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I think the name "BARBARIAN" unfairly limits the barbarian class from a role playing perspective. I mean... by calling it barbarian you almost have to make it some uncivilized wild man, savage, crazy person or otherwise sterio type. Which Barbarian as a class name you get the impression that every one in a barbarian village has to have levels of barbarian class. you also get the impression that no one in the city guard could ever draw on his rage in battle.
So I am looking for new names for the class.
Berzerker fits the class much better than barbarian.
RAGER I like the most. anyone can be a Rager from a savage tribes man to an otherwise calm and collected and educated noble woman who actively dips into her primal self to over come her enemies.
are there any other names that would fit the base class that uses rage powers regardless of the personality or status of the character?
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I don't think it necessarily needs to be changed. You can play a fighter as a Gladiator, a Soldier, an Infantryman, an Archer, a Pikeman, any number of different archetypes of fighting man. A barbarian is much the same- the name is really not all that important, in the scheme of things. It's not like your character would even necessarily refer to themselves as such!
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My Tian Barbarian would like to point out that he isn't a barbarian, all you uncivilized westerners are the real barbarians.
true seranov. but FIGHTER is an open ended name, like Magic User. To use your example the class is called fighter... but fighter can be any range of characters. If the class was called gladiator people would not be FORCED to make a character whos story line involves being a slave fighting for his life in the arena, but it would be a little harder to envision a mild manned member of the town guard. when you describe a town and write stats for the people in it giving every member of the militia levels of gladiator would be a little strange.
by the same token once you call the class BARBARIAN it kind of lends itself to a certain stereotype (valid or not) and becomes harder to envision anything else. can it be done? yes of course. I am free to create a character that is an educated and respected noble who looses his cookies in battle... but its a little hard to reconcile that with the 5 levels of BARBARIAN class. And when I make a barbarian village in the mountains... i feel a certain obligation to give them levels of barbarian even though thats a bit ridiculous.
other names however could be a bit more open ended.
I like berzerker... i just wonder if that gives the impression the character has to lose his mind when he rages.
Rager does not sound as good... but it seems more open ended.
I am just wondering if there are better options out there as I plan to use the best name as a house rule change for the class in my games.
Battlerager might be better since it indicates that they only flip shit when they're fighting.
Though personally I think Barbarian works just fine.
I see barbarians the same way i see monks, oracles, clerics and rogues (among others). They're just names to define the class mechanically, but not necessarily what the character would be classified as in-game.
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@Threeshades: I agree, but most people don't see it that way.
People get weirded out when I say I'm building a rogue, and I don't take a single level in rogue - instead using ranger or bard - possibly plus prestige classes. Likewise when I make a 'monk' and it's all ranger, paladin, or fighter, built for unarmed combat (or monk weapons) and mobility.
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true seranov. but FIGHTER is an open ended name, like Magic User. To use your example the class is called fighter... but fighter can be any range of characters. If the class was called gladiator people would not be FORCED to make a character whos story line involves being a slave fighting for his life in the arena, but it would be a little harder to envision a mild manned member of the town guard. when you describe a town and write stats for the people in it giving every member of the militia levels of gladiator would be a little strange.
by the same token once you call the class BARBARIAN it kind of lends itself to a certain stereotype (valid or not) and becomes harder to envision anything else. can it be done? yes of course. I am free to create a character that is an educated and respected noble who looses his cookies in battle... but its a little hard to reconcile that with the 5 levels of BARBARIAN class. And when I make a barbarian village in the mountains... i feel a certain obligation to give them levels of barbarian even though thats a bit ridiculous.
other names however could be a bit more open ended.
Except no one is forcing you to do any of those things.
Maybe you are forcing yourself to do those things, but I could just as easily play a a Barbarian as a plucky fellow who willingly gives up his self-control in combat to become a whirling dervish of steel and anger as the traditional ROAR BARBARIAN SMASH. The name is only skin deep, and is simply a mechanical name for a certain archetype of fantasy adventurer. You could change the name of the class, but it would still be THE EXACT SAME THING! Why bother?
No, really? Who is MAKING you do anything with your characters or NPCs? A whole barbarian tribe might not have a single actual Barbarian in it, instead having many Fighters, Rangers and Rogues. There's literally nothing here except your own bias.
I don't see how calling the class anything different will help. Besides, we might end up with something contrived. I like barbarian.
On a somewhat related note, I completely endorse fighting-man, magic-user, and thief becoming fighter, (mage then) wizard, and rogue.
