I can understand your frustration, but to tell you the truth, the 3.5 rules are much improved over previous editions, and the fact that you have to keep better track of your movment and relation to other "characters" came about before there was an official miniatures line (BTW, there was a metal miniatures relauch that went nowhere as well, called Chainmail, and as a longtime fan, I'm sure you can see where that name came from).
Not buying the game or supplements at all is not going to convince the "evil corporate entity" to make Greyhawk supplements. Hasbro has already mentioned that it view D&D as a brand, not a game, so if the name makes money as video games, or board games, or minis, that what it will become. Greyhawk fans not buying RPG products will only serve to kill D&D as an RPG, not revive Greyhawk.
The other thing I am curious about is just exactly what form of support do Greyhawk fans want? I still hear some die hard Greyhawk fans complain about the events of From the Ashes, as well as anything that might change he established setting that happens in the RPGA Living Greyhawk modules. How many times can you republish the initial campaign setting without any major changes? Do you want more Greyhawk specific modules?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Greyhawk die out either, since I can remember the Big Three being Greyhawk, DragonLance, and Forgotten Realms. I always viewed Greyhawk as a sister setting to the Forgotten Realms, similar in overall rules and genre, but very different in execution and flavor. The first time I actually got to be a player (I DMed for my friends for YEARS before I got to play as one of them DMed) it was in Greyhawk, and perhaps that is why in my mind I CAN'T DM the setting, as I am geared toward viewing it from the ground up.
The point is, if the whole line has bad sales, then Hasbro is likely to just chuck the whole thing and keep the minis, the MMORPGS and the like, but perhaps, if you stay as part of the community, and don't buy the things you don't like, for example, the Eberron and Forgotten Realms campaign products, you might have a chance to influence a trend.
I want more GH content, but it's not an either/or thing. I will continue to buy any product I choose to buy. Crusading for any one campaign setting and advocating not purchasing another is just pointless and hurts the hobby overall. Buy what you want, play in whatever setting you want. Keep the pressure on for WotC to publish GH content. Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't, but boycotting WotC and stamping your foot in a hissy fit isn't going to help D&D overall.
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The other thing I am curious about is just exactly what form of support do Greyhawk fans want?
I think a lot of the Greyhawk fans are looking for a definitive campaign sourcebook, similar to the ones put out for FR and Eberron. Then maybe a module or two, much like "Sons of Gruumsh" for FR, and you would probably sastify a lot of people.
but perhaps, if you stay as part of the community, and don't buy the things you don't like...
That is what I do. I bought some of the FR stuff, but I haven't purchased a single Eberron product (except when Dungeon or Dragon do Eberron specific articles).
To tell you the truth, I myself wouldn't mind some campaign settings coming back, breifly, in a formal like the Ghostwalk campaign options, where you might put out a hardcover book, not a whole line, that pretty much sums up the setting, and allows people to use it if they like. Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Mystara, and Greyhawk would all be ripe for this kind of treatment. If one REALLY sells well, it might tell you where your trends are as far as settings go.
As mentioned in another thread, sometimes cross interest is a good thing as well. I have always been a diehard Forgotten Realms fan, but Ravenloft and DragonLance both caught my attention during 2nd edition. Then again, once there was also Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. the problems actually started. By default, I fall back to FR as my main setting in a case like that.
The other thing I am curious about is just exactly what form of support do Greyhawk fans want?
Sourcebooks that support open ended play. An updated hardback campaign setting book. Faiths of. Magic of. Powers of. Regional sourcebooks. Historical sourcebooks. Web articles. Artwork. Adventures. Novels. Miniatures. Video games. Lunchboxes.
The OP should look for a gameday in his area and participate in a Living Greyhawk campaign. There is a great deal of information about Greyhawk through the RPGA.
