Dungeon, llet alone D+D. (The last one I can think of is 'Glacial Season', and that was in the 3.0 days!)