Let us know what you think!
- rob
Let us know what you think!
- rob
::weep:: It's beautiful man. ::weep::
Something in my eye,
GGG
To be honest...
I'm actually pretty disappointed that the majority of the book is just more races, classes, prestige classes, feats, and monsters. It looks like some very good options were picked to be presented, and I'm sure the conversions are top notch, but it is not what I was expecting.
I guess I'm just drowning in all of these things and was really hoping that Paizo would use this opportuinity to grab the best articles that weren't just more crunch…You know, not the same old stuff that we get with every other supplement on the market…
Chapter 6: Classics and the Appendices are actually the type of things that I was hoping would make up the entire book. Chapter 5: Equipment and Magic Items might have some interesting stuff, depending on what is included and if any type of backstory or histories are included for the items.
So I guess what I'm saying is that between 40 to 60 pages of the book looks like it would be worth it for me. But I guess I’m not the typical player/DM and don’t need tons of extra crunchy options shoved into every book to make it worth buying.
Considering that this book is supposed to represent the best that the magazine has given us over the years, and the amount of good, imagination and game expanding fantasy articles that have appeared in Dragon since the beginning, it is surprising to me that this was the direction taken.
Just my opinion though.
Let us know what you think!
- rob
I'm sold. My order is submitted and confirmed.
Neat. I'm especialy touched by the return of the Shaper of Form.
I'm surprised that the Orbs of Dragonkind article didn't make it in. The article, along with a description of each of the orbs, their abilities and whatnot, would have been cool.
I remember one of our early campaigns that revolved around each of the PCs controlling an orb.
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I'm impressed. I'm also happy to see the diopsid and tesseracts. I'm mildly dissappointed that I didn't notice any of the escaped creatures from the Barrier Peaks (might have been there, I had to look quickly),the variant druids for other environments, or official updates of the sheen. Oh well, maybe in volume 2, maybe in volume 5, I can still hold out hope.
Great work guys,
Dan F.
I already have all of this stuff in 3rd or 3.5 edition rules from past issues of Dragon. I thought you were going waaay back (to the cool stuff of 1st and 2nd edition). Sure, there is some of that, but not enough to warrant my interest.
My point exactly. Why so much 3E material? I'm scanning the ToC and I'm thinking to myself "I have half this material already". I thought Dragon Compendium was supposed to bring back old favorites from BEFORE 3E? I'm sure many people by now have 3E Dragon Magazines and if not they can talk to folks online or order a back issue for stuff they want.
There is quite hefty number of 3E material, which doesn't do me any good. I have all the Dragon Magazines starting with the first issue that began using 3E, to the current one. I really do hope Volume 2+ will have more updated 1E and 2E material. I'm a little disappointed at this.
I guess I'm just drowning in all of these things and was really hoping that Paizo would use this opportuinity to grab the best articles that weren't just more crunch…You know, not the same old stuff that we get with every other supplement on the market…So I guess what I'm saying is that between 40 to 60 pages of the book looks like it would be worth it for me. But I guess I’m not the typical player/DM and don’t need tons of extra crunchy options shoved into every book to make it worth buying.
That would be people like me. ;) My games can never have enough crunch.
Too much crunch. Too much 3rd edition material. I find the latter rather puzzling to be honest.
I'll buy it but I would have chosen different articles to print.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The wealth of material available to us is staggering, which is why we put the "Volume 1" tag on the cover for this one. Rest assured that there are piles and piles of older articles waiting for future volumes, and if this one is a success, you can be sure we'll do more.
Basically, the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff was much, much easier to gather, refine, and lay out than a lot of the older stuff, so it was a natural decision to start there, especially given the speed at which we had to pump this thing out.
There _is_ a lot of older material in the book, including an article from the very first issue of The Strategic Review, so I would urge a careful look once the book comes out for those of you who are worried at there is too much new stuff.
The magic item chapter includes full descriptions of all the items, to answer another question posted above.