The setting is now designed as a fan run campaign. In order to get information about Greyhawk, you need to participate in RPGA adventures. You can DM adventures provided by other RPGA members. There is a great deal of information about Greyhawk in these RPGA adventures, and the more you participate the more you'll learn about the setting. For example, let's say you've played in a dozen or so RPGA adventures in the Pale and a few meta regional adventures. You probably now know just enough to write a Pale adventure.
The current state of Greyhawk is the result of hundreds of amateur authors detailing the world's areas, organizations and events. Greyhawk is now very well suited for designing one shot convention modules that take place in small regions of the world.
However, now that Greyhawk is controlled by the RPGA it is very difficult for a DM to sift through the content designed by hundreds of people and provide a very open ended experience outside of the RPGA.
The RPGA uses sourcebooks developed by WotC. If WotC developed new Greyhawk sourcebooks they could potentially step on the toes of Living Greyhawk designers and alienate existing RPGA fans of Greyhawk. It's definately possible to condense all of these details into traditional campaign setting sourcebooks but it would require a great deal of collaboration between the RPGA and WotC to make them consistent with the RPGA.
That actually gets to the heart of what I am wondering. If you have a Greyhawk hardcover come out, what year do you set it in? You have some longtime Greyhawk fans that have jumped wholeheartedly into the Living Greyhawk campaign, and would want it to be set according to the LG events, but you have others that, since they weren't invested in, or present for, any changes, they would not really want it to include said changes.
Based on my experiences the overwhelming majority of people who play in Greyhawk play through the RPGA.
People like the OP who greatly dislike WotC usually play in a homebrew or use a 3rd party setting. There are a lot of campaign settings out there that are gritty and similar to Greyhawk that use the D&D rules. Kingdoms of Kalamar for example is not only d20 it's an officially licensed D&D setting.
In addition to d20, there's also d20 lite games that provide the feel of old school, like Tunnels and Trolls. You also have products like Hackmaster that use the old rules and introduce settings identical to Greyhawk.
Our table plays Eberron and uses WotC books for D&D. For a gritty, low magic Greyhawk like world we play the new Warhammer FRPG. We get our fill of Greyhawk when we go to RPGA events.
That actually gets to the heart of what I am wondering. If you have a Greyhawk hardcover come out, what year do you set it in? You have some longtime Greyhawk fans that have jumped wholeheartedly into the Living Greyhawk campaign, and would want it to be set according to the LG events, but you have others that, since they weren't invested in, or present for, any changes, they would not really want it to include said changes.
The approach they took in the Revised Sourcebook for Star Wars is the tactic I would take - they give examples of what's accessible in what time frame, the differences, etc. Nothing a good timeline can't handle, similar to what was done in the FRCS. Historical overview with a long timeline listing.
That actually gets to the heart of what I am wondering. If you have a Greyhawk hardcover come out, what year do you set it in? You have some longtime Greyhawk fans that have jumped wholeheartedly into the Living Greyhawk campaign, and would want it to be set according to the LG events, but you have others that, since they weren't invested in, or present for, any changes, they would not really want it to include said changes.
I think the answer is definitely late 590s. LG is, by any reasonable definition, canon -- official sources aren't going to reject any part of it.
Unfortunately, I can think of two problems with such a product:
1) Low return on investment (WotC doesn't seem to support anything without heavy novel or mini spinoffs).
2) Any additions to canon would arguably interfere with the freedom LG's staff currently enjoys.
Though I would pay sinful, obscene amounts of money for such a hardcover.
Jack
Though I would pay sinful, obscene amounts of money for such a hardcover.
I feel the same way - I'm planning to lay down the quatloos for Ptolus and I would do the same for a Greyhawk book.
I think a lot of the Greyhawk fans are looking for a definitive campaign sourcebook, similar to the ones put out for FR and Eberron. Then maybe a module or two, much like "Sons of Gruumsh" for FR, and you would probably sastify a lot of people.
Wisdom from Aberzombie. My thoughts exactly!
