Ian Holladay's page

I agree that WOTC likely realizes that Greyhawk fans looking for something sort of Greyhawkish will purchase FR products instead. This isn't a synergistic benefit, however; that would imply that the decisions made with each line (kill Greyhawk, pump FR) would improve sales as a whole. I'm sure that that isn't the case.

While hardcore fans of the setting will disagree, I believe that both lines satisfy the same niche. The crux of my argument, then, is that FR is the more profitable way to satisfy that niche. WOTC (and Hasbro), like most companies, probably dictates a certain rate of return that their investments must earn before they will lay out cash on product development. FR obviously satisfies their criteria, as they continue to strongly support the line. If they believed that Greyhawk would earn that rate of return, then they would make Greyhawk products alongside their other two campaign settings. Maybe Greyhawk could be profitable; but since WOTC has a limited budget, would Greyhawk be profitable ENOUGH to justify throwing dollars at Greyhawk over FR? I don't think that's the case. I think an investment in an FR sourcebook will beat the same investment in a Greyhawk sourcebook nearly every time.

A good point is made in that the departure from Greyhawk is also a strategic choice. Greyhawk sales would cannibalize FR sales, no doubt. Some consumers (like myself) will buy everything WOTC puts out, but many others have more limited budgets (my wife says I should be one of them). This folds nicely into my point above; if FR is the more profitable line as a whole, then support it and avoid cannibalizing it.

Of course, this entire argument rests upon the supposition that FR is indeed more profitable dollar for dollar than Greyhawk. Hard-core Greyhawk fans will argue, but I trust the marketing gurus at Hasbro who actually have the data in front of them. There's a vocal Greyhawk fanbase out there, but it seems that on these boards at least it's the same dozen or so names carrying the torch into perpetuity. Those dozen or so fans can buy every book released for Greyhawk, but it still doesn't add up to much.

Point taken, Heath. That being said, if the market is not large enough for them to allocate some of their limited resources to, then isn't it functionally the same thing as it not being there at all? I'm assuming that they get a larger return on their investment on Eberron and FR products; that being the case, why not throw all of their money at those lines? It would be irresponsible not to. They can only publish a limited number of high-quality books per year; they're going to choose to publish the ones that will sell the very best. Eberron is also an opportunity to strategically build up a new product line that has room for lots of expansion in the years to come; what most Greyhawk fans seem to be asking for is a rehash of old material, and the growth opportunities for such a line are very limited. The same is true to a lesser extent for FR; they're publishing fewer regional books and more stuff like Power of Faerun and Champions of Valor now. I can't speak for the sales, but after reading them I feel like maybe WOTC is having to stretch for new and different material in the FR.

The OP put it worst: Corporate mentality does not take customer wishes into account. It only takes their pocket books into account.

If a lot of customers really wanted Greyhawk material, WOTC would chase the dollars. They choose instead to produce the products that sell well. That's what corporations try to do. It's human nature; most of us are to an extent rational evaluative maximizers.

This is just anecdotal evidence, but I believe that there was only one or two printings of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, yet I still see copies sitting on the shelves of various FLGS' on a regular basis. The FRCS has gone through several printings and still sells well enough to be listed in the current product catalog. That should tell us something.

And like Sebastian said, enough with the Hasbro and corporate bashing. It's not like we're talking about them failing in a social responsibility; they're not clubbing baby seals or tearing down housing for the poor. They're refusing to lose money in order to pander to the leisure tastes of a very small minority of the world's population.

Excellent point, oldcoast :-)

By the way, with all due respect, if Greyhawk had as large a potential market as the handful on these boards think it does, then TSR or WOTC's marketing teams likely would know about it. TSR was publishing a horde of products for a plethora of campaign settings in its final days, but relatively little Greyhawk; that should probably tell us something.

Greyhawk's biggest problem is that it has little to nothing to differentiate itself from any other generic swords and sorcery setting. I have no real problem with the setting itself, but having read a handful of Greyhawk products, I can find very little that is truly compelling and different about it either. The same can be said for Forgotten Realms, but since that one is more popular I can see why WOTC would choose to publish FR and not Greyhawk.

I think Takasi's argument is much more compelling than he's being given credit for. As he said, why do a Google search for Eberron? There's only a half dozen or so products out there and a couple of video games; it's not hard to find material. On the other hand, it takes some digging to find Greyhawk material. I've done searches to find old Greyhawk material, but never for Eberron. When much of this data was compiled there was even less Eberron material out there.