I wanted to make this volume more of a mix between the Player's Handbook and DMG because I was certain that such a volume would be much more appealing to the general audience than a simple collection of articles like "An Army Marches on its Stomach" or what have you. Once people have read and enjoyed this volume, I think it's a lot easier to sell them a more esoteric follow-up volume. A huge portion of the people who buy this book will be general fans of the game who are not nearly as plugged into the history of the magazine as those of us who have been subscribing for a decade or more, and I've got to make sure those people are on board before I go completely off the deep end.
The Orbs of Dragonkind article didn't make it because it's currently in a folder with all of the other Greyhawk articles Dragon has ever printed. A compilation of that material, while unlikely in the current environment, would be absolutely glorious.
--Erik
You can say that again! I was actually contemplating buying despite my earlier objections hoping that good article selection could mostly compensate for my dislike of "updated" rules content. That is, if the articles were mainly fluff, the bastardized crunch wouldn't bug me so much.
This looks like just another stack of mile-long stat blocks and redundant prestige classes, though. Gee, that's an uncrowded niche, alright. It's about time a groundbreaking work like this came along and furnished the starving masses with some much-needed new prestige classes. Scarce as diamonds, they are! No room for Nine Hells here! Dancing Hut of Baba What? :(
To be honest...
I'm actually pretty disappointed that the majority of the book is just more races, classes, prestige classes, feats, and monsters. It looks like some very good options were picked to be presented, and I'm sure the conversions are top notch, but it is not what I was expecting.
I guess I'm just drowning in all of these things and was really hoping that Paizo would use this opportuinity to grab the best articles that weren't just more crunch…You know, not the same old stuff that we get with every other supplement on the market…
Chapter 6: Classics and the Appendices are actually the type of things that I was hoping would make up the entire book. Chapter 5: Equipment and Magic Items might have some interesting stuff, depending on what is included and if any type of backstory or histories are included for the items.
So I guess what I'm saying is that between 40 to 60 pages of the book looks like it would be worth it for me. But I guess I’m not the typical player/DM and don’t need tons of extra crunchy options shoved into every book to make it worth buying.
Considering that this book is supposed to represent the best that the magazine has given us over the years, and the amount of good, imagination and game expanding fantasy articles that have appeared in Dragon since the beginning, it is surprising to me that this was the direction taken.
Just my opinion though.
The Orbs of Dragonkind article didn't make it because it's currently in a folder with all of the other Greyhawk articles Dragon has ever printed. A compilation of that material, while unlikely in the current environment, would be absolutely glorious.
Absolutely! That one article is quite possibly my favorite out of the history of Dragon, and definately my favorite of the pre-3rd ed. articles. But at least now I understand why it didn't make it into this book.
My hope remains kindled that we'll see it make the light of day with other Greyhawk materials.
Once people have read and enjoyed this volume, I think it's a lot easier to sell them a more esoteric follow-up volume.
I hope so. But I don't see why the people interested in the esoteric stuff are going to be inclined to purchase a volumn two if there's so little for them here. I don't know many people who buy the second film in a trilogy on DVD if they didn't enjoy the first. And people who did enjoy the first film usually don't appreciate it when the second is radically-different in tone.
It's about time a groundbreaking work like this came along and furnished the starving masses with some much-needed new prestige classes. Scarce as diamonds, they are! No room for Nine Hells here! Dancing Hut of Baba What? :(
Yes, more prestige class. Just perfect my campaign. I love variety in my games and I want tons of it. Always surprises, always more options for my players, and always more options for me when I make NPCs and monsters.
Don't hate on the crunch people. Not everyone is so professional and gets together in teams everyday, getting paid for it, to come up with new crunch material to bring to the game that's balanced enough to play. Fluff is way easier to create, since all you need is a---*gasp* oh no...a freaking IMAGINATION!
*gasps* Oh my...does such a thing exist in a D&D game anymore? I sure hope so...