It's painful to see FR hardcover after hardcover, and now the stream of Eberron books, and zero Greyhawk. We need a good campaign setting for 3.5 -- one that doesn't just reprint the country info (which has been done again & again) but one that expands it. We need more info on the gods (the recent Draagon articles on Boccob et al. were in the right vein to be sure), some more info on various regions, etc. Finally we need adventures mired deep in the setting. Gods, I'd love to see an adventure that really explored some of the more interesting nooks of Oerth!Here's an idea for the Hasbro marketing types: Put out one Greyhawk hardcover similar to the FR Campaign book. Not a light, dash-off effort, but a book written by folks well versed in the setting. See how it sells. I'm willing to bet it flies off the shelves.
Though I would pay sinful, obscene amounts of money for such a hardcover.I feel the same way - I'm planning to lay down the quatloos for Ptolus and I would do the same for a Greyhawk book.
Yes, yes, yes....our gaming group will buy Ptolus and I would be willing to spend nearly as much for a 600 page GH hardcover--complete with everything that the FRCS has-spells, personalities, country descriptions, prestige classes, feats....I want it all in one package, even if the country descriptions have been done somewhere else before. I want it all, isn't that the American way?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Welcome to the year 2006! Yes, sir, while you were frozen in a block of ice, many things have come to pass. Your friend and mine, TSR (or T$R as the cool kids called it back in the day) is dead and buried, bought out first by the money loving gaming hating bastards at WotC, and then, the evil institution of Hasbro. Dark times have truly fallen, as we cower beneath the tyranny of D&D 3.5 and the Open Gaming License.
But now, I see the Truth. With the stunning insight of a person who has walked into the middle of a conversation and declared both parties to be wrong, you have shown the one true way. 3.5 is a sham. It's like pokemon with dice and minatures, but dumbed down for 8 year olds and exceptionally bright rhemus monkeys.
The humanity...
G#$ d#~n, wtf is with all the anti-corporate crap going around the board these days? If I read another "WotC only exists to make money, enslave children, and ruin Christmas" post I think my eyes will rupture.
Yes, yes, yes....our gaming group will buy Ptolus and I would be willing to spend nearly as much for a 600 page GH hardcover--complete with everything that the FRCS has-spells, personalities, country descriptions, prestige classes, feats....I want it all in one package, even if the country descriptions have been done somewhere else before. I want it all, isn't that the American way?
Amen to that! "Give it up, now!"
I told my other half about Ptolus, how it was pretty much all in a city (he adores urban adventures/campaigns) and he bluntly asked me "So when are we gettin' it?"
I want that same feeling for a Greyhawk book. Shiny pretties...my precioussssss....
I regret that we've got more FR fans discussing this than Greyhawk fans. What do Greyhawk fans want? Roughly equal representation in terms of quantity of published materials. I don't play RPGA and I don't readily have access to much of it. I would prefer to be able to buy a new Greyhawk product every 3 to 6 months. WoTC, for whatever their reasons are choosing to crank out FR/Ebberon products to the exclusion of Greyhawk ones. I want to see a roughly equal number of Greyhawk products, if the sales can reasonably justify such. And I believe they CAN. I think that Greyhawk supporters equal those of other campaigns of the game. Furthermore, 3.0 & 3.5 has decided from the get-go to call Greyhawk the "Core Campaign". Why they go to the trouble to do so, and then produce all of only 1 published adventure, Cook's Return to the Temple of E.E., is a mystery to me. I think if given equal treatment and adequate support, Greyhawk will outsell FR or Ebberon products (novels not included) any day.
Furthermore, the emphasis on FR over Greyhawk existed all the way back in the 1990's and 2nd edition. Greyhawk fans have endured a long time with minimal attention to our preferred setting. I don't think it's asking too much to have 2-4 new Greyhawk products released each year. Heaven knows there are designers loyal to the setting, why aren't they being offered opportunities to produce products? I think 15+ years of FR product dominance has produced every concievable supplement, many painfully unnecessary; and I'm expecting to see a FR Telephone directory for Waterdeep to be released any time now. Such repetetive and tedious detail created for the FR setting, is unjustifiable when other settings can't even get a single hardback book in print. If the money is that much better for FR, then I have to eat crow, but I don't think it is.