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If I ever had to change the name of the Barbarian, I'd change it to Berserker.
theif > Rogue is a perfect example its not that theif FORCED you do do anything... but rogue is less suggestive.
as an extention
Monk > martial artist might be an idea.
on a side note: Im just juggling ideas, not starting a petition.
I think the point of class names, particularly in D&D, which assumes specialized class/players roles, is to give a general indication of what style of play the class is suited for. It's not a general proscription against other builds or styles of play, but it does help clarify for new players what they can expect.
"Barbarian" helps clarify the distinction between a class that favors wild, brutal offense at the expense of defense and a class like "Paladin" that favors a more chivalric plate-and-shield method with a dash of jousting thrown in.
Class names are purely meta-game artifacts. Build your character however you like and simply ignore the class name. It's literally meaningless in game terms. It's just a classification.
In some cases class names correspond to real world cultural designations, so it makes sense for a wizard to think of themselves as a "wizard" but there is no reason whatsoever that a "witch" could not think of himself/herself as a "wizard" if the player wants to role play it that way.
My witch, for example, doesn't think of himself as a "witch". If anything he thinks of himself as a mage. He does magic stuff. That's all.
It's not as if characters roam around the world with nametags that say "Hi, my name is Bob and I am a Barbarian".
Meanrock Destructotron.
I'm going to go roll one up right now.
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understood.
once again i know that people are free to play as they chose. but there is a reason that the classes are not called. magic using class, sword using class and holy class.
the names are relevant. they give you one of the basic outlines of the character.
if your a super experienced player its very easy to divorce yourself from the class name and the character story line... but newer players and many other experienced players find it hard to see the BARBARIAN as anything but a muscle bound axe wielding idiot. simply calling the class Rage User or something opens up that imaginative space much more easily.
once again I am NOT saying that the game does not allow imaginative barbarians... I am saying a new name would help facilitate more imaginative characters.
Honestly the class should be called Berserker after the Norse Super-Men it was inspired by.
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I like "berserker".
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Now, see, this could all be solved if Paizo flavored their iconic barbarian as something completely different than the stereotypical muscle-bound bearded norse hulk man with huge axe and haunch of smoked meat.
Here's my idea. Make the iconic barbarian a woman. Make her somewhat slender and athletic. Give her, say, a really big sword instead of an axe. Make her witty, sarcastic and a bit self-centered.
Name her something un-norse-like...let's see...how about Amiri?
Yeah, I like that.
Now, if only they'd do that.
really?
how many players (new ones in particular) have ever built barbarians that were NOT high str, low int, uncivilized madmen in one way or another?
I mean its in the core manual, sure it CAN be worked around... just like a class called thief can be worked around... but Rogue is more open, does not require a work around and fits all of the options of the class more than thief does.
just because its not an issue that breaks the game does not mean that its not an issue that can be examined.
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Plenty, I imagine. And even if they didn't, why should that be a big deal? For the record, most people who do play that type of character, generally play that type of Barbarian, get this, because they want to.
Also,
Now, see, this could all be solved if Paizo flavored their iconic barbarian as something completely different than the stereotypical muscle-bound bearded norse hulk man with huge axe and haunch of smoked meat.Here's my idea. Make the iconic barbarian a woman. Make her somewhat slender and athletic. Give her, say, a really big sword instead of an axe. Make her witty, sarcastic and a bit self-centered.
Name her something un-norse-like...let's see...how about Amiri?
Yeah, I like that.
Now, if only they'd do that.
Get a load of this guy, that'd never happen!
I'm in the Berserker camp as well, if just because I kept calling the Barbarian a Berserker when I first started playing Pathfinder (I play a lot of Final Fantasy, too)...
Ill go with berserker. I like rager because its the most neutral but Berserker just sounds cooler and gets the job done thematically. also rager sounds too much like ranger.
thanks all.
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Barbarian is a Medieval term for one who acts on emotion.
I prefer the Berserker.
Barbarian is a Medieval term for one who acts on emotion.
I prefer the Berserker.
actually Barbarian is a roman term for any less developed people who dont speak roman
(because "Bar bar barbar" was a roman method of mocking forgein languages that weren't Greek, Latin or Egyptian.)
it has of course morphed a lot.
Barbarian is a Medieval term for one who acts on emotion.
I prefer the Berserker.
actually Barbarian is a roman term for any less developed people who dont speak roman
(because "Bar bar barbar" was a roman method of mocking forgein languages that weren't Greek, Latin or Egyptian.)
it has of course morphed a lot.