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I'm impressed. I'm also happy to see the diopsid and tesseracts. I'm mildly dissappointed that I didn't notice any of the escaped creatures from the Barrier Peaks (might have been there, I had to look quickly),the variant druids for other environments, or official updates of the sheen. Oh well, maybe in volume 2, maybe in volume 5, I can still hold out hope.
Great work guys,
Dan F.
Okay, I had the time to look over it more carefully, and saw at least two Barrier Peaks critters. I feel even happier now.
Dan F.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I hope so. But I don't see why the people interested in the esoteric stuff are going to be inclined to purchase a volumn two if there's so little for them here.
Well, they'll have to look at it and decide if they want it, I guess. Your comment is sort of like saying "Well, Deities & Demigods sucked, so why would anyone want to buy the Manual of the Planes?"
If it's cool, people will buy it.
--Erik
Bad hits and good misses, instant adventures, 7 sentence NPC and solo dungeons!!! I'm SOLD!! Wait, I already pre-ordered...
I hope so. But I don't see why the people interested in the esoteric stuff are going to be inclined to purchase a volumn two if there's so little for them here.Well, they'll have to look at it and decide if they want it, I guess. Your comment is sort of like saying "Well, Deities & Demigods sucked, so why would anyone want to buy the Manual of the Planes?"
If it's cool, people will buy it.
--Erik
Well, it is "sort of" like that, but for that analogy to be entirely accurate the MoP would have to be called "Dieties & Demigods: Volumn Two."
Yes, more prestige class. Just perfect my campaign. I love variety in my games and I want tons of it. Always surprises, always more options for my players, and always more options for me when I make NPCs and monsters.
Don't hate on the crunch people. Not everyone is so professional and gets together in teams everyday, getting paid for it, to come up with new crunch material to bring to the game that's balanced enough to play. Fluff is way easier to create, since all you need is a---*gasp* oh no...a freaking IMAGINATION!
*gasps* Oh my...does such a thing exist in a D&D game anymore? I sure hope so...
I'll try not to be offended by the insinuation that you've made in this post. ;)
Just because some people feel that their games will not be well served by even more 'crunchy' options, in no way means that they have no imagination. It just means that there is a segment of the gaming population that feels that they already have all of the 'crunch' that they could ever use in a lifetime of gameing.
I agree that creating fluff takes imagination, but I hesitate to think that it is any easier than making another prestige class or feat. Coming up with entire cultures and situations to create a believable and fun campaign world is a daunting task at best, and those that take inspiration from 'fluffy' articles and sourcebooks are only making their lives that much easier. Just like your gaming life is made easier by having more races, classes, and feats made for you when you could have easily just used your imagination.
As for creating balanced options, if a new prestige class or other rule works in your game and isn't going to be published for the rest of the world to see, what is the worry?
As far as imagination is concerned, I see no real difference between creating 'fluff' and creating 'crunch'.
Well, it is "sort of" like that, but for that analogy to be entirely accurate the MoP would have to be called "Dieties & Demigods: Volumn Two."I hope so. But I don't see why the people interested in the esoteric stuff are going to be inclined to purchase a volumn two if there's so little for them here.Well, they'll have to look at it and decide if they want it, I guess. Your comment is sort of like saying "Well, Deities & Demigods sucked, so why would anyone want to buy the Manual of the Planes?"
If it's cool, people will buy it.
--Erik
If we're arguing about the accuracy of an analogy, then the analogy of buying a DVD of a movie sequel based in the quality of its predecessor is inaccurate for at least two reasons.
1) Movie sequels usually rely on information presented in the first movie. Volume II would not rely on the content presented in Volume I.
2) The quality of an original movie is not necessarily a predictor of the quality of a sequel. Compare Raiders of the Lost Ark with Temple of Doom. Compare Star Trek with Star Trek II. Compare Star Wars: Episode V with Episode I.