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I remember about 6 years ago a group of my pals were getting a game up. The gamemaster said, "I think I am going to run this thing in the Forgotten Realms. The reason being, essentially, is it is the setting that GETS THE MOST SUPPORT, and I believe it will probably continue to do so. Any Greyhawk supporters, I'm sorry..." None of us had any qualms about it; he didn't want to do a lot of world development (we all were starting to leave college and get REAL JOBS at the time) and we just wanted to kill orcs or whatever. I never personally felt an overwhelming love OR hatred of FR, but what he said was true.
Driz'zt and Elminster stayed out of our adventures, the same way that most celebrities and sports heroes (generally) stay the heck out of our real-world lives.
I think the old adage, "if you build it they will come," applies well to this argument. Generally speaking you have 2 choices from WOTC: FR or Eberron. I know you can homebrew; I've done it before. I think that WOTC banks on it such that anybody who wants a 'classical' D&D feel WILL buy the FR stuff, Eberron will take care of anybody who wants a curveball, and the Greyhawk guys will grumble some like they always do but they'll buy the FR stuff if they want the 'old school' fix.
Speaking as an ardent Greyhawk fan I want the following:
A 3.5 Campaign book that provides an overview of the world, deities, major npcs, regional feats, prestiege classes and a sample adventure (much in the vein of the FR or Eberron source books). This can either take into account Living Greyhawk or not, as long as it explains the major changes that have occured in detail.
Regional overview books.
More miniature support.
Is that so much to ask?
I started D&D again after a long hiatus just when Eberron was being released so I picked that up as my campaign setting. Now, I am kinda over it so have moved to GH. Ironically, I selected GH over FR because it didn't have a plethora of books for it. I got the Gazetter and some PDFs from the Paizo store and I am all set.
I don't see any of it as a waste and the fluff is still good regardless of the rules set it was written under.
Cheers, Chris.
The sad point of this post is to bait people into feeling stupid, and there is a great likelihood the original poster will ever come back to answer. I say good riddance, and keep your righteous indignation.
This is ANOTHER lame "Hasbro/WotC/TSR ruined the game" post and ANOTHER tired "the game is ruined by these new rules which I obviously have not played long enough to form an intelligent opinion of, but I will bash anyways."
I've got news for this individual: This is about the oldest, saddest accusation in RPG history. I have been playing for 17 years now. I recall complaints at the end of the 80s about 2nd edition, and about how horrible TSr was without Gary Gygax. I recall the rumors of how WotC was going to turn D&D into Magic:The Gathering. I remember the end of the world 3rd edition stuff. I recall Hasbro being the apocalypse at WotC. All of it is not only the same, but illogical. Most of the arguments amount to "it is broken/no good/corporate/whatever, but I cannot specifically detail a personal instance of having a problem."
Get over yourself.
If you like old D&D, super. Play it. But don't meander into message boards where we dscuss a game we enjoy to just accuse of being corporate pawns.
Yeah, Hasbro has destroyed the game. Whatever. To say that we are causing the demise of the setting is foolish. This is the same crap you hear in punk rock circles, about how you can't buy ANYTHING made by a corporation, because it MUST be bad. How dare we enjoy the works of talented authors employed by the lawful owners of the game. We must have horrible taste!
Whatever, man. Retreat to your garage and leave us to our game. We'll find a CONSTRUCTIVE way to enjoy the game, and Greyhawk too. Take your naysaying elsewhere.
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Speaking as an ardent Greyhawk fan I want the following:
A 3.5 Campaign book that provides an overview of the world, deities, major npcs, regional feats, prestiege classes and a sample adventure (much in the vein of the FR or Eberron source books). This can either take into account Living Greyhawk or not, as long as it explains the major changes that have occured in detail.
