The Age of Worms campaign is almost done (Dragotha is next week and we have a marathon Dawn of the New Age on Labor Day weekend) and I'm gearing up for Savage Tide.
I've been thinking a lot about character options. In the Age of Worms I let the group build pretty much whatever they want from any WotC source. The group tried out warforged, psions, radiant servants and a whole slew of spells from the spell compendium. It was a lot of fun, but it seemed like the Adventure Path was aimed more towards core only groups. For the most part I had to ramp up the challenge rating on every adventure.
For Savage Tide I've decided to go with a system that's very similar to the expansion system used by the RPGA. Players use expansion slots to "buy" feats, spells, classes, magic items and other game mechanic options outside of the PHB. For players that decide they don't want to use expanded material I'm allowing a higher point buy.
Here are the options I'm providing my players:
(1) 32-pt buy, ECL 1 core only character: no expansion slots at all. No prestige classes. Just bring your PHB.
(2) 28-pt buy, ECL 1 core starting character: no expansion slots at first level, one expansion slot every other level starting at 3rd level for a total of 9 non-core character building options. This player gives up quite a large number of starting feats, races and classes.
(3) 25-pt buy, ECL 1 expanded character: 3 expansion slots at 1st level plus 1 slot every other level for a total of 12 non-core character building options.
(4) Elite array (15/14/13/12/10/8) ECL 2 expanded character, full expansion slots (12), 1 bonus feat *or* ECL 2 race at ECL 1.
(5) Non-elite array (13/12/11/10/9/8) ECL 3 expanded character, full expansion slots (12), either (a) ECL 3 race at +0 ECL *or* (b) 1 bonus feat *and* ECL 2 race at ECL 1.
I had toyed with the idea of allowing ECL 4 for the standard array (11/11/11/10/10/10) to allow for races like gnolls, but there are some templates like half-dragon that I didn't think was fair even with the ability score reductions.
I'm adding the ECL packages because I have a player who wants to start as a first level grey orc druid (ECL 2) from Forgotten Realms. (The game takes place in Eberron, but the grey orc follows the flavor of the Eberron druid very well). LA penalties for primary spellcasters would make the build sub optimal, so this sytem should help balance this out. It would also let some players choose a drow without being overpowered from the rest of the group.
I'm also thinking of giving everyone a bonus feat from the Savage Tide Player's Guide. Is anyone else doing this?
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am actually breaking my group OUT of eberron for a bit (well, 1 of 3 games, anyways), and will be using the following:
Core 4 (PHB, DMG, MM, XPH)
Spell Compendium
Complete Series (arcane/divine/etc)
Shifters/Changelings from ECS, as well as the Extreme Explorer, Master Inquisitive, and shifter/changeling/general feats from ECS
Action Points
30 pt. buy, standard allotment
with the following rules changes:
sorcerers get d6 hd, and Eschew Materials at 1st lvl
death occurs at -Con or -10, whichever is lower
massive damage threshold in effect (not sure of the limit yet, will be similar to the d20 modern rules, where failure puts you at -1, not instant death)
the following are not permissible: Thrallherd, Hulking Hurler, Warhulk, Frenzied Berserker.
all spells/feats/etc. will use the most current rules/errata (with the exception of the astral construct change in Complete Psionic...stupidity itself).
starting at 1st lvl, playable races include anything in the books listed above. substitution levels may be negotiated on an individual basis.
i think that's everything.
yay, now i can just copy/paste and hand this out to my players.
thanks, Takasi!
-the hamster
We're going old-school style: PHB, DMG, and MM. Maybe select things from other books (e.g. the Legendary Captain prestige class from Stormwrack), but only on a case-by-case basis.
So far we have (tentatively) a half-orc ranger and a dwarf rogue, with two draft choices to be named later.