I knew that, as the prestige classes are new to 3.x, there weren't likely to be any that were very old. Some of the old base classes from dragons way back would instead make intruiging prestige classes for future volumes.
I thought it would be more interesting... Especially for the prestige classes. ADD was born in the 70S', prestige classes were introduced 5 years ago. It didn't think it would appear in such a book, that supposed to cover the whole ADD history.
Erik,
If you have a folder of just Greyhawk stuff, is that because you intend to have a Volume of just Greyhawk stuff OR is something very nefarious (glorious) occuring with Greyhawk?
Thanks,
Erik,
If you have a folder of just Greyhawk stuff, is that because you intend to have a Volume of just Greyhawk stuff OR is something very nefarious (glorious) occuring with Greyhawk?
Thanks,
Erik's post in the thread below (page 2), might answer your question.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dragon/compendium/previews|
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I noticed the Phantom Flyer in there. Wasn't that the thing in the Return to the Tomb of Horrors boxed set; the thing that transported the PCs from Moil to Aceracks fortress on the on the negative energy plane? I think it has two big tentacles in place of teeth. Cool...
I haven't ordered my copy yet, but I will soon after I move into my new house.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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If you have a folder of just Greyhawk stuff, is that because you intend to have a Volume of just Greyhawk stuff OR is something very nefarious (glorious) occuring with Greyhawk?
I have about 20 folders filled with "like" material that might form the basis of their own volumes. Off the top of my head, these include Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Planar Stuff, The Armchair Historian, Spells, Monsters, Magic Items, Classes, Races, Oriental Adventures, and a half-dozen more. My favorite folder includes staff interviews, product solicitations, and ads from throughout the history of D&D.
Any of these things could make their way into a compendium. I would _love_ to do a Greyhawk compilation, and have all the material ready for such a thing, but Wizards is unlikely to approve such a thing at present.
Still, if there's anything I've learned during my short association with this hobby is that strategy changes about once every three or four years.
So you never know.
--Erik
I noticed the Phantom Flyer in there. Wasn't that the thing in the Return to the Tomb of Horrors boxed set; the thing that transported the PCs from Moil to Aceracks fortress on the on the negative energy plane? I think it has two big tentacles in place of teeth. Cool...
it's possible... off the top of my head, it is a golem variant, and also appeared in Monstrous Compendium annual 2 or 3.
I am more than willing to support this first volume, partly because it's a great compilation, but partly to ensure the appearance of a Greyhawk volume.
Same here
Dancing Hut of Baba What? :(
There was an article about Baba Yaga's hut? What did it detail? (And why wasn't it in the Dragon Comendium?!)
Yes, more prestige class. Just perfect my campaign. I love variety in my games and I want tons of it. Always surprises, always more options for my players, and always more options for me when I make NPCs and monsters.Don't hate on the crunch people. Not everyone is so professional and gets together in teams everyday, getting paid for it, to come up with new crunch material to bring to the game that's balanced enough to play. Fluff is way easier to create, since all you need is a---*gasp* oh no...a freaking IMAGINATION!
*gasps* Oh my...does such a thing exist in a D&D game anymore? I sure hope so...
IMO the imagination of the player is being crunched by power-gaming options upon options -- new feats, skills, spells, and prestige class galore.
I disagree with your assessment of imagination vs crunch. Of course, this is subjective, but I believe that creating "crunch" materials, while tedious, is not nearly as challenging as setting up a campaign with characters that breathe verisimilitude. I am tickled pink by the Shackled City HC, but this Dragon compendium I will not pre-order. I'm not saying I won't buy it; rather, I'll check it out at my FLGS and then decide. I'm just not excited about more character options. I've got volumes of them that I'll never use, nor will my players.
Give me the Greyhwak Compendium!
Hm . . . I can't speak to weather it appeals to anyone or not based on the articles involved. The races don't to much for me, but on the whole, I am interested. There is a fair amount that was 1st or 2nd Edition that has been converted in it, just looking at the table of contents. I guess its like any best of, be it music, movies, TV, etc. It tends to be biased a bit more in favor of the present becuase its fresh in our minds.