I support that idea : a very complete book, the world of GH in 596 CY (including an update for the events depicted in SCAP and AoW) !!
Regional overview books.
More miniature support.
Regional overview books : "marklands", "Iuz the evil", "Ivid the Undying" and "the scarlet brotherhood" updated as of in 596 CY, with 3.5 rules.
Also Baklunish states, Sheldomar valley, barbarian peninsula, northern states (from rovers to wolf, from perrenland to Ratik),central Flanaess (GH city, Bright lands, Celene, verbobonc, dyvers and Urnst states), mid-western states (Ulek states, Pomarj, Hold) ....
So many areas that could be covered either as soft covers (less than 100 pages), or as hard covers (more than 120 pages).
I don't realy care so much about the mini support (there is Mordenkainen and scarlet brotherhood monk : there would be so many minis to bring at our game table, needing a complete GH set, with knights of dispatch, cleric of Heironeous, Iuz, Melf, Tenser, Philidor the blue mage, so many ...), but why not ?
Greyhawk has been set free: I can develop it as I need to and not worry that a future WotC release will upset my applecart.
Great, ain't it?
Now that you put it that way, I like the way you put it.
It's MY Greyhawk, and its not going down under heavy canonade.
You're always free to do anything you want at your table.
However, as an intellectual property it is still WotC's. They have allowed the RPGA to develop canon for the setting. This includes fleshing out past events, geography and organizations as well as advancing the timeline. The canon is much more developed now than it was prior to Living Greyhawk, but it would be a little difficult for a home DM ot compile all of this information and use to for open-ended play.
The OP put it worst: Corporate mentality does not take customer wishes into account. It only takes their pocket books into account.
If a lot of customers really wanted Greyhawk material, WOTC would chase the dollars. They choose instead to produce the products that sell well. That's what corporations try to do. It's human nature; most of us are to an extent rational evaluative maximizers.
This is just anecdotal evidence, but I believe that there was only one or two printings of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, yet I still see copies sitting on the shelves of various FLGS' on a regular basis. The FRCS has gone through several printings and still sells well enough to be listed in the current product catalog. That should tell us something.
And like Sebastian said, enough with the Hasbro and corporate bashing. It's not like we're talking about them failing in a social responsibility; they're not clubbing baby seals or tearing down housing for the poor. They're refusing to lose money in order to pander to the leisure tastes of a very small minority of the world's population.
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The sad point of this post is to bait people into feeling stupid, and there is a great likelihood the original poster will ever come back to answer. I say good riddance, and keep your righteous indignation.
This is ANOTHER lame "Hasbro/WotC/TSR ruined the game" post and ANOTHER tired "the game is ruined by these new rules which I obviously have not played long enough to form an intelligent opinion of, but I will bash anyways."
I've got news for this individual: This is about the oldest, saddest accusation in RPG history. I have been playing for 17 years now. I recall complaints at the end of the 80s about 2nd edition, and about how horrible TSr was without Gary Gygax. I recall the rumors of how WotC was going to turn D&D into Magic:The Gathering. I remember the end of the world 3rd edition stuff. I recall Hasbro being the apocalypse at WotC. All of it is not only the same, but illogical. Most of the arguments amount to "it is broken/no good/corporate/whatever, but I cannot specifically detail a personal instance of having a problem."
Get over yourself.
If you like old D&D, super. Play it. But don't meander into message boards where we dscuss a game we enjoy to just accuse of being corporate pawns.
Yeah, Hasbro has destroyed the game. Whatever. To say that we are causing the demise of the setting is foolish. This is the same crap you hear in punk rock circles, about how you can't buy ANYTHING made by a corporation, because it MUST be bad. How dare we enjoy the works of talented authors employed by the lawful owners of the game. We must have horrible taste!