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I want to use DMG, PHB, MM, DMG2, PHB2, and The Arms and Equipment Guide (more for the different materials for armor and weapons than anything else). I want to use a homebrew race called the Bovan Minotaur (similar to the Goliath, med-size, powerful build, +1 LA) and to fit them into society I just figured on replacing 35-40% of the Dwarven population with them and giving them a cool homeland. Don't know if I want to set it in a homebrew world or a generic Greyhawk environment.
So I may be using the D&D Gazetteer for the world.
I will be replacing magic items with a variant weapon/armor system I developed which uses enhancement gems and socketed weapons/armor with a variety of quality levels.
Should be pretty cool, first actual campaign I will be DMing for over 10 years.
FH
core books, Complete series (except Psion), Stormwrack, and maybe some creature series (Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, etc.)
When I first setup to DM I was running a converted version of the Northern Journey campaign you can find online. I inserted all sorts of rules about what I thought was best. Only parts of certain books were allowed... I even disallowed riding dogs as I didn't like them. All of that turned out to be a bad decision. My group was not as happy as they would have been otherwise.
Fastforward to the start of my Shackled City campaign and I decided to go the other way. Everything WOTC was allowed. The only caveat being if there was an updated version or errata the newest version had to be used. Things worked out much better (though I will admit to breathing a sigh of relief when a player who was going to play a psion switched to a goliath fighter at the last moment). The players just seemed happier and I never really had any issues with unbalanced characters. Though to be fair I did not reach high levels with the group.
So... if/when I get the chance to run STAP I will be allowing all WOTC produced materials (including Dragon in that mix... not fair I can pull the adventures from Dungeon if they can't use Dragon).
Now, the only caveat I have is that I must have access to the source...
Sean Mahoney
I suppose there were a couple of concepts I disallowed though. The first was using the BoED to take pacificist abilities and such. Because it would affect the party around that particular PC I put it up to a group vote and it was voted down. Next was a character who was hiring mercs to follow him around... slows down play too much, not advised. Combat seems to slow as it is, people were getting bored.
Sean Mahoney
My campaign is a ways off, but I'm allowing pretty much any WotC book, as long as the concept is not TOO out there. I'm even allowing monstrous PC's as some districts in Sasserine seem to strike me as being perfect places for outcast monsters to live.
For those who are planning to use Stormwrack, what is in it that makes it a good resource for the players? (I don't own it but might if you can convince me as a DM that I should really buy this book for this adventure).
I was going to not permit XPH on this adventure, only permitted books:
Players Handbook
Players Handbook 2
Spell Compendium
Dungeon Masters Guide
Monster Manual
And Dragon magazine related stuff the comes in the companion articles.
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I'm using either the standard "4d6 drop the lowest", or the "4d6 in order, swap two, re-roll one" methods. Personally, I don't mind a nice point-buy system, but there's at least one vocal opponent to that system, and most other players seem to like the feeling of "earning" that 18. Nice to see, really. 'Course, when one guy rolls kick-ass stats and another's barely above standard array, things can get hairy.
I also like to give the PCs one piece of special equipment relating to their backstory, a la Forgotten Realms' starting equipment packages. For instance, in AoW, the warlock's got an old sacrificial dagger (masterwork dagger) from the cult of Tharizdun she was born into, the knight's got the old armor (masterwork full plate--currently functions as chain mail) from his long-dead hero/role model that he's repairing, and the scout recieved a fine steel machete (masterwork shortsword) as a gift after serving his term at the garrison.
I'm not disallowing any WoTC books- so far at least. Mostly because I'm the only one that buys/reads any of the books other than the core, really. I've got one of my players who's got a decent library, and my girlfriend's been reading up a bit on some stuff, and I've got one player who would totally min/max the hell out of his characters if he knew about half of what's out there, but none of them has really sat down and devoted the time to tackling my 80ish-book collection. So really it'll probably be:
* The 3 core rulebooks
* PHB II
* Stormwrack
* The four "Complete" books
* Book of Nine Swords (the little lady's really taken to the Swordsage class)
* Possibly XPH/Complete Psionic if someone takes a shining to playing a psionic character.