Two points though. This particular compendium is VOLUME ONE. Its not meant to cover everything, its meant to whet your appetite and make you want to get Volume Two on down. Just like the magazine, not everything may appeal to you, and hey, you may or may not buy this or that Volume, especially depending on themes and the like.
The second point is that having these articles consolidated, indexed, and hardbound does make these articles easier to use in a game setting. The span of Dragon Magazines that the "recent" articles in the Compendium entails is prohibitive to bring to the table, becuase they slide around, get damaged, and it takes forever to remember what issue this or that was in. A hardcover or two is much easier to deal with at the gaming table.
That having been said, I wouldn't expect anyone to pick up a Volume that has articles that don't do much for them. Just don't write off the whole series if the first one doesn't grab you.
Well, since I started reading Dragon only recently, I've only got issues 323 and so on.
So I'm basically sold since I've not seen any of this.
However, speaking of vol. 2, is there any information on that? (Like when it's coming out at least...or planned to come out...or if it will start being worked on soon...or if there are even notes written down on scratch paper about it...or sticky notes...or those tiny little pieces of paper that are wrapped around gum...)
Edit: Will this book be sold in game stores, or only online?
While all in all I suppose this being the first publication of this sort for Dragon magazine I feel I must say that I do think they could have done much better on their first go around at this. And to hear Eric say he has loads of paperwork on his desk and the expendiency that this was put out at, kind of led me to believe that a lot of this was quick filler to appease a boss above him in making a dead-line and not actually putting together a top-notch book. Not saying that Eric didn't put hours of work into it. Just didn't feel like he put his soul into it like I normally see in his writings.
And while there might be piles and piles of paperwork it seems to me the easist thing to appease the mobs that are Dragon's fans would be to go back to the Dragon magazine's that you summed up the best articles of the year/decade/anniversary and then compile those articles into the one book that you want to have the single best first impression on. But I guess that's just me sitting on the other side of the fense and not seeing what goes on backstage at Dragon.
So Eric here's to the work you do and to be proud of. Its just a shame that good work like yours could be turned over to quanity over quality just to push a book out by a dead-line.
-Jason Dooley
Edit: Will this book be sold in game stores, or only online?
I was able to pre-order this from my FLGS - it's being released through normal distribution channels, it seems.
...it's being released through normal distribution channels, it seems.
Correct!
Hum.
For me too several classes and races were "seen it, seen it, seen it", that is, published during 3 last years of Dragon...there were some interesting-sounding articles there but I won't make a decision of buying it until I have leafed it through.
I know those old Princess Ark articles were collected a long time ago, but Known World Grimoire stuff hasn't AFAIK. And those are definitely among the better "crunch" stuff Dragon has ever published.
Basically, the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff was much, much easier to gather, refine, and lay out than a lot of the older stuff, so it was a natural decision to start there, especially given the speed at which we had to pump this thing out.
Uhhh, is anyone else sickened by this statement besides me? I love the mag and have been reading it since I could read, but, I translate this statement as saying: "We were too lazy to convert the old material because we were in such a rush to take your money"
It's that kind of purely captialistic view that keeps some people from buying books from WotC, don't go that same way too, or you will lose subscribers just like they lost customers.....
Basically, the 3.0 and 3.5 stuff was much, much easier to gather, refine, and lay out than a lot of the older stuff, so it was a natural decision to start there, especially given the speed at which we had to pump this thing out.
Uhhh, is anyone else sickened by this statement besides me? I love the mag and have been reading it since I could read, but, I translate this statement as saying: "We were too lazy to convert the old material because we were in such a rush to take your money"
It's that kind of purely captialistic view that keeps some people from buying books from WotC, don't go that same way too, or you will lose subscribers just like they lost customers.....
Ooh, harsh!
(Though I must admit you're correct.)
yep, harsh criticism indeed.