Whatever, man. Retreat to your garage and leave us to our game. We'll find a CONSTRUCTIVE way to enjoy the game, and Greyhawk too. Take your naysaying elsewhere.
I agree completely (and with Sebastian above) - YAWN!!! This is an old topic in every way. Personally, I don't give a damn about Greyhawk. I think for those people who love GH, I think it would be nice if WotC relinquished their grip on the setting so it can be developed sympathetically. But if it doesn't - meh, no big deal.
As for the anti-capitalist diatribe - the original poster works for a BANK!!! If he lived in vegetarian, self-sufficient commune, maybe I could understand, but a banker? Nuff said.
I've also played D&D for over 20 years. I am a big fan of Greyhawk and would love to see a hardcover book for the campaign setting and a City of Greyhawk book.
I bought the Eberron campaign book and the Sharn city book, and those were very cool. If Greyhawk could get something like that I would be very happy.
However, I don't like Forgotten Realms. I have played in quite a few games set in Forgotten Realms and I just never cared for the flavor of the setting. I realize that comes down to personal taste, but I don't like it. I haven't bought any of the gaming books. I have bought some of the novels, but not in the last 8 to 10 years.
On the whole, I haven't really cared for anything WotC has put out this past year except for the adventures. I bought all of the Eberron adventures and the Red Hand of Doom, but I haven't bought any of their sourcebooks. I expect this to continue. If they put out books I want, I will buy them.
P.S. I don't play in the RPGA. I didn't like the few games I tried (years ago), and now I can't even join (the web site doesn't allow people to join. You have to sign up at conventions and I don't go to conventions where they are at. I don't think there are RPGA groups near where I live either.)
I'd be quite happy with a Greyhawk setting Hardback and a few supplements/adventures a year.
I think some Greyhawk supporters are deterred from posting to this type of thread because of the frequency with which such threads appear and sadly because little ever seems to come of them.
(Respectfully), Give me a break, Mr. Holladay. You have NO data or facts (numbers/statistics) listed to back up your statements. You have nothing to substantiate that Forgotten Realms outsells Greyhawk. You only suppose that because more material for FR is produced it therefore must sell more. It's clear that the marketing department at TSR/WoTC had little clue as to what kind of worthwhile products to produce during the late 80's and early to mid-90's. As a result, your FR-Loving friends produced about 7+ years of material which was almost entirely Forgetable. Neither you nor I can accurately hypothesize what the sales of Greyhawk would be, if it were heavily supported and marketed by WoTC. I think it would outsell FR. All you know is that WoTC thinks that FR is the greater seller and produces product accordingly. I think WoTC's decision is based primarily on the sales of novels for the FR setting.
Furthermore, I think most of us can agree that two or three Greyhawk supplements a year in addition to all the FR productions are probably more marketable and desirable than yet another supplement on Waterdeep, Drizzt, Elminster, Myth Drannor, etc.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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(Respectfully), Give me a break, Mr. Holladay. You have NO data or facts (numbers/statistics) listed to back up your statements. You have nothing to substantiate that Forgotten Realms outsells Greyhawk. You only suppose that because more material for FR is produced it therefore must sell more. It's clear that the marketing department at TSR/WoTC had little clue as to what kind of worthwhile products to produce during the late 80's and early to mid-90's. As a result, your FR-Loving friends produced about 7+ years of material which was almost entirely Forgetable. Neither you nor I can accurately hypothesize what the sales of Greyhawk would be, if it were heavily supported and marketed by WoTC.
I dunno...I think that the products offered probably correlates strongly to products sold/consumer demand. Yes, marketing plays a role, but it is by no means determinative of consumer preference. Coke and Pepsi both launched huge campaigns to support New Coke and Crystal Pepsi, respectively, and those products were tremendous flops. If you want an example closer to home, WotC got behind the Chainmail minatures line pretty aggressively right after the launch of 3e, and that product failed to catch fire.