Generally, my players have a tendency to see all those books (and magazines) and go into convulsions. So, unless I say, "hey, you should look into this," it's not much of a concern.
But I mean really, did picking up an issue of Dragon ever hurt anyone, aside from a papercut or nonlethal bludgeoning damage from a rolled-up copy? Er, well, other than the one issue I got covered in sepia snake sigils. Thanks, Elminster. Real funny.
My apologies for the unnecessary length of this post.
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For those who are planning to use Stormwrack, what is in it that makes it a good resource for the players?
Stormwrack's got some nice prestige classes, base class substitution levels, new races, new feats, new equipment (magical and mundane), descriptions and information on a bunch of ships, new aquatic-themed spells, tips and hints for how to make a nautiocal-style character, and a nice write-up on pretty much all the sea gods from the big three campaigns (Eberron's the Mockery is miscredited as the wrathful storm god instead of the Devourer, however, but it's an easy fix).
It also has a lot of info for DMs, such as aquatic hazards, a nice simplified ship combat system that focuses more heavily on narrative and getting the PCs onto the enemy's vessel (and vice versa), some sample quick-run adventures with everything statted out for your DMing pleasure, and of course all the stuff for the PCs can be turned on them at your leisure.
Honestly, it's the only one of the terrain-based WoTC books I own, though I'm looking into picking up the other two, for they taunt me and my incomplete book collection. I'd reccommend it generally for those interested in pirtatey action on the high seas, but especially for STAP. They even mention the planar oceans, though each section on them's pretty small.
Concur with N'wah that Stormwrack is generally useful. I particularly like the "narrative" combat system for ship to ship battles and the fact that they have reasonably simple tables for how weather affects shiphandling and movement. Some of the aquatic races might make a good addition to this campaign--I'm particularly thinking of hadozees and darfellans. The ships (especially the ones with plans) are also very useful--you can use them if you need to come up with something on the fly. And having more aquatic monsters for random encounters or replacements if you don't like the published encounters is always a good thing.
N'wah--I have Frostburn and am quite fond of it. I'm still waiting to have a chance to run a campaign in my homebrew world, taking PCs to the Island of the Skraelings, the Isfjell Mountains, and the Ice Castle of Zansarbole. It sucks when you have more ideas than you have time to develop and play through.
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It sucks when you have more ideas than you have time to develop and play through.
Boy, tell me about it. I've got about a dozen campaign ideas I want to run, but what with my group's limited playing availability (stupid real life, getting in the way of things again) most of them are just shelved indefinitely.
I'm actually modifying the aventi, mostly in fluff content, to be used as a race I had in mind for a homebrew, and I'm plopping most of the ideas from that campaign somewhere in the vast unexplored oceans near the Isle of Dread. One of my players is thinking about playing an aventi, so it should make for a nice side-trek adventure to go find the lost aventi city now overrun with a bustling port town exporting their ancient relics for a tidy profit.
Actually, the STAP fills a few of my "wanna-run" game ideas quite nicely. I've been looking for an excuse to run a group of seafaring adventurers for years, but never really got to pull it off. My last attempt, a mini-campaign set in Faerun's Shining South, got waylaid by a halfling rogue the group so despised that they followed him across the planes before the game fell apart. Who knew "the one that got away" would make the PCs so mad that they'd even ignore the reward they were supposed to collect after a successful adventure?
I've looked over Frostburn quite a bit, and it certainly appealed to me. If there's one setting I love almost as much as tropical piratey action, it's biting cold tundra. And it's a bit easier to convince a group to explore the cold northern climes than it is to convince them to get on a boat sometimes.
Core books for me also, but i have decided as flavor to let the specific prestige classes or other classes from other books (ie. dread pirate, duelist,swashbuckler etc..)
RPJ
Core Books + Savage Tide Players Guide + Dragon Articles related to Savage Tide + (MAYBE) stormwrack / Freeport items for piratey goodness...