I was stating its usage during Medieval times which most of D&D lore is drawn from.
I prefer the name "berserker" for the class, but we're not going to change it at this point in the game.
I like barbarian. But then again, I do not play with anyone that is "new" to roleplaying. I mean it is just a label. The fluff is just to inspire ideas. Even beserker could be interpreted as a limiter of ideas for the class. If I call upon my ancestor's spirits to lend me strength in battle, perhans I do not want to call it "beserking" or "raging" but channeling instead.
If one is feeling limited by the name, I think that is not a problem with the name.
Greg
I have a Barbarian who only Rages in times of necessity. This is because he "sees red" and loses control and just attacks anyone who he doesn't trust.
When he isn't raging he is a Cultured Gentleman. When Raging he is a screaming monstrosity.
This under the Medieval terms is a Barbarian.
Hellenistic cultures used the term to describe people who weren't of their culture.
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how many players (new ones in particular) have ever built barbarians that were NOT high str, low int, uncivilized madmen in one way or another?
My barbarian (see avatar) has a 12 intelligence, and a better dexterity than constitution. He was raised somewhat feral and becomes more learned and civilized as the campaign progresses (its kingmaker). I read some of Robert Howard's Conan stories just before the campaign began.
But, yes... Strength is his high ability score.
The Barbarian I mentioned previously has Midline DEX/STR/CON in that order. Fairly good INT/WIS and a CHA of 11(had a single point that couldn't go anywhere else). This is with a 20 PBA.
I prefer the name "berserker" for the class, but we're not going to change it at this point in the game.
Who was the one who said the class would be named Barbarian?
Berserker is a worse name than barbarian. Even if you accept the notion that naming it barbarian prejudices people to think about raging savages, the class can at least be used for all kinds of stereotypical raging savages, be it viking, mongol or apache. Berserker would pidgeonhole the class even more, making people think only about vikings. You go from 'a savage' to 'a nordic savage'.
Carried over from 3.5, which followed from 3.0, which took the name from a very different martial class in AD&D, first appearing in Dragon, then Unearthed Arcana. The original was more Conan like, less Berserker.I prefer the name "berserker" for the class, but we're not going to change it at this point in the game.Who was the one who said the class would be named Barbarian?
Had a feeling that was the answer.
Trance Warrior! this could open it up to other flavors besides rage infused combat, such as other combat "Trances" like Zen Archery, Drunken Boxing, Serenity infused dances, Adrenaline based stunts, supernatural transformations such as melee based magical girls, going Super Saiyan, an Arrancar's Ressureccion, or stuff like Aang from the last Airbender when he activates his avatar state, or a variety of similar flavors.
Transformist! could work too.
Lumiere... Talk about jumping Anime Genres...
I made a dandy barbarian once. He cared about his appearance, perfume and his dark beard, but this one sure had a mouth on him, and a savage temper as much as he wore silks and puffy outfits.
Berserker is a worse name than barbarian. Even if you accept the notion that naming it barbarian prejudices people to think about raging savages, the class can at least be used for all kinds of stereotypical raging savages, be it viking, mongol or apache. Berserker would pidgeonhole the class even more, making people think only about vikings. You go from 'a savage' to 'a nordic savage'.
I'm not sure the barbarian fits with the Mongol actually. Yeah they conquered and raided, but they were more into their horse archery. I rage and angrily shoot at the enemy while controlling my horse and bow and keeping a safe distance doesn't quite fit with the barbarian as a battlerager. :)
Mongol horse archers seem more fighters to me. Course they did have the melee cav and foot. You could make them barbs, perhaps they only use that rage when they are out of arrows and have to go mace, sword or lance? Cunning barbarians indeed.
I have a Barbarian who only Rages in times of necessity. This is because he "sees red" and loses control and just attacks anyone who he doesn't trust.
When he isn't raging he is a Cultured Gentleman. When Raging he is a screaming monstrosity.
This under the Medieval terms is a Barbarian.
Hellenistic cultures used the term to describe people who weren't of their culture.
A player I ran a game for, played their character a lot like that. This one was cautious, not always eager for combat, but when it came down to it, the rage would be sparingly and carefully used.
The Hellenistic mockery of nonsensical speech is there in the record, but, there was also a great deal of praise for the virtues of foreign peoples, sometimes as a means to criticise what was lacking in other Greeks. They didn't all view foreigners as barbarians, and the Greek trade routes meant that those barbar tongues, also got learned by some.