I don't think it needs to be stated again that WotC is a business and it acts in a way to maximize profits. If they could make more money by switching from FR to Greyhawk, they'd be stupid not to do so. They have data as to which products sell best, and they are not producing Greyhawk material. Now, granted, they have not offered Greyhawk material in some time, and an argument could be made that consumer tastes have shifted as evidenced by the success of Paizo's Greyhawk oriented offerings. Of course, it's also possible that Paizo is meeting the demand for Greyhawk content, and therefore WotC shouldn't bother producing new material.
I think it would outsell FR. All you know is that WoTC thinks that FR is the greater seller and produces product accordingly. I think WoTC's decision is based primarily on the sales of novels for the FR setting.
Furthermore, I think most of us can agree that two or three Greyhawk supplements a year in addition to all the FR productions are probably more marketable and desirable than yet another supplement on Waterdeep, Drizzt, Elminster, Myth Drannor, etc.
I mostly agree with this. For whatever reason, WotC decided that there are two modes of support for their campaign settings: full bore or none at all. It's entirely possible that there is sufficient consumer demand such that one product for a particular setting per year would have good sales. I'd like to think that if WotC released a single book for any out of print campaign setting updating it for 3.5 and (best of all) providing a good index to their pdf products, it would sell well. I'd buy a 3.5 spelljammer book by WotC in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I'm just one guy, so I can't see WotC catering to what I like just because I like it a whole lot.
Sigh . . . and after I defended Greyhawk . . .
While I realize 2nd edition was a rocky road for Greyhawk, from being fully supported, to disappearing, to being supported again, etc., the Forgotten Realms did outsell it.
It wasn't just that TSR supported it or that WOTC supports it now, FR has a fanbase. You can dislike the setting. I get it, not everybody does, but the fact of the matter is, when everything else was tanking, FR products were the only thing that kept TSR's head above water, at least for a while.
That having been said, I'd likely pick up a Greyhawk campaign setting 3.5 hardcover. Would I start buying Gods of Greyhawk, The Free City of Greyhawk, The Marklands, etc in 3.5? Not likely. I think the one shot would be the best indicator of interest, but again, the spectre of TSR and the multiverse of campaign settings looms ever present.
I agree, the multiverse of campaign settings is looming. Even FR only has so much that can be produced before Wizards needs other products to generate dollars. Any bets on which setting they'll go for first?
To tell you the truth, I myself wouldn't mind some campaign settings coming back, breifly, in a formal like the Ghostwalk campaign options, where you might put out a hardcover book...Dark Sun...
Considering all the hard work the folks at athas.org have put into making this product for 3.5 it would be pretty rotten of WotC to step on their toes with a hardcover book. Now if WotC wanted to compensate the people who made this product reasonably and essentially use it as a base for their hardcover then that would be alright in my book but just nullifying their labour of love, after encouraging them, in order to make a quick buck - well thats pretty low, even for a Corp.
If your a fan of Darksun hop on over and see what they have done. I always liked the setting myself but never enough to stop my homebrew. Still I looked it over and its pretty sweet.
But now, I see the Truth. With the stunning insight of a person who has walked into the middle of a conversation and declared both parties to be wrong, you have shown the one true way. 3.5 is a sham. It's like pokemon with dice and minatures, but dumbed down for 8 year olds and exceptionally bright rhemus monkeys.
ROTFL - I'm in tears here...exceptionally bright rhemus monkeys...
That's classic.
You're wrong.
--Erik
I've been keeping an eye on this thread hoping to see something like this!
Now I'll go to sleep and wonder what it means. :)
You're wrong.
--Erik
I've been keeping an eye on this thread hoping to see something like this!
Now I'll go to sleep and wonder what it means. :)
Pleasant dreams...;-)
I'll be wondering this myself...
I was looking around the web a while back and I found a Darksun site that is "Official" updated(3.5) Athas, and while not new printed material persay, is recognized by WotC. Couldn't abunch of industrious GH fans do the same thing?