But then, I am planning on running this as a series of marathon sessions, once a month. So I don't want any confusion over rules or new spells/feats/abilities slowing things down.
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I have allowed pretty much anything except I have disallowed the Warforged race and the Artificer class because they don't fit very well with the flavor of the campaign I am running (it is just generic D&D, although probably closest to Greyhawk in terms of what is there). Other than those exceptions I had the group role 4d6 for ability scores drop the lowest and reroll 1's. They can play a race with an ECL up to +3 to start, but follow the rules for experience (that is they won't actually gain a level until fourth level if they take a ECL +3 character since they start out as 3rd level equivalent characters). Noone took anything like that though. I have two Humans, a Halfling, and a Half Elf.
So far it has worked out quite well.
I am also using something similar to expansion slots for this campaign. Each character receives one expansion slot and I have told the group that they may receive more as the campaign progresses.
I plan to dole out more expansion slots to the party as the NPCs in the STAP receive more non-core stuff.
I am also using something similar to expansion slots for this campaign. Each character receives one expansion slot and I have told the group that they may receive more as the campaign progresses.
I plan to dole out more expansion slots to the party as the NPCs in the STAP receive more non-core stuff.
Could you please explain what you mean by expansion slot? Are you talking about extra feats? I am guessing that you are talking about something else.
The class dread pirat what book its it in??
Stormwrack, me thinks.
You'll find the Dread Pirate in Complete Adventurer (and also in Song and Silence if you want 3.0...).
Core Books
PHB2
Spell Compendium
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
Races of Destiny
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Living Greyhawk Deities 2.0 (for cleric deity choices)
Stormwrack
28 point buy and player's choice of one bonus district feat from the STPG or 4 skill points in any craft or profession skill at first level if the character is a Sasserine native.
Any races with a +1 or less level adjustment. Races with a level adjustment begin play as 1st level in a class with 0 xp, and do not advance until they have the experience for 3rd.
No oriental classes from the Complete books, except for ninja, as ninjas rock (well not really, but they're damn cool).
No evil characters, but morally ambiguous neutrals are fine.
My players are very excited about the affiliations and I hope to add a lot of additional material into the early adventures of the campaign as they work toward the goals of their chosen organizations. We've already decided to handle all of the affiliation stuff by email (except if actual dice rolling or combat is required, which will be done before or after our scheduled sessions).
I think it should add a lot of mystery and suspense to the campaign when the characters and their players don't know where each others loyalties truly lie.
Core Books
PHB2
Eberron Books
Spell Compendium
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
Races of Destiny
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Stormwrack (probably not races though)
I'm setting this in Eberron. I actually was running a campaign last year that was very similar in some aspects to this campaign, and I think this will help me revive it. I let it drop because of real life issues giving me not enough time to prepare and this will help relieve some of that time needed.
Evil characters allowed, but need to have a reason that they would stick with the party.
Not sure if I'm gonna do point buy or rolls yet... probably point buy... 28 or 32.
Is there any where that the oriental classes would fit in Eberron? I'll probably have to disallow them too...
I'm using:
PHB
DMG
MM
MM2
MM3
MM4
FF
PHB2
DMG2
Forgotten Realms Books
Eberron Books (for races, feats, action points, Xen'drik stuff)
Spell Compendium
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
XPHB
Complete Psionic
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Races of Eberron
Stormwrack
Sandstorm
Draconomicon
Dragon Compendium
Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss
Book of Exalted Deeds
Most of these books are only going to have the odd page used, for maybe one monster, map, feat or some option or other that a player has selected (which I'll just photocopy and put in a binder for easy use and so I dont have a mountain of books at the table.)
Is that all?...
(I should talk)
And then of course theres all those random monsters, rules, class acts articles and ideas that I'm bound to see in Dragon and Dungeon that I simply have to use... ;)
Dragon Magic is out and I might get that on friday...
:O
My list is almost identical to R-Type's, just exchange the Eberron books and Complete Psionic for Unearthed Arcana and Savage Species.
Methinks I need to invest in a stout library cart.... :)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
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Is that all?...
(I should talk)And then of course theres all those random monsters, rules, class acts articles and ideas that I'm bound to see in Dragon and Dungeon that I simply have to use... ;)
Dragon Magic is out and I might get that on friday...
:O
I can hear me mum from me childhood now: "don't you have enough of thos books yet?!?"
I can hear me mum from me childhood now: "don't you have enough of thos books yet?!?"Is that all?...
(I should talk)And then of course theres all those random monsters, rules, class acts articles and ideas that I'm bound to see in Dragon and Dungeon that I simply have to use... ;)
Dragon Magic is out and I might get that on friday...
:O
Blasphemy - you can never have enough gaming books!!!
(Or magazines, or documents, or software, or fashion accessories, or dice, or..... );)
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Could you please explain what you mean by expansion slot? Are you talking about extra feats? I am guessing that you are talking about something else.
See my original post:
"Players use expansion slots to "buy" feats, spells, classes, magic items and other game mechanic options outside of the PHB."
In our Age of Worms campaign it was a free for all, use any book you want campaign. The players liked that, but it's a lot more work to balance the material from the AP (which is more or less built from core only material) with characters made with very diverse builds.
IMC if you use expansion slots you get to choose 3 noncore resources at first level. This can be a feat, a spell, a race, a class or an item; anything that's not in the Player's Handbook requires an expansion slot. You then get one additional slot at every odd level (3,5,7,etc.).
Could you please explain what you mean by expansion slot? Are you talking about extra feats? I am guessing that you are talking about something else.See my original post:
"Players use expansion slots to "buy" feats, spells, classes, magic items and other game mechanic options outside of the PHB."
In our Age of Worms campaign it was a free for all, use any book you want campaign. The players liked that, but it's a lot more work to balance the material from the AP (which is more or less built from core only material) with characters made with very diverse builds.
IMC if you use expansion slots you get to choose 3 noncore resources at first level. This can be a feat, a spell, a race, a class or an item; anything that's not in the Player's Handbook requires an expansion slot. You then get one additional slot at every odd level (3,5,7,etc.).
That's a very intriguing concept Takasi - is that the sum of the "Expansion Slot" house rule, or is there more details that you want to share?
That's a very intriguing concept Takasi - is that the sum of the "Expansion Slot" house rule, or is there more details that you want to share?
There's more information in the original post for players. For instance, players who opt out of expansions get higher point buy.
There are a few other things I'm trying to iron out. One player asked if he needed an expansion to buy twine from the Arms and Equipment guide. I told him his character would need to find a merchant who is selling it. Also if a character finds something, like a magic item, that is not in the core books he can keep it without using an expansion slot. If he wants to buy it without doing any work for it he'll have to burn a slot. I've also toyed with giving expansions a set gp amount so that players can purchase up to a certain amount of non core equipment.
For spells I'm considering allowing players to trade expansions later on, provided they never use the old expanded spell again. Also, as always I reserve the right to ban certain material.
I put the Expansions list under Possessions in the stat block. I like being able to see all of the non core stuff a character has at a glance; one of the minor issues I had in our previous campaign is the number of sourcebooks I had to reference just to understand a character concept.
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another explanation (not that Takasi didn't do the concept justice) can be found under the Mark of Heroes or Xen'drik Expeditions RPGA Campaign Standards .pdf's
check out the wizards.com page, look for the RPGA icon, clicky and your in. (sorry, don't have the link to hand, and have a cold, so much thinking is out)
-the hamster
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Right now our game is allowing the core three (PHB, DMG and MM)
We are also pulling what ever works from PHBII, DMGII Spell Compendium and UA.
So far I have seen Races of Desitny used and Complete Warrior, the STAP players booklet, which rules btw. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the other Complete books soon for more feats and Prestige classes.
I also think we will be trying to see who will become either a Dread Pirate or a Legendary Captain.