No, because GH is still used by WotC via RPGA, and seems to be floating in some anomalous nether-region of mist and double-talk, making it hard to determine exactly where it will go.
The future of Greyhawk is eniterly in WotC/Hasbro's hands. What they choose to do with it will determine its future, if any.
Of course, that doesn't mean you can't do what gamers have done for years, and adapt yourself. There is a wealth fo stuff for it, you could whip it up alone. You don't always need a hardcover to run a campaign.
Welcome to the year 2006! Yes, sir, while you were frozen in a block of ice, many things have come to pass. Your friend and mine, TSR (or T$R as the cool kids called it back in the day) is dead and buried, bought out first by the money loving gaming hating bastards at WotC, and then, the evil institution of Hasbro. Dark times have truly fallen, as we cower beneath the tyranny of D&D 3.5 and the Open Gaming License.But now, I see the Truth. With the stunning insight of a person who has walked into the middle of a conversation and declared both parties to be wrong, you have shown the one true way. 3.5 is a sham. It's like pokemon with dice and minatures, but dumbed down for 8 year olds and exceptionally bright rhemus monkeys.
The humanity...
g@! d@&n, wtf is with all the anti-corporate crap going around the board these days? If I read another "WotC only exists to make money, enslave children, and ruin Christmas" post I think my eyes will rupture.
You, sir, are my hero for the day. Thank you.
TK
I'd welcome new Greyhawk books, even if it was only one or two high-quality books per year. I'd particularly like to see collections and updates of all the material scattered across Dragon and Dungeon over the years.
However, I don't particularly want WotC to publish Greyhawk. I'd rather they license it out to a company like, say, Paizo. They are a much cooler company and the people running it seem to understand D&D better. ;)
For me, WotC's argument that new Greyhawk books would take sales from FR and Eberron is wrong. I haven't bought any Eberron books and the last FR book I bought was Monsters of Faerun (which came out years ago).
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I think some Greyhawk supporters are deterred from posting to this type of thread because of the frequency with which such threads appear and sadly because little ever seems to come of them.
There does seem to be a bit of railing against the cruel world in some of these threads. I agree with a previous poster that GH should be licenced for development. I also think it's unlikely at present, but you never know. It's just possible people at WotC/Hasbro read these boards and will take note - but I wouldn't recommend anyone holding their breath.
I may be in the minority - but I don't actually think of GH as a setting. I think of it as generic D&D - the base that the game is built on. Which I modify to suit my tastes. While FR and Eberron (ugh) are designed specifically to be played in - with those specific NPCs and places and variant rules (where appropriate). Because of this view I don't really care about GH material - unless it is good material that can be overlaid into my games and homebrew worlds, like (for example) the various "Complete Books". That is how I look at the FR stuff as well - it is all (to my mind) generic enough to apply to any game world. This is not an insult to FR, rather it is a compliment to its balance and its ability to really capture the spirit of the game.
If GH material were released it should be (IMO) a castle, dungeon, forest, etc. that could be dropped anywhere.
I've been playing and DMing D&D sinse the early 1980s. I've tried many things... Like making my own worlds, then playing with the Gazetteers for a while. But only recently, two months ago, did I take interest in Greyhawk. I bought the living Greyhawk and that little gazetteer (which is practically the same thing). I find it pretty rich in backstory and adventures, not to mention the tons of maps I can get from the internet. I'm now starting the Age of Worms Adventure Path in my next game and want to thank the people of Dungeon for finally getting me interested in the Greyhawk world.
Right now, I'm happy with the attention Dungeon is giving Greyhawk. With all the things I can get over the internet about it, I have more ressources now than I could of ever had ten or fifteen years ago, when it was popular.
If more official stuff comes out in the future, good. If not, oh, well... I guess I'll have to fill in the gaps. Cause, that's what we do, right?
Ultradan